Winter Olympics

[cabanafrau]

I call BS - nobody with those abs has had multiple babies!

Seriously? Obviously they're not only forced to keep their relationship and babies secret, she's forced to maintain abs of steel.

It's all right there if you pay attention.

 

[RangerPooh]

Ice Dance mostly trains in Michigan because that's where the most and best coaches are, there and Montreal.
Some singles train there too, but most are in California or Colorado. Pairs are in Colorado, Texas, or Florida. There are also other major training centers across the US but those are the main ones.

There was a story on the news (Today or CBS??) a few weeks ago highlighting a speed skating training program in Florida where teens are training on roller blades at a local roller rink and outdoor track most of the year. They then make the conversion to ice have been fairly successful in qualifying for the Olympic team.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Ice Dance mostly trains in Michigan because that's where the most and best coaches are, there and Montreal.

Some singles train there too, but most are in California or Colorado. Pairs are in Colorado, Texas, or Florida. There are also other major training centers across the US but those are the main ones.

Yeah. I think I was going for the fact that the U.S. seems to be the place to train at least for certain disciplines.

 

[Adelle Dazeem]

So disappointed with the ice dancing. Can't stand Virtue and Moir - barf. I don't love G&G either, but was really hoping they would win. I felt so bad for Gabriella after the short dance. How horrifying that was for her.

 

[cabanafrau]

So disappointed with the ice dancing. Can't stand Virtue and Moir - barf. I don't love G&G either, but was really hoping they would win. I felt so bad for Gabriella after the short dance. How horrifying that was for her.

Do you mean the results, or the overall performances in ice dance in general?

Personally I would have given the gold to the French pair. I found their free skate to be quite complex and much more genuine, but I wouldn't say that Virtue and Moir's win was undeserved. I definitely didn't see it as the only possible outcome/the inevitable runaway victory it's now being mythologized as. I'm not quite sure the Shibutani's marks matched the performances they put out there either. For me their short dance was incredibly underscored and the free dance was also short on the marks. I wouldn't say they deserved a higher medal necessarily, but their points should have definitely been higher than they were.

I thought another Canadian team was quite overlooked, Kaitlyn Weaver and Andrew Poje could have placed higher in my book. I also found the couple from Spain quite intriguing. In a lot of ways it points to figure skating's age old problem -- judging that's not quite as sharp or unbiased as it ought to be.

 

[Adelle Dazeem]

Do you mean the results, or the overall performances in ice dance in general?

Personally I would have given the gold to the French pair. I found their free skate to be quite complex and much more genuine, but I wouldn't say that Virtue and Moir's win was undeserved. I definitely didn't see it as the only possible outcome/the inevitable runaway victory it's now being mythologized as. I'm not quite sure the Shibutani's marks matched the performances they put out there either. For me their short dance was incredibly underscored and the free dance was also short on the marks. I wouldn't say they deserved a higher medal necessarily, but their points should have definitely been higher than they were.

I thought another Canadian team was quite overlooked, Kaitlyn Weaver and Andrew Poje could have placed higher in my book. I also found the couple from Spain quite intriguing. In a lot of ways it points to figure skating's age old problem -- judging that's not quite as sharp or unbiased as it ought to be.

I wasn't happy with the results. I enjoyed the skating. I admit that I absolutely HATED Virtue and Moir's short dance. The skating was fine, but the music and costuming were awful in my opinion. I loved the Shibs (even though I am over their Coldplay music), enjoyed Hubble and Donahue, had my heart broken by the fall of Chock and Bates. I liked the Spanish team a lot. Loved their classic music and performance!

 

[cabanafrau]

I wasn't happy with the results. I enjoyed the skating. I admit that I absolutely HATED Virtue and Moir's short dance. The skating was fine, but the music and costuming were awful in my opinion. I loved the Shibs (even though I am over their Coldplay music), enjoyed Hubble and Donahue, had my heart broken by the fall of Chock and Bates. I liked the Spanish team a lot. Loved their classic music and performance!

I'm not feeling either of Virtue and Moir's programs the way most everyone else seems to. If I'm being honest I find their style rather one-note.

I thought the Shibutani's short program was seriously overlooked, all kinds of sparkling energy. I truly think Coldplay was a safe spot they found where they maybe felt they could make something out of the music while avoiding the minefield that waits for them in so many other selections being siblings and wanting to avoid anything hinting of romance.

I find the other two American teams skilled but bland. They both suffer from something that bugs me but I don't have the skillset to understand, their knees don't have the right bend or something and they don't flow into the ice the way I like to see. I only know when I see it or when I don't, I don't have any training to understand it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Do you mean the results, or the overall performances in ice dance in general?

Personally I would have given the gold to the French pair. I found their free skate to be quite complex and much more genuine, but I wouldn't say that Virtue and Moir's win was undeserved. I definitely didn't see it as the only possible outcome/the inevitable runaway victory it's now being mythologized as. I'm not quite sure the Shibutani's marks matched the performances they put out there either. For me their short dance was incredibly underscored and the free dance was also short on the marks. I wouldn't say they deserved a higher medal necessarily, but their points should have definitely been higher than they were.

I thought another Canadian team was quite overlooked, Kaitlyn Weaver and Andrew Poje could have placed higher in my book. I also found the couple from Spain quite intriguing. In a lot of ways it points to figure skating's age old problem -- judging that's not quite as sharp or unbiased as it ought to be.

I'm not feeling either of Virtue and Moir's programs the way most everyone else seems to. If I'm being honest I find their style rather one-note.

I thought the Shibutani's short program was seriously overlooked, all kinds of sparkling energy. I truly think Coldplay was a safe spot they found where they maybe felt they could make something out of the music while avoiding the minefield that waits for them in so many other selections being siblings and wanting to avoid anything hinting of romance.

I find the other two American teams skilled but bland. They both suffer from something that bugs me but I don't have the skillset to understand, their knees don't have the right bend or something and they don't flow into the ice the way I like to see. I only know when I see it or when I don't, I don't have any training to understand it.

I wasn't happy with the results. I enjoyed the skating. I admit that I absolutely HATED Virtue and Moir's short dance. The skating was fine, but the music and costuming were awful in my opinion. I loved the Shibs (even though I am over their Coldplay music), enjoyed Hubble and Donahue, had my heart broken by the fall of Chock and Bates. I liked the Spanish team a lot. Loved their classic music and performance!

__________________________
I largely agree with your comments. I actually just finished watching the recording and I was a bit confused at the huge uproar from the crowd when Virtue and Moir did a move--I was thinking "what's the big deal".

I felt terrible for the french pair especially when you saw their disappointment when they were knocked to 2nd place.

I have def. wondered if judging is influenced by other factors. Skill is a big thing for sure but I also want connection and flow with the music.

I have enjoyed seeing all the costumes but agree some were just not all that good or even downright distracting or didn't match the music IMO.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I have an idea for the most whacked Olympic event in history.

1. Swimming 200m Free
2. one touche epee If a tie match occurs with no touche in 1 minute, it's a loss for both of them.
3. Equestrian show jumping
4. A combined event of pistol shooting and running. 3200 meters of total running which counts as two events.

Oh wait They already have it. The Modern Pentathlon.

 

[cabanafrau]

__________________________
I largely agree with your comments. I actually just finished watching the recording and I was a bit confused at the huge uproar from the crowd when Virtue and Moir did a move--I was thinking "what's the big deal".

I felt terrible for the french pair especially when you saw their disappointment when they were knocked to 2nd place.

I have def. wondered if judging is influenced by other factors. Skill is a big thing for sure but I also want connection and flow with the music.

I have enjoyed seeing all the costumes but agree some were just not all that good or even downright distracting or didn't match the music IMO.

It seems to me one of the things I didn't like about judging when I watched skating years back is still a problem -- you have to have a resume or reputation to be considered for the top two spots, period. For me that's a problem. I want to watch a competition where any of the competitors who steps out there and skates two performances absolutely lights out should be able to take the top of the podium. Barring absolute and total disaster I don't think anyone else but the Canadian and French pairs were even in consideration for gold and silver before the competition even started two days ago. Based on the scoring in the team event I suspect that the American ladies and all of the other competitors not only need to cede gold and silver to the OAR, but be prepared to accept that the bronze is to be bestowed on either Carolina Kostner as a reward for her incredible longevity or the Canadian champion who is likely retiring after the games.

 

[ashley0139]

This is an interesting conversation, because I believe casual fans think the same things about gymnastics, that it's the same people winning and that you have to be from a certain country or have a certain name to win. But in ice skating, just like gymnastics, there are things that the general public doesn't see that the judges do. In gymnastics (which I know much more about), there is difficulty level, composition requirements, skill connections, etc. It's not all about execution and artistry. So a viewer will be mad when a gymnast makes a visual mistake and wins over someone who doesn't, even though it was the right thing.

As a very casual skating fan, I know that there are many MANY things I don't know and that there are many things that play into scores that I don't take into account. Of course there will always be subjectivity in a sport like this and people will argue. Just like people will argue about how some countries get better referee calls in soccer or hockey. I just think we have to take into account that there are things that someone who is not an ice dance expert won't see.

But from a casual fan's perspective, Virtue and Moir's performance was the only one my eyes were glued to the entire time.

 

[declansdad]

Both Virtue/Moir and Papadakis/Cizeron were the class of the field. The both skated very different routines and both did a fantastic job, the other teams all made small mistakes and that was the difference.

Now I do have a bias but I certainly enjoyed both skated by Virtue and Moir much more than the French pair. They certainly were more emotional and fun to watch. The French pair's free skate was much more old school and in my opinion, that's why they finished second. The scoring system takes away a lot of the saving room for the top skaters that the old system certainly had.

 

[cabanafrau]

This is an interesting conversation, because I believe casual fans think the same things about gymnastics, that it's the same people winning and that you have to be from a certain country or have a certain name to win. But in ice skating, just like gymnastics, there are things that the general public doesn't see that the judges do. In gymnastics (which I know much more about), there is difficulty level, composition requirements, skill connections, etc. It's not all about execution and artistry. So a viewer will be mad when a gymnast makes a visual mistake and wins over someone who doesn't, even though it was the right thing.

As a very casual skating fan, I know that there are many MANY things I don't know and that there are many things that play into scores that I don't take into account. Of course there will always be subjectivity in a sport like this and people will argue. Just like people will argue about how some countries get better referee calls in soccer or hockey. I just think we have to take into account that there are things that someone who is not an ice dance expert won't see.

But from a casual fan's perspective, Virtue and Moir's performance was the only one my eyes were glued to the entire time.

I absolutely agree that the judges will and should understand all of the inner workings that I as a viewer certainly don't understand. I can understand that on paper a perfect skate from Adam Rippon can't stack up technically against what several of the other competitors had on paper -- and several executed brilliantly too. It's the same process that allowed Nathan Chen to have mistakes and leap over so many others. I understand. Where it starts to wobble for me is that same measure isn't taken against certain skaters and they are considered in the running for the podium despite going in with programs that shouldn't really be in podium contention -- i.e. Carolina Kostner. I like Carolina and think she is a lovely skater. I think if she goes out and skates her program flawlessly and the American ladies go out and skate their programs flawlessly we should expect Carolina to outscore them despite the fact that her program does not contain the same level of technical elements.

That's the kind of bias I think has been and continues to be a problem in figure skating judging.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This is an interesting conversation, because I believe casual fans think the same things about gymnastics, that it's the same people winning and that you have to be from a certain country or have a certain name to win. But in ice skating, just like gymnastics, there are things that the general public doesn't see that the judges do. In gymnastics (which I know much more about), there is difficulty level, composition requirements, skill connections, etc. It's not all about execution and artistry. So a viewer will be mad when a gymnast makes a visual mistake and wins over someone who doesn't, even though it was the right thing.

As a very casual skating fan, I know that there are many MANY things I don't know and that there are many things that play into scores that I don't take into account. Of course there will always be subjectivity in a sport like this and people will argue. Just like people will argue about how some countries get better referee calls in soccer or hockey. I just think we have to take into account that there are things that someone who is not an ice dance expert won't see.

But from a casual fan's perspective, Virtue and Moir's performance was the only one my eyes were glued to the entire time.

To me that's where the commentary, even when it can be annoying at times, helps me understand a bit better on the scoring, etc.

Virtue and Moir's performance was good but it def. wasn't the only one I was watching with apt attention.

Kristi Yamaguchi was interviewed and said of the following for the judging of skating:
"How do you simplify it for the common person?

You simplify it by saying, “Okay, these are the important numbers. Basically, it’s base value, quality, ‘grade of execution’ – which is, a lot of fudging can take place there – and the component mark, artistry as a whole, and then added all together.” I mean that’s the easiest way to explain it and not get too caught up in protocols."
---------------------
"And I hear they’re going to change it again. Or they’re going to experiment with changing it. It’s a work in progress. I think the intent is good, but it’s just finding the right [balance]. It’s all the subtle differences that they make with the rule changes affects the direction the sport’s going in."
---------------------
"Do you think people skating now understand the system they’re judged under?

Yeah. I mean, I think in a lot of ways, skaters have to think so much more in this day. I mean, we skated and it’s just like try to turn your brain off, have your plan and do it. And I feel like skaters now, it’s so strategic and points are always at the back of their mind. For us it’s like if we fall once it’s like get up and finish strong and maybe the judges won’t remember it. And now it’s just like every single little point is just critical. And I think that’s another thing that just kind of weighs in on the mental side of the sport right now."
--------------------

I appreciate her viewpoint especially since she skated before this transition period that I feel skating is undergoing.

 

[Jennasis]

I have an idea for the most whacked Olympic event in history.

1. Swimming 200m Free
2. one touche epee If a tie match occurs with no touche in 1 minute, it's a loss for both of them.
3. Equestrian show jumping
4. A combined event of pistol shooting and running. 3200 meters of total running which counts as two events.

Oh wait They already have it. The Modern Pentathlon.

The modern pentathlon is an abomination. As a professional rider and trainer, the "show jumping" portion is painful to watch (bordering on reckless and cruel). I am always stymied how they are able to find people willing to let their horses be used for the event.

 

[cabanafrau]

The modern pentathlon is an abomination. As a professional rider and trainer, the "show jumping" portion is painful to watch (bordering on reckless and cruel). I am always stymied how they are able to find people willing to let their horses be used for the event.

Is the problem that the riders don't know what they're doing, exposing the horses to a lot of risk?

 

[ronandannette]

Do you mean the results, or the overall performances in ice dance in general?

Personally I would have given the gold to the French pair. I found their free skate to be quite complex and much more genuine, but I wouldn't say that Virtue and Moir's win was undeserved. I definitely didn't see it as the only possible outcome/the inevitable runaway victory it's now being mythologized as. I'm not quite sure the Shibutani's marks matched the performances they put out there either. For me their short dance was incredibly underscored and the free dance was also short on the marks. I wouldn't say they deserved a higher medal necessarily, but their points should have definitely been higher than they were.

I thought another Canadian team was quite overlooked, Kaitlyn Weaver and Andrew Poje could have placed higher in my book. I also found the couple from Spain quite intriguing. In a lot of ways it points to figure skating's age old problem -- judging that's not quite as sharp or unbiased as it ought to be.

As excited as we all are about the win, I don't think it's ever been implied to have been a slam-dunk. The scores were extremely close after the short program and when the French team scored the highest marks in the history of the free program, it clearly was anybody's ball game. And while I couldn't possibly discern all the nuances of the programs and the scoring, I liked the Shabuani's right away when I saw then in the team competition. I'm happy for their result.

__________________________
I largely agree with your comments. I actually just finished watching the recording and I was a bit confused at the huge uproar from the crowd when Virtue and Moir did a move--I was thinking "what's the big deal".

I felt terrible for the french pair especially when you saw their disappointment when they were knocked to 2nd place.

I have def. wondered if judging is influenced by other factors. Skill is a big thing for sure but I also want connection and flow with the music.

I have enjoyed seeing all the costumes but agree some were just not all that good or even downright distracting or didn't match the music IMO.

I don't think it had to do with the particular move. It was in response to the opening notes of "Roxanne" in the music mix. Apparently it's become a well known (and anticipated) juncture in their routine.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't think it had to do with the particular move. It was in response to the opening notes of "Roxanne" in the music mix. Apparently it's become a well known (and anticipated) juncture in their routine.

Ohhhhh ok well that would make more sense then.

 

[soccerdad72]

As excited as we all are about the win, I don't think it's ever been implied to have been a slam-dunk. The scores were extremely close after the short program and when the French team scored the highest marks in the history of the free program, it clearly was anybody's ball game. And while I couldn't possibly discern all the nuances of the programs and the scoring, I liked the Shabuani's right away when I saw then in the team competition. I'm happy for their result.

NBC pretty much handed them the title - I think they're exact words were something like, "Unless something major happens, Virtue and Moir will be gold medalists."

 

[Jennasis]

Is the problem that the riders don't know what they're doing, exposing the horses to a lot of risk?

Essentially. The riders don't use their own jorses. Instead they are assigned a horse provided by the event host. They have 2 minutes to try the horse out before entering the ring and most of them are clearly terrified of the riding portion of the event. Watch the videos in YouTube. Galloping he'll bent for leather at the fence then panicking at the last second because OMG HES GONNA JUMP IT!!! then yanking on the horses face with eyes like saucers. The crashes are plentiful and scary. Many athletes are clearly not spending their training time in the saddle.