The Running Thread - 2018

[LSUlakes]

Question....I haven't run a race since June, but I've got my race schedule charted out from October through next May. The first one is a trail 5k. I've never done a trail race before. in fact, I've never even done a trail run before, period. Since this one is a local 5k, I thought it might be a nice intro to it.

Do I need spikes for a trail race? Does it depend on the conditions? I realize this is a complete newbie question, but when it comes to trail running, that's exactly what I am.

I think this depends a lot on what type of trail you are running. I am no expert, but I would think more times that not you probably do not need spikes.

 

[PrincessV]

2. Previous posts suggested fueling for runs over 1.5 hours, so I gave it a go this weekend. I realized I have no idea when or how much to use. I went for a clif bloc square at about 45 minutes because I knew I would have a drinking fountain available and another at about 1:20, also because I was passing a fountain. How early/often/much do you aim for? Does it make a difference that I go out in the AM before breakfast? Should I expect to see a difference in performance, recovery, or nothing at this time because I am not going long/far enough yet? I'm going to try something else next time because while my stomach was fine, I feel like it is still coating my teeth.

The general advice is to aim for 100 calories per hour. I started with that and tweaked as needed: I now aim for 100+ calories every 45 minutes, taken via gels. I never run on an empty stomach, so I can't comment on that part. And I have chronic hypoglycemia, so I may need more glucose than the average bear, just trying to keep my blood sugar near normal range. I also carry a handheld water bottle, and I sip every 1/2 mile, so I don't have to wait to take fuel until I'm at a water station/fountain/etc., and for big mileage - say, over 16 miles - I use Tailwind or whatever glucose-y water is on a race course, in addition to gels every 45 minutes. I can't speak to how fuel might impact performance/recovery because I've never, ever gone more than an hour without fuel, but I know in regular, every day life if my blood-sugar bottoms out, it's brutal: shaking, nausea, confusion, weakness. I would guess that for the average runner, it might be a more mild version of that?

Sorry - I've got nothing helpful to offer on the other two queries! But I'm sure ore knowledgeable folks will be along soon for those.

Do I need spikes for a trail race? Does it depend on the conditions? I realize this is a complete newbie question, but when it comes to trail running, that's exactly what I am.

totally depends on the trail and conditions, I'd think. I've never owned trail shoes, but run on trails nearly every run - "my" trails are mostly packed sand, crushed shell, gravel or packed dirt, and road shoes work just fine. I might want to consider a trail shoe, though if running a lot of roots, rocks, slippery/muddy spots, etc., just to have more grip.

 

[jennamfeo]

ATTQOTD: I am the same as @run.minnie.miles and my closest airports are 2.5 hours (Vegas) and 3 hours (Phoenix). But I would rather drive than fly. I am a 4.5 hour drive from the Anaheim/LA area and I will always drive there. I am a 6 hour drive from San Diego and would rather drive than fly there too. It just seems cheaper for me to choose to drive because I can pack so much more and booze and have a car... So I feel like if the destination is less than 6 hours that I would choose driving over flying.

 

[GreatLakes]

After following the thread for some time, I have retained some information and cannot find what I am looking for by the search function. Can anyone share their knowledge?

1. Strava- the times do not agree with my Garmin output. The garmin is consistently slower. As this is more disparate when I am in certain places on the map, I am guessing Strava considers something closer to Garmin's 'moving time.' Can anyone comment as to if this is reasonable? I do not pause for street crossings or water fountain stops as I consider them all a part of the run {an option to rest, or water that I would stop for in a race anyhow}, but I do not know that this is really a good or a bad thing.
2. Previous posts suggested fueling for runs over 1.5 hours, so I gave it a go this weekend. I realized I have no idea when or how much to use. I went for a clif bloc square at about 45 minutes because I knew I would have a drinking fountain available and another at about 1:20, also because I was passing a fountain. How early/often/much do you aim for? Does it make a difference that I go out in the AM before breakfast? Should I expect to see a difference in performance, recovery, or nothing at this time because I am not going long/far enough yet? I'm going to try something else next time because while my stomach was fine, I feel like it is still coating my teeth.
3. Somewhere after 90 minutes, I got what I can only describe as 'fuzzy buns,' which is likely not a realistic description. It was not painful, but almost like when your foot falls asleep because it was in an uncomfortable position. I found it bizarre and was concerned so I decided to turn around and head toward home so I am not sure if it would have persisted. Is this normal (ish?) and something to run through? It was fine by the time I got home.

1. I just looked at my 7 mile run from this weekend and both Garmin and Strava have it down to the second as far as total time goes. The moving time is off by 3 seconds in Strava but the elapsed time is the same. Are you uploading right from your device to both? I just upload to Garmin then let that sync over so that might be why they are equal. Strava may interpret the raw .fit data from the device differently so that is worth a look.

2. Fueling strategy varies a lot from person to person. A lot of it depends on your heart rate and how efficient you are at using fat as fuel during runs...which goes back to heart rate training. I think your best option is to track what you try, how you feel, and compare it to what time of day you ate and ran. I'm not sure a straight up x calories per y minutes or miles is useful.

3. I can't say I've ever had that sensation but it sounds like a pinched verve of some sort. I did have some numbness going down the side of my leg once but not quite what you described. I had some scar tissue on my IT band that a few Graston sessions took care of. Now I am pretty consistent with my foam rolling and don't have that problem any longer.

Question....I haven't run a race since June, but I've got my race schedule charted out from October through next May. The first one is a trail 5k. I've never done a trail race before. in fact, I've never even done a trail run before, period. Since this one is a local 5k, I thought it might be a nice intro to it.

Do I need spikes for a trail race? Does it depend on the conditions? I realize this is a complete newbie question, but when it comes to trail running, that's exactly what I am.

I doubt you need spikes. Like some others mentioned what shoes you wear depends a lot on the trails you will run. Soft sand and grass you are probably safe with your road shoes. Wooded trails with roots and rocks and loose dirt you may need additional traction. Stream or river crossings you may need something that lets you drain the water from your shoes. I suspect as long as you are careful and aren't trying to race as fast as possible your street shoes will be fine for a first race, just be careful any time you change direction and be conscious of what you foot is coming down on.

 

[kbenson13]

Race Recap!

23 - Kbenson13 - Run Houston! U of H 10k (50:00 / 47:22)

I was seriously regretting signing up for this race. Late September is still dang hot in Houston and running for 50 minutes at max speed in the heat and humidity seemed like a worse and worse idea as the race got closer and closer.

Then, at the beginning of last week, I got sick. It was just a nasty cold (with a fever, chills and feelings of weakness--it was great!), but it knocked me out of running for most of my one-week taper. Also, I'm not sure I was really over being sick until *maybe* Saturday but may I'm still not? Who knows....

And the last half of last week was spent in Denver at the Great American Beer Festival, which I go to every year. (I think I have mentioned I'm a craft beer fan before. Wondering if any other craft beer fans on this site have ever been? If not--you should definitely go! It's an amazing time.) Not the best way to end the taper, though I did get my final two pre-race runs in in the lovely weather they were having in the Mile High City while I was there.

The one saving grace is that it rained like crazy in Houston on Saturday, pushing temps down for this race on Sunday by about 10 degrees. It was hardly "cool" but a race time temperature of 73 degrees beat the pants off of the 83 degrees (plus) I was fearing.

This is the first time I raced a 10K for time, and only the second time I've "raced" the distance. I was a little nervous and had a lot of adrenaline going at the start. Unfortunately, this means I got off to a FAST start, going well over a minute per mile faster than my planned pace. I *really* paid for the later in the race. As the race went on, the sun came from behind the clouds and it got hotter just as I was running out of gas from my fast start. This meant miles 3-6.2 were a suffer fest for me. I seriously considered walking at several points, but powered through. I even picked up the pace for the last mile.

Now here's the crazy thing. My official time was 47:22, good for 7:38/mile pace. This was more or less my goal race pace, before T&D adjustment and about 10 seconds/mile faster than goal pace as adjusted. I couldn't be more thrilled with that result! BUT, I'm skeptical of it. My GPS said I only ran 5.85 miles, rather than 6.22. That seems like a pretty huge discrepancy. I haven't seen anything from the race organizers that would indicate that they short-measured the course. Their website states that all of their races are USAT&F certified though, so maybe it was just the GPS? It was a 2-loop course and there were several switchbacks on each loop. I can only think that these switchbacks screwed up the GPS.

Anyway I hope it's an accurate time because if it is, then I did a heck of a job despite some late setbacks and poor race-day pace execution. If I did do this well, I give a ton of credit to @DopeyBadger for creating my training program and being an encouraging voice along the way.

Oh, I finished 6th in my age group (out of 59) and 63rd out of 1075. Not bad for a newbie runner!

If you got this far, thanks for reading my recap!

 

[DopeyBadger]

1. Strava- the times do not agree with my Garmin output. The garmin is consistently slower. As this is more disparate when I am in certain places on the map, I am guessing Strava considers something closer to Garmin's 'moving time.' Can anyone comment as to if this is reasonable? I do not pause for street crossings or water fountain stops as I consider them all a part of the run {an option to rest, or water that I would stop for in a race anyhow}, but I do not know that this is really a good or a bad thing.

It has to do with the two different GPS devices if you are running them concurrently. More often than not, the Garmin is likely to be the accurate one of the two since that is it's primary purpose. Like all GPS devices it pings you within a certain "ring". So the larger the "ring" the more error in the measurement. That adds up over time and thus you end up with a longer distance. Look closely at the maps that the two devices generate and see how much running you're doing in your neighbor's backyards. That usually accounts for the extra distance. I've seen the difference as high as 5% between phone based GPS and Garmin.

It also comes down to how often the GPS device is pinging. A device that pings more often (like a Garmin at once per second) will have less error in the measurement. So if you stop at a stop sign, then when you stop and start may be a source of discrepancy depending on where it falls within the "ping" of the devices.

It also comes down to how the two devices interpret the data packets information. Thus you'll find when only running one device (Garmin) at a time but transferring the data over to the other (Strava), you may still see some discrepancies. Although in most cases this discrepancy in distance is very small (like 0.01-0.05 miles).

2. Previous posts suggested fueling for runs over 1.5 hours, so I gave it a go this weekend. I realized I have no idea when or how much to use. I went for a clif bloc square at about 45 minutes because I knew I would have a drinking fountain available and another at about 1:20, also because I was passing a fountain. How early/often/much do you aim for? Does it make a difference that I go out in the AM before breakfast? Should I expect to see a difference in performance, recovery, or nothing at this time because I am not going long/far enough yet? I'm going to try something else next time because while my stomach was fine, I feel like it is still coating my teeth.

As @PrincessV and @GreatLakes said it can be a very individual number for a variety of reasons. Unless you get a metabolic efficiency profile testing done, then you won't have an exact number. But you can get a ballpark from some calculations. Just head to that calculator I sent you to earlier. Your primary purpose for fueling right now is just making sure you find something you can tolerate, and that you allow your body to recover for the next running effort. It's not until you go above 120 min in most circumstances that you'll find you really needed to take anything. And again, your storage may only be low in those cases because of prior training and not because you'll necessarily have to have it for race day. I think when taking it in during training you won't necessarily notice anything different. But if you decided not to take it in and ran for 120 min+ then you're likely to notice the lack of it at that point. So it's more of a, you'll notice if you don't more than if you do. So as long as things feel normal and you're able to maintain appropriate fitness relative paces without a fade, then you're doing something right. I'd say it's more key in these purposes to not exceed 90 grams carbs per hour though. Although, there aren't many people pushing it that far.

 

[apdebord]

After following the thread for some time, I have retained some information and cannot find what I am looking for by the search function. Can anyone share their knowledge?

1. Strava- the times do not agree with my Garmin output. The garmin is consistently slower. As this is more disparate when I am in certain places on the map, I am guessing Strava considers something closer to Garmin's 'moving time.' Can anyone comment as to if this is reasonable? I do not pause for street crossings or water fountain stops as I consider them all a part of the run {an option to rest, or water that I would stop for in a race anyhow}, but I do not know that this is really a good or a bad thing.
2. Previous posts suggested fueling for runs over 1.5 hours, so I gave it a go this weekend. I realized I have no idea when or how much to use. I went for a clif bloc square at about 45 minutes because I knew I would have a drinking fountain available and another at about 1:20, also because I was passing a fountain. How early/often/much do you aim for? Does it make a difference that I go out in the AM before breakfast? Should I expect to see a difference in performance, recovery, or nothing at this time because I am not going long/far enough yet? I'm going to try something else next time because while my stomach was fine, I feel like it is still coating my teeth.
3. Somewhere after 90 minutes, I got what I can only describe as 'fuzzy buns,' which is likely not a realistic description. It was not painful, but almost like when your foot falls asleep because it was in an uncomfortable position. I found it bizarre and was concerned so I decided to turn around and head toward home so I am not sure if it would have persisted. Is this normal (ish?) and something to run through? It was fine by the time I got home.

1) I don't have a Garmin, but I do use Strava. I have to save each run in Strava as a "race" in order to get my actual pace and time; because I do intervals, it sometimes won't include my walking time.

2) I get very hangry when I run. For anything over an hour, I take a GU before I begin, then take 1 clif blok each mile. They do feel funny on my teeth, but I've gotten used to them. I suck on them for a little while to ease that feeling. On bad runs, I use those as motivation. If it's 10 or more miles, I'll take a 2nd GU at the halfway point. All summer I've had to use Tailwind or Skratch for practically every run, but typically I will only carry a calorie drink at 5 or more miles.

3) I'm not sure, hopefully it's nothing!

 

[michigandergirl]

ATTQOTD: A lot of variables on this one for me. If I am the one having to drive, I can manage 3 hours tops if I'm having to drive home shortly after the race. I get so stiff in the drivers seat - I recently had a calf cramp up on me after my most recent half, and that was only a 45 minute drive. That being said, I would very likely drive anywhere that is less than 8-10 hours, primarily to save money, especially if I'm not the one driving or not having to drive home the day of the race.

I really prefer flying, but it's not cheap, especially when taking the whole family. I have and will fly for all Disney races because I can't stand the thought of getting in a car for 20 plus hours after all that running.

 

[OldSlowGoofyGuy]

ATTQOTD: Drive, always.

Mostly so I can bring a sporting good's store amount of stuff for possible weather conditions and lots of of carb-loading beverages.

Oh, I finished 6th in my age group (out of 59) and 63rd out of 1075. Not bad for a newbie runner!

If you got this far, thanks for reading my recap!

Congrats on a great race!

 

[Sanchez]

ATTQOTD: I am the same as @run.minnie.miles and my closest airports are 2.5 hours (Vegas) and 3 hours (Phoenix). But I would rather drive than fly. I am a 4.5 hour drive from the Anaheim/LA area and I will always drive there. I am a 6 hour drive from San Diego and would rather drive than fly there too. It just seems cheaper for me to choose to drive because I can pack so much more and booze and have a car... So I feel like if the destination is less than 6 hours that I would choose driving over flying.

I am with you - six hours is my max drive these days. While we live 10-15 minutes from the Charleston airport we do not have many options for non-stop flights. Atlanta is a five hour drive and Orlando just under six so those are usually drives.

I did drive to a tri in Miami last May. Lugging the bike and all of the other equipment was too much for a flight.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Race Recap!

23 - Kbenson13 - Run Houston! U of H 10k (50:00 / 47:22)

I was seriously regretting signing up for this race. Late September is still dang hot in Houston and running for 50 minutes at max speed in the heat and humidity seemed like a worse and worse idea as the race got closer and closer.

Then, at the beginning of last week, I got sick. It was just a nasty cold (with a fever, chills and feelings of weakness--it was great!), but it knocked me out of running for most of my one-week taper. Also, I'm not sure I was really over being sick until *maybe* Saturday but may I'm still not? Who knows....

And the last half of last week was spent in Denver at the Great American Beer Festival, which I go to every year. (I think I have mentioned I'm a craft beer fan before. Wondering if any other craft beer fans on this site have ever been? If not--you should definitely go! It's an amazing time.) Not the best way to end the taper, though I did get my final two pre-race runs in in the lovely weather they were having in the Mile High City while I was there.

The one saving grace is that it rained like crazy in Houston on Saturday, pushing temps down for this race on Sunday by about 10 degrees. It was hardly "cool" but a race time temperature of 73 degrees beat the pants off of the 83 degrees (plus) I was fearing.

This is the first time I raced a 10K for time, and only the second time I've "raced" the distance. I was a little nervous and had a lot of adrenaline going at the start. Unfortunately, this means I got off to a FAST start, going well over a minute per mile faster than my planned pace. I *really* paid for the later in the race. As the race went on, the sun came from behind the clouds and it got hotter just as I was running out of gas from my fast start. This meant miles 3-6.2 were a suffer fest for me. I seriously considered walking at several points, but powered through. I even picked up the pace for the last mile.

Now here's the crazy thing. My official time was 47:22, good for 7:38/mile pace. This was more or less my goal race pace, before T&D adjustment and about 10 seconds/mile faster than goal pace as adjusted. I couldn't be more thrilled with that result! BUT, I'm skeptical of it. My GPS said I only ran 5.85 miles, rather than 6.22. That seems like a pretty huge discrepancy. I haven't seen anything from the race organizers that would indicate that they short-measured the course. Their website states that all of their races are USAT&F certified though, so maybe it was just the GPS? It was a 2-loop course and there were several switchbacks on each loop. I can only think that these switchbacks screwed up the GPS.

Anyway I hope it's an accurate time because if it is, then I did a heck of a job despite some late setbacks and poor race-day pace execution. If I did do this well, I give a ton of credit to @DopeyBadger for creating my training program and being an encouraging voice along the way.

Oh, I finished 6th in my age group (out of 59) and 63rd out of 1075. Not bad for a newbie runner!

If you got this far, thanks for reading my recap!

Unfortunately, not seeing anything listed under the city of Houston and a 10k distance for "Run Houston" for a certified course. (link) Could be missing it though on my cursory scan through.

I measured it on Google Maps and it's at least reasonable.



The trace on Strava looks to be off in this section around mile 0.5/3.6. Course map makes it look like it should have been on the road. Where you on the road, because that could account for some distance lost there. Were you running on sidewalks or roads for most of the race? Because my measurements were more from street running, but running on sidewalks would definitely cut some distance in some areas.



Always hard to feel confident when the GPS comes back less than 6.22. But this might be a case where the distance of the race was correct depending on how you actually went about running it.

Regardless a great race!

 

[kbenson13]

ATTQOTD: I generally only run races that are within an hour's driving distance. But that's a time and expense issue more than anything else. The longest I've driven for a race is about 3 hours. And for that race, I got a hotel for the night before the race that was local and drove up the day before. I would not want a significant drive on the day of a race. For Disney, I flew. I generally prefer flying to long drives. I'm not a big fan of driving...

 

[Slogger]

Congrats @kbenson13 on your 10K event in Houston. Nicely done with the warm weather and busy taper week.

The Great American Beer Festival sounds amazing. Love to do that one day. Can we get a trip report for that too?

 

[opusone]

Question....I haven't run a race since June, but I've got my race schedule charted out from October through next May. The first one is a trail 5k. I've never done a trail race before. in fact, I've never even done a trail run before, period. Since this one is a local 5k, I thought it might be a nice intro to it.

Do I need spikes for a trail race? Does it depend on the conditions? I realize this is a complete newbie question, but when it comes to trail running, that's exactly what I am.

Probably not spikes, but you may want trail running shoes. I use them for trail runs, and the extra traction definitely helps... even if it's only grass, because grass is often wet in the morning from dew.

 

[CheapRunnerMike]

QOTD: I'm going to try to make this question easy to understand, but I think I am setting up for a FAIL here. Let's say you are traveling for a race and its a distance in which you could either fly or drive to. Which do you prefer? What if any changes would driving v/s flying have on your pre race plans? Post race plans?

Another driver here, and similar to others it has to be a good 8-10 hours before I would consider flying.

1) I'm cheap
2) If it is a destination race then I probably have the whole family with me...that's four airfares to pay for
3) Especially for triathlons with lots of gear to pack, pretty tough to get it all on a plane, plus the added cost and worries about someone damaging my bike or losing important gear. If it is a running race I always pack my race stuff in my carry on. Can't really stuff a bike in the overhead though...

Furthest I have driven for a race was Chattanooga (triathlon), which was about 13 hours. Considering doing Ironman Florida next year though and I would drive that as well, so about 19 hours.

 

[Keels]

Considering doing Ironman Florida next year though and I would drive that as well, so about 19 hours.

I strongly support this decision because I enjoy spectating IMFL!!!!

 

[FFigawi]

I strongly support this decision because I enjoy spectating IMFL!!!!

That might be enough to get me back there!

 

[Keels]

That might be enough to get me back there!

Whatever - you loved IMFL!!!! And I loved drinking 100 margaritas while you cycled 100 miles!!!!!

QOTD: I'm going to try to make this question easy to understand, but I think I am setting up for a FAIL here. Let's say you are traveling for a race and its a distance in which you could either fly or drive to. Which do you prefer? What if any changes would driving v/s flying have on your pre race plans? Post race plans?

If a drive is more than 3-4 hours, I'm flying (ie. Austin, Houston or San Antonio, I'll drive; Cali or Vegas or DC or New York, I'm flying). If I'm driving somewhere a minimum of eight hours away, I have to be staying somewhere for at least three weeks to make it worth my while (so, basically just New Orleans or Florida). I'm only willing the kennel my doggos for a max of seven nights, so anything more than that and they need to go with me - or my Mom needs to be in Texas or I need to be in Florida so she can watch them for any longer period of time over seven nights.

Marathon Weekend for example - I would generally drive to Florida about a week before Christmas and then drive home sometime before the end of January. Obviously, that's going to change this year because none of us want to be in this house for Christmas, so we'll probably do Christmas and NYE in New Orleans, and then a day or two before the Expo, I'll drive on to Orlando. I'll likely stay here until the middle or end of January and then will spend most of February in New Orleans until the weather in North Texas isn't horriawful.

 

[TheHamm]

Thank you for the nutrition guidance. I have lots of time to figure it out, but having more of an idea where to start is helpful!

1. I just looked at my 7 mile run from this weekend and both Garmin and Strava have it down to the second as far as total time goes. The moving time is off by 3 seconds in Strava but the elapsed time is the same. Are you uploading right from your device to both? I just upload to Garmin then let that sync over so that might be why they are equal. Strava may interpret the raw .fit data from the device differently so that is worth a look.

I
It also comes down to how the two devices interpret the data packets information. Thus you'll find when only running one device (Garmin) at a time but transferring the data over to the other (Strava), you may still see some discrepancies. Although in most cases this discrepancy in distance is very small (like 0.01-0.05 miles).

Thank you for taking a shot at my questions, this should not bother me, but it really does. The data is collected via the garmin, which uploads to Garmin Connect, and Strava pulls data from there, so the collection frequency and error in distance should be the same. The interpretation and presentation of the data is a mystery to me. The total time for the run and the distance are the same. The points on the map where it states I have hit a mile are the same. The split time seems pretty far off, and that is the part I do not understand. I am already discounting the elevation data on both as it is not correct (The starting elevation out my door is not suddenly decreased by 200 ft by the time I get home), but cannot make sense of 13:39 vs 12:23, similarly off in miles 5 and 8.

 

[Mickey Momma]

QOTD: I'm going to try to make this question easy to understand, but I think I am setting up for a FAIL here. Let's say you are traveling for a race and its a distance in which you could either fly or drive to. Which do you prefer? What if any changes would driving v/s flying have on your pre race plans? Post race plans?

ATTQOTD: While I LOVE a good road trip, I prefer to fly for races more than a few hours away. (And if I am going to go through that effort, they will probably be in the 10+ driving hours away distance.) I am still very much busy with this mom gig, so when I get the chance to travel somewhere on my own, I prefer to spend that day or two of driving at my destination rather than hours driving back home most likely alone.