If the flattening isn't working is it time to face reality?

[BuckeyeBama]

???? I simply shared a factual statement, that group therapy is not indicated for many mental disorders because it has not proven to be effective. I am not "guys" plural. I think for and speak for myself. My thoughts are my own.

Thanks for the "clarification".

 

[skyblue17]

Well according to that poster they were saying that.
"Sorry - there are American leaders actively saying that now. It is real. Don't just try and shush it like folks here are making it up. "

So, I'm asking for the proof we aren't making it up. They can't provide it so there you go.

There was a link posted on the page before your response with an article about the Lt. Governor of Texas. He's essentially saying that senior citizens should be willing to isolate themselves or risk getting the virus for the greater good of the economy. That can be interpreted in a number of ways. It may be extreme to say "be willing to die so we can open bars back up" but it's not exactly inaccurate.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Millions will most likely die. The question is if it will happen over the short term or long term. In order to achieve herd immunity, 50-60% of the population has to get it. Now, they can either get it or get it via a vaccine. The later will be less deadly. It’s really how many will die before we get a vaccine. How much can we slow it down? If life returns to normal next week, then lots will die.

How many die totally depends on how many have access to healthcare. Right now the death rate in the US is much lower than the global average. That is because our healthcare systems have not been overwhelmed. Once that happens, the death rate skyrockets. Hence the efforts to flatten the curve.

 

[Hikergirl]

There was a link posted on the page before your response with an article about the Lt. Governor of Texas. He's essentially saying that senior citizens should be willing to isolate themselves or risk getting the virus for the greater good of the economy. That can be interpreted in a number of ways. It may be extreme to say "be willing to die so we can open bars back up" but it's not exactly inaccurate.

I'd say its very extreme and a complete misinterpretation.

He said "people are actively saying that, it's real"

Fact- nobody is actively saying that. It isn't real.

 

[sam_gordon]

And if that decision is to let millions die, I'll probably leave America.

Look at it from the other side... does it make sense to have millions homeless in order to save a single life? Of course not, and that's not what you're suggesting. Just like those of us who say we're worried about the economy aren't suggesting to let millions die so we can buy an XBOX.

 

[skyblue17]

I'd say its very extreme and a complete misinterpretation.

He said "people are actively saying that, it's real"

Fact- nobody is actively saying that. It isn't real, they are misinterpreting it that way.

I'm not going to argue with you. I know a lot of people who are interpreting it to be pretty dire of a thing to say. It's definitely not a good thing to say!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My concern is human lives. How is that not more important than money?

ETA - Like I said, I don't have answers. I have friends who have already lost jobs. I lived much of my life below the poverty line. I truly have seen every side of this. But we have to draw the line somewhere as a society, don't we?

Ironic that you're saying we have to draw the line somewhere as a society when that's exactly what other posters are talking about.

I don't think we'll be able to return to a free for all for a very long time. I just don't. I don't know the effect of a long term stay at home orders, gatherings to 10 people, keeping 6ft apart, dine-in bans and all the other measures will be. I do know there will be and there already has been. We're far to early to know that we're just immediately concerned with loss of human life (and there's absolutely a reason for that).

The discussions don't have to be centered around "everything should go back normal really really soon" or "we're basically all going to die" Plenty of us are capable of discussions that include the gravity of the situation we are in with loss of life as a direct result of the virus and the loss of life and quality of life as a consequence of the virus. There's room for both

 

[Hikergirl]

I'm not going to argue with you. I know a lot of people who are interpreting it to be pretty dire of a thing to say. It's definitely not a good thing to say!

Well people do fear what they don't understand.

 

[3threebabies]

My concern is human lives. How is that not more important than money?

ETA - Like I said, I don't have answers. I have friends who have already lost jobs. I lived much of my life below the poverty line. I truly have seen every side of this. But we have to draw the line somewhere as a society, don't we?

Ironic that you're saying we have to draw the line somewhere as a society when that's exactly what other posters are talking about.

I don't think we'll be able to return to a free for all for a very long time. I just don't. I don't know the effect of a long term stay at home orders, gatherings to 10 people, keeping 6ft apart, dine-in bans and all the other measures will be. I do know there will be and there already has been. We're far to early to know that we're just immediately concerned with loss of human life (and there's absolutely a reason for that).

The discussions don't have to be centered around "everything should go back normal really really soon" or "we're basically all going to die" Plenty of us are capable of discussions that include the gravity of the situation we are in with loss of life as a direct result of the virus and the loss of life and quality of life as a consequence of the virus. There's room for both

Once again, @Mackenzie Click-Mickelson , you beat me.
The location of the drawn line is exactly why congress has not agreed on a recovery bill.

 

[Deploraboo]

No they want to impose clean emissions standards on airlines before agreeing to give regular people life saving cash.

 

[Jrb1979]

I think after all of this does end people should expect things won't be back to the way it used to be. A lot of people will be afraid to fly or go on a cruise. Since most people are creatures of habit, the longer this goes on people will be used to going out just for work and groceries. Many will get used to not going out to eat or travel as much. That will become the new normal.

 

[b2k1121]

It seems the government and most states are on the right track to help provide for everyone in order to prevent financial ruin. The latest federal bill provides 100% unemployment insurance, meaning 100% of the salary you were making if you lose your job, for 4 months and can continue to receive your current health benefits. They are going to be providing stimulus checks, likely as long as necessary. Most mortgages are going to allow freezing of payments.

It seems the protect the economy at all costs group is ignoring these measures.

 

[skyblue17]

Well people do fear what they don't understand.

actually nevermind not worth my energy

 

[Deploraboo]

Just don’t believe govt figures. NIH lady said 98% of Euro deaths were > 50. And most of those > 80. I get that younger people can get sick from this but hey can also get sick from the flu too. Without dying.

 

[a1tinkfans]

Still waiting....

 

[BuckeyeBama]

The discussions don't have to be centered around "everything should go back normal really really soon" or "we're basically all going to die" Plenty of us are capable of discussions that include the gravity of the situation we are in with loss of life as a direct result of the virus and the loss of life and quality of life as a consequence of the virus. There's room for both

This is 100% true. But I am shocked to see people say out loud that they are willing to let anyone die. I mean, if you make an off color joke today or call someone fat then you are treated like a pariah, but we have turned on a dime. We went from protecting everyone form anything to a willingness to decide how many we are willing to sacrifice.

That is what scares me far more than the virus. Not the economy. Not the number of people who will die. But what is happening to our society.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

It seems the government and most states are on the right track to help provide for everyone in order to prevent financial ruin. The latest federal bill provides 100% unemployment insurance, meaning 100% of the salary you were making if you lose your job, for 4 months and can continue to receive your current health benefits. They are going to be providing stimulus checks, likely as long as necessary. Most mortgages are going to allow freezing of payments.

It seems the protect the economy at all costs group is ignoring these measures.

We can do this and keep people in our homes, but only if we also protect businesses. When this is over, businesses have to be alive enough to come back. That is the most difficult problem to solve.

 

[erc]

35,000 people died of the flu last year and nobody batted an eye. What about their lives? Why were we not doing more to prevent those deaths? I mean since we are so concerned about money over lives and all...

 

[BuckeyeBama]

35,000 people died of the flu last year and nobody batted an eye. What about their lives? Why were we not doing more to prevent those deaths? I mean since we are so concerned about money over lives and all...

Good question, but this has a death rate 10x higher and is far more infectious. So, there is that.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

This is 100% true. But I am shocked to see people say out loud that they are willing to let anyone die. I mean, if you make an off color joke today or call someone fat then you are treated like a pariah, but we have turned on a dime. We went from protecting everyone form anything to a willingness to decide how many we are willing to sacrifice.

That is what scares me far more than the virus. Not the economy. Not the number of people who will die. But what is happening to our society.

People will die from this. Fact. And they may not necessarily be the oldest or the sickest among us. We don’t have a lot of control over it, even with sheltering in place (or wearing masks in hospitals and supermarkets). Hopefully that does slow down the pace but it won’t save everyone. If we want to blame anyone maybe we should look to how this started and why we weren’t warned about it months before we finally were, not our own government who is now trying to do damage control.

Further, I am getting the sense that either some people cannot think this through logically, or they have a vested interest in seeing the economy tank using the “fear” of coronavirus as a handy excuse.

Let’s get ahold of ourselves, people!