Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[davper]

I always laugh when I see someone says a business is keeping money to collect interest. The amount of interest gained on $5k or whatever your reservation is for over 6 months to a year isn't worth calling the bank over. Not to mention you lose liquidity that way as they are probably are going to want to lock in a term.

Also, idk about other businesses, but we are paying just shy of 3% on cc charges online.

So you think only one deal is affected by this. I imagine there are hundreds if not 1000+. It addes up.

 

[CarolMN]

Thanks, didn't know that. I assumed they were because we talk about them all the time. When ever we bring up a vendor who competes with a current sponsor, Disboards puts an end to it quickly.

That's not true. Only discussions about the businesses that are in the site's filter are removed. There are many that can be mentioned here, more by far than those in the filter.

 

[davper]

That's not true. Only discussions about the businesses that are in the site's filter are removed. There are many that can be mentioned here, more by far than those in the filter.

And why are they in the sites filter If not because Disboards as an agreement with another sponsor?

 

[fsjking]

So you think only one deal is affected by this. I imagine there are hundreds if not 1000+. It addes up.

They are not holding money from this and putting it in a savings account to collect interest. They need liquidity right now. I get you are grasping for anything to bash them over, but this is like the guy trying to say David is blowing people's money in Hawaii. They are not making money off of interest.

 

[CarolMN]

And why are they in the sites filter If not because Disboards as an agreement with another sponsor?

From the Disboards Posting Guidelines:

"The DIS is a privately owned web site and we reserve the right to restrict any outside commercial ventures at our discretion. We will not discuss the reasons behind why specific websites are filtered and any discussion regarding the word filter may be deleted. If you have questions or comments about this or any other DISboards policy, you can address with the webmasters at admin@wdwinfo.com."

See also:
A word about DIS advertisers - Please post a link to any business you wish to mention

Please contact the admin if you wish to discuss this further.

 

[tallguy001]

Looks like David removed ALL reviews from their Facebook page.

 

[McCrae]

They are not holding money from this and putting it in a savings account to collect interest. They need liquidity right now. I get you are grasping for anything to bash them over, but this is like the guy trying to say David is blowing people's money in Hawaii. They are not making money off of interest.

its not clear if David‘s are including their commission charge in the travel credit they are providing. Potentially they could get double commission if they rent points for a second time. A few people will probably never use their travel credit.

 

[Nennie]

Not sure why that quote above is attributed to me? I never said that! LOL!!

 

[starry_solo]

Hopefully, if they do go bankrupt, it's at the end of the calendar year. I have friends who used them to book a September vacation!

 

[LAX]

If I am understanding what's being posted by affected owners and renters correctly, David's is essentially digging its own grave, IMHO. Like someone already mentioned, screwing the owners makes absolutely no sense because his supply of points to rent will dry up even if he manages to survive this. If David's is really intent on preserving what's left in this business, it needs to minimize the losses to owners. The pool of renters is much greater than owners even before this mess, so it would be much easier to find new renters than owners (just in case anyone try to turn this into me advocating screwing the renters rather than owners, I am NOT!).

The right thing to do, IMHO, is try to share the financial pain amongst the parties involved. Perhaps even with David's taking a greater short-term hit if the goal is long-term survival. While I understand there is only so much loss a business can absorb, screwing the suppliers & customers to preserve the business is only delaying its eventual demise.

LAX

 

[Sandisw]

If I am understanding what's being posted by affected owners and renters correctly, David's is essentially digging its own grave, IMHO. Like someone already mentioned, screwing the owners makes absolutely no sense because his supply of points to rent will dry up even if he manages to survive this. If David's is really intent on preserving what's left in this business, it needs to minimize the losses to owners. The pool of renters is much greater than owners even before this mess, so it would be much easier to find new renters than owners (just in case anyone try to turn this into me advocating screwing the renters rather than owners, I am NOT!).

The right thing to do, IMHO, is try to share the financial pain amongst the parties involved. Perhaps even with David's taking a greater short-term hit if the goal is long-term survival. While I understand there is only so much loss a business can absorb, screwing the suppliers & customers to preserve the business is only delaying its eventual demise.

LAX

I believe that him offering the travel credit to renters is his way of stopping the CC disputes.

His keeping money sent back to him by owners who don’t want to rerent the points allows him to have cash availabilie for the chargebacks coming out of his account.

All these renters who are thinking this is great may not truly understand that they aren’t going to be able to simply say I want to use my credit in December and have it happen. Rooms may not be available for a year or so,

 

[LAX]

I believe that him offering the travel credit to renters is his way of stopping the CC disputes.

His keeping money sent back to him by owners who don’t want to rerent the points allows him to have cash availabilie for the chargebacks coming out of his account.

All these renters who are thinking this is great may not truly understand that they aren’t going to be able to simply say I want to use my credit in December and have it happen. Rooms may not be available for a year or so,

I have never run a business, so I am probably not qualified to comment about this. But do businesses ever ask their suppliers for money back if it has a cash flow problem? Should a business ask suppliers to take back products already delivered for a refund? If he wants to save this business, he needs to figure out a way to keep it afloat without alienating the owners. Perhaps he should draw on a line of credit or borrow against his assets if it's a temporary cash crunch that he genuinely believes he can survive?

From what I understand (and I admittedly can be totally wrong), he is trying to keep his business running by putting other people's money further at risk. He hasn't been transparent enough to the owners on his plan to survive (I know he doesn't have to divulge his business plan to anyone). Honestly, I have both rented points from and to David's before, and my few experiences have been great. However, I am not sure if I would want to do business with him in the future based on what I am reading here and I doubt I am alone.

IMHO, once a business's reputation/credibility is tarnished, it's very difficult to build it back.

LAX

 

[OurDogCisco]

I have 3 rentals out there through David. I'm okay with returning the money because I don't have any banking issues. But I'm a little leery of returning the money to David. I'd prefer to return it to the renter? Anyone know if that is possible.

 

[Dracula]

If I am understanding what's being posted by affected owners and renters correctly, David's is essentially digging its own grave, IMHO. Like someone already mentioned, screwing the owners makes absolutely no sense because his supply of points to rent will dry up even if he manages to survive this. If David's is really intent on preserving what's left in this business, it needs to minimize the losses to owners. The pool of renters is much greater than owners even before this mess, so it would be much easier to find new renters than owners (just in case anyone try to turn this into me advocating screwing the renters rather than owners, I am NOT!).

The right thing to do, IMHO, is try to share the financial pain amongst the parties involved. Perhaps even with David's taking a greater short-term hit if the goal is long-term survival. While I understand there is only so much loss a business can absorb, screwing the suppliers & customers to preserve the business is only delaying its eventual demise.

LAX

I fully agree with your conclusions, but have different thoughts on some of the finer points. I am not so sure the pool of renters is much greater than the pool of owners - in any market, supply and demand typically meet at the market price; if your assumption was true, the price per point would go up until the two pools would be of similar size. And in general, in the long term the renters have more options - book cash reservations with Disney, go elsewhere or simply stay home; the owners, on the other hand, are stuck in long-term contracts and they would need to either go to the DVC resorts themselves, or rent the points out.

A business like David's would not go under because of losses - it would just fold when it runs out of cash. Right now it is probably fueled by the 30% deposits retained from reservations through February 2021, so assuming only half the renters would do credit card chargebacks, it may last about 5-6 months.

 

[MICKIMINI]

I have 3 rentals out there through David. I'm okay with returning the money because I don't have any banking issues. But I'm a little leery of returning the money to David. I'd prefer to return it to the renter? Anyone know if that is possible.

Valid point - you have no idea where the money goes after it goes to the broker? I agree that the renter won't necessarily be paid and I didn't even think of that - ouch. I have two out as well - October and January, however both were made recently when the renters knew darn well this virus was raging everywhere so unless WDW is closed they knew what they were doing...what a mess.

 

[Dracula]

I have 3 rentals out there through David. I'm okay with returning the money because I don't have any banking issues. But I'm a little leery of returning the money to David. I'd prefer to return it to the renter? Anyone know if that is possible.

This is not according to the contract, but as you have the renter's contact info, you can certainly reach out and send him a payment via PayPal. David may have some objections though.

 

[fsjking]

I have never run a business, so I am probably not qualified to comment about this. But do businesses ever ask their suppliers for money back if it has a cash flow problem? Should a business ask suppliers to take back products already delivered for a refund?

Depends on the business and the item in question. Some suppliers will take inventory back. Some items can't be returned. You can't just ask for money back on items or services you can't return. It really doesn't have a lot to do with this situation though. This is essentially a 5 party deal between everyone who had involvement.

 

[LAX]

I fully agree with your conclusions, but have different thoughts on some of the finer points. I am not so sure the pool of renters is much greater than the pool of owners - in any market, supply and demand typically meet at the market price; if your assumption was true, the price per point would go up until the two pools would be of similar size. And in general, in the long term the renters have more options - book cash reservations with Disney, go elsewhere or simply stay home; the owners, on the other hand, are stuck in long-term contracts and they would need to either go to the DVC resorts themselves, or rent the points out.

A business like David's would not go under because of losses - it would just fold when it runs out of cash. Right now it is probably fueled by the 30% deposits retained from reservations through February 2021, so assuming only half the renters would do credit card chargebacks, it may last about 5-6 months.

I am not trying to argue your point about supply and demand, but just want to point out on the claim that the pool of renters is greater than owners was made based on continued "plead" by brokers (I know about David's, but not sure about others) that there are many more requests for DVC reservations than the available points to fulfill them.

LAX

 

[Dracula]

I believe that him offering the travel credit to renters is his way of stopping the CC disputes.

His keeping money sent back to him by owners who don’t want to rerent the points allows him to have cash availabilie for the chargebacks coming out of his account.

All these renters who are thinking this is great may not truly understand that they aren’t going to be able to simply say I want to use my credit in December and have it happen. Rooms may not be available for a year or so,

This really begs the question, why would any renter that can do a credit card chargeback and be made whole, would accept a credit voucher with uncertain terms and conditions? I get it, many people, including myself, like David's and would like to keep them in business. But you can keep them in business by renting again once the business normalizes. Airlines and cruise lines, similarly cash-strapped businesses, are doing the same, issuing vouchers for cancelled flights - and my understanding is that, once a customer accepts such a voucher, he gives up on the opportunity to pursue a credit card chargeback.

 

[MICKIMINI]

Do we know of any renter that has successfully done a chargeback - a completed chargeback? Of course, initially the CC takes your side but it does involve a written statement from the CC customer and the entity that gets the chargeback and can flip flop back on the person who called for the chargeback (similar to BBB process). It does not happen in a couple days or a week so my guess is that no one that has done a chargeback has a final answer.