The Running Thread -- 2022

Good luck to anyone on the board who may be running Boston on Monday. Weather looks fantastic. I fly in tomorrow for a family visit and will be volunteering at Gear Check on Boylston St post-race.

In celebration, I wore one of my shirts in my run today--a rare occurrence since I intend to keep them forever.
 

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I survived my first track workout! It was me, my coach, and two other girls he is coaching. They are trying to run a 4 hour marathon or something… lol. So they did a different workout.

I did a fartlek of 1 min run, 1 min walk, 2 min run, 2 min walk, 3 min run, 3 min walk, and back down plus a few bonus 1:1 rounds. It was hard.
 
I finished reading Advanced Marathoning last night, and I'm curious about others who have trained for marathons. The training plans in the book schedule tune-up races. Does anyone typically do that during their marathon training? I'm still a pretty novice runner myself, and I know an all-out HM will require at least several days of recovery, so at least on the surface tune-up races seem like they could be counterproductive.

On the other hand, I do follow the book's logic that a tune-up race has psychological benefits and also tells you where you are and if your training is working.
 
I finished reading Advanced Marathoning last night, and I'm curious about others who have trained for marathons. The training plans in the book schedule tune-up races. Does anyone typically do that during their marathon training? I'm still a pretty novice runner myself, and I know an all-out HM will require at least several days of recovery, so at least on the surface tune-up races seem like they could be counterproductive.

On the other hand, I do follow the book's logic that a tune-up race has psychological benefits and also tells you where you are and if your training is working.
I haven't read that book yet myself, but do they specify the length of race for the tune-up races? Even doing a 5K or 10K will help you psychologically prepare for the marathon.
 
I finished reading Advanced Marathoning last night, and I'm curious about others who have trained for marathons. The training plans in the book schedule tune-up races. Does anyone typically do that during their marathon training? I'm still a pretty novice runner myself, and I know an all-out HM will require at least several days of recovery, so at least on the surface tune-up races seem like they could be counterproductive.

On the other hand, I do follow the book's logic that a tune-up race has psychological benefits and also tells you where you are and if your training is working.

I always have a tuneup race or test weekend for my triathlons and my marathons that are A races. No better way to confirm if the training, fueling strategy, etc., are working or not. I have two tuneups before my full IM this fall.
 
I haven't read that book yet myself, but do they specify the length of race for the tune-up races? Even doing a 5K or 10K will help you psychologically prepare for the marathon.

Where are the tune-up races placed in the plan? Several of the plans I have used insert races along the way but usually not within a few weeks of the goal race.

Yep, the plans specify race length and when. For example, the 18/55 plan recommends a 9-13 mile tune up race 6 weeks and 4 weeks out from the marathon, and/or a 9-11 mile race 2 weeks out. I'd need to re-read the relevant chapters, but I think they don't necessarily recommend doing all of these, but instead doing one race that fits with your schedule and plan.

And to be totally fair, the plan says a 9-13 mile race. A HM is 13.1. So maybe they don't mean running a HM specifically.

I always have a tuneup race or test weekend for my triathlons and my marathons that are A races. No better way to confirm if the training, fueling strategy, etc., are working or not. I have two tuneups before my full IM this fall.

Thanks! Can I ask what length your tune ups are? How do you find your recovery/continuing your training plan goes after these?
 
For my training plan/workout schedule heading toward Wine & Dine, I found races that lined up with whatever distance I was supposed to run that day anyway. My 2 rD weekends so far have been fine, but I think going from running on empty roads/paths to suddenly running in big crowds is throwing me off, so I want to get more used to actually running in racing situations.
 
Yep, the plans specify race length and when. For example, the 18/55 plan recommends a 9-13 mile tune up race 6 weeks and 4 weeks out from the marathon, and/or a 9-11 mile race 2 weeks out. I'd need to re-read the relevant chapters, but I think they don't necessarily recommend doing all of these, but instead doing one race that fits with your schedule and plan.

And to be totally fair, the plan says a 9-13 mile race. A HM is 13.1. So maybe they don't mean running a HM specifically.



Thanks! Can I ask what length your tune ups are? How do you find your recovery/continuing your training plan goes after these?
I am DEFINITELY a novice when it comes to running and racing, however I feel like the only benefit of a tune-up race is for the psychological stresses of waking up, traveling to the race and the adrenaline pump of being surrounded by hundreds or thousands of other runners. As far as hydration and fueling strategy, I personally don't see the need for a formal race to do that. It's EXTREMELY important to have your hydration, nutrition and pacing locked in before your A race, but you can do that on your own. Regardless, I certainly defer to @DopeyBadger for advice.
 
I am DEFINITELY a novice when it comes to running and racing, however I feel like the only benefit of a tune-up race is for the psychological stresses of waking up, traveling to the race and the adrenaline pump of being surrounded by hundreds or thousands of other runners. As far as hydration and fueling strategy, I personally don't see the need for a formal race to do that. It's EXTREMELY important to have your hydration, nutrition and pacing locked in before your A race, but you can do that on your own. Regardless, I certainly defer to @DopeyBadger for advice.

Oh definitely, I practice this on my own during long run sessions while in a training cycle. It is a bit different doing it in a race, but I don't have much trouble making the adjustment on race day.
 
Thanks! Can I ask what length your tune ups are? How do you find your recovery/continuing your training plan goes after these?

For my Ironman, the main tuneup is a half distance race about two months before race day. I will do each leg at IM pace, not 70.3 pace, to get a feel for how my training & planning are working. There will be no taper beforehand and probably a recovery week after where the volume & intensity are reduced. For marathons, the tuneup is normally a half if one fits the timeframe (about 6 weeks out from race day), or a targeted long run of 15 miles at slightly over marathon pace if no half is available. Recovery is a few days or a week of lower load and then back into training. My coach is very good about monitoring my fatigue and workload to keep me from overdoing it.
 
So I currently work part-time and have been offered a full-time position in my same company. I'm debating taking it as I have three small(ish) children and I don't necessarily NEED to work full-time right now. One of my big concerns, though I realize it's kind of silly, is how this would impact my ability to train especially for longer races. So I want to hear how you make it work if you have a full-time job and kids. When do you fit it in? How hard is it in winter if you live someplace with not a lot of light? How many days a week to you train if you're doing a half? Thanks!
 
For my Ironman, the main tuneup is a half distance race about two months before race day. I will do each leg at IM pace, not 70.3 pace, to get a feel for how my training & planning are working.

I think this may be the missing piece of the puzzle, @striker1064. You should be running these races at the marathon goal pace (I'll sometimes even drop it down to long run pace), not raced like you're bent on setting a new PR for the distance. That cuts the required recovery time to something much more like your normal training schedule.
 
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So I currently work part-time and have been offered a full-time position in my same company. I'm debating taking it as I have three small(ish) children and I don't necessarily NEED to work full-time right now. One of my big concerns, though I realize it's kind of silly, is how this would impact my ability to train especially for longer races. So I want to hear how you make it work if you have a full-time job and kids. When do you fit it in? How hard is it in winter if you live someplace with not a lot of light? How many days a week to you train if you're doing a half? Thanks!
I'm tangential to this question: I DON'T work, and have 4 kids (2 teens, a 4th grader, and a 2yo.) We do a lot of extra-curricular stuff (and coaching) so that's sort of like having a part-time job, and cramming running into my schedule is a chore. If I were working full time I would definitely have to decide if it would really be reasonable to fit the time for long runs into the weekends or if I would have too much "mom-guilt" about taking that extra time and want to use weekends as rest days. Look at a training schedule you think you'd use, figure out how long those runs would take you, and then be VERY HONEST with yourself about whether you have time to do the things you need to without getting irritated or resentful about it. Who makes family meals? Who cleans up? Who does laundry? Will you incur additional childcare costs? Will your commute time change?

As far as limited-light/winter running, I did 2 months of 5-days-per-week, treadmill-only running, leading up to MW last year (for Goofy, but that's also what the Higdon plan I used for my half last spring was.) So it IS possible, but I was definitely ready for a break from it by late February. I binged my way through a lot of Marvel movies, D+ series, Amazon Prime series, etc. I only let myself watch them while I was running so I had some incentive to keep plugging away at the miles.
 
So I currently work part-time and have been offered a full-time position in my same company. I'm debating taking it as I have three small(ish) children and I don't necessarily NEED to work full-time right now. One of my big concerns, though I realize it's kind of silly, is how this would impact my ability to train especially for longer races. So I want to hear how you make it work if you have a full-time job and kids. When do you fit it in? How hard is it in winter if you live someplace with not a lot of light? How many days a week to you train if you're doing a half? Thanks!
I don't think your concern is silly at all!

I work full-time and have 2 middle schoolers. I wake up at 5 am four days a week to run or elliptical for at least 30 minutes. We've got a treadmill and elliptical in our basement, which makes it easy. Most weekends I get in a long run of 6-10 miles one morning. I've always got a race (half or less) on the calendar so this is just my routine. I really look forward to my runs and focus on having gratitude to be able to do them. For me, prioritizing my exercise/self-care makes me a happier person which I think allows me to be a better Mom.

Good luck with your decision!
 
Ok, I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I'll try anyway.

I'm a relatively new runner, having only been running since the beginning of 2021. I've been working my way up to longer distances having run the WDW 10K in January and some other 10K's recently. My problem in the last few months is that I think that I've got a bunion on my right foot on the big toe joint. I've never had one before and I think that it's getting worse, so my questions are....

1. How can I treat it to make it go away?
2. Other than just pain, does it do any damage to run on it or should I treat it and rest for awhile?
3. Once I get rid of it, how can I prevent it?

I'm using the same brand of shoes that I've been since Jan 2021 (New Balance FreshFoam 1080 v.10). I've got 3 pairs that I've been rotating. Thanks for any help!
 
I finished reading Advanced Marathoning last night, and I'm curious about others who have trained for marathons. The training plans in the book schedule tune-up races. Does anyone typically do that during their marathon training? I'm still a pretty novice runner myself, and I know an all-out HM will require at least several days of recovery, so at least on the surface tune-up races seem like they could be counterproductive.

On the other hand, I do follow the book's logic that a tune-up race has psychological benefits and also tells you where you are and if your training is working.

I've read Advanced Marathoning by Pfitzinger, but I don't have it quite committed to memory as other books. I think from the responses you can see a wide variety of responses. I think it's critical to understand where the author or coach is coming from when working in mid-training plan races. What is the intent? Is the intent an "A" like effort on a shorter distance race to get an idea where fitness is, or possibly the mental demands of racing, or working on racing strategy? Or is the intent of the race to work in a "B" like effort where you're going through the motions on what would be considered a very hard training run effort, but not quite an "A" level effort? If it's a "B" race and the intent is not to go all out, is that something you can do?

For me, I've tried "B" races before where the intent wasn't to give an all out effort but rather treat it as a training run. It doesn't work most of the time. Most of the time for me, I have intentions of giving a training run effort and then doing an "A" level effort. And that'll certainly mess with the intent of the race in the plan as per the author's goal. In my later years of racing experience, I am now more capable of seeing the forest through the trees and holding back when that's the intent of a "B" race day. But that hasn't always been the case. So be honest with yourself, and don't put yourself in that "B" race situation if you can't treat the race like the author intended.

My philosophy for "B" racing is balance. For every "B" race that occurs, that's less focused training that I'm completing. Conversely, as you mentioned there are mental gains, strategy gains, fitness determination, etc. with "B" races. So I think there's a time and a place for them. I wouldn't put "B" races too early in the plan. They wouldn't serve as a good judge of current fitness, and since you have so much time before the "A" race they could be mentally damaging (depending on how you deal with a reality check, or fail to realize how much more gains you may see before race day). But I also wouldn't put races too late in the plan, or too close to the "A" race itself. You want enough time to recover properly and keep the peak aimed at "A" race day. For a marathon, I like to see "B" races somewhere in that 6-8 weeks from race day window.

I've done marathon training cycles where I've not done any "B" races. I've sometimes been "successful" and sometimes "failed" on my "A" race day.

I've done marathon training cycles where I've done 1-2 "B" races. I've sometimes been "successful" and sometimes "failed" on my "A" race day.

I've done marathon training cycles where I've done several "B" races. I almost exclusively don't do well on my "A" race day. I've learned that this doesn't work well for me.

Find what works for you over time, and find a training plan/coach that aligns with that strategy.

The last thing I'll say is this. We mostly all run for fun. We don't get paid to do it. So if you find racing fun and that's what you want to do more of, then all the power to you. Go do it. Find what gives you joy in the sport. I've been running consistently for almost 10 years now. I've done 53 races total. So that's just about 5 races per year. And that includes five years of doing Dopey and doing four races consecutively. So sometimes I wonder whether I didn't race enough during some of the earlier years, and other times I wonder if I had raced more/trained less would I be in the same position I am now 10 years later. Of the 53 races I've done, 26 of them were PRs. So I didn't have a ton of quantity, but I had a lot of quality.
 
I'm recovering from a nasty stomach bug (I'll spare you the details, but let's say I didn't sleep at all on Wednesday night and took Thursday off of work). Still haven't eaten anything more than a handful of saltines.

I have 19 miles this weekend - I've already committed to doing it on Sunday instead of Saturday so I can recover another day and hopefully eat a real meal the night before. Any other tips for running after a bug like that? I'm planning on bringing my pace down to a 12:00 instead of the mid 11's that I've been running lately. I'll fuel and hydrate like normal.
 

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