Has Disney’s DAS Pass Become A DASaster?

[DLgal]

I’m just trying to think about what might be done to preserve it in its most helpful form for as many people need it.

Disney doesn't need you to think about this. They have people who do this for them.

Disney has the data they need and they have made tweaks to the system that have made it MORE user friendly since its inception, so it stands to reason that they don't feel they need to change anything about how people qualify for one. If they get different data as time goes on, they will change how the system works.

The threat of a lifetime ban for lying to obtain a DAS is probably a pretty good deterrent.

 

[HopperFan]

As someone who was only exposed to DAS due to a friend, the one place I think that DAS gives the perception of a potentially unfair advantage is through the 2 advanced selections. For an outsider people might hear “wait, FP went away but if I just claim DAS I can still book my rides ahead, I don’t have to pay for Genie+, and maybe I can go on more rides by waiting in 1 line and doing DAS for another??? Sign me up!”

I don’t pretend to know the trials that families who rely on accommodations like DAS go through. And I I imagine that just about every one would gladly trade a bit of normalcy for the ability to pre-select Space Mountain. But while education can help overcome points 2 and 3 (for the 10 millionth time it isn’t faster access. It’s just waiting somewhere else. And plenty of people use both to maximize their time in parks) there really isn’t getting around the first one.

Is it fair to allow pre-selections for some but not all? That’s up to Disney. But at the end of the day, if it makes it easier for someone who TRULY needs accommodation to have a magical day, I’d rather err on the side of too much than too little, at least until scammers ruin this one too.

About advanced selections - I’m speaking about the perception from an outsider. Someone who is used to fast passes and now doesn’t have them anymore, but sees this other group that has the ability to book in advance. Whether or not they use it doesn’t matter. It’s all about “I want that shiny toy over there,”

If most people don’t use them perhaps Disney could make DAS “appear” less attractive to those who don’t need it by doing away with it and simply make it about waiting somewhere else.

Again, I have no ill will towards people who need DAS. Watching my friend struggle last time was eye-opening for sure. I’m just trying to think about what might be done to preserve it in its most helpful form for as many people need it.

Honestly I was so surprised that this was part of the process. First they take away the free FP+, take away ability to book the 3 in advance and now can't even buy Genie+ in advance .... yet here is a free option to get 2 a day in advance. The optics are not good. The opportunity for those who have no qualms is prime. I would have been more comfortable with a program that kept it similar to what it was. I'm not even sure I am comfortable with the advance approval. I find it is so much easier to put on an act when on the computer vs standing in person looking someone in the eye.

Disney doesn't necessarily have the ability to change it. I would gladly show medical documentation to get the pass but the Americans with Disabilities Act prohibits them from asking about my child's medical diagnoses and when I try to show them documentation, they refuse to look at it because they don't want to get accused of violating the ADA.

I don't think that is so. Other theme parks, I know Six Flags for sure has a third party process the applications and decide if one is eligible. Documentation is submitted. I've never done it because DS does not ride the big rides that have long lines.

I don't think Disney could do it before because you weren't getting any unfair advantage because FP+ was free. But now that they charge for Genie+ you are essentially getting a paid service, actually an enhanced one with the advance passes, for free. You are getting above what other guests can get. Without the advance the argument could be made one still waits SB time BUT with the difficulty in getting good Genie+ not sure that would hold.

WE are getting something for free that others pay dearly for. I believe that puts them in a different position now to request more, and even move it out of their hands. I don't think Disney wants to do that but usage will determine if program changes just like GAC did.

Assumptions, indeed. I was taken aback by a couple of the writer's assumptions.

Namely, "In my mind, I liken it [scamming DAS] to a physically disabled person parking further away to leave the spot at the front door free for something [sic] less mobile, then watching another person pull in and take it, walking away without issue."

First, anyone possessing a handicap placard or plates is highly unlikely to be this self-sacrificing. They have gone through an often laborious process of obtaining placard/plates because they need to use handicap parking. They would be taking that disabled space, not leaving it for another.

Furthermore, a person may be entitled to disabled parking for a condition that isn't visible---ummm, like qualifying for the DAS, for instance. They may be able to walk without evident impairment because mobility isn't the problem.

The writer's lack of knowledge and discernment is distressing.

This article proves the point in just how “subjective” a disability can appear and am quite taken aback how she says, “ In my mind, I liken it to a physically disabled person parking further away to leave the spot at the front door free for something less mobile, then watching another person pull in and take it, walking away without issue.” Walk away without issue? You have no idea just by looking at someone if they have “issue.” People like you are the people that make rude comments to my son and I when using the disability placard. Just because someone”looks” like they do not have any issue does not mean that is the case. I would like to think that as an author about such a subject, you might be compassionate and understanding about said subject. I do not respond to articles, however I felt compelled to point this out to you and the readers that a disability is not always visible. You do not see the internal struggle or understand why we need to park in that parking place. We park there do to an invisible disability. I would urge people to not assume someone that looks fine is not disabled. There are people with heart issues, COPD, artificial limbs with limited battery life, and those allergic to sunlight and need to get to shade quickly. My son and I have run into these people in the parks. What my son and these people have in common is an invisible disability. They are treated horribly by people based on assumptions. My son and the people I have listed are yelled at, criticized, and called names and harassed by supposedly good people. Do not put a sentence like “walking away without issue.” Do some people take advantage, YES! But, not every person that looks normal is normal. If you would take a moment and ask a question before criticizing, or better yet think if they are parking there that there is a reason. Please do not make life harder for my son and many others that have invisible disabilities that you can’t begin to understand. My problem is not with disney doing these interviews or even asking for a doctor’s note, on the contrary I am all for it. My problem is people like you thinking that just because someone looks normal means they are normal. My son has a very rare condition of 1 in several million. Just because you do not know that he is disabled by looking at him means nothing. Just like you may not know that this person has an artificial limb with limited battery life and by parking at the other end of the parking lot they might not be able to complete their grocery shopping. Just like someone with COPD May look normal but may struggle to take a few steps. Please do not assume that someone is not disabled because they “look fine” or “move without issue.” This article is encouraging the very poor behavior of calling out “normal” looking people for parking in disabled parking spaces. And, furthermore, this publication should be ashamed that they have published and given credence to such small mindedness.

My son is obviously disabled, very obviously, so we haven't been attacked, yet. But on top of his primary disability he has a laundry list of other disabilities. Most are invisible .... until they aren't. We have a DAS and Handicapped Parking tag because of the hidden disabilities, not the obvious one.

She seems to fall in to a pattern that we unfortunately see all over, even here on the boards. It appears that her children's only issue is "cognitive/mental health" and therefore her empathy is only for those she is familiar with and therefore has issues with folks who may have invisible mobility issues in parking lots or invisible medical issues at Disney. I hate it but often see mobility issues pitted against cognitive/mental health issues pitted against invisible physical issues. My son qualifies for all of them. If those of us who live in the "disability" community can't sympathize or support or accept OUR issues are not the only ones that should receive assistance --- how do we expect Disney or any business or the general public to know how to handle. Disney has adjusted their service, I feel like it's working pretty well for most. I expect we'll see more adjustments over time. I think it is a fair service for those who use it. We do wait our turn plus some because we wait the SB time PLUS the LL time. That minus 10 minutes very often doesn't help.

I for one wish there were more Companion Bathrooms, especially at resorts. It has really diminished our ability to eat different places. But they are adding them at every new bathroom built. Hopefully in time there will be more so we have more options when dealing with the folks using them for Family restrooms.

 

[DisneyOma]

I'm so disappointed that this is on the DIS! Is there any recourse to get the "article" and the author out of here? Who is Zoe Wood, and why is she allowed to put this nonsense on this website?

 

[DLgal]

I'm so disappointed that this is on the DIS! Is there any recourse to get the "article" and the author out of here? Who is Zoe Wood, and why is she allowed to put this nonsense on this website?

This is what happens when you pay "contributors" $50 per article. You get garbage like this. Zoe Wood seems to be their most prolific "contributor." If they want to publish her stuff so often, make her an official employee of the company and make her defend what she writes.

This falls on Jackie. She is the editor (I believe) who likely approved this article for publication.

I guess it gets the clicks on social media. Disappointing all around.

 

[nekonekoneko]

TL;dR: don't, this "article" is garbage.

It's an opinion piece, plain and simple. She has a way to get her frustrations out on DAS, probably because she's ineligible for one.

The biggest thing about DAS is that it doesn't, in theory, offer any time savings. As a matter of fact, with Disney constantly inflating their wait times, the wait time needed might be longer than if people actually waited in line. The only benefit is that the waiting occurs outside of the queue. That's it. Disney says you can use that time to enjoy a meal, find another ride, or shop, or whatever. But it doesn't get people into the original ride any faster.

There's also limitations within the laws that Disney has to abide by. Because it's now an "equal" system, there are things that they can and can not ask for. That was why there's no need for a doctor's note. I believe, that legally, Disney is not allowed to ask for one.

One point about Disney's system is that it doesn't need any sort of doctor's note. It's because it's supposed to be equal access, not the front of the line access that GAC used to provide. Now if there was something rife with abuse, it was that.

Six Flags has a system that's similar to Disney's old GAC system. There are some differences, but the main point for Six Flags is that they do require a doctor's note, as they will push you through The Flash Pass line to get to attractions, usually with very little wait. That is more than equal access, so they can ask for a doctor's note.

Is DAS perfect? No. Is anything perfect? No. But we work with what we're given.

 

[MikeOhio]

Das is absolutely ripe for abuse. 10 minutes of searching on google and it’s easy to figure out what you need to say to get one. Even if the person doesn’t appear credible at all, if you say the right words, Disney has to believe you. And yes, they threaten to ban you from the parks for lying, but I bet you that this hasn’t happened to single time. How would they ever prove it short of someone blatantly admitting it?

The fact that the das is ripe for abuse is compounded by Disney now charging for fastpass. Back in days of free fastpass, das didn’t really provide an advantage over your typical guest. Now it provides a huge advantage. There is a real monetary value to getting a das. For many families it’s an easy call to lie to a CM and literally get 100s of dollars in value back and help their family have a better vacation.

It’s certainly not right but there’s no reason for people to bury their head in the sand about what’s happening either or get defensive about it. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see a reworking of Das in near future.

 

[DLgal]

Das is absolutely ripe for abuse. 10 minutes of searching on google and it’s easy to figure out what you need to say to get one. Even if the person doesn’t appear credible at all, if you say the right words, Disney has to believe you. And yes, they threaten to ban you from the parks for lying, but I bet you that this hasn’t happened to single time. How would they ever prove it short of someone blatantly admitting it?

The fact that the das is ripe for abuse is compounded by Disney now charging for fastpass. Back in days of free fastpass, das didn’t really provide an advantage over your typical guest. Now it provides a huge advantage. There is a real monetary value to getting a das. For many families it’s an easy call to lie to a CM and literally get 100s of dollars in value back and help their family have a better vacation.

It’s certainly not right but there’s no reason for people to bury their head in the sand about what’s happening either or get defensive about it. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see a reworking of Das in near future.

I've paid for Genie+ twice. I used it when my son was not with me. Genie+, at Disneyland, is WAY better than DAS. WAY better. DAS is limited by the standby wait times and you can only have one at a time. On days with long waits for everything, using a DAS is the same, time wise, as standing in standby lines all day.

On a typical day, we will use DAS for 3 rides, maybe. I got on far more rides using Genie+.

 

[MikeOhio]

I've paid for Genie+ twice. I used it when my son was not with me. Genie+, at Disneyland, is WAY better than DAS. WAY better. DAS is limited by the standby wait times and you can only have one at a time. On days with long waits for everything, using a DAS is the same, time wise, as standing in standby lineOn a typical day, we will use DAS for 3 rides, maybe. I got on far more rides using Genie+.

Don’t forget das allows you to pre-book two rides per day, and you can use it on the most popular rides like fop and rotr. They each have pros/cons.

 

[DLgal]

Don’t forget das allows you to pre-book two rides per day, and you can use it on the most popular rides like fop and rotr. They each have pros/cons.

Not when you go frequently as a passholder. This really only works when you are going on vacation. We go about every other week. We have never used this feature. We find it easiest to just renew in person.

 

[CinderEmma94]

We’re local to WDW. We don’t get preselected rides for my son who needs DAS to function in the parks. That’s something that’s offered to those going on vacation, not those of us who live locally. He looks like a typical kid to the untrained eye and we catch a lot of flack from random people in the parks including CMs (around the park, not guest services CMs) for using DAS and other mobility assists in the park (you’d be surprised how many times a day I hear people complain not-so-subtly that he is too old to be in a stroller and I’m lazy/he’s lazy/I’m a bad parent). He has both cognitive and physical disabilities but he is still physically small enough to use a stroller as a wheelchair in the parks.

We don’t really have an advantage over others by using DAS. We wait the same amount of time as standby, plus some most of the time when the LL is backed up. Not to mention most of the time wait times are inflated and DAS obviously doesn’t adjust for that. Yes, we don’t have to stand in the physical line (we utilize the baby care center and whatever other air conditioning/semi-quiet we can find) but that is what he needs to be able to function in the parks. My son has almost equal access while accommodating his needs. If Disney wants to change the program they will do it. They’ve done it before for the better. I have no idea how they could change it for the better now, aside from getting rid of the preselected rides to truly even the playing field, but they have people who’s job it is to figure that out. There are necessary hoops to jump through to be approved and my son has to be reapproved every 2 months even though his condition will never change. If people want to cheat they will cheat no matter the program. Thats the world we live in. That doesn’t mean the program shouldn’t exist.

 

[DisSurfer878]

This is a benefit, no doubt. However, it has limitations in that you are held to that one hour window and if you miss it, too bad. For the VAST majority of DAS users, the biggest need is flexibility. Most people who use a DAS can't predict how their day will ever go, and I would venture a guess that a large percentage of these pre-selections go unused. We could never use this type of offering, for example. So, while it appears to be a perk, in practice it's not that useful.

And trip report after trip report from DAS users that I see daily consistently state "we didn't even end up using all/most of our preselections because it didn't work out for us" usually for a reason specific to their disability.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

And trip report after trip report from DAS users that I see daily consistently state "we didn't even end up using all/most of our preselections because it didn't work out for us" usually for a reason specific to their disability.

Which again brings me back to the idea that most truly deserving DAS recipients don’t use this feature, so by getting rid of it they wouldn’t have their experience diminished while the scammers would lose their biggest incentive to try to get DAS accommodations.

 

[cm8]

Which again brings me back to the idea that most truly deserving DAS recipients don’t use this feature, so by getting rid of it they wouldn’t have their experience diminished while the scammers would lose their biggest incentive to try to get DAS accommodations.

I understand what you’re saying but you can’t really interpret that based on some of the DAS users not using the feature. Just because some use it doesn’t make them scammers. It just takes an act of congress for most people who have them to use them due to unknown variables.

I do think that Disney will need to put more safe guards in place to keep the DAS from being abused. The price increase with Genie+ alone will no doubt drive a lot of “me first” people to apply for and receive one just to not have to pay.

Is it right? No, but the threat of a lifetime ban is only applicable when and if they get caught. Sort of like when the mask were required kind of thing. People knew they were required and what the consequences were but still chose not to adhere to the rule of law because “who’s gonna check me” This is just MY opinion though.

 

[TwoMisfits]

We’re local to WDW. We don’t get preselected rides for my son who needs DAS to function in the parks. That’s something that’s offered to those going on vacation, not those of us who live locally. He looks like a typical kid to the untrained eye and we catch a lot of flack from random people in the parks including CMs for using DAS and other mobility assists in the park (you’d be surprised how many times a day I hear people complain not-so-subtly that he is too old to be in a stroller and I’m lazy/he’s lazy/I’m a bad parent). He has both cognitive and physical disabilities but he is still physically small enough to use a stroller as a wheelchair in the parks.

We don’t really have an advantage over others by using DAS. We wait the same amount of time as standby, plus some most of the time when the LL is backed up. Not to mention most of the time wait times are inflated and DAS obviously doesn’t adjust for that. Yes, we don’t have to stand in the physical line (we utilize the baby care center and whatever other air conditioning/semi-quiet we can find) but that is what he needs to be able to function in the parks. My son has almost equal access while accommodating his needs. If Disney wants to change the program they will do it. They’ve done it before for the better. I have no idea how they could change it for the better now, aside from getting rid of the preselected rides to truly even the playing field, but they have people who’s job it is to figure that out. There are necessary hoops to jump through to be approved and my son has to be reapproved every 2 months even though his condition will never change. If people want to cheat they will cheat no matter the program. Thats the world we live in. That doesn’t mean the program shouldn’t exist.

The likeliest changes that would eliminate all abuse would be to get rid of prebooked rides and to track users and not allow waiting in any lines while a DAS line wait pass is active - they have the tech, and could do it, but I think the backlash would be bad.

But both those changes would pretty much eliminate any reason to abuse b/c then you truly couldn't ride more or better than you could without paying...

Right now, you can - and thus, why this is probably ripe for abuse by the only-going-one-time-and-have limited-time-and-funds crowd...

 

[eticketplease]

The fact that the das is ripe for abuse is compounded by Disney now charging for fastpass. Back in days of free fastpass, das didn’t really provide an advantage over your typical guest. Now it provides a huge advantage.

DAS gives the same advantage now as it did with Paper Fastpasses and having to find a blue umbrella for a return time and that is to allow our family to actually enjoy the park. Many times we have struggled with the normal line and be about 10 feet from getting on the ride to have to leave the que for one reason or another.

The only advantage is not having to find a blue umbrella or walk to the attraction to obtain a return time and using the app now.

Don’t forget das allows you to pre-book two rides per day, and you can use it on the most popular rides like fop and rotr. They each have pros/cons.

You can not prebook any of the rides that are ILL.
Like many others we have not used any of our prebooked selections as something always seems to come up during the preselected time. The same thing would happen when we had prebooked fastpasses that were made in advance as I am sure is common for most of us that need DAS for our visits.

I will continue to use the computer to register as I can bring the laptop in front of DS (where he is in a comfortable familiar space) when the cast member asks to speak with him rather than having to drag him to Guest Services and put him through that. We certainly would go to Guest Services if the online thing was not available but this saves us a lot of issues.

 

[DisSurfer878]

Which again brings me back to the idea that most truly deserving DAS recipients don’t use this feature, so by getting rid of it they wouldn’t have their experience diminished while the scammers would lose their biggest incentive to try to get DAS accommodations.

I believe the reason it is offered is to prevent another complete outcry like when they changed thinfs up with DAS and got into all the lawsuits several years ago.

Many people felt their disabled children (particularly autistic kids) would freak out not knowing they had "gauranteed rides" like they had in the past with FP+. It was heavily discussed when the new systems were announced actually.

So Disney is doing this as a CYA to avoid further legal entanglements over their DAS program.

 

[DisSurfer878]

The likeliest changes that would eliminate all abuse would be to get rid of prebooked rides and to track users and not allow waiting in any lines while a DAS line wait pass is active - they have the tech, and could do it, but I think the backlash would be bad.

But both those changes would pretty much eliminate any reason to abuse b/c then you truly couldn't ride more or better than you could without paying...

Right now, you can - and thus, why this is probably ripe for abuse by the only-going-one-time-and-have limited-time-and-funds crowd...

This is ridiculous, saying people should not be alloaed to wait in other lines. THAT would be "unequal access", because currently you can technically have a free virtual queue for Gaurdians AND be standing in another line. But even without the "free" aspext, people with Genie+ can be "in" two lines. And the point of ADA is to offer the same experience without having to charge people for it.

So, no, removing the ability to be in other lines would solce NOTHING expect for landing Disney in court for violating ADA.

 

[DLgal]

The likeliest changes that would eliminate all abuse would be to get rid of prebooked rides and to track users and not allow waiting in any lines while a DAS line wait pass is active - they have the tech, and could do it, but I think the backlash would be bad.

This makes no sense. My son, for example, can wait in some lines. He had a DAS for certain indoor lines with switchbacks or heavy sensory components: darkness, low ceilings, tight spaces, loud noises. He gets anxious/panicked in claustrophobic situations. He can stand in a single file outdoor line for an hour (he'd complain, but he can do it). But he doesn't have the mental stamina to do that over and over again all day long. If DAS didn't exist, there are certain rides he would NEVER go on because of the queue environment and we'd have to leave after like 3 hours every time because he would be DONE, mentally. The DAS allows us to alternate between faster access using LL and waiting in standby lines so that we can spend an entire day in the parks (for us, 6-8 hours).

I feel like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of why the DAS program exists and how people use it.

 

[lanejudy]

Don’t forget das allows you to pre-book two rides per day, and you can use it on the most popular rides like fop and rotr.

This is false and I would appreciate you NOT spreading false information here or other places. Neither FOP nor RotR can be booked as DAS Advanced Selections. None of the ILL$ can, nor the attractions which were "temporarily" removed from ILL$ status, nor any attraction using VQ.

 

[lanejudy]

And the point of ADA is to offer the same experience without having to charge people for it.

Um...not exactly in the sense you've suggested. You are correct that the point of ADA is to make things equally accessible without additional charge. If DAS-users want Genie+ they need to pay for it like everyone else. DAS is not intended to be an equal to Genie+ so technically it's incorrect to say "Genie+ allows X so DAS must be allowed that too." There could be a restriction on DAS use, but that is highly unlikely; I honestly can't imagine Disney IT managing that even if they wanted.