Ohio Train Derailment

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Fewer employees are doing more jobs for longer hours, maintenance windows are being extended, trains are being loaded longer and heavier, and the locomotive industry has far too much power to make their own safety regulations or lobby regulations out of bills in Congress.

All of that is ignoring the question about whether or not we should be even transporting some of these materials at all.

Ok yeah I can totally see that. And observationally the trains are absolutely getting longer. It used to be said that about 88 trains per day (and that was just the BNSF ones) went through just the west side of my city but it's possible that has been slightly reduced but just with longer trains going through.

BNSF is the main railroad company in my area with a few others smaller lines but we know how hard of a struggle it is to get them to repair the railroad crossings. They def. upkeep the tracks (it's not uncommon to see new ties by the crossing) but the grading, corrections, etc for the crossings have been such a struggle. Everyone wants to blame the city but the city is like we cannot do anything about it we're at the mercy of the railroad companies. One crossing that is a high traffic one for a while needed to be repaired every couple of months but BNSF was delaying it. It was so bad it was destroying undercarriages of vehicles because the asphalt had been weighed down so much you were just hitting the tracks and so hard too. And on the west side of the city (where I live) there is only 1 bridge the rest you have to wait for crossings so it's hard to avoid them.

The transport is a good question I just don't know how else we get these from place to place.

 

[amylevan]

Rail transport is the safest way to transport hazmats. So short of not transporting at all, there isn’t a safer way.

 

[GreatLakes]

Rail transport is the safest way to transport hazmats. So short of not transporting at all, there isn’t a safer way.

And that might be the solution. You have to manufacture some of these hazardous materials where you are going to use them. I believe other countries already have those rules in place.

Alternatively they can add more safety measures like requiring the most advanced braking systems on any trains carrying the materials and not allowing the railroads to transport these materials until they do.

 

[DCLMP]

Just FYI, he is hysterical. I saw him in some stuff when he was actively in movies, etc. I never was a fan. He got sober and focused on his well-being and now he does this podcast on current news.

His style just make me laugh. He shows a variety of reporting (newspapers, magazines, online sites) and then gives his perspective. He does not affiliate with a party as Americans might expect.

Check out his YouTube channel and maybe watch his most popular episodes. You'll get a sense of his style. His impression of Klaus Schwab is amazing.

He's funny, but I don't agree with his take on economic things.

 

[luvthatduke]

"Railroad Workers Warned 'Anyone That Would Listen' of Ohio Train's Dangers for Years
The 32N train that derailed outside of East Palestine, Ohio,
was so plagued by problems workers knew it as "32 Nasty."

https://jalopnik.com/railroad-worke...-would-listen-of-ohi-1850127075?ICID=ref_fark

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

There are many that fight against any kind of regulations (bad for business), worker's ability to organize and demand safe working conditions (bad for business), and improvements to aging infrastructure (too costly). It's a shame that it takes disasters like this to make the benefits of those things more clear.

 

[Christine]

There are many that fight against any kind of regulations (bad for business), worker's ability to organize and demand safe working conditions (bad for business), and improvements to aging infrastructure (too costly). It's a shame that it takes disasters like this to make the benefits of those things more clear.

I think we used to call that "unbridled Capitalism." I'm a great fan of capitalism and I think it works well, but we need more regulations. I know "regulation" is a bad word with the folks that are looking to be "job creators" and make money, but there needs to be some rein on things because the corporations do not care about public health and safety. That is way down far on their list of concerns.

 

[Skippy918]

Was there a 2nd train derailment or just that big one?

 

[Colleen27]

Rail transport is the safest way to transport hazmats. So short of not transporting at all, there isn’t a safer way.

Not transporting is still safer, though. Plenty of countries have distance restrictions for carrying hazardous chemicals, which essentially forces them to be manufactured in proximity to the facilities where they're used, but that flies in the face of American businesses' fondness for consolidation and efficiency in the name of profits. From a purely rational stance, Norfolk Southern's approach makes sense - since companies are very rarely held accountable for the full costs of economic disasters and are usually shielded from liability to some extent by law and to a greater extent by the ability to out-lawyer the opposition, it doesn't make sense to lay out large sums of money to prevent disasters. This is the prevailing view of our economic system right now, that businesses are only accountable to shareholders and have only the obligation to increase profitability, not to operate more responsibly than is required by law.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I think we used to call that "unbridled Capitalism." I'm a great fan of capitalism and I think it works well, but we need more regulations. I know "regulation" is a bad word with the folks that are looking to be "job creators" and make money, but there needs to be some rein on things because the corporations do not care about public health and safety. That is way down far on their list of concerns.

Yes, lots of folks are for "unbridled capitalism" until they need some kind of bailout....as in the Great Recession or during say...a pandemic that stops the world, etc. And then when it all falls apart....we, the taxpayers bail them out....time and time again.

We also want everything to be made here in the U.S of A....and while that's obviously to our advantage in many instances, we need the infrastructure and yes, regulations...to keep things running smoothly. But we don't want to deal with that, and we certainly don't want to pay for it.

 

[luvthatduke]

Was there a 2nd train derailment or just that big one?

Unfortunately, yes, Feb. 16th in Detroit, Michigan:

https://news.yahoo.com/train-derails-michigan-near-detroit-194644171.html

 

[Moliphino]

Unfortunately, yes, Feb. 16th in Detroit, Michigan:

https://news.yahoo.com/train-derails-michigan-near-detroit-194644171.html

There was one in Texas recently, too, after a train hit a semi.

https://www.khou.com/article/traffi...ston/285-c289e5bc-ac76-4dc0-8666-b7f4219d468c

 

[DeeBee3]

Just wanted to add some updates to this thread - the Times gives a decent overview of who is testing, what locals are saying, etc. There is also concern about dioxins - both the R and D senators from Ohio have sent a letter to the EPA.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/19/us/politics/east-palestine-toxic-chemicals-epa.html

There are many questions about who actually wanted to do the "controlled burn" rather than empty the cars and transport the chemicals elsewhere. I've heard many things in my news reports but the most concerning is that Norfolk Southern made the decision itself and basically no one on the ground knew the protocol to say otherwise. Obviously, the train company is not supposed to make any decision let alone one that critical. Not sure if it's accurate, however.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/clim.../17/ohio-derailment-controlled-burning-toxic/
From the article referring to PA gov, Shapiro:
"But Shapiro in his letter wrote that Pennsylvania’s environmental and emergency management departments found that Norfolk Southern did three things that “put the safety of our first responders and residents at significant risk.”
He started by saying that Norfolk Southern staff made their own plan without coordinating with state agencies, forcing those agencies to react without knowing the plan’s details.
He then wrote that Norfolk Southern “gave inaccurate information and conflicting modeling about the impact” of the controlled release of chemicals, which made it harder for the state to protect people in the immediate aftermath of the derailment.

The Pennsylvania governor’s final point was about Norfolk Southern’s “unwillingness” to explore alternatives to venting and burning chemicals in all five cars. The company carried out the practice “without allowing for input from Pennsylvania emergency management leaders.”

I will go back to the OP's statement and say I think this derailment has been "covered," but I don't think the critical nature of it and how it effects the people and environment was properly covered until just this week. The community will need medical monitoring for decades really. All of these chemicals need to be monitored for years to come. That was always my big concern in any of my posts. Based on any interviews I've heard or read about, the community feels ignored to a certain extent.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

I wonder if all train crew have to have HAZWHOPER training and if they are required to carry containment kits? Obviously this is a massive scale vs just one trailer but if you are moving massive amounts of chemicals what safety measures are already in place? So sad. This is awful.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

I found there was a derailment in a small community in PA about a year ago and Norfolk Southern has yet to clean it up.

 

[Beezle2]

Looks like the Federal EPA is going to take over. Maybe we will finally get some better reporting.

"The Environmental Protection Agency will take control of the response to the Ohio train derailment disaster and order rail company Norfolk Southern to clean up the contamination, the agency said Tuesday, the Biden administration’s strongest response yet to the crisis.

Rather than clean up the toxic wreck voluntarily, as it has done so far, Norfolk Southern will be required to do so under a plan approved by the EPA, which will also take over certain aspects of the response from Ohio. Norfolk Southern will also have to pay the remediation costs — as well as pay for cleaning services that the agency will offer to residents and businesses, participate in public meetings and share information publicly, according to the EPA."

 

[BroadwayHermione5]

Its getting more chaotic by the minute. My friend while still far enough away is getting mixed signals from local, state, and federal government (mainly the former two). He has family that have well systems (his one saving grace is hes not on a well system). But birds are dropping everywhere. Not bottled water to be found. Minus weekly laundry essentials and showers, they use dry cleaning bags to wash clothes and don't take long showers.

Its scary

 

[bennifer]

Its getting more chaotic by the minute. My friend while still far enough away is getting mixed signals from local, state, and federal government (mainly the former two). He has family that have well systems (his one saving grace is hes not on a well system). But birds are dropping everywhere. Not bottled water to be found. Minus weekly laundry essentials and showers, they use dry cleaning bags to wash clothes and don't take long showers.

Its scary

It IS scary! I live about 45-50 miles away but there have been reports of animals getting sick and being treated for vinyl chloride poisoning close by and multiple calls to our county's emergency center about symptoms, etc. Fortunately, our water source is not the Ohio River, so we have that going for us.

 

[BroadwayHermione5]

It IS scary! I live about 45-50 miles away but there have been reports of animals getting sick and being treated for vinyl chloride poisoning close by and multiple calls to our county's emergency center about symptoms, etc. Fortunately, our water source is not the Ohio River, so we have that going for us.

It’s horrible! My friend is probably 10 minutes away from you! I hope you are all doing ok

 

[DCLMP]

I think we used to call that "unbridled Capitalism." I'm a great fan of capitalism and I think it works well, but we need more regulations. I know "regulation" is a bad word with the folks that are looking to be "job creators" and make money, but there needs to be some rein on things because the corporations do not care about public health and safety. That is way down far on their list of concerns.

Government agencies lie too.