Crohns and DAS = denied. MODERATOR NOTE: No diagnosis is automatically allowed or denied for DAS. DAS is issued based on needs, not diagnosis

[10CJ]

Since I last checked in on this thread I've heard stories from two other people saying they were denied because the CM told them they could have someone save a place in line for them. WTH are they thinking?

This sounds like a horrible idea for a variety of reasons. What if they are by themselves? How do they meet up with their group?

 

[Lilsia]

Since I last checked in on this thread I've heard stories from two other people saying they were denied because the CM told them they could have someone save a place in line for them. WTH are they thinking?

I don't understand this either, especially with the issues that it has been causing lately.

 

[Lilsia]

So, not Disney, but we went to Universal Hollywood with our kids for the first time yesterday and got an Attraction Assistance Pass with no problem. They were SO friendly and helpful and didn't make me go into too many details about my son's difficulties. I said one sentence and was about to continue and he put his hand up and said "I completely understand, I got you. What is the young man's name?" And he issued the pass, explained in detail about how it works, and gave my son's First Visit pins. Easy peasy, and it REALLY helped make our day successful (because Universal Hollywood during spring break is NO JOKE and lines were long for everything all day).

I also have to say, I did do a couple standby lines when my son was too timid to try something until his brother tried it first, and I didn't witness ANY line jumping. Guests were also very polite and friendly all day. It was a different crowd than we typically see at Disneyland, a much less entitled crowd, I'll say that much. Disney has created monsters, it seems, and the suggestions to hold places in line rather than accommodate people's disabilities is a sad direction for Disney.

Universal's assistance pass was not nearly as convenient as the DAS, but it worked just as well. Maybe Disney needs to dial back on some of the convenience to preserve the integrity of the program. It seems other parks are getting more generous with their accommodations (Universal, Legoland, Sea World) while Disney is getting more stingy.

I don't think that it is really Disney's fault in terms of them doing anything wrong. There seems to be this mental state that some people have that you HAVE to go to WDW with your kids. Almost as if they are entitled to go. But then they see how expensive it is and get an even bigger attitude. No one has that mentality with US for some reason.

 

[Stank]

Unfortunately, as always it boils down to, “And this is why we cannot have nice things.” Reasonable accommodation was a virtuous pursuit, but it’s become abused generosity. The exploitation of DAS for non-legitimate cases (and the subsequent viral bragging about it) has tainted what otherwise is a well-intentioned program.

At the same time the larger issue has become the gray area (gray hat vs. black hat; overuse vs. abuse) where an unreasonable volume of reasonable accommodation is requested. Parking lots have regular spaces pushed farther and farther away.

I think we’re at the tipping point where “no questions asked/how dare you” is being met with “C’mon.” And it’s just a byproduct of the circumstances. The overuse of reasonable accommodation eventually reaches an unreasonable level. How we strike the balance is the challenge as it is (or was) general practice to err on the side of caution: grant it.

At the same time the customer needs to understand the standard set was always prefaced with “reasonable” and not just “accommodation.” We understand this with grandfathering/not forcing a big ticket expense to bring marginal benefit. However, I think customers need to be cognizant of their own particular situation and if it’s reasonable to expect others to reasonably accommodate knowing there’s a growing segment of the same requests being asked of accommodators.

It’s at the point where things are shifting to more selective accommodation. A theme park day is grueling enough for anyone as-is. Knowing that some level of responsibility is on each of us to know our capabilities. There’s a growing suspicion if you can’t wait in a line, why be at a theme park? Very few fit in the category of 1) I can spend hours walking around a theme park day after day and 2) I can’t physically/mentally wait in line. And I don’t think placating the situation solves the overarching problem Disney is seeing: They have too many DAS requests. Disney’s challenge is how to winnow these out.

 

[Lilsia]

Unfortunately, as always it boils down to, “And this is why we cannot have nice things.” Reasonable accommodation was a virtuous pursuit, but it’s become abused generosity. The exploitation of DAS for non-legitimate cases (and the subsequent viral bragging about it) has tainted what otherwise is a well-intentioned program.

At the same time the larger issue has become the gray area (gray hat vs. black hat; overuse vs. abuse) where an unreasonable volume of reasonable accommodation is requested. Parking lots have regular spaces pushed farther and farther away.

I think we’re at the tipping point where “no questions asked/how dare you” is being met with “C’mon.” And it’s just a byproduct of the circumstances. The overuse of reasonable accommodation eventually reaches an unreasonable level. How we strike the balance is the challenge as it is (or was) general practice to err on the side of caution: grant it.

At the same time the customer needs to understand the standard set was always prefaced with “reasonable” and not just “accommodation.” We understand this with grandfathering/not forcing a big ticket expense to bring marginal benefit. However, I think customers need to be cognizant of their own particular situation and if it’s reasonable to expect others to reasonably accommodate knowing there’s a growing segment of the same requests being asked of accommodators.

It’s at the point where things are shifting to more selective accommodation. A theme park day is grueling enough for anyone as-is. Knowing that some level of responsibility is on each of us to know our capabilities. There’s a growing suspicion if you can’t wait in a line, why be at a theme park? Very few fit in the category of 1) I can spend hours walking around a theme park day after day and 2) I can’t physically/mentally wait in line. And I don’t think placating the situation solves the overarching problem Disney is seeing: They have too many DAS requests. Disney’s challenge is how to winnow these out.

I still don't think that DAS makes up any significant portion of park attendance. After reopening and before they introduced Genie+, there were hardly any people in that line. There was barely even a 5 minute wait at the most even when the parks were really busy.

 

[Stank]

I still don't think that DAS makes up any significant portion of park attendance. After reopening and before they introduced Genie+, there were hardly any people in that line. There was barely even a 5 minute wait at the most even when the parks were really busy.

Right. I think the driver for Disney is two-fold. One, the abuse of the system and subsequent bragging about it on social media taints the integrity of the program. This leads to overuse/exploitation of DAS, which burdens other guests’ experiences.

Two, it’s adding more people in the LL that aren’t paying for the premium. DAS has been around for a decade-ish, so I’m sure Disney is looking at a rise in DAS requests and clamping down on it. It’s essentially shifting Standby to LL.

I don’t know what the DAS numbers are, but Disney has that data. They’re aware bad actors are getting the word out, so they need to protect the program if it is to be offered going forward. Sadly, that means stricter means of obtaining DAS even for legitimate requests.

At the end of the day, some may just find Genie+ to be worth it instead of the DAS hassle.

 

[DLgal]

Right. I think the driver for Disney is two-fold. One, the abuse of the system and subsequent bragging about it on social media taints the integrity of the program. This leads to overuse/exploitation of DAS, which burdens other guests’ experiences.

Two, it’s adding more people in the LL that aren’t paying for the premium. DAS has been around for a decade-ish, so I’m sure Disney is looking at a rise in DAS requests and clamping down on it. It’s essentially shifting Standby to LL.

I don’t know what the DAS numbers are, but Disney has that data. They’re aware bad actors are getting the word out, so they need to protect the program if it is to be offered going forward. Sadly, that means stricter means of obtaining DAS even for legitimate requests.

At the end of the day, some may just find Genie+ to be worth it instead of the DAS hassle.

I agree that they need to protect the program, but they shouldn't do it by either downplaying people's challenges or shaming guests who request accommodations.

The last time we renewed my son's DAS, the guy begrudgingly gave it to him and made a comment that was along the lines of "you probably shouldn't even be here if you have these challenges." And it really pissed me off. My son LOVES the parks. He has been coming to Disneyland since he was 2 months old. He is 17 now. It's not his fault that he was born with this set of challenges, but he has made so many improvements over the years in all aspects of his functioning and these parks have been a huge reason for that. He feels safe there and it's because they "help him so he doesn't have a hard time." His whole life is a "hard time." The poor kid deserves some fun too. Disneyland is our escape from the harsh world out there.

I think the ADA is a wonderful thing, but I disagree with the part that requires no proof of your disability. That would go a LONG way towards equalizing the playing field. I get the privacy argument, but there really should be a way to obtain a type of disability card through official means that identities a person as someone with a disability, without indicating what that is. I think people with legitimate needs would be happy to show proof.

 

[Lilsia]

Right. I think the driver for Disney is two-fold. One, the abuse of the system and subsequent bragging about it on social media taints the integrity of the program. This leads to overuse/exploitation of DAS, which burdens other guests’ experiences.

Two, it’s adding more people in the LL that aren’t paying for the premium. DAS has been around for a decade-ish, so I’m sure Disney is looking at a rise in DAS requests and clamping down on it. It’s essentially shifting Standby to LL.

I don’t know what the DAS numbers are, but Disney has that data. They’re aware bad actors are getting the word out, so they need to protect the program if it is to be offered going forward. Sadly, that means stricter means of obtaining DAS even for legitimate requests.

At the end of the day, some may just find Genie+ to be worth it instead of the DAS hassle.

What's shifting the LL to standby is them overselling Genie+. A fact that they have acknowledged.

 

[DisSurfer878]

Two, it’s adding more people in the LL that aren’t paying for the premium. DAS has been around for a decade-ish, so I’m sure Disney is looking at a rise in DAS requests and clamping down on it. It’s essentially shifting Standby to LL.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: by making "fast passes" an added cost, there are families of disabled persons who could have made visiting the parks work when it was free, because they could make fp+ work for them who no longer can do so without DAS due to the added cost.

Caring for or being a disabled person is incredibly expensive.

So before they may have never needed DAS because their preferred options was already free, but now, they can't afford all of those added costs and need to use DAS.

And before anyone comes with the "well FP+ wasn't guaranteed nearly as many rides as you can get with DAS"

There are numerous disabled people who only visit the parks for a few short hours at a time, and likely found that even the limited number of FP+ times they could have was sufficient.

 

[ttintagel]

And I think it's worth remembering that because it is so accessible and accommodations are better than at other destinations, a higher percentage of people with disabilities and their families choose a Disney park over other vacation spots. There will always b a certain number of people who think abusing accommodations gets them some kind of worthwhile advantage, but reliable data on the phenomenon just doesn't exist. Are we hearing more about it now, in the days of ubiquitous social media? Absolutely. But there's no way to know if it's actually happening more or if we just didn't know about it before.

 

[abbyandangel]

My DD can only do certain rides. With FP+ we could repeat those rides with little wait so we never requested DAS. Last trip we paid for Genie+ but also applied for DAS. The trip would not have been worth it to ride the few things she could once then go back to the room. That is why after 10 trips we requested DAS. It was not to save money.

 

[DisneyOma]

I still don't think that DAS makes up any significant portion of park attendance. After reopening and before they introduced Genie+, there were hardly any people in that line. There was barely even a 5 minute wait at the most even when the parks were really busy.

After reopening, fewer people were going to the parks. I bet even fewer people with disabilities were going because COVID was incredibly dangerous for them (People with immune system issues, people who could not tolerate wearing a mask, etc.) We went two summers ago - the parks felt pretty empty; we used DAS for some attractions, but a lot of standby queues were very manageable for me. I don't think you can use that time frame for an accurate ratio.

 

[SteveMouse]

Universal provides miserable service iv one happens to be a scooter or a powerchair user, requiting transfers to manual chairs that don’t readily accommodate many people’s bodies. Not friendly for mobility challenges at all.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

DAS is not based on diagnosis but on level of difficulty. You need to explain how the disease impacts your ability to wait in lines or crowds

 

[Lilsia]

After reopening, fewer people were going to the parks. I bet even fewer people with disabilities were going because COVID was incredibly dangerous for them (People with immune system issues, people who could not tolerate wearing a mask, etc.) We went two summers ago - the parks felt pretty empty; we used DAS for some attractions, but a lot of standby queues were very manageable for me. I don't think you can use that time frame for an accurate ratio.

Well the argument was that the LL lines are busy because of DAS abuse. I went right before they instituted Genie+ and a couple of months after. The crowds were about the same but the LL line was huge after Genie+, of course. And I don't know why you would assume that people who use DAS have some kind of immune system issues. What percentage do you think actually have that medical condition? It comes down to the LL are long because they sell too many Genie+. This is something that Disney themselves have acknowledged. Not because there are thousands of people abusing DAS. If anything, you should have issues with that statement. Considering that not only is there no proof of it, it also fails the common sense test.

 

[DisneyOma]

Well the argument was that the LL lines are busy because of DAS abuse. I went right before they instituted Genie+ and a couple of months after. The crowds were about the same but the LL line was huge after Genie+, of course. And I don't know why you would assume that people who use DAS have some kind of immune system issues. What percentage do you think actually have that medical condition? It comes down to the LL are long because they sell too many Genie+. This is something that Disney themselves have acknowledged. Not because there are thousands of people abusing DAS. If anything, you should have issues with that statement. Considering that not only is there no proof of it, it also fails the common sense test.

I was not rebutting the length of LL and genie+, I was stating that using the number of guests accessing the old FP+ queues when neither FP+ nor Genie was in play, during COVID, was invalid. That was common sense to me.

About 3% of the population has moderate to severe immune issues: https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/what-does-immunocompromised-mean

 

[Jellybean9]

I still don't think that DAS makes up any significant portion of park attendance. After reopening and before they introduced Genie+, there were hardly any people in that line. There was barely even a 5 minute wait at the most even when the parks were really busy.

You can't really compare today to the reopening phase. Not only has park attendance significantly increased but standby lines cruised during those months. There wasn't a huge incentive to cheat when the standby lines (for the most part) were quick. So you have 1) more people in the park, 2) a financial and time incentive to cheat and 3) I don't think the majority of the people at the park during the reopening phase knew that DAS was a thing. Since that period, DAS has been well advertised - whether that is by formal announcements from Disney explaining the new system and the two extra LL's reserved in advance or by word of mouth/social media. I used to listen to the WDW prep podcast but had to stop because for the past year, almost every single trip report has been a DAS group. It's hard to relate or gather tips from a group that has the ability to maximize their time to that extent. Maybe I have a less rosy picture of humanity, but in general I think you're going to experience a lot of poorly behaved individuals in Disney World because they've spent a ton of money.

Regarding the increase of abuse of DAS if a Doctor's note was an option....how would abuse be any higher than it is now? Right now you just have to open your mouth and speak words.

My family was at Hollywood Studios in November and made the mistake of getting in the Minnie Mouse meet line (Red Carpet Dreams) because it was advertised as 50 minutes and there was no LL offered so I assumed it would move quickly. In actuality, it was a 75 minute wait where the children waiting in line sat on the concrete for 10 minutes at a time because the line did not move. As soon as we arrived to the queue, the first DAS group showed up and moved straight to the front. And after that, it was a steady stream (and they've waited 40 minutes because the posted wait time remained 50 minutes the entire time). We finally go to the front of the queue and the cast member asked us the number in our party...when another adult DAS group showed up and got right in front of us. At that point, my 8 year old started crying because she's had to sit there and feel like no matter how long she waits, she's never going to get her turn. Your welcome to think my child is a brat (I don't care) but it is difficult for a young child to understand why she's not getting her chance because a steady stream of adults with invisible disabilities get to go first. It definitely woke me up to realize how many DAS users are in the park.

 

[HopperFan]

I've said this before and I'll say it again: by making "fast passes" an added cost, there are families of disabled persons who could have made visiting the parks work when it was free, because they could make fp+ work for them who no longer can do so without DAS due to the added cost.

Caring for or being a disabled person is incredibly expensive.

So before they may have never needed DAS because their preferred options was already free, but now, they can't afford all of those added costs and need to use DAS.

And before anyone comes with the "well FP+ wasn't guaranteed nearly as many rides as you can get with DAS"

There are numerous disabled people who only visit the parks for a few short hours at a time, and likely found that even the limited number of FP+ times they could have was sufficient.

AGREE^

DS has DAS and began using GAC when he was late teens due to changes in his health (we never used it prior just based on his disability though many do). We always got a pass on entering but FP+ was a better option so we relied heavily on it. When we used FP+ we did get WAY MORE rides than we can get with DAS.

On average we might use the DAS once, maybe twice each day. Now that FP+ is not an option and the paid for service Genie+ is an inferior product to FP+, we do use his DAS a lot more. Add that I think more people are using Genie+ than used FP+ just gauging by the longer LL lines, add the DAS users that now really need it and the DAS users that are trying to skip paying for Genie+ ... our waits once in the line are longer than they've ever been, standby time plus another wait time.

 

[dawnball]

This sounds like a horrible idea for a variety of reasons. What if they are by themselves? How do they meet up with their group?

You meet your group at merge. Most of your party goes through the standby line, and you guess/text when they're almost to merge, then go in through the LL and wait at merge to join your party.

It's not a great solution, but for someone who might only need to dip out of line a few times per day, it's not impossible either.

 

[DLgal]

You can't really compare today to the reopening phase. Not only has park attendance significantly increased but standby lines cruised during those months. There wasn't a huge incentive to cheat when the standby lines (for the most part) were quick. So you have 1) more people in the park, 2) a financial and time incentive to cheat and 3) I don't think the majority of the people at the park during the reopening phase knew that DAS was a thing. Since that period, DAS has been well advertised - whether that is by formal announcements from Disney explaining the new system and the two extra LL's reserved in advance or by word of mouth/social media. I used to listen to the WDW prep podcast but had to stop because for the past year, almost every single trip report has been a DAS group. It's hard to relate or gather tips from a group that has the ability to maximize their time to that extent. Maybe I have a less rosy picture of humanity, but in general I think you're going to experience a lot of poorly behaved individuals in Disney World because they've spent a ton of money.

Regarding the increase of abuse of DAS if a Doctor's note was an option....how would abuse be any higher than it is now? Right now you just have to open your mouth and speak words.

My family was at Hollywood Studios in November and made the mistake of getting in the Minnie Mouse meet line (Red Carpet Dreams) because it was advertised as 50 minutes and there was no LL offered so I assumed it would move quickly. In actuality, it was a 75 minute wait where the children waiting in line sat on the concrete for 10 minutes at a time because the line did not move. As soon as we arrived to the queue, the first DAS group showed up and moved straight to the front. And after that, it was a steady stream (and they've waited 40 minutes because the posted wait time remained 50 minutes the entire time). We finally go to the front of the queue and the cast member asked us the number in our party...when another adult DAS group showed up and got right in front of us. At that point, my 8 year old started crying because she's had to sit there and feel like no matter how long she waits, she's never going to get her turn. Your welcome to think my child is a brat (I don't care) but it is difficult for a young child to understand why she's not getting her chance because a steady stream of adults with invisible disabilities get to go first. It definitely woke me up to realize how many DAS users are in the park.

Since when does DAS work for Character Meets?