5 killed, 25 injured (several critical), in Colorado club mass shooting. And now, less than a week later, another.

[White Cat]

Well, for starters, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert have both used social media to champion the reprehensible idea that gay people=groomers/pedophiles.

The Republican Party of Texas adopted its latest platform to a description of homosexuality as "an abnormal lifestyle choice." The platform also proposes opposition to "all efforts to validate transgender identity."

There's also the entire 'Don't Say Gay' bill nonsense... the press secretary for Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis tweeted that anyone who opposes the bill “is probably a groomer or at least you don’t denounce the grooming of 4-8 year old children.” Targeting the queer community is the GOP's MO lately. Or at least a significant faction of the GOP.

And, while not an elected official, conservative podcast host Jack Posobiec urged his 1.7 million followers to buy T-shirts that say “Boycott Groomers, bring ammo” which incorporated the Disney castle logo and font.

These are just a few examples that came up in a cursory Google search.

If you don't feel that elected leaders in America are saying anti-LGBTQIA+ things and using hateful rhetoric to rile up their base, I can only presume this is because you haven't ever had to worry that you'll be murdered in cold blood for holding your partner's hand in public, or going to dance a few tunes at a local gay bar. I can't go to Pride without clocking all the exits and cover and planning in advance how I will protect my toddler if shots ring out. We shouldn't have to live this way.

Political. Post should be removed and the poster banned.

 

[robinb]

Political. Post should be removed and the poster banned.

You asked for examples and now you call on someone to be banned when they give you what you asked for? That’s an interesting reaction.

 

[Christine]

That's a bit harsh. That poster gave examples of who spouted hateful rhetoric. It was not an argument about political parties. But to be safe, yes, the post could have deleted the names and parties that the hate-speechers were affiliated with.

 

[SirDuff]

That's a bit harsh. That poster gave examples of who spouted hateful rhetoric. It was not an argument about political parties. But to be safe, yes, the post could have deleted the names and parties that the hate-speechers were affiliated with.

And so should have Art’s post which prompted it.

 

[TippyThomas]

Political. Post should be removed and the poster banned.

Quite the trap you laid there.

 

[Christine]

And so should have Art’s post which prompted it.

I'm unsure of who Art is.

 

[SirDuff]

I'm unsure of who Art is.

White Cat has posted under a number of names - including Art. I cannot always keep track, in my mind, he’s always just Art.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Christine]

White Cat has posted under a number of names - including Art. I cannot always keep track, in my mind, he’s always just Art.

Sorry for the confusion.

Got it. I just don't know who this "Art" person is that people mention.

 

[jrmasm]

White Cat has posted under a number of names - including Art. I cannot always keep track, in my mind, he’s always just Art.

Sorry for the confusion.

Isn’t that against the rules too?

 

[LSUmiss]

It's possible that they are claiming this as a hope that it will help them avoid hate crime charges. 'How can it be a hate crime if I myself am a member of the community?' If you have a source that definitively states otherwise, or shows evidence of them living as NB prior to this event, I'd like to see it. They changed their name at one point; one wonders if they made any effort to also declare as non-binary before they were being charged with five counts of murder and five counts of bias-motivated crimes. It's quite possible their attorney advised them in this direction.

ETA: I'm not an expert on Colorado law, but I just read a Colorado resident's comment that a hate crime gets the feds involved, and Colorado has no death penalty, so this makes me even more suspicious of my above suggestion; that this is a ploy to make the hate crime part of it less likely to stand and therefore avoid the death penalty. At least one acquaintance of theirs has also said that they regularly used gay slurs, and I don't think anyone who would do that could be considered to be 'inside the community', in the sense of having an affinity and kinship for a community.

Either way, even when someone 'within' the community attacks the community, it's often driven or at least encouraged by the self-loathing caused by the repression or recrimination of that community by those outside it.

That’s what I suspect too.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Women have mental health issues too but never seem to be mass shooters.

 

[VandVsmama]

This has a pretty thorough overview of some information on the matter.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/11/21/colorado-springs-qbar-shooter/

 

[Dan Murphy]

Women have mental health issues too but never seem to be mass shooters.

This link gives a pretty good breakdown on many facets of US mass killings over the past 16 years. It's sad that something so heinous is prevelant enough to warrant analysis.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/g...ngs-database-us-events-since-2006/9705311002/

 

[Pink Partridge]

It's called white privilege.

Can we stop with this?

Darell Brooks had an extensive criminal record dating back to 1999 before he murdered six people. Why was he loose on the streets? He should have been jailed. Just as this piece of garbage Anderson Lee Aldrich should have been jailed. Just as many horrible people from ALL races and walks of life should be jailed.

We need to stop making it a race baiting situation.

Also, if your "mental health" issues make you kill others, you are not fit for society.

Now reading that Andre Bing (the monster that shot his co-workers at Wal Mart last night) has been threatening retaliation for a while now. He also was mentally ill saying the government was watching him. But I imagine being mentally ill is protected class and there was no way he could have been fired from his job. When will this all end?

 

[Christine]

Can we stop with this?

Darell Brooks had an extensive criminal record dating back to 1999 before he murdered six people. Why was he loose on the streets? He should have been jailed. Just as this piece of garbage Anderson Lee Aldrich should have been jailed. Just as many horrible people from ALL races and walks of life should be jailed.

We need to stop making it a race baiting situation.

Also, if your "mental health" issues make you kill others, you are not fit for society.

Now reading that Andre Bing (the monster that shot his co-workers at Wal Mart last night) has been threatening retaliation for a while now. He also was mentally ill saying the government was watching him. But I imagine being mentally ill is protected class and there was no way he could have been fired from his job. When will this all end?

This was the same issue with Aaron Alexis at the Navy Yard shooting (my workplace). He was schizophrenic, paranoid, delusional, thought the government was out to get him. It then spilled over to menacing behavior towards other people but never quite enough that it was actionable. But everyone, include his employer, knew he was off and they did nothing. People do NOT want to make those claims and ruin someone's entire life, which it sort of does. You can be fired for this stuff and he should have been. In fact, I believe this employer was being sued for negliance by the surviving families. But there were many other times where his behavior was ignored, even by the military, because nobody seems to be able to deal with mental illness such as this in adults that do not want or accept treatment. All the laws are gone to institutionalize someone against their will. It's just a sad, sad situation and it takes people getting killed and them being killed to stop just that one person.

 

[GreatLakes]

I'm suspicious of the non-binary claim as well but there isn't really any "proof" one way or another. Even if there is no history of his being out as non-binary he wouldn't be the first person that wasn't public about it.

 

[dez1978]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/22/us/colorado-suspect-background-aldrich-invs/index.html

So based on the information in this article, I think people shouldn't be so quick to jump to "its a religous nut, neo nazi hate crime!" I'm not discounting that it may have been a hate crime either. But reading the articles I've seen so far, there is nothing to back up the statements implying that it was a politically or religously based driven crime. It appears to me that he has a family history of mental illness, he was bullied and didn't have a great childhood and probably has a mental illness as well. That does not make the situation any less horrific by any means. But I'd guess this was spurred by an untreated mental illness vs being a hate crime. Heck it could be both, but honestly, I'm so tired it being just a knee jerk reaction to blame politics or religion.

Having worked in a place where people like this end up at, both on the prison side and the mental health side, I've seen so many people who've committed awful crimes while untreated and in the middle of an episode. And when they are medicated and back to themselves, they are horrified at what they'd done, because that isn't who they want to be at all. And those behaviors or actions while in a psychotic episode are not anything they'd have chosen to do when they are "normal" Obviously this isn't the case for everyone, there are plenty of sociopaths who have no remorse or empathy for the things they did, I've worked with them as well.

Having said all of that, I hope that one day our system can be fixed, and that people can get the help they need before they do something like this. I also hope that someday our criminal justice system gets fixed so that those who were wrongfully convicted don't have to fight for decades to get the chance to get out, and that people who have committed henious crimes get the sentence they deserve. Too often the system is more about a conviction than actual justice.

 

[Christine]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/22/us/colorado-suspect-background-aldrich-invs/index.html

So based on the information in this article, I think people shouldn't be so quick to jump to "its a religous nut, neo nazi hate crime!" I'm not discounting that it may have been a hate crime either. But reading the articles I've seen so far, there is nothing to back up the statements implying that it was a politically or religously based driven crime. It appears to me that he has a family history of mental illness, he was bullied and didn't have a great childhood and probably has a mental illness as well. That does not make the situation any less horrific by any means. But I'd guess this was spurred by an untreated mental illness vs being a hate crime. Heck it could be both, but honestly, I'm so tired it being just a knee jerk reaction to blame politics or religion.

Having worked in a place where people like this end up at, both on the prison side and the mental health side, I've seen so many people who've committed awful crimes while untreated and in the middle of an episode. And when they are medicated and back to themselves, they are horrified at what they'd done, because that isn't who they want to be at all. And those behaviors or actions while in a psychotic episode are not anything they'd have chosen to do when they are "normal" Obviously this isn't the case for everyone, there are plenty of sociopaths who have no remorse or empathy for the things they did, I've worked with them as well.

Having said all of that, I hope that one day our system can be fixed, and that people can get the help they need before they do something like this. I also hope that someday our criminal justice system gets fixed so that those who were wrongfully convicted don't have to fight for decades to get the chance to get out, and that people who have committed henious crimes get the sentence they deserve. Too often the system is more about a conviction than actual justice.

I suppose it's possible but in order for me not to believe he was targeting a particular community of people, you'd have to show me that him going to Club Q was a real matter of convenience for him over choice of venue.

 

[dreamer17555]

There is an interview with the CO shooters dad where he is relieved that his son is not gay- murder apparently does not faze him but he expresses relief that he has been assured that his son is not gay. Mother stated son changed name due to embarrassment of father having done adult films and been on the show Intervention. I do not buy this non binary so not a hate crime at all.

Link to news interview:
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/l...-out/509-6c4ad66e-35ef-41a5-9255-bca31cea3a73

 

[GreatLakes]

There is an interview with the CO shooters dad where he is relieved that his son is not gay- murder apparently does not faze him but he expresses relief that he has been assured that his son is not gay. Mother stated son changed name due to embarrassment of father having done adult films and been on the show Intervention. I do not buy this non binary so not a hate crime at all.

Link to news interview:
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/l...-out/509-6c4ad66e-35ef-41a5-9255-bca31cea3a73

The counter point to this is being in a family so stringently anti-gay would cause a lot of mental health issues if the shooter started to realize he was anything other than straight.

I have zero idea if that is the case, and it isn't anything that would negate the damage, but it is something every parent should consciously think about. I have a kindergartener and have no idea what he will be as he ages but no way would I do anything to make him think I wouldn't love him no matter who or what he is.