I have no issue with people being happy/excited about their Riviera purchase. I was close to being one of those people for a lot of the same reasons; beautiful resort, 50 year value proposition, 2042, wife, etc., but when posters talk about how Riviera is a great purchase because other timeshare resort properties are worn down, or the idea that Riviera is in fact a better, future-proofed location than BWV/BCV, or the way you’ve spent pages upon pages with all sorts of financial gymnastics to argue that Riviera is comparably priced to BWV, I start to get the sense that ownership is coloring subjectivity.
And when there are biased perspectives in any direction, whether it’s a starry-eyed Riviera owner or an incensed anti-resale-restriction owner, we should all hope there will be dissenting voices that will provide some measure of balance to that.
To be fair to the OP they implied they understood resorts would wear down and suggested at that point they will sell their resort (BLT so I extended their logic in that they eventually believe Riviera will get there) and buy whatever is new at the time. I personally took the highlighted statement below to suggest that. Also to the OP's defense they aren't wrong DVC was kind of lax on the refurbishment of it's rooms: OKW's original redo, BRV refresh, BWV/BCV is significantly under quality vs SSR current redo. So like the OP (I originally wanted BCV) but decided against adding on once I stayed in the room and realized it was a ways away from a Hard Goods refresh but was really worn and not well taken care of (though I found BWV to be a little worn but that management did a better job of maintaining).I too am unclear on how RIviera, as a timeshare property likely to run at 99% occupancy rates, will somehow avoid the wear and tear seen at every other DVC property. I am unclear where/how Disney have said RIviera will be on a faster refurbishment schedule than any other property (DVC or non!) that they own.
If you want a HS/EP resort with a long contract, just own that, but don't delude yourself that anything but the four walls isn't subject to wear, tear and even change.
To say these resorts are tired is an understatement. The bathrooms need full gutting. The soft goods do their best to cover what is inevitable. I guess you can only paint so many times before you need to redo the trim, walls, etc. I guess this is the life of a timeshare and eventually BLT will end up in the same spot. Perhaps our expectations for timeshares are too high? I can see us selling BLT when the condition deteriorates to this level and will buy into a newer MK DVC when the time comes…
In 25 years, BWV/BCV 2.0 will be coming online (assuming we are not all underwater), and they'll have point charts and buy in costs that will reflect their new status. While it's true that a lot of the Riviera-lovers are in love with the newness of the resort, there are a few resort- and room- specific touches that are design-based and not just new paint/carpet related (although the new paint/carpet are nice). For one, I think (hope) that the murphy beds are the wave of the future. They are SO much more comfortable than the sofa beds. Whatever issues they were having with them seem to have been cleared up at RIV, although SSR still seems to be having issues.
The MK monorails opened in 1971 - that's almost 50 years ago. The other thing is that gondolas have been in use in urban areas around the world and in ski resorts for many many years too, whereas monorails are a lot less common. I've seen the updating at ski resort gondolas and I think it is possible to keep those running smoothly for a longer period of time. My kids would love to just ride the skyliner over and over again.
There are some things that I believe are superior, that are design-based rather than just "new materials." Here's just a few off the top of my head (some I've described in other posts):
1. Having 2 banks of elevators - one for each wing, a little way off from the lobby. Most of the public areas on 1 and 2, so this helps keep the casual guests using the stairs and also splits up the population using the elevators. Similar to the 2 banks at BLT, compare to the single bank right off the lobby at Contemporary that everyone with a stroller needs to use. At the Contemporary we usually have to wait for a few elevators before we can get on to the elevator with a stroller or a scooter. You can get to either pool without having to walk through the lobby (I'm looking at you, BCV).
2. One wing is more convenient to the Skyliner, one is more convenient to the feature pool and restaurants and "backyard." Again, you can choose based on which matters more to you, and arguably families with kids might choose to be closer to the pools while the F&W and festivals crowds might prefer to be closer to the Skyliner.
3. The "backyard" is gorgeous and laid out very well. The way the resort is laid out, it invites guests to walk around and spend time there, there's a bocce ball court and lots of seating where you can eat outside after getting your Primo Piatto order, or just hang out and enjoy the view.
4. The non-feature pool is long enough for real laps. Other than the Swolphin lap pools, this is the only place I'm aware where you can swim laps on Disney property.
5. You can access all the restaurants, skyliner and bus without being in the rain.
6. Having the front entrance on 2 and the backyard entrance on 1 - also tends to split the crowds. It's ok that the lobby is on the small side because most of the time you aren't going through the lobby if you're staying there. People coming in from cars and buses will enter on 2, people coming in from the skyliner will enter on 1 - and there are multiple doors to enter on 1, depending on whether you're going to your room or a restaurant.
7. In the rooms - the murphy beds. So much more comfortable. And the murphy in the 1BR LR is a curved couch, AND there's chairs, so there's still seating in the living room even when the bed is down. On either side of the murphy bed when you pull it down, there's little cubbies and shelves where you can plug in your devices, keep a glass of water, put your glasses and a book, etc.
8. More storage. We were at VGF in a 1br before moving to RIV and although the hallways are a little narrower, there is a real coat closet in the hall where the vacuum, high chair and pack and play sit, and we kept our owner's locker in there. The VGF mbr had a walk in closet, and the RIV mbr closet is smaller, but it has shelves, which I found very useful. Ditto with the bathrooms and the kitchen - shelves galore. There's a row of hooks for coats and ponchos when you first walk in, and a small shelf where we kept our magicbands. There's space under the bed to stick empty suitcases. There's more storage in the dresser.
9. Not sure this will be done on a soft goods refurb in other resorts, and surely in 10 years this will seem dated as well, but the smart TVs have a few Disney shows and movies on demand, and you can screen cast Disney+ from your phone or ipad. You can screen cast any chrome-enabled (?) app, which for us is Disney+. We have a smart TV from 2011 at home, and we can't even do this so easily.
I have no issue with people being happy/excited about their Riviera purchase. I was close to being one of those people for a lot of the same reasons; beautiful resort, 50 year value proposition, 2042, wife, etc., but when posters talk about how Riviera is a great purchase because other timeshare resort properties are worn down, or the idea that Riviera is in fact a better, future-proofed location than BWV/BCV, or the way you’ve spent pages upon pages with all sorts of financial gymnastics to argue that Riviera is comparably priced to BWV, I start to get the sense that ownership is coloring subjectivity.
And when there are biased perspectives in any direction, whether it’s a starry-eyed Riviera owner or an incensed anti-resale-restriction owner, we should all hope there will be dissenting voices that will provide some measure of balance to that.
HAHA, my DH is a runner and a swimmer, and I am a swimmer and don't run, so the pool was top of mind for me. He did notice the running trail map as we were trying to decide whether we'd want to walk to the CBR skyliner station on HS days.These are all really excellent and well thought out bullet points. Your post reassures me more about our purchase. I would add to this the larger rooms (except the tower studios), more outlets & USB ports, and the walking/running trail around the lake, which I haven’t seen anyone mention, but really liked when we stayed at Carribean Beach, years ago.
We really love the walkability of Beach Club and Boardwalk but not in love with the rooms.
To the OP: Congratulations and welcome home! We also own at BLT and VGF, and had actually tried to buy both/either BCV and BWV resale in the past. We did spend a good amount of time our last few days on the boardwalk, enjoying the atmosphere. Like Sandisw, we much prefer walking and are thrilled we will soon be able to do it from BLT *and* VGF. Although the Skyliner was down a few times during our stay, we did use it quite a bit and on balance I think it's a fair trade for not being able to walk - I wouldn't say one is better than the other, because the Skyliner is like another ride when you're on it - my kids LOVE it, and it's certainly preferable over walking in a downpour, which I have also done. So, trying to be as objective as possible, I think that transportation is a wash for us because there are benefits to the Skyliner that make it actually enjoyable.
HAHA, my DH is a runner and a swimmer, and I am a swimmer and don't run, so the pool was top of mind for me. He did notice the running trail map as we were trying to decide whether we'd want to walk to the CBR skyliner station on HS days.
The walking to Epcot was about 5/6 minutes from our room to the International Gateway. I think the walk to HS was 15 minutes. We took the boat also.
I’m so glad you mentioned the lap-swimmability of the pool! I’m a swimmer and though I don’t seem to find much time for the pool at WDW, this is also great to know.
Glad you timed these - psychologically, walking always seems faster, but the difference is negligible. My timed trips to/from IG to Riviera were 8-9 minutes, and between RIV and HS, even including standing in line at CBR to transfer, ranged from 13-20 minutes. It's true that walking is more exercise and you only need to rely on your own 2 feet, but Skyliner has its benefits too. (Compare to the boats - while charming, they are SO SLOW.)
We have a lot of Marriott points, and had previously been doing split stays at the Swolphin JUST so we could do laps a couple times during our stays. And after owning DVC, we are trying to slow down our visits and not be park commandos. Having a big pool (the lifeguard had to ask, they said it was "76 feet") is an added incentive to building in more resort time. Also that pool opens at 7am.
Which reminds me - Riviera also has a well laid out fitness center that is centrally located! To be fair, I've not seen the inside of any "Disney" fitness center other than the one at Swolphin to compare, but part of that is they are always located somewhere out of the way.
I think there would be a lot more love on the Dis for Riviera if it wasn't for the new restrictions on resale.
Many good points but again, someone is looking at things now and not in 25 years
Just do not think it’s necessary when someone is simply sharing what made them buy, especially when it comes to RIVera over BCV/BWV.
There are some things that I believe are superior, that are design-based rather than just "new materials." Here's just a few off the top of my head (some I've described in other posts):
1. Having 2 banks of elevators - one for each wing, a little way off from the lobby. Most of the public areas on 1 and 2, so this helps keep the casual guests using the stairs and also splits up the population using the elevators. Similar to the 2 banks at BLT, compare to the single bank right off the lobby at Contemporary that everyone with a stroller needs to use. At the Contemporary we usually have to wait for a few elevators before we can get on to the elevator with a stroller or a scooter. You can get to either pool without having to walk through the lobby (I'm looking at you, BCV).
2. One wing is more convenient to the Skyliner, one is more convenient to the feature pool and restaurants and "backyard." Again, you can choose based on which matters more to you, and arguably families with kids might choose to be closer to the pools while the F&W and festivals crowds might prefer to be closer to the Skyliner.
3. The "backyard" is gorgeous and laid out very well. The way the resort is laid out, it invites guests to walk around and spend time there, there's a bocce ball court and lots of seating where you can eat outside after getting your Primo Piatto order, or just hang out and enjoy the view.
4. The non-feature pool is long enough for real laps. Other than the Swolphin lap pools, this is the only place I'm aware where you can swim laps on Disney property.
5. You can access all the restaurants, skyliner and bus without being in the rain.
6. Having the front entrance on 2 and the backyard entrance on 1 - also tends to split the crowds. It's ok that the lobby is on the small side because most of the time you aren't going through the lobby if you're staying there. People coming in from cars and buses will enter on 2, people coming in from the skyliner will enter on 1 - and there are multiple doors to enter on 1, depending on whether you're going to your room or a restaurant.
7. In the rooms - the murphy beds. So much more comfortable. And the murphy in the 1BR LR is a curved couch, AND there's chairs, so there's still seating in the living room even when the bed is down. On either side of the murphy bed when you pull it down, there's little cubbies and shelves where you can plug in your devices, keep a glass of water, put your glasses and a book, etc.
8. More storage. We were at VGF in a 1br before moving to RIV and although the hallways are a little narrower, there is a real coat closet in the hall where the vacuum, high chair and pack and play sit, and we kept our owner's locker in there. The VGF mbr had a walk in closet, and the RIV mbr closet is smaller, but it has shelves, which I found very useful. Ditto with the bathrooms and the kitchen - shelves galore. There's a row of hooks for coats and ponchos when you first walk in, and a small shelf where we kept our magicbands. There's space under the bed to stick empty suitcases. There's more storage in the dresser.
9. Not sure this will be done on a soft goods refurb in other resorts, and surely in 10 years this will seem dated as well, but the smart TVs have a few Disney shows and movies on demand, and you can screen cast Disney+ from your phone or ipad. You can screen cast any chrome-enabled (?) app, which for us is Disney+. We have a smart TV from 2011 at home, and we can't even do this so easily.
I guess I don't get your list or how this resort is superior for it when others have what you are describing?
- Elevators? I mean isn't multiple elevator banks pretty much in every resort? Boardwalk as an example has Elevators on both sides of the lobby. Then you have Animal Kingdom with like 40 banks it seems haha.
- Not sure how the wings is superior? I understand its nice but superior to what as an example? Kidani has one side near transportation and otherside closer to pool. Same with Boardwalk having areas closer to pool, community hall, walking to Epcot or HS, or boats.
- "Backyard" layout again lets look at Boardwalk with well the boardwalk/entertainment or AKV which has a savannah.
- Lap pool so this is the first one you brought up that is an actual positive if true, don't swim laps so no clue.
- Not being outside would be similar to AKV where everything is covered or indoors.
- Entrance? I mean if you are staying at BWV you are not going to for sure go through the lobby. The busses you can cut a couple different ways, the boats the same, or if walk to HS/catch boat at Swolphin you are going to be going in another direction.
- Murphy beds? I mean they can add these everywhere when they do a refresh if they wanted.
- Storage would be a good point. Although out of your list only the coat closet couldn't be changed with a refresh elsewhere (but don't they already have closests elsewhere too). Beds that you can put luggage under, adding some shelves, or a hook at the front door is a fairly simple update if they find they want to add it elsewhere.
- Smart TV apps I would suspect would be added anywhere they replace all the TVs. Casting, built in catalog of movies, and built in MDE are things I would expect anytime they update the TVs at this point.
Maybe I misunderstood your list but you made it seem that these things were design elements that could not or are not replicated elsewhere? The only piece that seems truly independent would be the Lap Pool, coat closet (but don't most rooms have a main closet), and then possibly the elevators piece.
Correct me if I misunderstood something but your list seemed like it was trying to say RIV was superior because Disney now designed all this stuff in to Riveria that other resorts don't have.
Wow. People really see what they want to see. I pointed out some positive points about RIV that might not have been noticed by someone who hadn't spent a few days staying there and trying the facilities. I was careful NOT to use the word "superior" or imply that one resort is superior to another since that implies that we all value the same factors in the same way. Some of those points are ones that I feel are superior to other DVC resorts (the smart TVs, for example); others, like the layout of the resort, wouldn't be apparent unless you were actively using different features of the resort. It was also meant to be a counterpoint to the "lobby is too small" comments - that the way the resort is laid out for flow, the lobby doesn't need to be large or grand, because I think the backyard is intended to be more of a gathering/hanging out place.
Sandi, the only way to replicate your situation is to do exactly what you did. Sell your current resort to lower the Riivera cost and then look at what your stay options are after the fact. To compare Riviera SV to BWV Garden view requires 1) being a Riviera owner to be able to book a SV and 2) not being a BWV owner forcing a GV booking. In that situation, you're right. It's not a bank breaking situation.Let me clarify one point, I shared personal examples that my staying at RIV is comparable to staying at BWV and it was in response to a post that stated RIV was double the point cost all the time,
Please don’t put words in my mouth that I never said. I have never said point costs are not higher at RIV, but only that if you have to choose between BCV or BWV garden vs. RIV SV, you won’t be breaking the bank on every trip. Anyone forced to stay preferred view all the time will, but since owners have a chance at SV, it changes the picture.
OP, so excited for you and your new purchase. It will give you a lot of years of wonderful trips!
I would say though Riviera does provide the unique situation in that a new buyer could purchase a GW in a standard studio and it being advantageous (guarantees that standard room) over owning BWV where a standard studio isn't guaranteed (to mitigate the exact point above which is true). For the first time GW now qualify for incentives so could be a good choice to lower that spread between Riviera and BWV to a manageable level if the purchaser traveled the same week usually. They could try and grab the week themselves and get back the 10% premium (which for some weeks is gone already since they haven't adjusted the GW costs yet) but if unsuccessful they still get the room.Sandi, the only way to replicate your situation is to do exactly what you did. Sell your current resort to lower the Riivera cost and then look at what your stay options are after the fact. To compare Riviera SV to BWV Garden view requires 1) being a Riviera owner to be able to book a SV and 2) not being a BWV owner forcing a GV booking. In that situation, you're right. It's not a bank breaking situation.
Sandi, the only way to replicate your situation is to do exactly what you did. Sell your current resort to lower the Riivera cost and then look at what your stay options are after the fact. To compare Riviera SV to BWV Garden view requires 1) being a Riviera owner to be able to book a SV and 2) not being a BWV owner forcing a GV booking. In that situation, you're right. It's not a bank breaking situation.
What that situation does do is ignore the fact that you had access to BWV SV. You had the points in your ownership that would've cost you zero dollars more to book a room.
So essentially, your costs are actually MUCH higher now staying at the Riviera than it were if you continued to stay at BWV on your previous contract.
What that statement doesn't take into account are the details of your exact situation. Riviera offered an opportunity for you to share Disney ownership with your kids in a way that will outlive your time at Disney. It doesn't take into consideration that you are staying at a resort that you consider to be much more convenient with your new mobility needs. It doesn't take into account that you consider the move an upgrade in terms of resort facilities. All of those are great reasons to own.
But instead you elected to go the route of comparing rates to justify the additional costs incurred to suggest to anyone coming across the boards that it's not costing you that much more to stay at Riviera than at BWV and that simply is not true.
Again, I have a dozen reasons why I would probably be a very happy owner at Riviera, not least of which is letting go of the notion that the resort is emblematic of the future of Disney's timeshare model and the distrust with Disney that such a business decision engenders. But describing it as a comparable stay at BWV is misguided, if not disingenuous, even in your situation.
And when there are biased perspectives in any direction, whether it’s a starry-eyed Riviera owner or an incensed anti-resale-restriction owner, we should all hope there will be dissenting voices that will provide some measure of balance to that.