Anyone else feeling nervous about these Boeing issues?

[georgina]

Yes I am always a bit nervous, and somewhat more now. When DH and I are traveling together I always leave our wills out on the bed so the kids can find them easily! But it doesn't keep me from flying, either in the US or across the Atlantic. Alcohol helps.

 

[Captain UP]

I did some checking:

the last fatality on a commercial flight in the US (due to an incident with the aircraft) was in 2018.

The last time more than one person was killed during a commercial flight incident in the US was in 2013- and it was pilot error.

The last time there was a complete loss of a commercial jet over US soil was 2001- 23 years ago (believe it or not- that was NOT 9/11. There was a commercial air crash in New York a month later!)

For perspective, since 2001, about 1 MILLION Americans have been killed in automobile accidents.

 

[katallo]

I know I feel safer flying than driving. Especially being on the roads today. But, we are nervous. We fly the 737 MAX in April. UGH The amazing thing is the cost has tripled in the last week. BWI to MCO has never been $391.00.

 

[georgina]

I did some checking:

the last fatality on a commercial flight in the US (due to an incident with the aircraft) was in 2018.

The last time more than one person was killed during a commercial flight incident in the US was in 2013- and it was pilot error.

The last time there was a complete loss of a commercial jet over US soil was 2001- 23 years ago (believe it or not- that was NOT 9/11. There was a commercial air crash in New York a month later!)

For perspective, since 2001, about 1 MILLION Americans have been killed in automobile accidents.

You can quote all the statistics you want, but it doesn't mean the chances are zero. I happen to know someone who was killed in a commercial plane crash in the US. It can happen. There have been some close calls (miracle on the Hudson?) I will always be nervous, mostly during takeoff and landing, until we are safely on the ground again.

 

[Captain UP]

You can quote all the statistics you want, but it doesn't mean the chances are zero. I happen to know someone who was killed in a commercial plane crash in the US. It can happen. There have been some close calls (miracle on the Hudson?) I will always be nervous, mostly during takeoff and landing, until we are safely on the ground again.

I understand this. Totally. But the fact is life is not risk free. Our job is to minimize risk, not eliminate it.

It is sort of fascinating to me though that we will fly all the way to Orlando white-knuckling the arm rest, but then totally calmly get in a car driven by a stranger and drive 30 miles on I 4.

 

[Genie+]

This week started out very windy and our area is full of trees. Traveling through that made me more concerned than flying.

Boeing. IF there is an increased risk, it’s increased from an already puny risk. What’s a little less puny?

If I choose to start flying in different craft how can I be certain there’s not unknown potential risk there as well.

So far not enough has happened to make me actively avoid boeing or flying.

 

[japanese maple]

If it makes people feel safer to change, no harm done.
If people feel safe and don't want to change, no harm done.

 

[eandt]

I am a terrified flyer to begin with, and all of these Boeing issues, combined with the whistleblower incident, are making me a little more terrified. Just wondering if anyone else is feeling a little nervous?

Yep … haven’t flown since May 1999 due to my knowledge of certain events …. Have an upcoming flight that I am seriously considering bailing on

 

[gottalovepluto]

I could switch to a later morning flight which is on the Airbus A321neo, which is a nicer plane. We would be leaving out of MCO at 9:50 instead of 7:45. Later flights make me a bit nervous of delays, but I looked at flight history and that seems to be a pretty on-time flight. Plus I like the airbus better.

I decided to switch. Same price, better plane.

That's nice you got the same price for a nicer plane.

For folks taking this route do remember equipment swaps happen all the time, very common. If you pay extra money for a non-Boeing plane you are not entitled to a refund from the airline if they swap out the aircraft for a Boeing plane. Last time I had an equipment swap was at MCO and it was literally right before we boarded the plane. They changed our gate and brought a different plane out of storage so if your airline flies Boeings be mentally prepared you might still end up on one despite your efforts.

 

[japanese maple]

That's nice you got the same price for a nicer plane.

For folks taking this route do remember equipment swaps happen all the time, very common. If you pay extra money for a non-Boeing plane you are not entitled to a refund from the airline if they swap out the aircraft for a Boeing plane. Last time I had an equipment swap was at MCO and it was literally right before we boarded the plane. They changed our gate and brought a different plane out of storage so if your airline flies Boeings be mentally prepared you might still end up on one despite your efforts.

I'm really not that pressed about it. Mostly we changed for the later time.

 

[kylenne]

Personally I'm not nervous because I exclusively fly JetBlue and their entire fleet is Airbus with the exception of the short hop routes, which are Embraers (and I don't fly those routes). But I would never get on any of these newer Boeing planes.

I’m sure they have been scrutinized thoroughly…The problem is, when you have cut corners and costs on the design.

Their design was/is flawed and the fix is a software bandaid. They didn’t have time to redesign the engines, wings, or body because it’s too expensive, requires additional certification, and the competitor is ahead! Won’t someone think of the share price?! That is the problem.

They would do piecemeal fixes and downplay design flaws rather than come out and essentially recall an entire line. I’m sure they wish they could do what Kia is doing: “sorry, we built it wrong, but here: you can BUY a kit and fix it yourself.”

I work for a similarly profit driven company and we have weekly calls where managers need to justify a discrepancy in estimates: “Oh no! We’re off by $500 (<.1%) because Janet only took 2 days of vacation instead of 3! Whew, good thing it’s a 5 week month, the numbers should still look good!”

The shareholders must be appeased at all costs…and I mean all costs.

My cousin has worked for Boeing's commercial division for almost 30 years and after a lot of discussions I'm convinced that their current woes are entirely down to the company culture changing with the McDonnell Douglas merger. Boeing never had these kinds of issues before because engineers were leading the way and not the bean counters. After the merger, the profit driven penny pinching corner cutting mentality came from McDs. Talk to current and former employees and it's very obvious where the problems are and that will not change without government intervention imo. In the meantime I'm sticking with Airbus. IIRC Delta has orders for the 737 Max but they are still unfulfilled.

 

[DisneyConvert]

And to think I complained after flying home from Vancouver earlier this week -- two legs on 737-800/900's --definitely older equipment.

Older, but darn reliable. Silly me.

 

[beccasmom]

Tell you the truth American's fares are about on par with Southwest into Florida and they fly Airbus on my routes. Whereas Southwest still uses Max.

This is true for us from Philly. And SWA mostly has only one non-stop in each direction, if that. The last time we flew SWA (2020 or 2021?), the seats on the Boeing Max were extremely uncomfortable to boot. The Airbus jets are a vast improvement IMO.

 

[Captain UP]

UPDATE:

The LATAM flight (a Boeing 787) that nose-dived and injured 50 people was 100% cockpit error. A switch was bumped that overrode the auto pilot- the switch is supposed to be covered at all times and was left open.

 

[tony67]

UPDATE:

The LATAM flight (a Boeing 787) that nose-dived and injured 50 people was 100% cockpit error. A switch was bumped that overrode the auto pilot- the switch is supposed to be covered at all times and was left open.

Honestly I am way more concerned about the people factor than the mechanical.

I think way more can go wrong with people than planes.
From mistakes, to bad days, mental breakdowns to people who may not be qualified...

The incident I had when the plane dropped for several seconds - which as I understand means a very big drop, it was a very nice day and I suspect the pilots were not really paying attention.

 

[Captain UP]

Honestly I am way more concerned about the people factor than the mechanical.

I think way more can go wrong with people than planes.
From mistakes, to bad days, mental breakdowns to people who may not be qualified...

The incident I had when the plane dropped for several seconds - which as I understand means a very big drop, it was a very nice day and I suspect the pilots were not really paying attention.

Totally agreed. Human error is a FAR bigger factor in most incidents than mechanics- both flying and driving.

If you remember a few years back, there was one car brand that supposedly would accelerate when you hit the brake. There were dozens of cases...Except that it turns out EVERY SINGLE ONE of them was driver error- most of the people were seniors who really thought they were hitting the brakes but were in fact hitting the gas.

 

[eandt]

Honestly I am way more concerned about the people factor than the mechanical.

I think way more can go wrong with people than planes.
From mistakes, to bad days, mental breakdowns to people who may not be qualified...

The incident I had when the plane dropped for several seconds - which as I understand means a very big drop, it was a very nice day and I suspect the pilots were not really paying attention.

This should not be happening in any profession

 

[tony67]

This should not be happening in any profession

Well yeah...but that is not reality in my experience.
I don't want to go down that rabbit hole too much - the thread will get shut down.

Ill just say how much did it have to do with the door in the Boeing situation...and spirit AeroSystems for example.
Yes its just speculation.

 

[sam_gordon]

Not concerned. I don't pick a flight based on aircraft. It's purely based on cost and arrival/departure time. As someone mentioned, just because I booked a flight on Airbus hardware, doesn't mean it won't change to Boeing at some point (and vice versa).

 

[Anthony1971]

I thought the consensus was if anyone was seated next to the door plug they would have been killed.

Did I not say not taking away from the issue of the Door Plug and it should have never happened?
However the vast majority of what is labeled as "Boeing issues" are airline maintenance issues and that should be highlighted as that is another issue all together.