Are funerals changing? (Spin off from church issues thread)

[barkley]

“very extended kin” are not financially responsible unless you choose to be.

that was my belief until i came face to face with that california law. in the course of working for dshs in california i had personally processed requests for indigent 'burials' (more often than not cremation b/c the deceased did not qualify for burial) and if the deceased met the financial eligibility the county paid for it. i learned at the time of my family member's death that there was this law on the books and some california counties were very active in enforcement. as it happened the family member passed in the same jurisdiction that our household had handled a couple of previous family member's estates so i reached out to the attorneys there and we learned that 'yes' if the deceased had no living spouse or children then the county would start toggling through siblings, aunts/uncles, first cousins, second...until they identified someone with a degree of kinship (they had identified myself and my sibling very quickly through public records). yes, we could have tried to fight it in court but i was told that the county judges were sympathetic to the state's law on this and the cost of an attorney and travel from out of state would exceed what i could arrange for the least expensive cremation.

 

[HopperFan]

Someone I knew had very little money (had just finished college and started working), when he was tasked with dealing with the sudden death of a relative all by himself. He got the cardboard box, then drove the body himself to the crematorium several hours out of state for cremation, which was the cheapest place he could find. (Sounds like a bad movie, right? ) I think for that, he paid $1400 in its entirety. It was a difficult task, though. I don’t think I’d be up for it. I agree it seems a shame to incinerate a perfectly good (and expensive) casket.

Thankfully it is a growing business and he would not have to go through that, what I consider trauma. Cremation services will pick up the body, do the cremation and can keep that cost under around $1200.

We had a friend who had a son die recently, 50 with kids and a wife. It was a shock and they went full deluxe including pigeons. To be fair they probably were in shock and got sold. Just what a waste of money I am sure the wife could use. You can drop ashes out in the ocean for under $1000

A family member decided to do the "doves" for MIL and I'll just say it was close to becoming a SNL set. I would never do that again. I still think about those birds and wonder if they made it home after what they went through.

This is why I say take someone not as emotionally invested or (like me) cannot be swayed by emotional manipulation. I have not known anyone who has experienced the sudden death of a loved one who hasn’t said they barely remember the days surrounding it or were in a fog. Not a great time to be making possibly large financial decisions. I could not talk my sister out of financing a bigger “better” plaque even though we had a smaller one included covered. As far as I know she never paid it off so now he doesn’t have one at all.

Exactly. My Dad died suddenly at 41, so we took a family friend who walked us (Mom and I) through everything from touring cemeteries and making all the arrangements with the funeral home. Everything was lovely while taking in to account my Mom now had three children to support and cost mattered.

When she passed a few years ago I was the rational voice and we still ended up at $18,000 - the plaque, the casket, the vault, the prep and all the "fees" just add up fast. None of those were optional. I even chose the least expensive metal casket (rose gold and matched my Dad's style). That was after I walked past all the expensive fancy ones to back of room.

Reinforced my decisions.

Funeral home.

Here we can send body direct to cremation service, no funeral home involved. That is what I am choosing.

 

[Kennywood]

For any Costco members who might be purchasing a casket for a loved one, Costco does sell caskets. They're usually thousands of dollars less expensive than those sold by funeral homes. They quality is just as good too.

Costo Caskets

 

[NotUrsula]

Someone mentioned industrial parks ... these facilities are usually not actually full-service "funeral homes", able to handle any and all details of legalities, transport, hosting gatherings and services, etc. They are mostly direct cremation brokers, who will pick up a body locally, take it to a local cremation facility if there isn't one on-site, then box the cremains and have them returned to you. They usually don't do ceremonies, post obituaries, arrange flowers, host visitations, sell caskets other than the cardboard box for transport, arrange for limos to the gravesite, etc; they just handle processing of the remains. For that reason they are a much less expensive alternative. In my city, a cremation handled by a full-service funeral home normally costs about $3K, but a direct cremation can be done for under $800.

Donation to medical schools and the like is not something that can be done after a sudden death unless the deceased had already planned for it (and even then, sometimes the situation stops the donation; things like severe accidents, or certain infectious diseases.) Medical schools always have a rule that remains have to be picked up within so many hours of death, and though the number of hours varies, it is a short window. When my sister died none of us could manage to get to the hospital in time to say goodbye to her; the university sent a contractor to pick her up within 2 hours. The medical school that accepted her donation required that the notarized paperwork be filed with them at least 45 days before death. If you plan to donate, get the paperwork done well in advance (you can cancel if you change your mind), and also have a Plan B lined up in case the cause of death prevents the donation from being accepted.

 

[kanne323]

A lot of people don't see the point in spending $10,000+ for something you use for one day then bury in the ground, even if they can afford it.

It is possible to rent a casket- not sure if that's regional or not, but it's an option here. That can be helpful if having a wake prior to a cremation.

Donation to medical schools and the like is not something that can be done after a sudden death unless the deceased had already planned for it (and even then, sometimes the situation stops the donation; things like severe accidents, or certain infectious diseases.) Medical schools always have a rule that remains have to be picked up within so many hours of death, and though the number of hours varies, it is a short window. When my sister died none of us could manage to get to the hospital in time to say goodbye to her; the university sent a contractor to pick her up within 2 hours. The medical school that accepted her donation required that the notarized paperwork be filed with them at least 45 days before death. If you plan to donate, get the paperwork done well in advance (you can cancel if you change your mind), and also have a Plan B lined up in case the cause of death prevents the donation from being accepted.

Definitely have a plan B. We have a local medical school that does accept donations, but I have seen them refuse at the last minute due to a number of reasons. Body weight is a common block- some people will make the necessary arrangements to donate when they are diagnosed with a condition or entering hospice care, and then by the time they die, they have lost too much weight to qualify for a donation.

I'm a grief counselor working in hospice, so I talk to a lot of people about choices they or their loved ones made. One thing to keep in mind is that funerals, memorial services, celebrations of life, etc. do fulfill a human need for ritual and gathering, which can be really helpful with grief. It doesn't have to be a traditional funeral or service. Maybe it's meeting for a drink to toast a friend's life, or planting a tree in memory of someone. Not saying at all that this fixes grief or makes it go faster or gives closure (nothing does, grief is normal, it takes the time it needs, and it doesn't ever fully end), but ritual is a tool that can be helpful. Even if that ritual is the cousins meeting at Grandma's grave every Thanksgiving to have a discrete paper cup of wine with Gram... I mean... or something like that.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Things haven't changed much in my world with respect to funerals, but that's because everyone who is dying in our orbit are mostly from the Silent Generation and older Baby Boomers who mostly still want the whole shebang. So that's one or two viewings.....some want open casket, some closed. They were all cremated, even my in-laws who are very catholic wanted cremation.

The last person I know who was not cremated was the first person to die that mattered to me.....my maternal grandfather. He died after a sudden illness and a long surgery that he did not survive. He was only 70 and they pumped 73 units of blood into him in an effort to keep him alive during the surgery. He was Irish catholic and wanted the big send-off, which included a few viewings with open casket. He looked *awful*....unrecognizable, and that casket never should have remained open. So, that one probably scarred me a bit.

FIL wants two viewings, open casket, which is what we'll do, but we feel like it's just unnecessary. Funerals are held to honor the dead, but are mostly for the living in my opinion. Especially for those closest to the deceased, and in FIL's case....that will be DH and me. My husband wants to try and talk him out of it, but I advised that he's too old school catholic and at 92, won't change his mind. The next generation in my family will handle things far differently. None of my siblings or their spouses want anything formal at all. None of us are religious, and so I suspect we'll all be cremated and at a later date there will be a "celebration of life" which means we'll all go on vacation somewhere to "sprinkle" whoever it is....wherever they wanted to be sprinkled. That's far more civilized if you ask me .

 

[Turn the Page]

My parents have, thus far, been very practical about such things.

My mother is notorioiusly cheap and several years ago decided she was going to refuse to use our local funeral home (one my family has used for years and the only one in our town) because she thought the owners were snobs and found a crematorium an hour from here that would cremate the remains for a far lower price and made the arrangements and told us no service necessary, if we wanted to have a gathering at the house or something and have it catered we could do that but no need for an elaborate funeral. All that sounded fine.

Then she discovered that if you donate your body to science they will cremate you for free and return the cremains to the family when they are done and she got super excited about what a great option that was. So she sent away to our "local" medical school to ask for more information. Turns out they would cremate the body and return the cremains to the family for free but you have to get the remains to the medical school which is about 5 hours away and that cost more than just cremating her remains ourselves so she decided not to do it. OK, mom. Whatever.

My parents did get divorced last year, after 40 years of marriage, so my dad has been making all the necessary changes to legal paperwork and arrangements and things and he just stuck with the crematorium an hour away and prepaid everything and just told my brother and I where the information was in house for when the time came and we could do whatever we wanted beyond that.

 

[Turn the Page]

Someone mentioned industrial parks ... these facilities are usually not actually full-service "funeral homes", able to handle any and all details of legalities, transport, hosting gatherings and services, etc. They are mostly direct cremation brokers, who will pick up a body locally, take it to a local cremation facility if there isn't one on-site, then box the cremains and have them returned to you. They usually don't do ceremonies, post obituaries, arrange flowers, host visitations, sell caskets other than the cardboard box for transport, arrange for limos to the gravesite, etc; they just handle processing of the remains. For that reason they are a much less expensive alternative. In my city, a cremation handled by a full-service funeral home normally costs about $3K, but a direct cremation can be done for under $800.

Donation to medical schools and the like is not something that can be done after a sudden death unless the deceased had already planned for it (and even then, sometimes the situation stops the donation; things like severe accidents, or certain infectious diseases.) Medical schools always have a rule that remains have to be picked up within so many hours of death, and though the number of hours varies, it is a short window. When my sister died none of us could manage to get to the hospital in time to say goodbye to her; the university sent a contractor to pick her up within 2 hours. The medical school that accepted her donation required that the notarized paperwork be filed with them at least 45 days before death. If you plan to donate, get the paperwork done well in advance (you can cancel if you change your mind), and also have a Plan B lined up in case the cause of death prevents the donation from being accepted.

My understanding is also if you donate to a medical school that means you can't donate your organs. Which makes sense, if you're going to the anatomy lab the budding medical professionals need all the normal items available to learn from but it did always make me question which route would do the most good after I'm gone.

But I suppose various circumstances would affect that choice also.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Given that several here have mentioned donating bodies to medical schools, I just want to make sure that everyone is aware of this story that unfolded earlier this year:

https://www.cnbctv18.com/world/7-ch...ard-medical-school-morgue-report-16981291.htm

https://www.nbcboston.com/investiga...arger-story-in-trading-human-remains/3136374/

If it could happen at the nation’s top medical school, it can happen anywhere. There is a market for human remains.

 

[NotUrsula]

My understanding is also if you donate to a medical school that means you can't donate your organs. Which makes sense, if you're going to the anatomy lab the budding medical professionals need all the normal items available to learn from but it did always make me question which route would do the most good after I'm gone.

But I suppose various circumstances would affect that choice also.

Many schools seem to allow the eyes to be donated, but nothing else. Also, they cannot use bodies that are missing organs for other reasons, so those who have been living organ donors also cannot do it.

Donating is usually the most economical option when it works out. Different schools have individual rules about costs, but as a rule of thumb, private schools can often pay for more of the expenses. My sister and her husband also chose the donor route because it was the most economical, and donated to a private university because they would cover the cost of transport from further away than the state flagship university could. The medical school they donated to did not charge to transport the remains (the distance was about 4 hours, and they contracted with a local ambulance firm to get them to the school as quickly as possible.) This school also does not return the cremains to the family, but they do hold a Service of Gratitude each year for all of that year's donor families. For schools that do return cremains, it's usually a wait of several months to a year before that happens.

 

[mylilnikita]

Both of my parents donated their bodies. I plan to as well but also have a back up in place as other posters up thread mention and o had a close call with my mom that they maybe can’t accept the body.

Compost is a new one.

My relative lived in Florida and was cremated then put into a reef sphere?

 

[jimmymc]

I have also noticed it. Funerals are very expensive, and people are realizing you can get the same comfort from doing a smaller, private event.

 

[elaine amj]

I did not quite want things the usual way. A couple of months before DH passed, we talked extensively about what he wanted. Then a month before I priced stuff out and we got to discuss things like whether a viewing was worth an extra $4k. (He decided no).

The morning after he passed, I called 3 local direct cremation places to get final prices and chose one of them.

I ended up doing a direct cremation in a cardboard box. We had a private family viewing (max 20 ppl). They draped a blanket over the box and I was told it looked fine (I escorted the family to the viewing but did not go see his body).

Then had a open house (without the body) in a church cafe for 2 evenings with a large dinner spread. Then a rather typical service (but it was a memorial service since he had already been cremated) followed by taking everyone to the local fancy buffet.

I ended up spending about $10k - so closer to a typical funeral cost when all was said and done. But the vast majority was on food, which was what DH wanted. He loved hosting and it felt right to give him a grand send off with a feast.

I’m still so pleased with all the decisions we made. I did splurge on the crazy expensive newspaper obituary but I just wanted everyone possible to know.

 

[leebee]

I don't care what they decide to do after I die. I would like to be cremated, although there's a new "cold cremation" where they basically liquify the remains and spread it over a field or in the forest, and that's fine, too. I want my family to do whatever THEY need to do to find comfort in the face of their loss. If they want something private and small, I am fine with that. If they want something more traditional, with visiting hours and a small service, I am fine with that, too. We have no religious affiliations so no need to involve a church. I hope my family (probably just my daughter, maybe husband too) does whatever THEY need to help them deal with the loss. I don't care... I won't be there!