Cancelled cruise - obnoxious CM

[outahere]

Even though I agree that you can catch just about any communicable disease just by just going shopping, to school, etc., we decided to cancel our February 3 day cruise. Having read many threads on the topic here on disboards, we decided it just wasn't worth $2300 to gamble on being ill on vacation, or coming home and being ill afterward. The sad part of this is, that when DW called DCL this morning to cancel, the CM gave her a really hard time, to the point of being pushy and obnoxious. When told we were cancelling because of the virus, his response was a very curt "No one is getting sick on the ships!!" and "There is absolutely no reason to cancel". DW's response to that was "Perhaps you should read disboards and the newspapers, now just credit my credit card!!".

If this is the way DCL is going to allow their people to handle guests who want to cancel, I think it's time for some customer service training, before they lose a lot of people entirely (me included). If we are treated like that again, Disney will lose a customer who has spent thousands of dollars at WDW and DCL (I already refuse to shop at a couple of national chain stores due to very bad treatment in years past).

Climbing off my soapbox now........

 

[hydster]

in the attitude department...may I suggest you read the following Time magazine article???? It was very interesting to me and it may make you re-think your cruise! You may just stay home and get ill just because it is everywhere but I understand not wanting to pay for it! I think if it were me I would go and I certainly can see that you would be irritated with the CM but this article was very enlightening and interesting to me

Here is the link

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101021216-397496,00.html


Whatever decision you made or make I am sure will be the right one...I just hate the thought of you cancelling for something that happens every year this year it has just had more attention! Please dont think I am slamming you because I am not...but I just thought this was interesting!

Heidi

 

[quidam]

Hello outahere,

We did the land-sea package last August and had a terrific time. In September, we booked the first week of March on the Magic, but like you, I am thinking of cancelling it altogether. Some of the details that I have read on this board - which I have found to be very very helpful on our first DCL cruise - are sending a chill down my spine.

Of couse, like you, I understand that the virus is everywhere. But am I willing to pay huge money to be sick or, like 4NANA, quarantined in my cabin for feeling tired - not really.

I understand that there is only a very low percentage of passengers who end up being sick, but this is all I seem to be reading about lately and, therefore, it is all I can think about... Will we or won't we end up being sick or quarantined...

I think I'd rather go to WDW this time and book another cruise at the last minute when all is under control again.

 

[mmouse37]

No excuse for rude CM's....they should be expecting people to be worred about this and I am sure there are quite a few people who have cancelled upcoming cruises. I recently checked our upcoming sailing and all of a sudden there is availability in every category where there was none before!!!

I personally still plan on cruising and washing until the point of dishpan hands...and I am hoping for the best...because I think it is really the luck of the draw if you get the virus or not!!!

MJ

 

[mcnuss]

Do something productive. Call DCL management or write a letter. They cannot know about problems with staff unless you tell them.

 

[Cindyluwho]

I just have to say that after our November 16th cruise I called DCL twice. The first time I spoke with Mike and the second time I spoke with Alan. They were both the most amazing, friendly, helpful guys you could ever speak to on the phone. All of my questions were answered and I just can't say enough good things about them. And after all of the calls they've received lately I was amazed that they both still had a sense of humor. You really do need to notify custer service about the rude CM, Disney doesn't want employees like that working for them any more than you do. Let them know so they can replace the CM with someone more like Mike and Alan.

 

[outahere]

To mcnuss.... the letter is written and will be in the mail tomorrow morning.

I just wanted to let other DISers know that they may encounter a rude CM if they call. And.... I needed to vent a little, since we have never been treated that way by anyone, anywhere at Disney. I did not mean that everyone at Disney is rude. On the contrary, until today, everyone I have ever dealt with has been very friendly and helpful.

To hydster.... thanks for the pointer to the article. I realize this happens every year and that it is not Disney's fault. People get on the ship who have already been exposed to something and bring it with them. Nothing Disney (or any other cruise line) can do about it, except to attempt to keep the ship as sanitary as possible.

To all.... I feel very sorry for 4NANA. From what I've read here on this board, she is not even sick! If I were her, I would have already called my attorney from the ship!

We already have another cruise booked for April, 2004. I think we'll wait it out and see what happens. Until then.... we'll go to
Orlando in February and possibly stay at a WDW resort, for a few days. as a "consolation".

 

[dmadman43]

Orlando in February and possibly stay at a WDW resort, for a few days. as a "consolation".

To be safe then, you might want to consider staying in your room, not eating in the restaurants, not visiting the parks..in short notinteracting with crowds. Wouldn't want to catch the nasty Norwalk virus.

 

[KenP]

To be safe then, you might want to consider staying in your room, not eating in the restaurants, not visiting the parks..in short notinteracting with crowds. Wouldn't want to catch the nasty Norwalk virus.

There is a question of relative risk here. Sure you can get sick anywhere, but you are much more likely to get an infectious disease on a cruise ship as compared to a theme park since at a theme park people are spread out all over the place.

What risk you are willing to undertake is a personal decision. Unfortunately, many people have difficulty estimating relative risk.

 

[taswira]

KenP - I agree that many people have difficulty estimating relative risk. However, the virus is not <I>originating</I> on the ship. Infected passengers (whether showing symptoms yet or not) are bringing it onto the ship, then passing it on to other people. <I>Many</I> of those cruise passengers (DCL and other) visit WDW <I>after</I> their cruise. Since the virus can be contracted by <I>touching</I> something that has been touched by an infected person, and then touching your mouth, nose, eyes or ears, I am afraid I must agree with dmadman43.

But do I think we should all become hermits? No way! We just <I>all</I> need to take extra precautions regarding cleanliness, be considerate of others, and do <I>not</I> mingle with other people if <I>we</I> become ill. But <I>don't</I> stop cruising or visiting WDW because of the "fear factor."

 

[dmfuru]

We can't allow the viruses to win.

 

[outahere]

To be safe then, you might want to consider staying in your room, not eating in the restaurants, not visiting the parks..in short notinteracting with crowds. Wouldn't want to catch the nasty Norwalk virus.

Well..... I guess I'll just have to sit on the balcony of my Contemporary Concierge room (after I disinfect it with all the Lysol I can find at Wal-Mart), have a drink and watch the world go by. At least I'll have plenty of fresh air and the alcohol in the drink should kill that nasty ole virus, if it gets in my glass.

 

[Euphscott]

I watch all the fear with a morbid sense of amusement on here and in the media. Last year on these boards everyone was cancelling cruises and avoiding the water because of sharks.

Has anyone heard of the shark attacks this year? No, but last I read, the numbers are comparable to last year and years prior. The difference? The media has grown tired of that story. This year the media has latched on to "sick" cruise ships.

As with the sharks, this is not a new issue. Cruise ships have dealt with this for years, and will continue. But, next year, we'll have a new fear and worrying over getting sick on a cruise ship will no longer be in vogue.

Get out there (to borrow a tag line from another cruise line), cruise, enjoy vacation and live not in fear. And if you do avoid the cruise ships, thanks for giving me a little more room to stretch out!

 

[Euphscott]

I watch all the fear with a morbid sense of amusement on here and in the media. Last year on these boards everyone was cancelling cruises and avoiding the water because of sharks.

Has anyone heard of the shark attacks this year? No, but last I read, the numbers are comparable to last year and years prior. The difference? The media has grown tired of that story. This year the media has latched on to "sick" cruise ships.

As with the sharks, this is not a new issue. Cruise ships have dealt with this for years, and will continue. But, next year, we'll have a new fear and worrying over getting sick on a cruise ship will no longer be in vogue.

Get out there (to borrow a tag line from another cruise line), cruise, enjoy vacation and live not in fear. And if you do avoid the cruise ships, thanks for giving me a little more room to stretch out!

For the record I just got back from the Carnival Conquest. 200 people were reported sick recently. That means that over 3800 people were quite healthy and wishing vacation was not over!

 

[mcnuss]

However, the virus is not originating on the ship. Infected passengers (whether showing symptoms yet or not) are bringing it onto the ship, then passing it on to other people. Many of those cruise passengers (DCL and other) visit WDW after their cruise. Since the virus can be contracted by touching something that has been touched by an infected person, and then touching your mouth, nose, eyes or ears, I am afraid I must agree with dmadman43.

Taswira - while I agree with you 100% about relative risk, etc... (and I was on the Thanksgiving cruise and would take the chance again given the same set of circumstances), the fact of the matter is that neither the CDC nor DCL has figured out the origination point of the virus, so it is not possible to say for sure that passegers are bringing it on board. Norwalk virus, unlike the common cold, is a food and water-borne illness. It can be spread person-to-person (via unpleasant means, as well as the usual not washing hands problem), but one of the tricky things about Norwalk is that it has a pretty long shelf life, and it spreads very easily because infection can be caused by very small quantities of virus. See below:

This is from the CDC:

Outbreaks of NLV gastroenteritis more frequently affect adults and children >5 years of age. Because of the low infectious dose of the agent (10–100 viral particles can induce symptoms), outbreaks are characterized by a high secondary attack rate. In most documented outbreaks, the incubation period has been reported as 24–48 hours; the average duration of symptoms is 12–60 hours. During an outbreak, >50% of infected persons have symptoms of vomiting, most often in combination with diarrhea. The main source of infection is usually contaminated food or water (9–13), while the usual mode of transmission is direct person-to-person contact with saliva, vomit, or aerosols. Transmission may also occur through contact with contaminated objects and surfaces such as showers, sinks, mats, and floors.

Now of course, this has nothing to do with Rude and Obnoxious CM's, who should absolutely not be allowed to speak to customers the way they did with outahere.

 

[taswira]

Originally posted by mcnuss
the fact of the matter is that neither the CDC nor DCL has figured out the origination point of the virus, so it is not possible to say for sure that passegers are bringing it on board.

It was my understanding that according to the CDC (in one of their earlier announcements), <I>some</I> of the passengers who became ill, on DCL and other cruise lines, did so <I>too soon</I> for them to have caught it onboard. With the cases on ships out of Miami, I heard a report on CNN or MSNBC (can't remember which) by the CDC that they actually tracked <I>several</I> cases of the virus to a particular hotel where many passengers had stayed. They detected Norwalk-like virus <I>at that hotel</I>. Whether it was true, I don't know. That was just what was reported. And remember that it was Holland America who made news with the virus <I>before</I> DCL. The CDC is <I>still</I> saying that people are bringing the virus ON to the ships. However, the biggest point is that whether or not someone shows signs of the virus while onboard, they could still have been infected and get sick a day or two after debarking - - perhaps at resorts and parks?

Still, when it comes right down to it, you can catch this almost <I>anywhere</I>. Passengers who don't head for the theme parks can go home, maybe get sick on the plane, then spread the virus at their hometown airport . . . <B>It is pointless to WORRY about it.</B> None of this has changed <I>my</I> plans. I'm on the Wonder next month and the Magic next October. I'll try to keep clean and be extra careful, but <B>I intend to have a GREAT time as usual!</B>

 

[hydster]

and here is the whole article. I have included the link at the end of this message if anyone is interested to make sure that I didnt "make it up" ...here is the entire cut and paste of the article

Home > Cruise Tips > Demystifying the Myths of Norwalk
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Demystifying the Myths of Norwalk

As the mega-outbreaks of Norwalk Virus wind down (on cruise ships, anyway; the gastrointestinal illness is currently spreading, according to media reports, across an entire North American landscape of schools and hospitals), cruise industry executives tell us that they're still shaking their heads over general confusion about the easily communicable virus. We'll tackle the most common myths we've heard one-at-a-time; following that, for posterity, is an updated version of a question and answer feature we published earlier this month that details more specific facts about Norwalk itself.


"It is not safe to cruise now because of Norwalk Virus."

The epidemiologists at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says that's absolutely untrue. Says David Forney, chief of the CDC's Vessel Sanitation Program, "it is perfectly safe to go on cruise ships. The standard by which they (cruise lines) are held for sanitation is the highest in the world."

In fact, this season -- moving forward -- might even be an incredibly healthy time to sail as cruise lines -- and this is not limited to ships where outbreaks have occurred -- are developing proactive procedures to ensure that passengers on voyages throughout the winter season don't get sick. How? Royal Caribbean and Celebrity CEO Jack Williams, whose fleets have not had Norwalk outbreaks, is very candid about the company's new measures -- what he calls a multi-pronged strategy. This ranges from big-sweeping corporate directives (such as the creation of a task force to oversee increased health and sanitation efforts) to the implementation of a three-stage illness-prevention program to enhanced passenger communication efforts.

"The four vessels that experienced outbreaks were 'sick' ships."

Not at all. In every case the ships involved have scored very high on the CDC's notoriously strenuous vessel sanitation inspection. It wasn't the ships that were sick but the folks who came onboard and passed the illness around.Norwalk is, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, one of the most contagious gastrointestinal illnesses in the world.

"Norwalk Virus is a cruise ship phenomenon."

As probably is evident from this story's intro, simply not true -- and Norwalk is second to the common cold in reported illnesses, impacting millions of people around the world each year. Norwalk was actually named for a land-based outbreak in Norwalk Ohio that originally occurred some 30 years ago. It can break out at any time of the year. This is the first time there were a lot of cases during winter Caribbean season; Norwalk more commonly makes its flu-like appearance, almost annually, in northwestern Canada and Alaska during the summer season.

"There is no way cruise ships can battle the spread of Norwalk Virus."

Again, not true. There are intense -- and even-more-intense -- cleaning and service protocols that cruise lines undergo when the possibility of a spreadable virus onboard exists. These protocols have only become more, not less, sophisticated, as a result of this fall's series of outbreaks. All cruise lines are now in a ramped-up cleaning stage. At Princess Cruises, spokeswoman Tori Benson says "although Princess is not experiencing any outbreaks of Norwalk Virus, we are monitoring our ships very carefully. Princess staff and crew are trained to be extremely vigilant regarding passenger health, and the line operates a thorough health monitoring system. Employees receive special training and utilize a rigorous sanitary protocol which meets or exceeds CDC requirements."

Fairly new are service-oriented mandates -- buffet items are no longer serve-yourself, passengers get a "welcome letter" offering stay-healthy tips about washing hands frequently, and those who do contract the disease are encouraged to stay in their cabin for a day or two so as not to spread Norwalk when it's at its most communicable.

The second, more intense category involves taking the ship out of commission for a week or so for a massive cleaning that will remove any trace. For instance, when after four cruises Holland America couldn't break the cycle on Amsterdam despite enhanced cleaning, it took the ship out of commission and embarked on an ambitious program. This included sanitizing television remote controls and bibles, disinfecting poker chips and currency, discarding every pillow -- more than 2,500 -- and steam cleaning carpets. The end result? Amsterdam's follow-up cruise was, thankfully, Norwalk-free.

"Norwalk Virus was caused by uncooked food."

While that can be a cause, it doesn't appear, again according to the CDC, that this latest bout had anything at all to do with food. The CDC conducted extensive lab tests on Disney's Magic, Holland America's Amsterdam and Carnival's Fascination and in each case determined the illness was passed through people-to-people contact.

I thought the last point was VERY interesting to say the least! So Taswira I have to agree with what you said about it being PEOPLE not SHIPS that have the virus and this last article from the CDC made me even more convinced. I dont know if I can post the link for the article but I am going to try...if it gets deleted then I guess it gets deleted and I will know better next time. Here is the link for those interested.
http://www.cruisecritic.com/tips/tipsarticle.cfm?ID=67

Heidi

 

[taswira]

Thanks, hydster! That second article on "What You Need To Know" is <I>very</I> informative also!

Interesting about travel insurance - 'CSA Travel Protection's Claudia Fullerton says no. "There is no fear-of-illness coverage in the industry." ' So the people cancelling within 60 days either reschedule or lose everything?

The ONE thing they tell us to do that is going to be nearly IMPOSSUBLE for me is to "avoid using ice". Oh, no!

 

[hydster]

and out of the mouths of the CDC I have a tendency to believe it more than anywhere else!

I too thought the insurance thing was interesting and you know what if I cant have ice you might as well shoot me now!

Heidi

 

[kpgclark]

Gee, the last thing I'd do would be stay home. Toxic mold 'ya know! Oh wait, I'm afraid to go out- too many car accidents. I don't want to walk anywhere- could be shot by a sniper. Wait, I better home school my children too. There are just too many diseases out there that they could catch. I might as well just check out right now. Well I think I'll postpone my checking out until AFTER my cruise!