CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[Hikergirl]

If this is true, if it is able to deliver all of the benefits in a single versus multiple doses, if it is effective, and if it is safe it will be wonderful news.

Once again I'm tempering expectations based simply on an announcement from a for profit company that has a need to answer the interests of Wall Street and investors as part of business operations.

Exactly. Big Pharma has been the ultimate bad guy for years and years.
Now suddenly we should have faith and trust in them?
I think I'll hold off a bit on that.

 

[Jonfw2]

Okay, this is from a JnJ employee who is fairly high up- he meets personally with governors in multiple states:

"That is correct (doesn't need to be stored at low temps). Plus we are selling it at cost and manufacturing 1 billion doses. We have already started manufacturing the product even though approval is not certain. The technology we use is the same as our Ebola vaccine which 100k people have safely used".

 

[Jonfw2]

If this is true, if it is able to deliver all of the benefits in a single versus multiple doses, if it is effective, and if it is safe it will be wonderful news.

Once again I'm tempering expectations based simply on an announcement from a for profit company that has a need to answer the interests of Wall Street and investors as part of business operations.

They are selling every dose at cost.

 

[RamblingMad]

Exactly. Big Pharma has been the ultimate bad guy for years and years.
Now suddenly we should have faith and trust in them?
I think I'll hold off a bit on that.

It’s fine. They’re not a secret cabal of aliens trying to rule the world through mass injections.

 

[Praying Colonel]

It’s fine. They’re not a secret cabal of aliens trying to rule the world through mass injections.

Exactly the kind of thing a member of a secret cabal of aliens would say.

 

[RamblingMad]

Exactly the kind of thing a member of a secret cabal of aliens would say.

Yeah. That’s why the US issues visas with special abilities. They have to keep track of us.

I’m sure we’ll get through this. But I doubt it will be the timeline most people want.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

They used to hide their pharmaceuticals behind the McNeil name. I first heard about J&J selling pharmaceuticals around the time of the Tylenol murders.

I never said they don't have their hand in pharmaceuticals but that they themselves are not just a pharmaceutical company but thank you for giving that background. They are a household name in which people buy countless of their products, that in itself likely creates a comfort level that other companies in this vaccine race may not have.

 

[mousefan73]

Okay, this is from a JnJ employee who is fairly high up- he meets personally with governors in multiple states:

"That is correct (doesn't need to be stored at low temps). Plus we are selling it at cost and manufacturing 1 billion doses. We have already started manufacturing the product even though approval is not certain. The technology we use is the same as our Ebola vaccine which 100k people have safely used".

Thanks! Let’s keep our fingers crossed.

 

[LuvOrlando]

We do have an opportunity to choose the vaccine in a roundabout way by asking the person giving you the shot to produce the vial so you can grab a photo, if it's not what you want you can have a conversation at that point. Not sure if there are quirky laws elsewhere but I've always been made to sign off on a form that says I got the "VAS" that also has a line that lists the manufacturer and lot number and grab a photo right then and there, did the same for my children when they were young. It's best to ask caregivers to bring the actual vial when escorted back so they can carry it along with the needle otherwise they can end up searching for it. Only once did they bring me the wrong type of Flu vaccine in over 20 years, not that it would have mattered much but it's my body.

I'm all for vaccines but this is an informed consent issue and I'm all for that too. The more transparent things are the more likely people will be to comply
Read fact 9, very last point:
https://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p2027.pdf

 

[Hikergirl]

It’s fine. They’re not a secret cabal of aliens trying to rule the world through mass injections.

That's funny, but I wasn't really talking about invasion of the body snatchers

 

[Heigh-Ho]

We do have an opportunity to choose the vaccine in a roundabout way by asking the person giving you the shot to produce the vial so you can grab a photo, if it's not what you want you can have a conversation at that point. Not sure if there are quirky laws elsewhere but I've always been made to sign off on a form that says I got the "VAS" that also has a line that lists the manufacturer and lot number and grab a photo right then and there, did the same for my children when they were young. It's best to ask caregivers to bring the actual vial when escorted back so they can carry it along with the needle otherwise they can end up searching for it. Only once did they bring me the wrong type of Flu vaccine in over 20 years, not that it would have mattered much but it's my body.

I'm all for vaccines but this is an informed consent issue and I'm all for that too. The more transparent things are the more likely people will be to comply
Read fact 9, very last point:
https://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p2027.pdf

That's not exactly what I was discussing though. If a person says "I'm going to wait until I can get a vaccine that is the best or has a higher efficacy rate than the one initially given" my point was they may not have a choice. We are under this with the entire globe trying to get the vaccine for all their citizens. Choice is not a luxury we will likely have or at least I wouldn't bet on being able to decline a COVID-19 vaccine because there will assuredly be another option available and quickly. Think about how many new vaccines came out in the past, most didn't have a choice what was there initially. It took years to get different types as development could occur and vice versa where over time options were lowered. This is also why I understand the hesitancy regarding being one of the initial people.

What you did with your kids when they were young I'm not sure would even be possible right now. I think it's likely much greater you'll get the vaccine available or you'll choose not to but you may be waiting an undetermined amount of time before a different vaccine has been secured by your country and then filtered down to be used in your doctor's office.

Just to give an example the HPV vaccine. Right now there are 3 that are cleared for usage in the U.S. by the FDA according to the CDC "(9-valent HPV vaccine (Gardasil® 9, 9vHPV), quadrivalent HPV vaccine (Gardasil®, 4vHPV), and bivalent HPV vaccine (Cervarix®, 2vHPV)" but only ONE is currently being used in the U.S. "Gardasil-9 (Merck), a nine-valent HPV vaccine (9vHPV) that protects against HPV types 6, 11, 16, 18, 31, 33, 45, 52, and 58, is the only HPV vaccine currently distributed in the U.S." In the U.K they use Cervarix instead of Gardasil.

Now the reason only one is being used in the U.S. my assumption is the protection against more types has gotten more encompassing but that still took years to get to that point. The first Gardasil was in summer of 2006. The one currently used was approved in 2014 when the other ones were discontinued in usage in the U.S.

This is all purely guessing at this point but I just wouldn't set myself up for thinking I would have a choice much less be able to take a picture, look up all that information in the doctor's office and decline if I wanted to in favor of getting a different COVID-19 vaccine.

 

[Hikergirl]

Okay, this is from a JnJ employee who is fairly high up- he meets personally with governors in multiple states:

"That is correct (doesn't need to be stored at low temps). Plus we are selling it at cost and manufacturing 1 billion doses. We have already started manufacturing the product even though approval is not certain. The technology we use is the same as our Ebola vaccine which 100k people have safely used".

That's interesting that they are manufacturing it without approval being certain. I assume it's to be ready for distribution as soon as it has approval.
I have no idea if this is standard practice, probably is, but I imagine the cost of that manufacturing will be built into the "at cost" price of the finished approved vaccine. If what they are currently manufacturing isn't approved it still has to be paid for. "At cost" is all relative, it could cost them $200 a dose, or $20 or $2, the for profit company will certainly figure it out though

 

[Jonfw2]

That's interesting that they are manufacturing it without approval being certain. I assume it's to be ready for distribution as soon as it has approval.
I have no idea if this is standard practice, probably is, but I imagine the cost of that manufacturing will be built into the "at cost" price of the finished approved vaccine. If what they are currently manufacturing isn't approved it still has to be paid for. "At cost" is all relative, it could cost them $200 a dose, or $20 or $2, the for profit company will certainly figure it out though

The government is paying them to mass produce before approval. The "at cost" price is their cost. Additionally the US government has already announced there would be zero out of pocket cost for any Americans who wish to be vaccinated.

 

[cabanafrau]

They are selling every dose at cost.

I'm talking simply about the influence corporate statements are intended to have upon Wall Street and investors.

It’s fine. They’re not a secret cabal of aliens trying to rule the world through mass injections.

I'm not suggesting in any way that any of the pharmaceutical companies working on a vaccine are doing anything malicious and aren't in fact making sincere and dedicated efforts to come up with an effective solution. What I am suggesting is that corporate statements suggesting they are on the cusp of successfully answering the problem are about posturing for Wall Street, not necessarily reliable indications that success is around the corner. The statements are in service to a different goal.

 

[Hikergirl]

The government is paying them to mass produce before approval. The "at cost" price is their cost. Additionally the US government has already announced there would be zero out of pocket cost for any Americans who wish to be vaccinated.

Well I would hope there is no out of pocket costs since those of us who pay taxes have already paid for it, but I'm not holding my breath on that.

So, the mass production of an unapproved vaccine is unprecedented?

 

[Jonfw2]

it.
I'm talking simply about the influence corporate statements are intended to have upon Wall Street and investors.

I'm not suggesting in any way that any of the pharmaceutical companies working on a vaccine are doing anything malicious and aren't in fact making sincere and dedicated efforts to come up with an effective solution. What I am suggesting is that corporate statements suggesting they are on the cusp of successfully answering the problem are about posturing for Wall Street, not necessarily reliable indications that success is around the corner. The statements are in service to a different goal.

The corporate Wall Street stuff here is way overdone in my opinion. First and foremost, they HAVE to publicly announce this stuff as it's considered material information. Second, Wall Street already knows they won't be making a ton of money off of it. Third, if the vaccine hurts people or fails to work, that's as negative as today's news is positive.

In short, there's no true area to be suspicious of their motivations here.

 

[Jonfw2]

Well I would hope there is no out of pocket costs since those of us who pay taxes have already paid for it, but I'm not holding my breath on that.

So, the mass production of an unapproved vaccine is unprecedented?

My contact at JnJ told me he has worked in the pharmaceutical industry for 34 years and has never once seen this happen.

 

[LuvOrlando]

This is all purely guessing at this point but I just wouldn't set myself up for thinking I would have a choice much less be able to take a picture, look up all that information in the doctor's office and decline if I wanted to in favor of getting a different COVID-19 vaccine.

Why would you think this won't be possible?

The law says this info needs to be recorded, the law also says patients have a right to their records so what earthly reason would prevent a patient from doing what I have always done? Honestly, if I was refused the vial I would walk out, mostly out of concern it wasn't in date or was maybe cloudy, maybe they even confused shots and might be giving me the wrong thing so refusal it would make me completely suspicious. The walking out is the choice part, it's always an option so I can't say that I am following your assertion that this isn't doable.

 

[cabanafrau]

The corporate Wall Street stuff here is way overdone in my opinion. First and foremost, they HAVE to publicly announce this stuff as it's considered material information. Second, Wall Street already knows they won't be making a ton of money off of it. Third, if the vaccine hurts people or fails to work, that's as negative as today's news is positive.

In short, there's no true area to be suspicious of their motivations here.

Interesting perspective. I'm guessing we have different standards for what's overdone.

I disagree Wall Street knows there won't be plenty of money made off this.

 

[Jonfw2]

Interesting perspective. I'm guessing we have different standards for what's overdone.

So, what do you think is their advantage here to- in your words- "posturing for Wall Street"?