DAS Outrage vs Genie Plus Outrage?

[smartlabelprint]

At least the people I know who use DAS, have no problem providing doc's

Maybe some other people it would upset but to me that feels like the best way to solve the issue

I haven’t heard any parents of kids with developmental disabilities that wouldn’t give documentation. In many social posts right now I hear the cry of “but HIPAA” (usually HIPPA!) from those with apparently questionable disabilities.

 

[smartlabelprint]

DAS is not a "free version" of G+. That's like saying that a trailer is a free version of a movie. Disney needs to correct that perception. Disney is a marketing behemoth and they're being outdone by some influencers without a fight? Not likely.

DAS has its problems, none of which are related to the definition of "disability" or, frankly, people lying about having one. I say that having a DAS person in my family who will continue to qualify under the new rules, the Universal rules, or a medical record requirement. I would vote to keep the expansive definition and correct the actual problems that are really creating the inequities that are appealing to the outright liars.

The first problem is advance selections. For most DAS users, candidly including my group, that's totally unnecessary. That should be an accommodation to meet a specific, narrow issue, that can be granted by a CM at their discretion. Not an automatic thing. I rejected these on our last trip and do not plan to accept these for our next trip. A good part of me wonders whether this was just intended to be a carrot to get people to register for DAS as soon as possible during the COVID years.

The second problem is the ability to do other things while waiting on the return time. Disney surely could incorporate a rule into its DAS technology/MDE app that cancels return times if anyone in the group picks up a mobile order, checks into a dining reservation, uses an ILL, exits the park, purchases something, etc. - things you can't do in line. That would remove virtually all of the inequities.

The third problem is Disney needs to enforce its lifetime ban against liars to balance the risk/reward calculus. It's as plain and simple as that. If you brag on social media about lying to get DAS, it should be simple enough for Disney to figure out which Magic Band was used to tap in and ban that individual. For heavens sake, they are already publicly using biometric scanning.

If DAS users are required to actually wait the same amount of time to get a ride as anyone else, albeit perhaps in a different location, and miss all of the cool queue stuff that makes up a significant portion of many attractions in doing so, do we really care if someone is only arguably "disabled?" Are we so in love with the overflow lines snaking through Fantasyland at 2:00 that we must fight to keep them at all cost?

The new rules are a red herring, IMO. They miss the mark horribly and are not going to address any part of the problem. This makes me sad because it likely means even more overhaul to DAS in the near term.

“The second problem is the ability to do other things while waiting on the return time. Disney surely could incorporate a rule into its DAS technology/MDE app that cancels return times if anyone in the group picks up a mobile order, checks into a dining reservation, uses an ILL, exits the park, purchases something, etc. - things you can't do in line. That would remove virtually all of the inequities.” I don’t understand this reasoning at all. And I don’t see Disney going for it. They want you spending money elsewhere, whether that’s ILL, food, etc.

 

[smartlabelprint]

In the thread in the disabilities board there are a few examples of the expense of doctors appointments, lapses in insurance, and doctor availability.

These are excuses. Or a grab at coming up with something that sounds logical. If you have chronic condition you see docs all the time. At the very least you have an annual appointment. Sure, when universal started the letter requirement, there was little notice. Now that it’s a thing, everyone that could potentially go to a theme park can just ask for one at their annual appointment. The same as I ask for an annual letter for melatonin so our HSA/HRA will reimburse it. My friend does have a current lapse in insurance for her type 1 child!! Of course she knew it was coming and made lots of appointments beforehand and had stocked up on meds. If anything, people grumbling are showing that they are poor planners. We have so many docs for my kids DD’s we could get a letter just by asking, no appointment needed.

 

[smartlabelprint]

I think with the bus situation, people complain more so about how a party of 12 accompanying the wheelchair user can board first and in some cases fill up half the bus before people that were waiting longer can even get on.

There are also limited wheelchair spots. Some wheelchairs must wait for many buses to get a spot. So nice read. I love the ability to walk across the st at DL. But I’m trying to figure this out before a WDW trip.

 

[Karin1984]

I think outrage is in essence the same. People want the world with equal rights for all. But the world isn't equal and it isn't fair.

And whether that is because of money or an accomodation for a condition doesnt really matter for the outrage. People see someone having it "easier", and want that too.

If there is one difference, it is history. For as long as humankind has had a monetary system, there are people with more money or whatever than others. We are much more used to this system that some are rich, some are poor. Unfair, but we know much better that is the world, and have accepted it over the centuries.

Accomodations for people with certain conditions are not even 50 years old. Maybe even younger. In addition to this, accomodations are a lot less visible than having a lot or less money.

Who here makes accomodations at home or work, no one else knows about? But people outside your family will see it if you can go on holiday 5 times a year, have the latest gear or a big house.

 

[starlite_]

Yeah, but it does hit a little differently when most of the less equal could easily join the more equal at their discretion. It's not a true systemic inequality but rather a voluntary stratification.

Precisely, $30 is an accessible price for everyone going to Disney, $200 not so much. And I say this as someone who's group has never been really able to afford to go longer than 2 days (mostly because of hotels, but still).

 

[Brian Noble]

"We've established what line cutting is, now we're just haggling over the price."
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/03/07/haggling/

 

[irlandaise]

I haven’t heard any parents of kids with developmental disabilities that wouldn’t give documentation. In many social posts right now I hear the cry of “but HIPAA” (usually HIPPA!) from those with apparently questionable disabilities.

It figures that the people who aren't really qualified for DAS would be ignorant of HIPAA laws. A parent has every right to provide medical information for their children—and, of course, adults for themselves.

 

[JerrodDragon89]

Don't throw virtual tomatoes at me, but I think they should raise the price of Genie+ for one day guests and lower it for multi-day visitors (which ideally make up out of town visitors).

As long as they give an option for MK to get a yearly pass then sure. I can go for this but MK pay and arm and leg and USH pass for 1/3 the price comes with express

 

[Smugpugmug]

People have lied before genie.

Anyone else remember when guests would hire people in wheelchairs so that they would get front of the line access? People will stoop to any level to get an advantage.

 

[jimmymc]

Theme parks are a luxury good that you're agreeing to pay for. So being able to pay more money for a better experience is fair. Even back in the day before any fastpasses there were VIP tours. You paid a lot of money and got to skip all the lines. Genie+ is just a step in between regular park ticket and VIP tour, where you can pay extra to skip some lines. Universal, Cedar Fair, Seaworld, and Six Flags all have a system like this.

Over the years, even before Genie+ was even announced, people have been discovering ways to get DAS access for free and using it to skip lines, even though they don't need it. The laws in the US limit the amount of questioning guest services can do, so if you learned to say the right things, anyone could now skip lines without paying extra. This comes at the detriment to people who need DAS just to level the playing field, people who would like to be in normal lines but can't. DAS abusers are hurting both guests in the standby queue and people who actually need it.

 

[Karin1984]

As long as they give an option for MK to get a yearly pass then sure. I can go for this but MK pay and arm and leg and USH pass for 1/3 the price comes with express

We have that here in Paris. One of our DAS passes can be issued for 1 year for annual pass holders.

There is a list for most EU countries (& the US) which documentation they accept as proof of disability. Think things like a disability parking pass from the government. In the Netherlands a membership of the autism organization is accepted.

After a year you can renew it, by submitting your paperwork again.

 

[BlueGreen5]

“The second problem is the ability to do other things while waiting on the return time. Disney surely could incorporate a rule into its DAS technology/MDE app that cancels return times if anyone in the group picks up a mobile order, checks into a dining reservation, uses an ILL, exits the park, purchases something, etc. - things you can't do in line. That would remove virtually all of the inequities.” I don’t understand this reasoning at all. And I don’t see Disney going for it. They want you spending money elsewhere, whether that’s ILL, food, etc.

I think there's probably a distinction here that might clarify this.

On the one hand, I don't see anything wrong with, for example, a DAS user with MS drinking something to regulate their body temp., or a diabetic eating something to raise their blood sugar, while they "wait" wherever they are "waiting" .....or something similar to that. That's because those activities could be done by someone in the traditional queue. And maybe the DAS user doesn't have the ability to plan for the onset of the condition that requires the drink/food, and so it would only seem fair that that DAS user can "stop waiting" and take care of their needs without going to the back of the "line" (using quotes in this paragraph because these are activities that are happening virtually in the DAS matrix). I don't think anyone would debate that.

On the other hand, I'm not aware of any disability that is fairly served by grabbing a return time to 7DMT right before your BOG reservation (which, right now, is a perfectly legitimate thing to do). No non-DAS user could both wait in line and enjoy a table service meal at the same time. Both are time-consuming activities, so being able to do both at the same time is a huge advantage. And huge advantages are okay, as long as there is some need that is being reconciled by them. But, I can't think of a situation where that type of advantage is justified by a condition, which is why I said this is one area where I think DAS is broken. I'm interested to hear if you have a different take on that type of situation - maybe you could convince me, or point to a disability that is served by this behavior, because I CERTAINLY do not profess to know everything.

I think the long line/table service meal example is one draw for the DAS scammers. If it were eliminated, there would be less reward on which to risk a lifetime ban. And, as someone who has a DAS user with permanent mental disabilities in their group, if I'm picking between cutting this type of behavior out, and cutting out individuals with physical disabilities and implementing a return-to-line scheme for them, I'd pick the former 10 times out of 10, even though that would, in theory, be in opposition to my own self-interest.

I understand your point about Disney wanting you to spend money elsewhere. I truly hope that is not at all guiding their decisions on DAS policies.

 

[VandVsmama]

I miss the Max Pass days, where you'd pay $10-15/person per day and you could basically get FP's every 2 hr all day long. It was so awesome. You could even do repeat FP's for the same ride. Genie+ is far inferior to that.

 

[JerrodDragon89]

I miss the Max Pass days, where you'd pay $10-15/person per day and you could basically get FP's every 2 hr all day long. It was so awesome. You could even do repeat FP's for the same ride. Genie+ is far inferior to that.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I miss the Max Pass days, where you'd pay $10-15/person per day and you could basically get FP's every 2 hr all day long. It was so awesome. You could even do repeat FP's for the same ride. Genie+ is far inferior to that.

Maxpass was superior to Fastpass+, WDW's equivalent. I rode more with Maxpass than I ever did with Fastpass+.

 

[VandVsmama]

Maxpass was superior to Fastpass+, WDW's equivalent. I rode more with Maxpass than I ever did with Fastpass+.

Absolutely. I remember receiving some very passionate disagreement from WDW-goers back in the Maxpass days, who insisted that their entire DL visit would be horrible if they couldn't schedule their 3 rides ahead of the day of arrival.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Absolutely. I remember receiving some very passionate disagreement from WDW-goers back in the Maxpass days, who insisted that their entire DL visit would be horrible if they couldn't schedule their 3 rides ahead of the day of arrival.

I would've told those people that it's okay to be wrong sometimes

 

[irlandaise]

On the other hand, I'm not aware of any disability that is fairly served by grabbing a return time to 7DMT right before your BOG reservation (which, right now, is a perfectly legitimate thing to do). No non-DAS user could both wait in line and enjoy a table service meal at the same time.

Since this is a Disneyland board, would Rise of the Resistance and Blue Bayou be equivalent to the WDW examples you gave?

 

[BlueGreen5]

Since this is a Disneyland board, would Rise of the Resistance and Blue Bayou be equivalent to the WDW examples you gave?

lol, didn't notice that, sorry. RotR for sure. Not familiar with Blue Bayou - any table service meal would suffice in my example, though. At MK, BOG and 7DMT are close in proximity to each other and both are major time commitments.