Disney Skyliner (Gondola Transportation System) Read Post 1 Now Open!

[intertile]

No, in fact you are right here with what you are saying - you could possibly get some BW or BC guests walk to the IG to take the gondola to DHS. However, I don't think that would be really very common:

The boats come through every 15 minutes, and if I am at say BC the most I wait for a boat is 15 minutes + the 15 minute ride to DHS - so 15 -30 minutes from BC to DHS by boat. Otherwise, the walk to IG takes maybe 10 minutes and then 15 minutes via gondola, so 25 minutes via gondola vs 15-30 minutes by boat, plus an extra 1/4-1/2 mile of walking to the gondola - it's not going to be a popular option.

BW maybe a little more common - since you have 2 stops before you get to DHS, so if you hoof it over to IG and hop the gondola, you might save 10-15 minutes versus a boat, but again the added walking will negate a lot of desire to do this.

Even from the BW I doubt many will walk to IG to grab a gondolla to DHS. We are fast walkers, and do the BW to DHS walk in under 20 minutes. The only thing I can see is taking the gondola home at night as a "break" from all the walking, but it will in no way be faster. At best it will be 15 minutes from DHS to IG with a transfer at CBR(how long will that take?) and then 5 minutes walk from IG back to BW. I can see using it to park hop as you will stay within the security bubble and can avoid a second security check. Otherwise this really is meant for the Epcot resorts(BC,YC,BW,Swan and Dolphin) as a primary form of transportation.

 

[jade1]

Even from the BW I doubt many will walk to IG to grab a gondolla to DHS. We are fast walkers, and do the BW to DHS walk in under 20 minutes. The only thing I can see is taking the gondola home at night as a "break" from all the walking, but it will in no way be faster. At best it will be 15 minutes from DHS to IG with a transfer at CBR(how long will that take?) and then 5 minutes walk from IG back to BW. I can see using it to park hop as you will stay within the security bubble and can avoid a second security check. Otherwise this really is meant for the Epcot resorts(BC,YC,BW,Swan and Dolphin) as a primary form of transportation.

Yep exact same.

 

[skier_pete]

For comparison: I was browsing around Doppelmayr's web site, and found that the 2016-built Giggijoch Mountain Gondola in Sölden, Austria, currently holds the capacity record for all monocable ropeways, carrying 4,500 pph at 14.5 mph in 10-passenger cabins.

ETA: more info: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ski/news/record-breaking-gondola-opens-in-solden/

ETA: This video talks about some new features used to increase capacity. Could be a hint to what we'll see on Disney's Skyliner.

ETA: Video of ride. Not so relevant to Disney, but beautiful. Deboarding and boarding are on the same side of the station, with 10 cabins in the boarding area at once!

A little more data mining. Length is 2648 meters which is 8688 feet or 1.65 miles. Time is takes is 8.87 minutes total time. Speed is 14.5 mile/hr, so actual transit time is 7.07 minutes, with the remaining 1.8 minutes for load/unload. This tells us it spends roughly 54 seconds in each of the stations.

Assuming a similar speed, the distance from DHS to CBR is about 0.5 miles, so the trip time from DHS to CBR is 1.8 minutes for load/unload and 2 minutes for transit. or 3.8 minutes from load to unload. Similar distance from Pop to CBR - roughly 4 minutes.

CBR to IG is about 8,000 feet or just over 1.5 miles, or 6.2 minutes transit. If you assume the Riviera "stop" is similar to the start/end stop (0.9 minutes), that's 2.7 plus 6.2, or 8.9 minutes total transit.

So assuming only transit time (this is from the second you board to the second you offload) these are estimated times with the above assumptions:
IG -> DHS 12.7 minutes
CBR -> IG 8.9 minutes
CBR -> DHS 3.8 minutes
Pop -> CBR 4 minutes
Pop -> Epcot 12.9 minutes
Pop -> DHS 7.8 minutes
Riviera -> IG 6.5 minutes
Riviera -> DHS 6.2 minutes
And of course the reverse are true.

Interestingly that Riviera gets the most even distribution of transit times - though again it doesn't include the wait at CBR. Will be interesting to see how they handle the CBR merge. Do people getting off the transfer gondolas get a different line than people "walking up" from CBR. (Note that most people at CBR will not be walking to this station - it is close to very few units, and most will need to bus to get here.)

 

[Spartan86]

For comparison: I was browsing around Doppelmayr's web site, and found that the 2016-built Giggijoch Mountain Gondola in Sölden, Austria, currently holds the capacity record for all monocable ropeways, carrying 4,500 pph at 14.5 mph in 10-passenger cabins.

ETA: more info: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ski/news/record-breaking-gondola-opens-in-solden/

ETA: This video talks about some new features used to increase capacity. Could be a hint to what we'll see on Disney's Skyliner.

ETA: Video of ride. Not so relevant to Disney, but beautiful. Deboarding and boarding are on the same side of the station, with 10 cabins in the boarding area at once!

Here is the LiftBlog article about the Sölden lift.

 

[jade1]

A little more data mining. Length is 2648 meters which is 8688 feet or 1.65 miles. Time is takes is 8.87 minutes total time. Speed is 14.5 mile/hr, so actual transit time is 7.07 minutes, with the remaining 1.8 minutes for load/unload. This tells us it spends roughly 54 seconds in each of the stations.

Assuming a similar speed, the distance from DHS to CBR is about 0.5 miles, so the trip time from DHS to CBR is 1.8 minutes for load/unload and 2 minutes for transit. or 3.8 minutes from load to unload. Similar distance from Pop to CBR - roughly 4 minutes.

CBR to IG is about 8,000 feet or just over 1.5 miles, or 6.2 minutes transit. If you assume the Riviera "stop" is similar to the start/end stop (0.9 minutes), that's 2.7 plus 6.2, or 8.9 minutes total transit.

So assuming only transit time (this is from the second you board to the second you offload) these are estimated times with the above assumptions:
IG -> DHS 12.7 minutes
CBR -> IG 8.9 minutes
CBR -> DHS 3.8 minutes
Pop -> CBR 4 minutes
Pop -> Epcot 12.9 minutes
Pop -> DHS 7.8 minutes
Riviera -> IG 6.5 minutes
Riviera -> DHS 6.2 minutes
And of course the reverse are true.

Interestingly that Riviera gets the most even distribution of transit times - though again it doesn't include the wait at CBR. Will be interesting to see how they handle the CBR merge. Do people getting off the transfer gondolas get a different line than people "walking up" from CBR. (Note that most people at CBR will not be walking to this station - it is close to very few units, and most will need to bus to get here.)

Interesting post for sure thanks. The big one for me is Riviera to EPCOT in 6.5 min and no stops.

With that walkway from Riviera to the gondola, it could be like a guaranteed 10 minutes from your Riviera room to EPCOT.

Guaranteed times make ADR and FP+ and the new Illumination so much nicer for not wasting time.

Be interesting to see how far the walk (and time needed) is at the CBR connection from Riviera to DHS to add to its 6 minute journey.

 

[sndral]

Interesting post for sure thanks. The big one for me is Riviera to EPCOT in 6.5 min and no stops.

With that walkway from Riviera to the gondola, it could be like a guaranteed 10 minutes from your Riviera room to EPCOT.

Guaranteed times make ADR and FP+ and the new Illumination so much nicer for not wasting time.

Be interesting to see how far the walk (and time needed) is at the CBR connection from Riviera to DHS to add to its 6 minute journey.

If your villa is on the gondola side of the resort and they put elevators at that end it’ll be a quick hop to board the gondola & as long as they are dispatching enough empty cabins from the CBR hub, you’re golden. If, however, you end up in one of the villas on the far side of Riviera you may have a hike just traversing the resort to get to the gondolas. I’m still wondering how they will deal w/ ECVs and strollers at the Riviera station since it doesn’t seem to have the double load design the other stations have.
I’m most interested in riding the one to/from AOA/POP because it glides in and out over the water

 

[OSUZorba]

A little more data mining. Length is 2648 meters which is 8688 feet or 1.65 miles. Time is takes is 8.87 minutes total time. Speed is 14.5 mile/hr, so actual transit time is 7.07 minutes, with the remaining 1.8 minutes for load/unload. This tells us it spends roughly 54 seconds in each of the stations.

Assuming a similar speed, the distance from DHS to CBR is about 0.5 miles, so the trip time from DHS to CBR is 1.8 minutes for load/unload and 2 minutes for transit. or 3.8 minutes from load to unload. Similar distance from Pop to CBR - roughly 4 minutes.

CBR to IG is about 8,000 feet or just over 1.5 miles, or 6.2 minutes transit. If you assume the Riviera "stop" is similar to the start/end stop (0.9 minutes), that's 2.7 plus 6.2, or 8.9 minutes total transit.

So assuming only transit time (this is from the second you board to the second you offload) these are estimated times with the above assumptions:
IG -> DHS 12.7 minutes
CBR -> IG 8.9 minutes
CBR -> DHS 3.8 minutes
Pop -> CBR 4 minutes
Pop -> Epcot 12.9 minutes
Pop -> DHS 7.8 minutes
Riviera -> IG 6.5 minutes
Riviera -> DHS 6.2 minutes
And of course the reverse are true.

Interestingly that Riviera gets the most even distribution of transit times - though again it doesn't include the wait at CBR. Will be interesting to see how they handle the CBR merge. Do people getting off the transfer gondolas get a different line than people "walking up" from CBR. (Note that most people at CBR will not be walking to this station - it is close to very few units, and most will need to bus to get here.)

The turn station will likely take about as much time as a station, probably a little quicker since it'll be shorter.

I think the Riviera station looks longer than normal, so it'll likely take longer. I am making a guess that it'll have the ability to fully stop a car in the middle to quickly allow loading of EVC or wheelchairs.

I am interested to see how they handle the transfers at CBR. I think it'll only be a huge deal at closing and opening. In the middle of the day I doubt it'll have any line.

But at opening, say maybe a quarter of each resort goes to Epcot and a quarter to DHS over the span of three hours. Assuming every room is full with 3 people, that would be 5455 people going through CBR station for DHS and slightly less for Epcot (remembering these are separate lines). At 4500 people per hour to each park, that would be 75 people each minute to each park. If you say the morning rush is three hours, that would only be 30 people per minute, so you'd still have about a 250% over capacity (75/min capacity vs 30/min demand) and no line at CBR. I think this would be the absolute extreme for the morning rush, CBR would have to have a full internal bus drop off every 3.5 minutes to provide its share of this many people.

Based on this, I think the only lines people will ever experience will be right after fireworks, but even then people less than 5-10 minutes.

 

[joelkfla]

At 4500 people per hour (I assume this is both directions per line, so 2250 each way to each park),

I'm pretty sure that's 4500 pphpd = persons per hr. per direction. It wouldn't make much sense for a ski resort to say their lift can move 4500 pph if only half of them could be going uphill!

Verified on Doppelmayr's site:

The detachable gondola lift at a glance

• Transport capacities of up to 4,500 passengers per hour and direction

 

[OSUZorba]

I'm pretty sure that's 4500 pphpd = persons per hr. per direction. It wouldn't make much sense for a ski resort to say their lift can move 4500 pph if only half of them could be going uphill!

Verified on Doppelmayr's site:

The detachable gondola lift at a glance

• Transport capacities of up to 4,500 passengers per hour and direction

Thanks, I thought that I remembered it was per direction, but then my distrust for corporate bragging kicked in and decided it was probably both directions and I was too lazy to do the math. I'll update my post.

 

[skier_pete]

But at opening, say maybe a quarter of each resort goes to Epcot and a quarter to DHS over the span of three hours. Assuming every room is full with 3 people, that would be 5455 people going through CBR station for DHS and slightly less for Epcot (remembering these are separate lines). At 4500 people per hour to each park, that would be 75 people each minute to each park.

And those are VERY generous numbers since it's essentially discounting that (a) MK is the most popular park for people to go to, (b) people spend time going to water parks / Disney Springs / Other resorts, and (c) some people have days where they just stay at their resort.

Here's how I prefer to think about it - a resort like Pop Century currently has a bus go to Epcot every 15 minutes, and a bus go to DHS every 15 minutes in the morning starting at say 8 AM. If each bus full holds 60 people, then that's 240 people per hour leaving Pop for DHS and Epcot each. If we add in CBR, AOA, and Riviera - that's just under 1000 people an hour traveling in each direction in the morning that are traveling to these two parks RIGHT NOW. You are suggesting it will be five times what the current # of people going to the parks are. And while I agree having the gondolas there may increase those traveling to these parks slightly - you are not going to get anywhere near 5400 people in three hours.

 

[jade1]

If, however, you end up in one of the villas on the far side of Riviera you may have a hike just traversing the resort to get to the gondolas.

Agreed. The hotel room location walk should add from 0 extra yards (assuming a gondola side exit, plus any stairs per level) to I suppose a max of 200 to 250 yards?

I would assume about a minute to a minute and a half per 100 yards?

So need to factor that in for timing for sure.

 

[jade1]

And those are VERY generous numbers since it's essentially discounting that (a) MK is the most popular park for people to go to, (b) people spend time going to water parks / Disney Springs / Other resorts, and (c) some people have days where they just stay at their resort.

Here's how I prefer to think about it - a resort like Pop Century currently has a bus go to Epcot every 15 minutes, and a bus go to DHS every 15 minutes in the morning starting at say 8 AM. If each bus full holds 60 people, then that's 240 people per hour leaving Pop for DHS and Epcot each. If we add in CBR, AOA, and Riviera - that's just under 1000 people an hour traveling in each direction in the morning that are traveling to these two parks RIGHT NOW. You are suggesting it will be five times what the current # of people going to the parks are. And while I agree having the gondolas there may increase those traveling to these parks slightly - you are not going to get anywhere near 5400 people in three hours.

Yea checkin/out alone drops the pool to 85% (1/7the of the week) or 21% if every single guest hits a park in the first 3 hours.

I would venture 1/2 of the guests do not make it in the first 3 hour to a park, even before FP+.

My "per park" guess is 10% in the first 3 hours, and 10% after that through the evening.

And that still means 100% of already checked in guests hit a park that day, so even that is unlikely like you say with D Springs, US, resort days etc.

 

[Brocktoon]

So, assuming no breakdowns, you're not going to be up there very long at all. But, there are likely to be some stoppages, so those passengers in the heat and humidity of summer are going to bake when that happens!

Hopefully I'm wrong, but you can almost count on there being stoppages from time to time, and I wouldn't want to be stopped in a Gondola hanging along a stretch that has the sun beating down on them with no circulation. This has the potential to be a major oversight (or bad design decision) that people will talk about for years.

 

[Capang]

Hopefully I'm wrong, but you can almost count on there being stoppages from time to time, and I wouldn't want to be stopped in a Gondola hanging along a stretch that has the sun beating down on them with no circulation. This has the potential to be a major oversight (or bad design decision) that people will talk about for years.

I'm certain the heat and airflow during a breakdown was taken into consideration by the engineers. I imagine we will not see problems with heat/airflow once the gondolas open. I know many are concerned but I'm withholding worries until I actually see it, ride it myself, and listen to firsthand accounts when it does break down.

 

[skier_pete]

Yea checkin/out alone drops the pool to 85% (1/7the of the week) or 21% if every single guest hits a park in the first 3 hours.

I would venture 1/2 of the guests do not make it in the first 3 hour to a park, even before FP+.

My "per park" guess is 10% in the first 3 hours, and 10% after that through the evening.

And that still means 100% of already checked in guests hit a park that day, so even that is unlikely like you say with D Springs, US, resort days etc.

Yeah, I would agree the per park is probably in the 10% range for those first three hours.

 

[danikoski]

Hopefully I'm wrong, but you can almost count on there being stoppages from time to time, and I wouldn't want to be stopped in a Gondola hanging along a stretch that has the sun beating down on them with no circulation. This has the potential to be a major oversight (or bad design decision) that people will talk about for years.

From everything I've read from people who know way more about this gondola system then me, stoppages will be very rare. There are a lot of redundancies in the system to ensure the cable can always move, and therefore the gondolas can always be pulled into a station. The gondolas detach from the cable in the loading areas and at every station, except Riveria, there appear to be two loading areas. So the cable that moves the gondola will not stop, meaning the gondolas will not stop while on the lines. The only time they'd potentially stop would be possibly for loading, but that will not stop the cable or already loaded and attached gondolas.

ETA: Riveria is the only station that no one seems to be quite sure how they are handling loading and unloading. However, the gondolas will still detach from the cable and keep moving, so should be no stopping from loading and unloading.

 

[thorp8]

From everything I've read from people who know way more about this gondola system then me, stoppages will be very rare. There are a lot of redundancies in the system to ensure the cable can always move, and therefore the gondolas can always be pulled into a station. The gondolas detach from the cable in the loading areas and at every station, except Riveria, there appear to be two loading areas. So the cable that moves the gondola will not stop, meaning the gondolas will not stop while on the lines. The only time they'd potentially stop would be possibly for loading, but that will not stop the cable or already loaded and attached gondolas.

ETA: Riveria is the only station that no one seems to be quite sure how they are handling loading and unloading. However, the gondolas will still detach from the cable and keep moving, so should be no stopping from loading and unloading.

JUST SPECULATION-
But I don't believe we are sure that the same general thing happens at Riveria. My guess (JUST A GUESS) is that the gondolas also come off the cable to slow them down, but the cable just goes straight through the station rather than does a U-turn at the other locations. Just because it looks different, doesn't mean it has to operate differently.

 

[skier_pete]

JUST SPECULATION-
But I don't believe we are sure that the same general thing happens at Riveria. My guess (JUST A GUESS) is that the gondolas also come off the cable to slow them down, but the cable just goes straight through the station rather than does a U-turn at the other locations. Just because it looks different, doesn't mean it has to operate differently.

I believe this is correct, they will still come off the cable and slow down. The difficulty here is that all the other stations have a secondary loop that allows to take some gondolas off the cable for wheelchair ECV loading. From what we know of Gondola design/photos of the station it appears that Riviera won't have this option. (Makes me wonder if they will have to have special transport from Riviera for wheelchair/ECV.) But otherwise it will work very similar to the other locations.

 

[DanBoris]

JUST SPECULATION-
But I don't believe we are sure that the same general thing happens at Riveria. My guess (JUST A GUESS) is that the gondolas also come off the cable to slow them down, but the cable just goes straight through the station rather than does a U-turn at the other locations. Just because it looks different, doesn't mean it has to operate differently.

This is correct. This is how Riveria and the Boardwalk would work:

 

[umichigan10]

This is correct. This is how Riveria and the Boardwalk would work:

Just wanted to add that boardwalk won’t have a physical station. It’s just a turn in the line