Disney's Dark Kingdom (Complete list on pg 24)

[DannyDisneyFreak]

Why are you such a pessimist? The ideas seem too planned out to be made up. I bet a lot of people wouldn't have believed the fantasyland expansion rumors.

I understand why this is a fun topic to bounce around and speculate on but most people check out the News and Rumors board for some real news and/or somewhat reliable rumors. I haven't checked out the rumors and news in a while and when this was the first thread on top I literally shook my head and laughed. If this is a real rumor that Disney is seriously looking at develop at any time in the near or distant future then great... but cite some real sources. I am much more excited about the new fantasyland expansion than prospects of the imaginary 5th park. Also like mentioned by some previously I would MUCH rather see some much needed refurbishment on some attractions than a whole new park. Here's an idea, when they're done with Fantasyland move on to Tomorrowland and rip out that dang speedway and put in somthing cool!

 

[DrDoofenshmirtz]

Whereas I'd love to see a 5th park, especially a Villain themed park, I don't think it'll happen any time soon, because Disney doesn't have a competitor in the central Florida area to emulate.

The Living Seas at EPCOT was in answer to Seaworld.

Disney-MGM Studios was in answer to Universal Studios. Yes, Disney-MGM opened first, but Universal was announced first. Disney just launched a pre-emptive strike.

DAK was in answer to Busch Gardens.

I suppose you could argue that Disney might respond to IOA, but, honestly, IOA was a response to the MK.

So, unless Legoland turns out to be a real blockbuster, I just don't expect to see another Disney park in Orlando. And, if Legoland does turn out to be a big draw, That's what we'll see Disney target...kiddie rides.

 

[tjkraz]

Disney-MGM Studios was in answer to Universal Studios. Yes, Disney-MGM opened first, but Universal was announced first. Disney just launched a pre-emptive strike.

DAK was in answer to Busch Gardens.

That was more a result of Michael Eisner's shoot-from-the-hip, ego-driven management style, and is not particularly reflective of the current regime.

The current way of looking at things revolves around growth potential. Locations like Hong Kong and Shanghai are untapped and expose hundreds-of-millions of people to a Disney park. Disney California Adventure was drawing 5 million guests per year while Disneyland located 500' away was at 16 million. Obviously there is room to grow at DCA, thus the $1 billion capital investment.

I'm just repeating myself but a fifth traditional theme park would increase Disney's park operating expenses by 25% yet there's really no reason to believe that revenues would grow by 25%. Existing customers wouldn't consistently spend 25% more than they do now. And Walt Disney World as a whole would not draw 25% more business by opening a fifth park.

It just doesn't pass the sniff test on any level.

What DOES make sense is:

1. Growing the existing parks through major investments like Fantasyland and Avatar. Why bother spending billions on a fifth gate when you've already got four gates which can still be expanded???

2. Some sort of niche theme park in the vein of Discovery Cove which would cost less to build, less to maintain, less to staff and yet return major dollars from consumers who want that elite experience.

 

[DrDoofenshmirtz]

That was more a result of Michael Eisner's shoot-from-the-hip, ego-driven management style, and is not particularly reflective of the current regime.

I agree with everything you said, and the above quote is 99% true. Eisner was definitely the driving force behind the newer parks, but...Disney is STILL doing this. Avatar land (as a themed land, not an entire park, but considerably more than just an attraction) is obviously a response to Potterland over at IOA.

After all, it was HP that showed Disney that an entire themed land based on an outside property can make a major difference in park attendance.

I reiterate, there will be no 5th Disney Park, until Disney decides they need to compete directly with someone. In fact, your idea of a high-end park (like Discovery Cove) is exactly the sort of thing I could see happen. The question is: Is Discovery Cove a significantly big a moneymaker to interest Disney executives?

 

[Dfan79]

Yep, Disney realized after Potter that they have to market towards boys. They cleverly added Avatar and 7 dwarves mine to Fantasyland

 

[burnurcomputer]

My 13 year old has been seeing rumors about this for the past year or so. he has been telling me that it wil featuer villians and Epic Mickey situstions

 

[bb7877]

Disney needs this. I think it would provide some needed "balance" so to speak. You can find more disney rumors on screamscape as well. They have a little section there but mainly focus on roller coaster parks.

 

[disneysource]

Disney needs this. I think it would provide some needed "balance" so to speak. You can find more disney rumors on screamscape as well. They have a little section there but mainly focus on roller coaster parks.

I agree, it would be great to see a villain park. But I understand that disney would be hesistant because of all the money it would take to create it.

 

[disneysource]

This is how I see the look of Maleficent's castle with Forbidden Mountain. It looks like there is plenty of space for the dragon rollercoaster ride.

 

[Dfan79]

http://www.disunplugged.com/2011/11/17/analysis-a-fifth-theme-park-at-walt-disney-world/

Interesting article about creating a 5th park. I agree with the conclusion that it isn't ideal at this moment cost wise. But it would help with the lines.

 

[Figment632]

The Disney Villians would make a nice expansion of MK but could never sustain an entire Disney quality park.

I don't want a 5th gate but if they do anything it should be a clone of Toyko Disney Sea's.

 

[nytimez]

please... no more clones. stop cloning parks. stop cloning rides. stop cloning shows. stop, stop, stop.

 

[ASteelersMidget]

please... no more clones. stop cloning parks. stop cloning rides. stop cloning shows. stop, stop, stop.

Agreed. Clones are everywhere and i think it's more than anything a cop-out by either the imagineers TDO or both. (though i do believe every Disneyland/MK should have the staples like Space and Splash Mountain)

Just my $0.02

 

[ChrisFL]

The Disney Villians would make a nice expansion of MK but could never sustain an entire Disney quality park.

I don't want a 5th gate but if they do anything it should be a clone of Toyko Disney Sea's.

I disagree, not because I don't think Disney Sea isn't the best theme park ever created (beause it IS) or because I don't like the idea of cloning parks (Seriously, what percentage of WDW visitors actually go to TDR as well? 1% MAYBE??)

I disagree because the Walt Disney company would never spend the kind of money needed to make it right. It would be cheapened and shortened and guests wouldn't like it because there wasn't enough of well-known Disney references.

Disney Sea only works the way it does, because it is in Tokyo.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

please... no more clones. stop cloning parks. stop cloning rides. stop cloning shows. stop, stop, stop.

How about sheep?

 

[charliebrown]

I was told there would be new info....

 

[tjkraz]

The Disney Villians would make a nice expansion of MK but could never sustain an entire Disney quality park.

I don't want a 5th gate but if they do anything it should be a clone of Toyko Disney Sea's.

While I don't see the 5th park happening for all of the reasons voiced here, I actually think the villains theme would hold up quite well. Endless possibilities.

Of course, Disney would risk alienating a large portion of their fan base in the process. It families with young children would avoid it in droves. It would essentially be the anti-Magic Kingdom.

One could argue that teens are a growth market and Disney could make gains with such a park. However, the problem is teens can still enjoy the Magic Kingdom, too, while many parents would never ever take their 0-10 year old child into a park populated by Chernabog and the entire cast of Disney villains.

please... no more clones. stop cloning parks. stop cloning rides. stop cloning shows. stop, stop, stop.

For the most part, I agree. I think some clones are fiscally driven. Putting the new Star Tours in both DL and WDW was a wise decision. The Nemo attractions in DL and WDW are similar and yet different enough to make them unique experiences.

I'm not as crazy about things like Soarin and even Little Mermaid. Great attractions but such deliberate cloning really wasn't necessary, IMO.

Fantasmic is sorely out of place at Hollywood Studios. I cringe at the suggestion that Philharmagic should be replicated at DL or DCA. Really loved the idea that WDW's Toontown was closed since it eliminated an inferior clone.

All of that said, wouldn't mind seeing TDS cloned in its entirety. It's far enough away that most US park guests will never see it. I will probably never see it. Oriental Land Company would probably have something to say about a clone, though.

 

[DrDoofenshmirtz]

Of course, Disney would risk alienating a large portion of their fan base in the process. It families with young children would avoid it in droves. It would essentially be the anti-Magic Kingdom.

One could argue that teens are a growth market and Disney could make gains with such a park. However, the problem is teens can still enjoy the Magic Kingdom, too, while many parents would never ever take their 0-10 year old child into a park populated by Chernabog and the entire cast of Disney villains.

I'd have to disagree with this. Disney brass would have to be unusually foolish to make a Villain Park that's actually scary or anti-family. I'm sure that if Disney built this park, it would be no more threatening than any other park. Disney might want to grow the brand, but they know what their bread and butter is.

Yes, I could see some (2 or 3 perhaps) thrill rides that would be aimed at an older crowd (like ToT or the Xtra-terrestrial was), but the majority of the park would show the Villains as comical and bumbling. Trust me, Disney PR would make a Villain's park as must see for kiddies as everything else on property.

Saying that, I could imagine having something along the lines of MNSSHP at this park, and making that scarier, but only to a point. I can't imagine Disney going as far as say...Universal's Horror Nights.

 

[tjkraz]

They can kid-ify it all they want but there are many who will recoil at the idea of visiting a park structured around the dark villains of the Disney universe.

 

[nytimez]

Two reasons not to build a Disney Sea in Florida (or anywhere else, other than where it is):

1) As mentioned by another poster, Oriental Land is actually willing to spend on its parks. If Disney tried to recreate it here, they would almost certainly cheapen out and not just cut corners, but huge swathes. I think Disney Sea cost something like $4 billion, and that was a decade ago. We were all excited that they might invest a little more than 10 percent of that in Florida for Avatar -- I don't think anyone here would expect a new $4 billion commitment in Florida.

2) Part Disney Sea's mystique is that it's so remote. It's spoken of with great reverence in many cases by people who have never been there and probably never will. It's a once-in-a-lifetime trip for many of the Americans who do go. And, if you do go, you have to go through a considerable amount of time and expense to get there AND deal with jetlag and a very foreign culture -- not to mention language -- once you are there. These things all add to the experience, and not in minor ways.

But it's all moot anyway. They are not building a fifth gate and almost certainly would not build Disney Sea if they ever did build a fifth gate.