Early Booking Rate is illegal lost leader

[cmark]

I have learned that there are few if any early booking rates. (Sorry: its is loss leader not lost leader) Below is my letter I sent to DVC...I as trying to use points, but the facts true for cash also:
Dear Sir or Madam:

On Thursday, August 14, 2009, I called member services about the newly released Adventures by Disney trip to Ecuador and Galapagos Island leaving on June 16-June 25, 2009. I was informed that it would be 594 points per person. I called today to book the trip for my wife and me only to be told that the early booking rate is no longer available. As you are aware, the early booking sheet says that early booking must be done 120 days out. Although it is subject to availability, the trip is still available, but the discounted rate is not.

Then this is not an early booking rate: but a loss leader. (which is illegal under the consumer protection laws in Georgia (my state) and Florida (DVC’s state). I have followed up with Adventures by Disney. This trip is not full: less than 12 people have booked. It only became available to anyone (cash or DVC) on August 1. Yet they say that the early booking rate is no longer available: only 16 days after starting to market the trip. Neither parts of Disney have taken the lost leader off their websites. The loss leader is still being actively used to mislead consumers into contacting Disney for this trip.

I expect to have the trip booked for us at the rate stated today and on Thursday: 594 vacation points each for a total of 1,188 points. I expect a timely response to this demand.

From a marketing stand-point, loss leaders are inconsistent with the excellent reputation that the Disney family has for its vacation businesses. In fact, as a stockholder of Disney, I am disappointed that any division of my company would engage in such conduct.

I must also add that the DVC staff that handled my concerns were very professional! They understood my concerns and did everything in their powers to resolve the issue to my satisfaction. However, they could not (after repeated phone calls by them) get the Adventures by Disney group to correct the lost leader and honor their offer.

 

[redzinner]

I didn't know what a 'lost lead(er)' was so I did some reading. I sincerely hope everything works out for you and you get your trip at the EBD rate.

When you say it is illegal in some states does that apply to the seller's state or/and the buyer's state?

 

[MagicalPins]

If there is an issue with it, I see one easy fix for Disney, no more early booking discounts. Jack up the price for everyone across the board is the more honest way than giving a discount to one person.

 

[cmark]

I am booking a $8000 trip and am mad about spending $800 more. That is really the difference. The vacation I want is listed at a little over $4100 at the early rate. The regular rate is $400 per person more. In talking to the representative, (who refused to tell me how many the early booking rates were available for anyone) he says most people just go ahead and book---even if hoped to get the early booking rate.

The problem I have is that there are no early booking rates available except for the last two weeks of the tour after the tour being available for only 16 days. So, the other 7 tours (including the dates I wanted) are already sold out at the early discount rate. But, there are plenty of regular rate bookings for every tour! It sounds shady!!!! If they are going to find a way to cheat you out of $400 a head at booking, what are they going to hit you up for on the trip? This is very "undisney."

 

[abdmom]

I have learned that there are few if any early booking rates. (Sorry: its is loss leader not lost leader) Below is my letter I sent to DVC...I as trying to use points, but the facts true for cash also:
Dear Sir or Madam:

On Thursday, August 14, 2009, I called member services about the newly released Adventures by Disney trip to Ecuador and Galapagos Island leaving on June 16-June 25, 2009. I was informed that it would be 594 points per person. I called today to book the trip for my wife and me only to be told that the early booking rate is no longer available. As you are aware, the early booking sheet says that early booking must be done 120 days out. Although it is subject to availability, the trip is still available, but the discounted rate is not.

Actually, the ABD website states:

Book early to get a great value on your family adventure! Early Booking Rates apply to bookings made more than 90 days prior to departure. The number of land packages available at these rates is limited.

Adjustment of pricing is a common strategy used in the travel business. Discounts are offered for trips that are not sold out close to departure date. Airfares are all over the place depending on supply and demand.

I couldn't find any references to the illegality of loss leaders. Do you have a website that discusses this?

Were you aware that 1188 DVC points are worth $11880- $15444 on the rental market? Trading them for a $8318 (or $9118) trip is not a good use of the points.

The following table shows the range of prices for this trip. Prices vary within these ranges based primarily on when you book and travel; they are subject to change without notice.
Adult $4,559 - $5,979
Child $4,099 - $5,389

ABD clearly states that the price varies depending on when you book.

 

[trampslady]

I understand your frustration; however, I had no trouble taking advantage of the early booking discount for the Storbook Kingdom tour--and I also took advantage of the savings for our Germany trip next month. Now, the early booking discount for Germany was gone for many of the dates we were interested in when I booked last September, but we found dates that offered the discount and were agreeable to our plans.

If "less than 12" people have booked, that's still quite a few folks when you consider on 35-40 (AND MAYBE LESS FOR THE GALAPAGOS) are on each tour.

 

[jw50]

Then this is not an early booking rate: but a loss leader. (which is illegal under the consumer protection laws in Georgia (my state) and Florida (DVC’s state).

Loss leaders (and it is a real stretch to call the early booking discount a loss leader) are not illegal in GA or FL unless they meet the definition of predatory pricing.

But if you feel ABD is doing something illegal you should file a complaint with the GA Office of Consumer Affairs.

 

[DaddyBrady]

A "loss leader" requires that an item be sold at a price that is below the producer's cost in order to induce purchase of other items. For example, on the Dollar Menu at McDonald's, the double cheeseburger with cheese is sold for a price (a buck) that is less than the cost of producing that cheeseburger. Why would they do that? Because you're also going to buy a coke for a buck and a half, and that only costs them a quarter.

In no manner is offering a discount on a limited number of seats per tour a loss leader. There's no inducement to make another purchase.

As another poster pointed out, neither is a loss leader typically illegal unless it is done in a predatory manner; that is, in order to drive another supplier out of business. For example, if McDonald's started to price it's entire menu below cost for as long as it took to drive the local hamburger shack out of business, then jacking up prices afterwards.

It can certainly be frustrating to see the published early booking discount and the 120 day text, only to discover the limited number of seats actually available. But it's a big stretch from there to accuse The Walt Disney Company of illegal behavior.

 

[WeLoveABD]

Our family has booked 4 trips with ABD so far, and we received the early booking discount each time. Because we understood that only a limited number of spots were available at the discounted rate, we booked two of the trips the first day they were available.

 

[SLK1]

I was very fortunate to get an Early Booking Rate for my Viva Italia trip on June 11, 2009. It's really unfortunate for you to not be able to get it; however I'm not sure I understand the argument. They clearly state that it is limited availability. They hold out only a few of these discounts for each trip. If 12 people already booked that trip, then some of those 12 surely got the discount. Having worked in the hotel business, it's the same thing: a certain number of rooms are available at certain rates and once those are gone, the next rate kicks in.

 

[Momof3greatkids]

We were disappointed last year when we discovered that there where so few EBD's for each trip. The literature was confusing, and seemed to us to indicate that as long as you booked 120 days out you would get the discount. We changed our trip to Costa Rica last year to get an EBD, and are going on our original choice Quest for the West this year, after booking on the first day it was available to get the EBD. I know the policy has been confusing for people, and it is very disappointing to think that you can get a trip for one price and then learn that it will cost significantly more than you thought.

 

[rkdahl]

I guess I don't see anything different in what ABD does with the EBD than any other travel industry deal (airlines, hotels, etc). They sell a certain number of items (seats, rooms, etc) at a discount. When those are gone they sell the next item (seats, rooms, etc) at a higher rate. That is pretty standard isn't it?

My understanding of the early booking discount has nothing to do with how early you book. It's the allocation of discounted 'slots' that each adventure has. Once those slots are filled, no more early booking discount.

It's similar to airline seat pricing, you see a fare sale, check out the available seats, once those seats are sold the sale is gone. You can still fly on that flight but you'll pay more than the guy sitting next to you. You'd be amazed at how many different price points there are on any given aircraft, and they each have a specific number of seats allocated to each one of those fares. Once those seats are sold at that price, the only thing left are seats at more expensive fares.

Sounds like ABD has now implemented a similar model. Once the EBD is gone the 'fare' changes and once there are only a certain number of slots left on any given tour they are going to increase the 'fare' yet again starting in 2009. Certainly encourages "early booking" doesn't it?

So...as usual, timing is everything!

 

[slg]

I booked our trip on the August 1, I was the second call in!

I was told that EBD was only for the first 20%. Well, that works out to the first 8 out of 40!

They are just following the model they have on their cruises. Then the next 20% will be at the next rate, etc. etc., until the ABD is booked.

Since we are a family of 5, I was glad that we were the second to call, as I don't think we would have booked if it was even $100 more.

 

[Bobo912]

But, there are plenty of regular rate bookings for every tour! It sounds shady!!!! If they are going to find a way to cheat you out of $400 a head at booking, what are they going to hit you up for on the trip? This is very "undisney."

I'm sorry you're having a bad experience and I hope it works out for you. I don't have any comment on your EBD issues, but I did want to make the comment that on my trip, at least, Disney did not "hit me up" for another cent on the trip.

 

[dingoballs]

I am booking a $8000 trip and am mad about spending $800 more. That is really the difference. The vacation I want is listed at a little over $4100 at the early rate. The regular rate is $400 per person more. In talking to the representative, (who refused to tell me how many the early booking rates were available for anyone) he says most people just go ahead and book---even if hoped to get the early booking rate.

The problem I have is that there are no early booking rates available except for the last two weeks of the tour after the tour being available for only 16 days. So, the other 7 tours (including the dates I wanted) are already sold out at the early discount rate. But, there are plenty of regular rate bookings for every tour! It sounds shady!!!! If they are going to find a way to cheat you out of $400 a head at booking, what are they going to hit you up for on the trip? This is very "undisney."

These Adventures are getting more and more popular, so the key is to book as early as possible. We booked as soon as they opened the phone lines on August 1st, and we were able to get both the Early Booking and Loyalty discounts for our Galapagos trip.

Another factor to consider is the specific Adventure. Some itineraries have several dozen dates to choose from, while others (like the Galapagos trip) only have 6 trips total. This obviously affects the number of EBDs offered. But if you're able to be flexible, there is always the possibility that another date will have the EBD available. And no, Disney did not hit us up for any extra or hidden costs...

 

[tfc3rid]

What kind of loyalty discounts do they have?

 

[pipch]

I agree with most of the comments. Disney is only doing what airlines do - the earlier you book often the cheaper the seater - book an AA business class seat 10 months out and then make the comparison 6 weeks out and you will see its almost double the price.

As an ex hotelier I also appreciate disney is using this as a tool to create interest, generate early sales and as an indicator in the interest in its itineraries. They have contracts with hotels and need to assess early on the projected uptake on the trips, so they can cancel the trips at minimum cost.


Also Lets be honest look how many of us were waiting for August 1st and how many booked straight away because of the EBD.

It is beneficial to US and disney.

However I also agree that the web site is misleading. They should remove the line about the length of time because the reality is now with the popularity nearly all EBD's are going to go early on.
For just three of us with the loyalty bonus it was a saving of $1500 - pays for the airfares!!

 

[dingoballs]

What kind of loyalty discounts do they have?

It's $100 per person for repeat guests...

 

[kristilew]

We also had no problem getting the EBD, booking on the second day the trips were offered.

I will say, though, that if one was not following along on the DIS, or checking the ABD website, one might have missed when they offered the new trips. Just two days ago, so on August 16, we received a letter from ABD telling us they wanted us to be among the "first to know" about their 2009 trips, and touting an early booking discount. If that had been my only notice that new trips were out, I'm sure I would have missed the EBD.

I think they were just taken by surprise that so many people were ready to book on day one. There has probably been a lot of concern in the travel industry with the economy the way it is. But I do NOT think they had false adverstising at all. It was clear on their website that the EBD was limited - how is this any different than a store having specials on Black Friday, and when they're gone, they are gone?

Perhaps next year, we will all get letters telling us that the dates are about to be released....Either way, I'm sure we'll be on top of it already thanks to the DIS

 

[2RGR8]

Being a new "DIS" follower, I didn't know August 1st was "D" day. I had been checking periodically throughout the summer for the 2009 dates and happened to look on August 7th and saw the dates were available. Even booking on this day, we were able to get the EBD for the June 22nd K&L trip. I think its all about being flexible if you're able to.