Enthusiastic about Genie+ touring

[MrWreckless]

Yes, they demonstrate near certainty that it will be horrible. Without considering the very real possibility that it will be better than FP+.

It’s like they are so sour on Disney, they are convinced that Disney decided to introduce a worse system AND charge for it.
Without considering the likelihood that Disney insignificantly IMPROVED the system they are now charging for.

Well they removed DME, Extended hours, FP+, and added a parking fee while increasing the cost of on site stays, so its not outside the realm of possibility.

 

[havoc315]

Well they removed DME, Extended hours, and FP+ while increasing the cost of on site stays, so its not outside the realm of possibility.

They did indeed remove DME.

Arguably, they improved morning extended hours — 30 minutes every park, everyday. As opposed to the occasional hour in just 1 park.
And evening extra hours will be improved for deluxe guests, as they should be far less crowded.

Not every change is a negative.

 

[mixtli]

With FP+ you had to stay onsite for many days to get the most popular rides before entering the parks or you had to rely either on drop times or constant refreshing .Newcomers and off-site guests were at a huge disadvantage. It worked well but I always felt I was sharing more time in the parks with my phone than with my wife and kids. I will gladly pay for Genie + if I can avoid that . Refreshing was atrocious for quality family time.

 

[JZCubed]

I'm not sure I'm following your point. You were arguing that standby lines were longer than ever with no FP+ in place. Yet everything else you listed explains exactly why that is - no shows/meets, no staff, one water park closed, etc. Once the pandemic protocols are lifted and things go to a new "normal", standby lines will go back down. Attendance may have been lower than average this time of year because of what you described, but it wasn't significantly so. These residual closures/shortages surely impacted the standby lines. Comparing that to how things will be with Genie+ is comparing apples to oranges. A better comparison would be in pre-pandemic times when FP+ was in place.

Long lines does not mean Disney was crowded.

Long lines were because Disney let in more people than they could service.

You miss the point about Standby.

Without any Fast Past, standby lines should have run with the greatest of ease…..because the argument is Fast Pass slows Standby.

if there was no FastPass, which there wasn’t any, Standby should never have had long waits.

Genie +/- will not repair that.

Disney controls the number of admissions and ride capacity (within limits). These determine actual crowds in the Parks.

Further, Genie has a stated mission to lower the amount of crisscrossing around a Park - the result would be more people on lines, not less.

Any express system would have made Standby lines longer. Previously, on-site guests received Fast Pass advantages included in the price of their hotel rate, now, everyone gets to pay a la carte for any ride advantage.

On-site guests (and annual passholders) lose from the new equation; off-site guests gain with greater access. Regardless, every customers will be paying more to Disney.

 

[JZCubed]

They did indeed remove DME.

Arguably, they improved morning extended hours — 30 minutes every park, everyday. As opposed to the occasional hour in just 1 park.
And evening extra hours will be improved for deluxe guests, as they should be far less crowded.

Not every change is a negative.

Park hours at Disney World are currently less than Disneyland.

Disney has shortened DisneyWorld hours into the foreseeable future.

Even with the generosity of daily EMH in the 2 Parks, Florida Disney operating hours are less than previous years and current hours in CA (with more Covid restrictions than FL).

 

[nkereina]

Long lines does not mean Disney was crowded.

Long lines were because Disney let in more people than they could service.

You miss the point about Standby.

Without any Fast Past, standby lines should have run with the greatest of ease…..because the argument is Fast Pass slows Standby.

if there was no FastPass, which there wasn’t any, Standby should never have had long waits.

Like I said above, even if they were statistically less people in the parks this summer than in pre-pandemic times, it doesn't mean it was empty. There's still people in the park. And those people have fewer places to go and things are moving at a slower pace due to staffing shortages, cleanings, etc. So while park attendance may be less, that does not equate to short standby lines. Not when the other variables (closures, shortages, etc) are working against that.

If everything was open, all shows and meet and greets were on, all restaurants were operating, everything was fully staffed... then yeah, I'd agree standby should be moving quickly with fewer people in the park. But that's simply not the scenario right now. People have less places to go.

 

[JZCubed]

Like I said above, even if they were statistically less people in the parks this summer than in pre-pandemic times, it doesn't mean it was empty. There's still people in the park. And those people have fewer places to go and things are moving at a slower pace due to staffing shortages, cleanings, etc. So while park attendance may be less, that does not equate to short standby lines. Not when the other variables (closures, shortages, etc) are working against that.

If everything was open, all shows and meet and greets were on, all restaurants were operating, everything was fully staffed... then yeah, I'd agree standby should be moving quickly with fewer people in the park. But that's simply not the scenario right now. People have less places to go.

Should airlines overbook?

Should restaurants cram extra tables in the aisles if they overbook?

“Sorry, but we just rented your hotel room to someone who showed up last minute but was willing to pay more than you. And we are otherwise completely sold out.”

Does that sound ok to you?

Disney had choices - reduce admissions and/or hire more staff…..to deliver a positive customer experience. They did none.

But if you’d like to pay more, maybe they’ll deliver that same level of service (albeit, over fewer Park hours) - while you also pay for parking, and magic bands, etc.

 

[MrWreckless]

They did indeed remove DME.

Arguably, they improved morning extended hours — 30 minutes every park, everyday. As opposed to the occasional hour in just 1 park.
And evening extra hours will be improved for deluxe guests, as they should be far less crowded.

Not every change is a negative.

Unfortunately for me (and countles others) I'm a moderate guest who doesn't wake up early on vacation. I'm also paying for parking now which is a joy.

 

[JZCubed]

Yes, they demonstrate near certainty that it will be horrible. Without considering the very real possibility that it will be better than FP+.

It’s like they are so sour on Disney, they are convinced that Disney decided to introduce a worse system AND charge for it.
Without considering the likelihood that Disney insignificantly IMPROVED the system they are now charging for.

Better for whom?

 

[gharter]

Without any Fast Past, standby lines should have run with the greatest of ease…..because the argument is Fast Pass slows Standby.

if there was no FastPass, which there wasn’t any, Standby should never have had long waits.

Sort of.
Online posts from CMs who worked at WDW, when FP+ was around, they had instructions to let about 10 people in FP+ in to every 2 in Standby, if they had people in FP. That certainly slowed down the standby line.
This summer, the long lines and waits were due to not enough staff to run at full capacity and downtime for cleaning. You could have gotten the line to a manageable number, but then shut down for 15 minutes for cleaning, and the line builds quickly. Some may have been preventable, some wasn't.

 

[havoc315]

Better for whom?

Better for me. And Disney wholly expects this will drive their guest satisfaction upwards. And that will really be the test of whether it’s “better.”
spoiler alert— FP+ never got great guest satisfaction numbers internally.

 

[nkereina]

Should airlines overbook?

Should restaurants cram extra tables in the aisles if they overbook?

“Sorry, but we just rented your hotel room to someone who showed up last minute but was willing to pay more than you. And we are otherwise completely sold out.”

Does that sound ok to you?

Disney had choices - reduce admissions and/or hire more staff…..to deliver a positive customer experience. They did none.

But if you’d like to pay more, maybe they’ll deliver that same level of service (albeit, over fewer Park hours) - while you also pay for parking, and magic bands, etc.

Airlines do overbook to subsidize the cost. Restaurants are capped by limited physical capacity. Different scenarios.

Its your opinion that Disney allowed in more than they should when they are short staffed and offering a diminished experience. That's probably true. But they are a for-profit business in a deficit after the pandemic. Just like every other industry. The writing has been on the wall for quite sometime that consumer's experiences will be at the bottom of the priority list in every industry while businesses try to climb out of their respective holes. Disney is no different.

I certainly don't want to pay more - who does? But you can either make the best of it or stop giving them your business. Disney's world - literally and figuratively - will keep turning. Since Genie+ will become status quo by this time next year, why not look for the positives at least? I think Genie+ is a win-win - it produces revenue for Disney who can leverage an existing platform, while giving guests added flexibility (something we had lost with FP+) and a potentially more seamless/easier experience, once the kinks are worked out and questions are answered.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

Yes, they demonstrate near certainty that it will be horrible. Without considering the very real possibility that it will be better than FP+.

Which, ironically, is exactly what happened when FP+ rolled out. When FP+ was first announced there were lots of people who insisted prior to it's actual release that it was going to be terrible. The biggest gripe was that you could "only" get 3 FPs in a day. In practice, we all figured out how to get 4+ after using the first three.

I'd be the first to admit that all of these systems have their pros and cons. The biggest drawback that I see in G+ is that it will now cost extra. But it appears that G+ will likely function very similar to legacy FP (without the paper FPs). As someone who was a legacy FP "uber user" and then a FP+ "uber user," I feel pretty confident that we'll figure out how to maximize the effectiveness of G+.

Other than the cost, the biggest concern I (and presumably many others) have is whether G+ will provide as many short waits as the FP+ system did (especially since it now costs extra). I'm optimistic that G+ will provide a decent number of LL opportunities throughout the day. If not, then it's not worth the extra cost and we would cease using it.

 

[Tyler's Dad]

Sort of.
Online posts from CMs who worked at WDW, when FP+ was around, they had instructions to let about 10 people in FP+ in to every 2 in Standby, if they had people in FP. That certainly slowed down the standby line.
This summer, the long lines and waits were due to not enough staff to run at full capacity and downtime for cleaning. You could have gotten the line to a manageable number, but then shut down for 15 minutes for cleaning, and the line builds quickly. Some may have been preventable, some wasn't.

That’s what most people don’t understand. Yes standby lines moved a little slower this Summer, but rides were shutdown to clean every other hour as well. That builds line times.

 

[havoc315]

Which, ironically, is exactly what happened when FP+ rolled out. When FP+ was first announced there were lots of people who insisted prior to it's actual release that it was going to be terrible. The biggest gripe was that you could "only" get 3 FPs in a day. In practice, we all figured out how to get 4+ after using the first three.

I'd be the first to admit that all of these systems have their pros and cons. The biggest drawback that I see in G+ is that it will now cost extra. But it appears that G+ will likely function very similar to legacy FP (without the paper FPs). As someone who was a legacy FP "uber user" and then a FP+ "uber user," I feel pretty confident that we'll figure out how to maximize the effectiveness of G+.

I’ll admit I’m the opposite of many others. I was really enthusiastic about FP+ when announced, but grew to mostly dislike it. I’m optimistic about something more similar to the old system.

 

[JZCubed]

Better for me. And Disney wholly expects this will drive their guest satisfaction upwards. And that will really be the test of whether it’s “better.”
spoiler alert— FP+ never got great guest satisfaction numbers internally.

I’ll repeat myself - if guest satisfaction could be aggregated, in my opinion, there will not be any net gain from switching from FP to Genie.

Every new system creates winners and losers.

Disney may gain your pleasure, but lose mine.

I may spend more each day my family goes to Disney, but the need to arise every morning to maximize my vacation will be met with substituting Universal for Disney in the planning phase.

Disney may get a higher ‘check average’ from my family, but we’ll be spending less time in their dining rooms.

While (I doubt) my satisfaction will go up with Genie & Lightning Lanes relative to FP, my total spend at Disney will go down - to indicate my displeasure.

And while you & I may be able to afford spending more money, I’ll bet the price increases are already keeping folks away who can no longer have their satisfaction level checked - because they are no longer guests.

 

[luv2cheer92]

That’s what most people don’t understand. Yes standby lines moved a little slower this Summer, but rides were shutdown to clean every other hour as well. That builds line times.

They haven't been cleaning the rides like they were doing last summer.

 

[ComeToSocialize]

Everyone can and will have different opinions here. Setting aside the cost (which also will matter more to some than others), I felt that Maxpass was a much better system than FP+, so view this change positively. As such, I think the OP is right if the G+ experience ends up being like the Maxpass experience, most people are going to end up liking G+ better, and concerns about waking up at 7am or only being able to get on 1-2 rides are unwarranted.

However, we don’t know if the G+ experience in WDW is going to be like Maxpass. First, other than MK, WDW has far fewer rides per park than Disneyland, particularly when factoring in that most Maxpass users (myself at least) view DL and DCA as one large park. That constrains availability. Further, taking away the top 2 rides and putting them on a separate system will even further constrain availability. Balancing this, not everyone is going to be buying G+, whereas in the Maxpass days there was the free option also competing for spots. We don’t know how those competing factors will shake out.

 

[havoc315]

I’ll repeat myself - if guest satisfaction could be aggregated, in my opinion, there will be not any net gain from switching from FP to Genie.

Every new system creates winners and losers.

Of course there are always winners and losers. But, I've heard from some inside sources, that DL MaxPass had much higher guest satisfaction numbers than WDW FP+. Which is a big part of why they are making this switch.

 

[Toolulu22]

I certainly don't want to pay more - who does? But you can either make the best of it or stop giving them your business. Disney's world - literally and figuratively - will keep turning. Since Genie+ will become status quo by this time next year, why not look for the positives at least? I think Genie+ is a win-win - it produces revenue for Disney who can leverage an existing platform, while giving guests added flexibility (something we had lost with FP+) and a potentially more seamless/easier experience, once the kinks are worked out and questions are answered.

You make a good point. I don’t particularly want to pay more, but we spend less vacation time at WDW and pay what we need to in order to enjoy our time. We definitely maximize our time by rope dropping on most days that we plan to be in the parks, and will pay the Genie +/LL to do what we want in less time. We buy park Hopper plus tickets for about 1/2 (or less) days that we’ll be at Disney- and go to the water parks, putt putt, golf, pool, DS on other days. It helps subsidize the extra cost of the extra fees for G+/LL etc.

And while I will research and plan specific things for a vacation, I was not a fan of the ADR 180 days out, 60 days FP+. I know many people on these boards liked to do that, but not me. I would change my reservations constantly and hated the stress for what was to be a vacation. I just felt like I had to have reservations for something, or I wouldn’t have anything. I left many a FP+ on the table unused back in the day when we were given an extra FP for some reason, just because we changed plans midday.

Except the running around the park, I liked the old paper FP method better than FP+, so I’m looking forward to trying Genie/LL. I also think it will be better for infrequent visitors, who are not as experienced with Disney and would get shut out of FP+ for any of the popular rides months before they arrived. On our last trip, I felt for those who spent hundreds on tix for their families to face 2 hour lines or more for headliners.