External flashes

[handicap18]

the 3 things the promaster and metz had that the 430 didn't have were an additonal light for fill( so 2 lights), a modeling light ( which i found out lets you know where shadows will fall with out having to take the photo) and a strob feature which i just thought might be kind of fun. i 'd get the metz if i weren't 100 more than all the others. i can't seem to find if the 430 has high synch flash or not. it does have second curtain synch which i also wanted.
a site i read, smart shooter recommended the promaster but not the 580 for the rebel xt and metz recommended the 54mz for the rebel...

so nobody has used the promaster huh?

Since all this time thus far with the camera but no speedlight flash, are all these features something that you think you'll use a lot or even a little bit?

I know I tend to at first look at all the potential features of something, but after a short time come to realize that I really wont ever use them or would hardly ever use them so I don't really need them.

For additional fill light I'm happy just using the flash with a diffuser on it and that fills everything enough for me. To me using a lot of the extra stuff is a bit overkill. Unless you want to set up some sort of studio type setup then you'll need extra stuff, but even then you'd probably get bigger lights.

That being said, as I always say,,,, in the end the decision is yours.

Happy shopping.

 

[mabas9395]

The 430ex does have high speed synch. Use it all the time. No modeling light though. Strobe feature might be fun but I wouldn't pay more for it.

 

[jann1033]

that's the problem...i can get the metz off my list pretty fast due to cost but the promaster is less than the canon
i understand what you mean kyle..i do the same thing...i guess i just don't know. i hadn't really thought of a flash as anything more than a light source..now i'm thinking hmm could i use this some unique ways...
i was all set to get the 430( actually thought i did get it but got the wrong one) till i started looking around, the curse of being detail oriented and having to examine every last purchase to the nth degree hmmm,,,maybe that goes beyond detail oriented

 

[ndelaware]

I bought the 580 for my XT. It has performed as expected, which is wonderfully. I can light up all of Liberty Square at 10pm with it, without blowing out the first person in a white t-shirt. I bought because it has a longer flash range than the rest and the super fast recycle time.

 

[ndelaware]

The 430 EZ has been discountinued for a long time. Thankfully who ever sold it to you is a reasonable person.

 

[jann1033]

can any external flash be used for fill flash..the metz 54 mz has a second light that someone said was could be used for fill flash( small light in front of unit, not on the flash head)...so how does fill flash work with out that second light?

 

[tinksdad]

Sure it can! A fill light is just that.... FILL! So if your main/key light is providing the major portion of the light needed for the subject, the fill light is used to fill the shadows on the flip side of the subject. A fill light is usually stopped down to not balance the key, but to soften shadows.

A fill light could be your strobe (on camera or off) that fills the subjects shadows using natural light source, ie; sun.

Those Metz54 look pretty nice. My understanding is that the main strobe can be bounced from above or from the side and the smaller "fill" light on the front gives that shadow fill from the front of the flash used from the on-camera position.

 

[jann1033]

i know, i have definite flash envy for the metz...almost wish i hadn't seen that one, then the 430ex would have been just peachy.... I keep thinking it's less than $150 more for the one i really want ie trying to convenience myself it's worth it ...even though i have never used external flash before and basically have no idea what so ever how to do so wish i wasn't so stinkin practical all the time

 

[DueyDooDah]

...even though i have never used external flash before and basically have no idea what so ever how to do so wish i wasn't so stinkin practical all the time

So, let me see if I understand. You bought a flash, you've never used a flash, and you want another. Is that right? You are my kinda photographer. We would get along great.

 

[jann1033]

So, let me see if I understand. You bought a flash, you've never used a flash, and you want another. Is that right? You are my kinda photographer. We would get along great.

no no not quite there yet, just want to buy one more advanced than i know how to use...then after i buy it not doubt i 'll see another one i want but at present still on "step 1" of the process

 

[tinksdad]

I've learned over the years that you get what you pay for!! Sometimes a deal will keep you satisfied, but the REAL deal is a piece of equipment that will do what you need it to do without problem, time after time!!

I'd go for it!! You won't regret it, AND you end of finding all kinds of ways to use it!!!! Come one, it's time to step out of your mold!!!

 

[extreme8]

That Metz is a nice piece of hardware.
Until I made the jump from Minolta to Nikon that flash was next on my list of purchases. It was claimed to offer much better flash metering & eliminate pre-flash when not using it in TTL modes.
I haven't been tempted since because the SB-800 is really great and I like the simplicity of the wireless flash capability it offers.

You can add 1 more item to your "pro" column when weighing the advantages of this flash - the programmable and interchangeable flash control module/hot shoe.
As technology changes or if you should ever decide to change camera brands this flash should never become obsolete because you can just replace the module. Getting a Nikon, change to a Nikon module and the flash will work; 5 years from now Canon goes to some new TTL technology, change the module.
You get to avoid the camera companies planned obsolesence!

 

[jann1033]

now's it's between the metz 54 and speedlight 580...i was thinking of maybe the sigma if i get the speedlight since i don't see much difference in the specs between them except some don't review it as well, a few who i think know what they are talking about said it's fine. i just always feel like canon is overpriced plus i read( maybe on here, i have read so many flash articles my head is ready to explode) canon are made by outside sources so i wonder what quality control will be like

the only things i can see that the 580 ex speedlight has that the metz doesn't is, 58 instead of 54 guide#, which i don't know if that is enough to make a big difference or not, the flash exposure bracketing and the catch light reflector thing (the metz has a secondary reflector, not sure if that is the same).but the metz has the front light which for some reason i really like and i 've seen better reviews for it, i know the weather proofing is supposed to be better than some(not sure if the speedlight is good or not, can;t remember) and i do think the changeable module thing is a great idea...i know i'll want to move up before to long from my rebel xt and i don't know if enough will change that it would make the flash not work or not so that is a good thing
i guess i 'll have to read some more reviews or something...they are almost identical pricewise. supposedly i won some contest and am supposed to get $450 in a web cert. so i'll probably buy it with that when i get it anyway so it's really "free" which is why i figured i should buy the better unit now

 

[fitzperry]

Which should I get? Ken Rockwell (I know, I know, but he's got some sweet pics of his new baby on the website ) says that the 600 is a waste of money (though I notice he does have a few shots of the baby taken with the 600 instead of the 400). But I'm a little bugged by the fact that it doesn't tilt sideways, so you can't bounce it off the ceiling if you're shooting in portrait orientation. OTOH, I like the idea of a smaller (and less expensive) flash because I'm kinda lazy and prefer not to haul around any more than is absolutely necessary. I figure I'd be more likely to have the 400 around when I need it.

Any thoughts?

 

[KrazyPete]

I just bought the SB-600 to go with my D80 last weekend. I read Ken's review and had the same debate with myself that you are having.

I think it really comes down to how creative you want to get with the lighting. Ken is probably right when it comes to everyday snapshots, save the money and get the lighter weight SB-400.

However, I like to move my light source around a bit. The SB-600 will act as a wireless slave flash. You put the SB-600 in "remote" mode and the camera's built in flash in "commander" mode (see note below). The camera will send metering information to the SB-600 in a series of very fast pre-flashes and signal it when to fire. So you can use both of your flashes at the same time or set the camera flash to not fire during the exposure and use just the one remote light source from the SB-600.

I think you have more creative control with the SB-600 as an on-camera flash too. The controls and LCD display let you quickly make changes to the focus and output level. So when I take a shot I can glance at the camera screen to check the light and make adjustments on the flash. It's much faster than if I had to find the flash settings in the camera's sub-menus.

Note on wireless "Commander" mode: I know that my D80's built-in flash can be set up as a wireless commander. The SB-600's documentation also mentions the D70 and cameras with Nikon's CLS (Creative Lighting System) for this as well. Check your camera's documention to be sure. On the D80, the setting is under Menu > Custom Setting > Built-In Flash > Commander Mode

Greg

Edit: I found an article on Ken's site about wireless flashes that specifically talks about the SB-600 and SB-800. How to Use Nikon Strobes Wirelessly, for Free!

 

[tinksdad]

I've got the SB-800, SB-24 and SB-28 and use them all for different purposes. The SB-600 and the 800 does the iTTL and the Creative Lighting System which works pretty well. The 600 does not have a remote cord attachment so I ruled it out. Even the older units have that and work well with Pocket Wizards or with a sync cord for off camera flash. If you're never going to use the strobe off the camera hot shoe then either one would be a decent choice, neither one of those units have that option but the SB-600 will be more versatile and has more features.

The CLS is pretty interesting, but I found myself needing more control and liked placing the strobe in places (around corners, etc) that the pre-flash didn't pick up and wouldn't fire the strobe.

Check out Thom Hogans comparison on several models.

 

[fitzperry]

Thanks for the advice.

I think it really comes down to how creative you want to get with the lighting. Ken is probably right when it comes to everyday snapshots, save the money and get the lighter weight SB-400.

However, I like to move my light source around a bit. The SB-600 will act as a wireless slave flash. You put the SB-600 in "remote" mode and the camera's built in flash in "commander" mode (see note below). The camera will send metering information to the SB-600 in a series of very fast pre-flashes and signal it when to fire. So you can use both of your flashes at the same time or set the camera flash to not fire during the exposure and use just the one remote light source from the SB-600.

This is the other factor that has me stumped. At this point I'm not sure I see myself getting too creative with the lighting. I much prefer to shoot in natural light. But then again, 3 or 4 years ago I didn't see myself with a dslr and a growing kit of lenses and other paraphernalia, so I hate to limit myself. Hmmmmm. . . . .

 

[Geoff_M]

A co-worker asked me about this decision and I recommended the 600 in a heartbeat. Right out of the gate, the 600 packs more "punch", there's no way to do vertical bounce with the 400, and the 400 only takes two AA's so you'll be more likely to need to carry extra batteries with you with the 400.

Personally, I think Rockwell is mostly a joke. Bring his name up in a group of pro shooters, and laughter will ensue. Here's a site that's decided that Ken is the "Chuck Norris" of photography:

# Ken Rockwell is the Chuck Norris of photography

# Ken Rockwell's camera has similar settings to ours, except his are: P[erfect] Av[Awesome Priority Tv[Totally Awesome Priority] M[ajestic]

# Ken Rockwell doesn't color correct. He adjusts your world to match his.

# Sure, Ken Rockwell deletes a bad photo or two. Other people call these Pulitzers.

# Ken Rockwell doesn't adjust his DOF, he changes space-time.

# Circle of confusion? You might be confused. Ken Rockwell never is.

# Ken Rockwell doesn't wait for the light when he shoots a landscape - the light waits for him.

# Ken Rockwell never flips his camera in portrait position, he flips the earth

# Ken Rockwell ordered an L-lens from Nikon, and got one.

# Ken Rockwell is the only person to have photographed Jesus; unfortunately he ran out of film and had to use a piece of cloth instead.

# When Ken Rockwell brackets a shot, the three versions of the photo win first place in three different categories

# Before Nikon or Canon releases a camera they go to Ken and they ask him to test them, the best cameras get a Nikon sticker and the less good get a Canon sticker

# Once Ken tested a camera, he said I cant even put Canon on this one,thats how Pentax was born

# Rockwellian policy isn't doublethink - Ken doesn't even need to think once

# Ken Rockwell doesn't use flash ever since the Nagasaki incident.

# Only Ken Rockwell can take pictures of Ken Rockwell; everyone else would just get their film overexposed by the light of his genius

# Ken Rockwell wanted something to distract the lesser photographers, and lo, there were ducks.

# Ken Rockwell is the only one who can take self-portraits of you

# Ken Rockwell's nudes were fully clothed at the time of exposure

# Ken Rockwell once designed a zoom lens. You know it as the Hubble SpaceTelescope.

# When Ken unpacks his CF card, it already has masterpieces on it.

# Rockwell portraits are so lifelike, they have to pay taxes

# On Ken Rockwell's desktop, the Trash Icon is really a link to National Geographic Magazine

# Ken Rockwell spells point-and-shoot "h-a-s-s-e-l-b-l-a-d"

# When Ken Rockwell went digital, National Geographic nearly went out of business because he was no longer phyically discarding photos

# For every 10 shots that Ken Rockwell takes, 11 are keepers.

# Ken Rockwell's digital files consist of 0's, 1's AND 2's.

# Ken Rockwell never focus, everything moves into his DoF

# Ken Rockwell's shots are so perfect, Adobe redesigned photoshop for him: all it consists of is a close button.

# The term tripod was coined after his silhouette

# Ken Rockwell never produces awful work, only work too advanced for the viewer

# A certain braind of hig-end cameras was named after people noticed the quality was a lot "like a" rockwell

# Ken Rockwell isn't the Chuck Norris of photography; Chuck Norris is the Ken Rockwell of martial arts.

# Ken Rockwell never starts, he continues

Link

 

[KrazyPete]

The 600 does not have a remote cord attachment so I ruled it out. Even the older units have that and work well with Pocket Wizards or with a sync cord for off camera flash.

Remote cords and sync cords are available for the SB-600.
Nikon USA: SB-600 AF Speedlight Accessories

The 800 has built in sockets but I'm pretty sure the 600 can be used as a corded remote with the right accessories. I don't use it this way so maybe I'm missing something?

 

[tinksdad]

Remote cords and sync cords are available for the SB-600.
Nikon USA: SB-600 AF Speedlight Accessories

The 800 has built in sockets but I'm pretty sure the 600 can be used as a corded remote with the right accessories. I don't use it this way so maybe I'm missing something?

Your right, the 600 can be connected with a sync cord but you have to buy an additional part. Most of the other offerings have a connection built in.

Geoff statement about vertical bouncing is really good. When I'm shooting with the strobe on the camera, it's almost always pointed up to bounce off the ceiling. The lighting is better and gives the subject a smooth lighting with some contrast versus the flat light of a face on flash.