"Fake" service animal owners now face jail time in FL (from Pete's solo show)

I serve on the Board of a religious organization and the fake service animal issue was something we had to deal with for quite some time. One of our more difficult members had a dog that he insisted was a service animal but it was 100% clearly not. The dog was completely untrained. He (the dog) would not follow the owner's instructions. He would eat food off of tables. He would urinate and defecate in the building. And the dog clearly had his own medical issues (confirmed by a fellow Board member who is a veterinarian). Of course, the owner had a "service animal" vest that he put on the dog, but anyone can buy those online for a few dollars.

The problem we faced was that it was nearly impossible to legally ban this dog from the facility. As Pete pointed out, you can't require any type of proof that the dog is trained as an actual service animal. Basically, because the guy said it was, we had to take his word for it even though we knew it was a lie. We worked with our lawyers for several years before we finally got this dog banned from the building as a health hazard due to not being housebroken and having fleas.

I sincerely hope Disney stays on top of this and it doesn't become an issue in the parks. The place is just too darn crowded for people who don't legitimately need them to be bringing in their dogs, especially ones that aren't well-trained to perform in that type of environment. I'd hate to see some kid (or adult) get bitten by a dog who gets spooked by the crowds and noise.
 
I serve on the Board of a religious organization and the fake service animal issue was something we had to deal with for quite some time. One of our more difficult members had a dog that he insisted was a service animal but it was 100% clearly not. The dog was completely untrained. He (the dog) would not follow the owner's instructions. He would eat food off of tables. He would urinate and defecate in the building. And the dog clearly had his own medical issues (confirmed by a fellow Board member who is a veterinarian). Of course, the owner had a "service animal" vest that he put on the dog, but anyone can buy those online for a few dollars.

The problem we faced was that it was nearly impossible to legally ban this dog from the facility. As Pete pointed out, you can't require any type of proof that the dog is trained as an actual service animal. Basically, because the guy said it was, we had to take his word for it even though we knew it was a lie. We worked with our lawyers for several years before we finally got this dog banned from the building as a health hazard due to not being housebroken and having fleas.

I sincerely hope Disney stays on top of this and it doesn't become an issue in the parks. The place is just too darn crowded for people who don't legitimately need them to be bringing in their dogs, especially ones that aren't well-trained to perform in that type of environment. I'd hate to see some kid (or adult) get bitten by a dog who gets spooked by the crowds and noise.


So sorry to hear that
sounds like there are people out there who are taking advantage of the 'system'

you can ask the owner and animal to leave if they are causing trouble, causing or attempting to cause harm, or if the owner is not taking action to control the animal.
it's completely legal to ask them to leave..the ADA allows this
However, I'm sure you will have to deal with some sort of 'backlash' from the party to are asking to leave.
 
you can ask the owner and animal to leave if they are causing trouble, causing or attempting to cause harm, or if the owner is not taking action to control the animal.
it's completely legal to ask them to leave..the ADA allows this
However, I'm sure you will have to deal with some sort of 'backlash' from the party to are asking to leave.
Exactly - the backlash issue. So we tell the guy (who is legitimately disabled by the way) not to bring the dog. The next week he shows up again with the dog. What do we do? Call the police? Nope. We spoke to the police and they said there was nothing they could do because he isn't technically breaking any laws. He's not trespassing since he is a paying member of the organization. And they have no more power to question the dog's service animal status than we do. What option does that leave? Physically dragging this guy and his dog out of the building? That wouldn't go over well. So in came the guy and his dog week after week after week.

It's a very, very difficult issue. Again, I hope it isn't one that becomes a problem at Disney World.
 
Exactly - the backlash issue. So we tell the guy (who is legitimately disabled by the way) not to bring the dog. The next week he shows up again with the dog. What do we do? Call the police? Nope. We spoke to the police and they said there was nothing they could do because he isn't technically breaking any laws. He's not trespassing since he is a paying member of the organization. And they have no more power to question the dog's service animal status than we do. What option does that leave? Physically dragging this guy and his dog out of the building? That wouldn't go over well. So in came the guy and his dog week after week after week.

It's a very, very difficult issue. Again, I hope it isn't one that becomes a problem at Disney World.


Yes, we agree it's a hard issue to deal with.

having my father spend the last few years of his life in a wheelchair and disabled
the world really is not built for those living with disabilities

as Pete pointed out...there are so many disabilities that have not physical signs
so people just natural assume since they look and act like you and me...they are not disabled.

I can't even imagine (even after being the primary caregiver for my father with around the clock care) what people go through who suffer from a disability.
Even more so if so random stranger thinks that I "look ok" and takes a stand against why I need a service animal or other assistance..... just cause you 'appear' ok does not mean that you are.
 
I don't mean to come across as insensitive, and I understand that people with disabilities don't want to be asked over and over again what their disability is (if it is one that doesn't physically present itself all the time) but are people with the disability really getting that offended that someone may ask them to provide proof of training or registration for the service animal?
Is that not an easy work around?
In Australia, if you want to park in a disabled parking spot, you must display a permit that allows you to use it, and you must re-qualify after certain amounts of time (I don't know that much about it, but I know that you have to reapply at some point) so essentially, why not have a permit for the service animal. one that's certified by a doctor or medical professional. then you get around asking what their disability is, and you can still control the use of service animals in a fair and dignified way.
 
I will have to say I have seen some "questionable cases" in my visits to WDW in the past - and other places around home too, but not a lot. However - even though I personally thought they looked "questionable", I also quickly chastised myself and thought "Who am I to judge" - especially because I've been stared/sneered at when in an ECV.

That being said - I have the same feelings for ANY and ALL people that truly ARE the ones that abuse a system that is meant to help and protect those that really NEED such assistive devices/animals/cards/whatever - "You are a bottom feeding piece of SCUM, and better have some GOOD answers ready for your Higher Power about your abysmal behavior when that day comes!" End of story.
 
I don't mean to come across as insensitive, and I understand that people with disabilities don't want to be asked over and over again what their disability is (if it is one that doesn't physically present itself all the time) but are people with the disability really getting that offended that someone may ask them to provide proof of training or registration for the service animal?
Is that not an easy work around?
In Australia, if you want to park in a disabled parking spot, you must display a permit that allows you to use it, and you must re-qualify after certain amounts of time (I don't know that much about it, but I know that you have to reapply at some point) so essentially, why not have a permit for the service animal. one that's certified by a doctor or medical professional. then you get around asking what their disability is, and you can still control the use of service animals in a fair and dignified way.

It's the same in the US - you need a permit (either on your license plate or something you hang from the rear view mirror) - I guess the vest is supposed to be the same thing, but I agree, maybe having the dog have to have an official tag or something that was visible and hard to fake would help vs just the vest?:confused3

Also thinking about a worst case scenario for Disney - what if one of these fake service dogs bit another guest? I am sure that guest wouldn't care that Disney couldn't question the dog being there
 
I don't understand why you don't need documentation ready and available if someone questions the legality and legitimate circumstances of the dog?
Because it's against the ADA - which was basically crafted and passed (with all good intentions) to preserve dignity and discretion, while protecting one's actual much-needed rights. Good thing manipulated by bad people for horrible cause - same old story - if there's a way to exploit/twist something, the bad forces of nature in this life will find it and use it. Sad, ain't it?
 
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I don't understand why you don't need documentation ready and available if someone questions the legality and legitimate circumstances of the dog?

Because it's against the ADA
But why? A disabled person needs a special license plate or placard to park in a handicapped parking space. How is that any different than a service dog needing a special license or registration?

I don't think the ADA should provide a way for people to bring untrained and potentially dangerous animals into public places or private businesses (like Disney).
 
But why? A disabled person needs a special license plate or placard to park in a handicapped parking space. How is that any different than a service dog needing a special license or registration?

I don't think the ADA should provide a way for people to bring untrained and potentially dangerous animals into public places or private businesses (like Disney).

The simple answer is that the Justice Department regulations (28 C.F.R. 36.302(c)(6)) specifically limit when a public accommodation may ask about a service animal:

A public accommodation shall not ask about the nature or extent of a person’s disability, but may make two inquiries to determine whether an animal qualifies as a service animal. A public accommodation may ask if the animal is required because of a disability and what work or task the animal has been trained to perform. A public accommodation shall not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal. Generally, a public accommodation may not make these inquiries about a service animal when it is readily apparent that an animal is trained to do work or perform tasks for an individual with a disability (e.g., the dog is observed guiding an individual who is blind or has low vision, pulling a person’s wheelchair, or providing assistance with stability or balance to an individual with an observable mobility disability).
The regulations also permit exclusion of a service animal if it is out of control or not housebroken, but the public accommodation must then give the disabled person the "opportunity to obtain goods, services, and accommodations without having the service animal on the premises." The definition of service animal is also not as broad as many people think. Work is the key point:

Service animal means any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability. Other species of animals, whether wild or domestic, trained or untrained, are not service animals for the purposes of this definition. The work or tasks performed by a service animal must be directly related to the individual’s disability. Examples of work or tasks include, but are not limited to, assisting individuals who are blind or have low vision with navigation and other tasks, alerting individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing to the presence of people or sounds, providing non-violent protection or rescue work, pulling a wheelchair, assisting an individual during a seizure, alerting individuals to the presence of allergens, retrieving items such as medicine or the telephone, providing physical support and assistance with balance and stability to individuals with mobility disabilities, and helping persons with psychiatric and neurological disabilities by preventing or interrupting impulsive or destructive behaviors. The crime deterrent effects of an animal’s presence and the provision of emotional support, well-being, comfort, or companionship do not constitute work or tasks for the purposes of this definition.​

This is limited to the ADA. There are other federal statutes which might broaden the definition of a "service animal" but these acts do not apply to WDW or DL. I can't say what Florida or California law might require. I suspect Florida's disability law is the same as the ADA. According to this website (which is a California state government site), California also has a law prohibiting misrepresentations of service animals and California law does not seem to require more than the ADA. https://www.dor.ca.gov/DisabilityAccessInfo/DAS-Docs/SERVICE-ANIMAL-LAWS.pdf
 
The simple answer is that the Justice Department regulations (28 C.F.R. 36.302(c)(6)) specifically limit when a public accommodation may ask about a service animal:
Thanks. I realize that's how the law is written. I was more questioning why. If someone wants to park in a handicapped space, there's a process they need to complete that includes having a doctor fill out a form certifying their disability. I'm a physician and have to handle that for my patients pretty regularly.

There is no such process for getting a service animal. Anybody who wants to can buy a vest on ebay for $20 or less, slap it on their pooch, and pretend the dog is a service animal. And nobody can stop them or question them or require any sort of proof that the dog is actually trained. That just seems like a tremendous loophole in the law. How long before some untrained fake service animal attacks some kid and makes this front page news?

This is the garbage that makes it that much harder for folks with legitimate issues and properly trained animals.
 
>>> This is the garbage that makes it that much harder for folks with legitimate issues and properly trained animals. <<<

TOTALLY Steve, totally. And totally just as depraved and sad. :(
 
Thanks. I realize that's how the law is written. I was more questioning why. If someone wants to park in a handicapped space, there's a process they need to complete that includes having a doctor fill out a form certifying their disability. I'm a physician and have to handle that for my patients pretty regularly.

There is no such process for getting a service animal. Anybody who wants to can buy a vest on ebay for $20 or less, slap it on their pooch, and pretend the dog is a service animal. And nobody can stop them or question them or require any sort of proof that the dog is actually trained. That just seems like a tremendous loophole in the law. How long before some untrained fake service animal attacks some kid and makes this front page news?

This is the garbage that makes it that much harder for folks with legitimate issues and properly trained animals.
Loophole?
Seems like a hole big enough to sink the living seas pavilion as far as I'm concerned.
It's ridiculous that there isn't some sort of regulatory body that has to oversee this.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule about asking about someone's disability (doctors need to ask for example) so I don't see why they can't impose the same process as getting a handicapped parking permit.
 
Obviously there are exceptions to the rule about asking about someone's disability (doctors need to ask for example) so I don't see why they can't impose the same process as getting a handicapped parking permit.
Exactly. The dog should need some sort of license. In order to get that license, the owner should need to show proof of training.

I think the problem is that there isn't any agency that oversees these things. There's no official national training organization to certify the dog as qualified as far as I know.
 
Exactly. The dog should need some sort of license. In order to get that license, the owner should need to show proof of training.

I think the problem is that there isn't any agency that oversees these things. There's no official national training organization to certify the dog as qualified as far as I know.
Well I thing it's high time there was one created!
 
Again, I mean no disrespect, but we are living in a world that's so gosh darn concerned about political correctness that people are allowed to take any old dog into any establishment with only 2 questions asked which are both easily answered with a simple lie, and no one can do anything about it.

We need to stop being so flipping precious (as a society)
People are so quick to be offended or to sue someone because they hurt their feelings.
Good lord. This is why I don't want to have children, I don't want my kids growing up in a world like that.
 
I agree with the good intention prvovisin but time and time again has proven humans can't have nice things as people always take advantage of everything.
 
We live in a decent sized condominium community, of which my wife happens to be the President. There is a similar issue here. No dogs are allowed, but a resident advised that they required a dog because of a medical condition -they presented a letter from their physician and that was all they needed. I don't believe this is a trained "service" animal, I believe the owners condition doesn't require that ...just that they need a dog.

So technically, every person in this community could have a dog assuming their doctor writes a letter for say a condition like anxiety. The attorneys for the association are looking into it, but I'm thinking there is nothing the association can do. So what happens to owners with severe allergies -are they forced to leave? It's an interesting issue from any angle.

If a guest suffers from anxiety and has a doctors letter indicating a dog is required -would Disney have to allow them and the dog in the park? Just curious.....
 

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