Has Disney’s Strategies To It’s Loyal Customers Finally Caught Up With It?

[RivShore]

Is it though? If you remain stagnant the other guy will almost always pass you.

Disney has more than double the attendance of Universal so that would be quite the feat. Not to mention it is so much larger in all aspects, from parks to shopping, restaurants, hotels, golf courses, etc. Very different resorts even once Epic is open.

 

[meremac]

These theme park designers did it to themselves - WDW in the '70s had lots of shade trees, benches and the coldest AC anywhere...many areas where people could cool off - and they actually removed the trees/benches - and got cheap with the AC, turning it higher - the opposite of what any intelligent designer would do in Florida summer heat - particularly with projected temp increases/climate change issues.

Personal opinion: it won't be long before most people will no longer be physically able to visit any of these Florida theme parks in summer over the next decade - the heat is beyond brutal.

I've been going since the 70s - and it's a lot different today.

I honestly don't have a problem with the A/C levels. I still think it's quite nice and comfortable in most indoor areas. I just think it's more of a geographical thing for my clientele. We're in Michigan so summers are already hot, and my midwest clients typically like to spend summer vacations up north, by the lake, or at local theme parks that are only open seasonally, They'd much rather go to Florida in the fall/winter when it's cold here. I do have some pockets of clientele in southern states, too, though, and even they prefer to avoid Florida in the summer. Shade or no shade, good A/C or not...if people have the choice between going to Florida in the summer or in the fall/winter, most people will pick fall/winter easily.

 

[RivShore]

Being #1 is something, but it isn't everything. The biggest thing I noticed from that data is that Disney isn't #1-#4 in Orlando anymore. The Universal parks have passed some of the Disney parks. No way that is a good thing for Disney. Might get worse with Epic Universe. What's left to do in Epcot isn't going to move the needle. People are tired of Star Wars. And Animal Kingdom is way off it's 2019 numbers, and I don't see anything there that going to drastically change that.

But does it really matter if Disney is hitting its Revenue and Profit targets for the parks? They have said since pre-covid days they want less people in the parks to improve the experience, falling behind a little in guest counts could be part of that strategy.

 

[Disney Bobby]

But does it really matter if Disney is hitting its Revenue and Profit targets for the parks? They have said since pre-covid days they want less people in the parks to improve the experience, falling behind a little in quest counts could be part of that strategy.

My response was in the discussion about tourist dollars being down for Orange County. Disney may be able to temporarily increase prices to offset lower attendance in Florida, but if fewer people show up, that will impact other businesses around them and the tax revenue generated from their sales.

 

[NotUrsula]

These theme park designers did it to themselves - WDW in the '70s had lots of shade trees, benches and the coldest AC anywhere...many areas where people could cool off - and they actually removed the trees/benches - and got cheap with the AC, turning it higher - the opposite of what any intelligent designer would do in Florida summer heat - particularly with projected temp increases/climate change issues.

Personal opinion: it won't be long before most people will no longer be physically able to visit any of these Florida theme parks in summer over the next decade - the heat is beyond brutal.

I've been going since the 70s - and it's a lot different today.

There is a lot that could still be done to make the heat less of an issue, if they cared to invest. One very simple one for a start: I noticed on our trip a couple of weeks ago that almost none of the ride queue fans were running with the misters on. That might work in California, but in Florida the misters help compensate for the humidity; by putting water on the skin surface they aid greatly in cooling the body. (In high humidity sweating does not cool the body very much at all.)

WDW sells rain ponchos fairly cheaply, but price gouge on heat-protective items such as cooling towels, sunscreen, and sunhats. The prepared visitors buy cooling towels elsewhere and bring them along, but Disney charges 4X as much for them as one pays off-property. (I'm helping my DD plan a fundraiser to buy them to donate to farm workers, and we've been looking into buying them direct from the manufacturer. WITH a carabiner pouch on each one, an order of 1000 of them averages $.55 per towel, and the price goes down as the quantity goes up. Disney could sell them for $2 each and still make a solid profit.) Same goes for personal fan devices; they are all made in China and cost very little at wholesale, so if Disney wants to increase summer attendance, they should sell these devices at only a fraction over cost.

Lately (and I suspect the point is to sell more LL), I've witnessed queues being held outdoors, so that once you get inside the building the queue is nearly empty. That simply has to stop, because it's just flat dangerous, and will certainly deter repeat summer visits. ALL outdoor queue areas should be fully shaded during the day, with lots of artificial air circulation: no one should be standing in the sun while in a ride queue in summer. If they can do it for Haunted Mansion, they can do it for the rest of the rides.

The MK trees were cut back to increase fireworks viewing sightlines, but those sightlines are only needed at night, when shade is NOT needed. The obvious solution is to use more (LARGE) umbrellas and mechanized canopies in areas of the park that are within the planned sightlines. When the sun goes down you roll them back. (Added bonus if they use solar canopies.)

And speaking of the sun going down, the most obvious solution of all is to shift park hours, especially on weekends, to set the majority of open hours after 4pm. (Personally, I think that in summer it would be a great idea to rotate having one park open all night long one night each week, closing at perhaps 9 am, and only open regular hours the following evening.) Not only would this spare visitors the worst of the midday heat, but it would draw a lot more locals (and almost locals, such as Tampa and Gainesville folks), who work during the day and would rather visit the parks at night. It would also contrast strongly with USIOA, which always closes their parks comparatively early in order to drive visitors to CityWalk.

PS: Right now, it's very important that the company get a lot of revenue from the parks, because it's the only division that is presently really profitable. The Parks are propping up the rest of the Disney Company at the moment.

PPS: For what it's worth, I suspect that they could get enough volunteers to manage the overnight one park per week, especially if they threw in a bit of extra cash for taking that shift; after all, it gets the CMs out of the heat, too. There are also probably plenty of people who would be happy to take a p/t overnight gig once a week if their spouse worked days and was home with the kids overnight.

 

[Summer2018]

There is a lot that could still be done to make the heat less of an issue, if they cared to invest. One very simple one for a start: I noticed on our trip a couple of weeks ago that almost none of the ride queue fans were running with the misters on. That might work in California, but in Florida the misters help compensate for the humidity; by putting water on the skin surface they aid greatly in cooling the body. (In high humidity sweating does not cool the body very much at all.)

WDW sells rain ponchos fairly cheaply, but price gouge on heat-protective items such as cooling towels, sunscreen, and sunhats. The prepared buy cooling towels elsewhere and bring them along, but Disney charges 4X as much for them as one pays off-property. (I'm helping my DD plan a fundraiser to buy them to donate to farm workers, and we've been looking into buying them direct from the manufacturer. WITH a carabiner pouch o each one, an order of 1000 of them averages $.55 per towel, and the price goes down as the quantity goes up. Disney could sell them for $2 each and still make a solid profit.) Same goes for personal fan devices; they are all made in China and cost very little at wholesale, so if Disney wants to increase summer attendance, they should sell these devices at only a fraction over cost.

Lately (and I suspect the point is to sell more LL), I've witnessed queues being held outdoors, so that once you get inside the building the queue is nearly empty. That simply has to stop, because it's just flat dangerous, and will certainly deter repeat summer visits. ALL outdoor queue areas should be fully shaded during the day, with lots of artificial air circulation: no one should be standing in the sun while in a ride queue in summer. If they can do it for Haunted Mansion, they can do it for the rest of the rides.

The MK trees were cut back to increase fireworks viewing sightlines, but those sightlines are only needed at night, when shade is NOT needed. The obvious solution is to use more (LARGE) umbrellas and mechanized canopies in areas of the park that are within the planned sightlines. When the sun goes down you roll them back. (Added bonus if they use solar canopies.)

And speaking of the sun going down, the most obvious solution of all is to shift park hours, especially on weekends, to set the majority of open hours after 4pm. (Personally, I think that in summer it would be a great idea to rotate having one park open all night long one night each week, closing at perhaps 9 am, and only open regular hours the following evening.) Not only would this spare visitors the worst of the midday heat, but it would draw a lot more locals (and almost locals, such as Tampa and Gainesville folks), who work during the day and would rather visit the parks at night. It would also contrast strongly with USIOA, which always closes their parks comparatively early in order to drive visitors to CityWalk.

PS: Right now, it's very important that the company get a lot of revenue from the parks, because it's the only division that is presently really profitable. The Parks are propping up the rest of the Disney Company at the moment.

Genius.

 

[Disney Bobby]

But does it really matter if Disney is hitting its Revenue and Profit targets for the parks? They have said since pre-covid days they want less people in the parks to improve the experience, falling behind a little in quest counts could be part of that strategy.

And I don't believe they want less people in the parks. I've heard that, but I'm not sure if it was something official or not, but I don't believe it either way.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

(Personally, I think that in summer it would be a great idea to rotate having one park open all night long one night each week, closing at perhaps 9 am, and only open regular hours the following evening.)

That would be great for some guests but terrible for most cast members.

 

[TikiTikiFan]

Honestly, across the board (WDW and Disneyland) spring break, Halloween, Christmas season are the busy times. Summer is starting to feel much more mild. We were just at Disneyland a few weeks ago and the wait times were so low yet we were at Disneyland in October and it was absolutely packed... packed as in I will never go there in October again! Similar with WDW, when we've done summer I felt it was reasonable vs when we were there for Christmas.

 

[RivShore]

And I don't believe they want less people in the parks. I've heard that, but I'm not sure if it was something official or not, but I don't believe it either way.

They actually said that during either an earnings call or an investor conference so it was official. They said crowds were impacting guest satisfaction and they were going to work to bring them down - it is what lead to variable ticket cost, rying to move crowd levels to historicly slower days. Ideally they would like annual attendance to remain the same or grow with just a crowd shift but i think they really knew they had to reduce the busy day crowds.

 

[RivShore]

PS: Right now, it's very important that the company get a lot of revenue from the parks, because it's the only division that is presently really profitable. The Parks are propping up the rest of the Disney Company at the moment.

Believe it or not, the linear networks (cable fees) still bring a boatload of dollars to the bottom line. Movies are going to struggle to profit this year and streaming is just a big black hole of shareholder money

 

[RivShore]

That would be great for some guests but terrible for most cast members.

and wreak havoc with maintenance and cleaning schedules.

 

[TraderStitch]

and wreak havoc with maintenance and cleaning schedules.

If the park would say close at 7am or 9am, they would have until 4pm to clean and work on things. Plenty of people work overnights... law enforcement, nurses, IT, fast food workers in busy areas... no real feasible reason to not keep one park a day/week open all night and have the other parks open late during summer hours couldn't work.

If anything, they need more cover to keep guests out of the sun.

 

[Disney Bobby]

They actually said that during either an earnings call or an investor conference so it was official. They said crowds were impacting guest satisfaction and they were going to work to bring them down - it is what lead to variable ticket cost, rying to move crowd levels to historicly slower days. Ideally they would like annual attendance to remain the same or grow with just a crowd shift but i think they really knew they had to reduce the busy day crowds.

Distributing people is a little different than the originally stated just fewer people. I've seen that before, and I don't believe that either. Just marketing speak. I think they were just trying to charge more when they could because holidays and other busy days are when people can and want to visit. Considering the total price of a trip, I just can't see a few bucks on ticket prices driving customers to drastically alter when they want to visit. And given how many changes I've seen recently that are clearly to generate revenue vs changes to improve customer experience, I suspect the former was the motivation for that one too.

 

[RamblinWreck]

If the park would say close at 7am or 9am, they would have until 4pm to clean and work on things. Plenty of people work overnights... law enforcement, nurses, IT, fast food workers in busy areas... no real feasible reason to not keep one park a day/week open all night and have the other parks open late during summer hours couldn't work.

If anything, they need more cover to keep guests out of the sun.

Here's the problem

Almost nobody is going to go to the park between 2 AM and 6 AM

It would just be wasteful

 

[ChipnDale79]

And I don't believe they want less people in the parks. I've heard that, but I'm not sure if it was something official or not, but I don't believe it either way.

never have believed this one...disney wants the most people in their parks for the highest price possible.

 

[irlandaise]

Here's the problem

Almost nobody is going to go to the park between 2 AM and 6 AM

It would just be wasteful

True, but how about midnight or 1:00 a.m.? I just checked the schedule and even now, at the peak of summer vacation season, the MK closes at 10:00 p.m. most nights, with Epcot and DHS at 9:00 and AK at 7:00. Disneyland is open every night until midnight! And DCA until 10:00.

If I were planning a trip to Florida at this time of the year (in violation of my policy of not going east of the Rockies between May and September), I'd sure like the idea of hitting some parks in the morning, staying in a pool or air conditioned hotels and restaurants until after sunset, and then coming back for a few more hours at the parks. Maybe it isn't feasible due to shift-length requirements, but somehow the Disney folks in California manage to do it, and I'm going to bet that working-hour regulations are stronger there.

Disney could even offer an evening discounted ticket like they used to do at Epcot*, although that would only appeal to people who don't want to go to the parks during the day.

* Was that only during the Food & Wine Festival?

 

[Dcgc28]

And I don't believe they want less people in the parks. I've heard that, but I'm not sure if it was something official or not, but I don't believe it either way.

Why? Disney doesn't do 60K in MK anymore, you don't think they could on Christmas Eve or Christmas night? Are you basing this entire opinion on the slow time we're going through right now, because it was busting at the seams all last year and March this year.

 

[DodgerGirl]

What I think Disney Parks should and REALLY should do is get rid of the park reservation system. Because I think this is what really is hurting both Walt Disney World and Disneyland and why so many people are either not going or cancelling their trips because I think this mainly done to limit visitors when the pandemic happened and it caused Disneyland and Walt Disney World to lose money and people disliked this new system which kept them from going. I remember you could get into the parks without a reservation very simple but this is a waste of time. I mean a family is going to Disneyland or Walt Disney World to have fun not going to shop at Sam's Club with a membership. And I cannot figure out why Disneyland is making guests buy Magic Keys because this is another thing that has hurt Disney itself and I cannot see paying an expensive price for a Magic Key and all these things have made planning a Disneyland or Walt Disney World trip impossible now these days. But what Disney should do to improve itself is for the parks to do away with this reservation system and return the parks to it's soaring glory and in the movies and TV department stop focusing on live-action versions of films and release animated films that are actually good and perform well in theaters. Because ever since Strange World failed at the box-office in November 2022 Disney has started to create films that aren't worthy of watching and ends up putting the good films on Disney+

 

[Obi-J Kenobi]

What I think Disney Parks should and REALLY should do is get rid of the park reservation system. Because I think this is what really is hurting both Walt Disney World and Disneyland and why so many people are either not going or cancelling their trips because I think this mainly done to limit visitors when the pandemic happened and it caused Disneyland and Walt Disney World to lose money and people disliked this new system which kept them from going. I remember you could get into the parks without a reservation very simple but this is a waste of time. I mean a family is going to Disneyland or Walt Disney World to have fun not going to shop at Sam's Club with a membership. And I cannot figure out why Disneyland is making guests buy Magic Keys because this is another thing that has hurt Disney itself and I cannot see paying an expensive price for a Magic Key and all these things have made planning a Disneyland or Walt Disney World trip impossible now these days. But what Disney should do to improve itself is for the parks to do away with this reservation system and return the parks to it's soaring glory and in the movies and TV department stop focusing on live-action versions of films and release animated films that are actually good and perform well in theaters. Because ever since Strange World failed at the box-office in November 2022 Disney has started to create films that aren't worthy of watching and ends up putting the good films on Disney+

I agree that the reservation should go away. It just makes guests take additional steps to have a good time. Making it more effort for the guest isn't a particular winning business strategy, IMO.

But, I suppose I don't run Disney parks as well as Bob Iger and Josh D'Amaro.