Hawaii Tourism Not Starting Up Until Late Summer

The standard Viaral Covid PCR tests are pretty accurate but the rapid test run between 15-20% false negative and unfortunately those are the tests that everyone will be using for screening.
No, actually the standard swab & wait days for results tests, can have about a very significant false negative rate, particularly if administered early on.

There are many articles on the topic, but I can't link them, possibly because I'm new here. Look up "covid swab false negative" & check Science Daily, NY Mag, etc.
 
There's going to be a risk regardless of the PCR swab (most have clinical sensitivity of ~90%). As others have mentioned, getting this 1-3 days prior still doesn't mean walking through the grocery store/uber/airport/airplane/rental that one won't catch Covid between the swab and landing in Hawaii. It certainly reduces the risk from self-reported 'i'm okay'+temperature check and between the 14 day quarantine mandate.
 
No, actually the standard swab & wait days for results tests, can have about a very significant false negative rate, particularly if administered early on.

There are many articles on the topic, but I can't link them, possibly because I'm new here. Look up "covid swab false negative" & check Science Daily, NY Mag, etc.
I will stand by the statement the normal, non Point of Care Covid-19 PCR, is pretty accurate. Much more so than anything else. No test is 100% in specificity and sensitivity.
 
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There's going to be a risk regardless of the PCR swab (most have clinical sensitivity of ~90%). As others have mentioned, getting this 1-3 days prior still doesn't mean walking through the grocery store/uber/airport/airplane/rental that one won't catch Covid between the swab and landing in Hawaii. It certainly reduces the risk from self-reported 'i'm okay'+temperature check and between the 14 day quarantine mandate.
You have it dead on. ANY test performed is only valid as to the date and time of of collection. Any perceived status of Covid 19 infection status at any time post 1 minute of collection are pure conjecture unless the tested subject is placed into strict quarantine immediately after collection. This makes the 72 hr rule a pure crap shoot as to perceived protection. You can get infected walking out the door from being tested that invalidates the whole process. We are seeing a < 2% positivity rate that makes all of this statistically nutso. You subject 100 people for Reliable testing and 2% may be positive. You test 100 people to rapid testing and up to 20% may test negative but really be positive. The other problem is getting a reliable PCR result back to the patient in 72 hrs is cutting it a bit fine if you are not talking about an emergent scenario (Vacation Travel does not count). I am still not sure how this all falls under HIPAA. What’s next you have to declare your HIV, Hepatitis, TB etc status before travel?
 
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There's going to be a risk regardless of the PCR swab (most have clinical sensitivity of ~90%). As others have mentioned, getting this 1-3 days prior still doesn't mean walking through the grocery store/uber/airport/airplane/rental that one won't catch Covid between the swab and landing in Hawaii. It certainly reduces the risk from self-reported 'i'm okay'+temperature check and between the 14 day quarantine mandate.

I agree, I don't buy that it will substantially dent the COVID rate once Hawaii does open up. Temperature checks can be defeated with Tylenol, COVID testing is imperfect at best, no one in their right mind will check the box "hmmm I don't feel so well today" anywhere, ever.
 
It certainly does look like there is no practical way that Hawaii can open up tourism and guarantee that they can get a 100% covid free plane load of passengers for each and every flight. The argument that continues to be made is that it opening things up would overwhelm their HeathCare systems but they don’t appear to be making any moves to beef that up. They have 100’s of millions of dollars that they have received from the gov’t that they are holding onto to pay for more extended unemployment. I’ve not read of any plans for expanding their healthcare to cope. We had to look at tents, convention centers etc for means of handling the surge that never (thankfully) came.
 
I don't believe they want to build up.large infrastructure... temporary or just expansion for long term. I'm hopeful that they are building up supplies and vents. They have increased testing and tracing it seems quite well.

The hard part remains when on opens up....and unknowns and risks ramp up exponentially as well. Pretesting helps to clamp down the unknown but still a lengthy process until rapid, cheap, accurate point of care testing is readily available.
 


I don't believe they want to build up.large infrastructure... temporary or just expansion for long term. I'm hopeful that they are building up supplies and vents.
Why would that be, do you think? If there is a recognized low capacity for hospital care, why wouldn’t they want to improve that? Especially when so many of their statements have been that their overall strict response has been mostly to protect their elderly? What am I missing? Because I definitely don’t understand many parts of their response. (And I’m with you, hopefully they’ve been stocking up.)
 
A long term investment in strengthening their Healthcare infrastructure has only got to help and prepare them for the next bug to come a calling. They have hundreds of millions of dollars and a quarter of a million unemployed workers. Seems like you could put the two together and build some infrastructure.
 
Hospital planning takes years. Not only that but industry all shut down too. Not much can be done in three months unless conversions of existing for surge...which as you tell from NYC not really hugely needed .

A near term logical play would be to have mercy hospital ship there. Good negotiation point between fed and state if fed really wants to reopen .
 
the bottom line is all the testing in the world won't change the fact that people are going to get covid, some people will die from it, most won't, and no one lives forever. The thing that will allow them to open up is when they realize that you can't protect everyone, and people at risk need to do their best to protect themselves. Any screening, testing etc etc etc will never be effective.
 
no one lives forever.
Tell that to the 117,000 lives cut short by Covid that most likely died alone away from family. Hawaii had the opportunity to make it safe for their population and have done so. To date, that's been good enough for them and reopening stages is progressing fast enough for their populace.

To each state's efforts and desires. I'm frustrated that it's impacted us, but we completely understand their position and taking it.

Proof is pretty good -- where most of these are from the initial surge.

Hawaii
Confirmed
706
Recovered
627
Deaths
17


When Hawaii is ready to welcome us back, we will be too. --- hopefully Aug 1!
 
Tell that to the 117,000 lives cut short by Covid that most likely died alone away from family. Hawaii had the opportunity to make it safe for their population and have done so. To date, that's been good enough for them and reopening stages is progressing fast enough for their populace.

To each state's efforts and desires. I'm frustrated that it's impacted us, but we completely understand their position and taking it.

Proof is pretty good -- where most of these are from the initial surge.

Hawaii
Confirmed
706
Recovered
627
Deaths
17


When Hawaii is ready to welcome us back, we will be too. --- hopefully Aug 1!


How many were cut short is the question, most deaths are the extremely old, who would be dying soon regardless of cause. There were 2.8 million deaths in the USA in 2017, the number will not be 117,000 higher because of covid because many who died of covid would die this year regardless of old age, influenza, stroke, heart attack, dementia, etc. Hawaii has a population of 1.4 million people...17 have died from covid (or with covid since if you die with covid then they count you even if you died from another cause) in a 3 month time period, of those, most would have died this year anyway. And this is worth them killing the economy and therefore the livelihoods of the other 1.4million? Compare 17 in 3 months to this chart https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/states/hawaii/hawaii.htm
it makes no sense.
 
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Tell that to the 117,000 lives cut short by Covid that most likely died alone away from family. Hawaii had the opportunity to make it safe for their population and have done so. To date, that's been good enough for them and reopening stages is progressing fast enough for their populace.

To each state's efforts and desires. I'm frustrated that it's impacted us, but we completely understand their position and taking it.

Proof is pretty good -- where most of these are from the initial surge.

Hawaii
Confirmed
706
Recovered
627
Deaths
17


When Hawaii is ready to welcome us back, we will be too. --- hopefully Aug 1!

Hawaii won't be welcoming back tourist because they are ready, they are going to welcome them back because they have no choice. No matter what protocols they implement, unless there is a vaccine you will have spikes and some will probably die. All anyone can do is to limit their risks. If someone is at risk or live with someone at risk then at some point it's that individual's responsibility to protect themselves and their family. Everyone needs to assess their own risk because this virus will be with us and if we cannot learn to live with it then we aren't really going to be living our lives. For those of you that are more noble then me, who want to save every life out there, please do not visit Hawaii or go outside your house because you never know if you may be an asymptomatic carrier. I will concede you are a more altruistic and a better human being then me, but I'm not going to lose sleep over that fact. I will continue to social distance, wear my mask and face guard, wear gloves, carry my hand sanitizer, and keep away from any of my at risk family members. That's about the extent of what I'm willing to do for society going forward such that I don't feel morally conflicted of whether or not I'm doing the right thing by continuing to live my life.
 
I will continue to social distance, wear my mask and face guard, wear gloves, carry my hand sanitizer, and keep away from any of my at risk family members. That's about the extent of what I'm willing to do for society going forward such that I don't feel morally conflicted of whether or not I'm doing the right thing by continuing to live my life.
As are we. We're not shying away from going day 1. We're ready for July 17th reopening of DLR too and waiting for the reservations to drop, and have DVC reservations for VGC right before Labor day with our APs.

Just saying that Hawaii is doing what they believe is right for their people, and as visitors, we just have to wait until they welcome us back.
 
As are we. We're not shying away from going day 1. We're ready for July 17th reopening of DLR too and waiting for the reservations to drop, and have DVC reservations for VGC right before Labor day with our APs.

Just saying that Hawaii is doing what they believe is right for their people, and as visitors, we just have to wait until they welcome us back.

I think this is where I have a hard time agreeing with your points. Who is "Hawaii" that is making the decisions to protect people? Currently right now the life of all the people on the island is in the hands of only a few, and everyone that has to live with their decisions have no say in the decision making process. No one questions that we all want to open up safely, but is those in power really doing what is best for the people? At some point when the economy continues to sink when do we call their actions or in this case inaction just incompetence?
 
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I think this is where I have a hard time agreeing with your points. Who is "Hawaii" that is making the decisions to protect people? Currently right now the life of all the people on the island is in the hands of only a few, and everyone that has to live with their decisions have no say in the decision making process. No one questions that we all want to open up safely, but is those in power really doing what is best for the people? At some point when the economy continues to sink when do we call their actions or in this case inaction just incompetence?
Like many instances these days - a few folk are making decisions for large populations both at the Federal and State levels. So -- our President with his cabinet and Governors are the primary actors.

How do 'we' enact change? Polls, protests, votes are chief among them.

In Hawaii : Recent poll showed continued strong support for the quarantine though the Gov himself isn't really popular. https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/05/civil-beat-hnn-poll-stop-virus-even-if-economy-crumbles/
 
Sadly, just cancelled our trip for early fall. It's impossible to plan for anything within 3-6 months for Hawaii right now - no clue when they'll allow visitors in from the US mainland without some crazy quarantine requirements. No clue what will be the other restrictions once they do 'reopen'. We'll take our fall vacation money and spend it closer to home instead. Maybe we'll get a chance to go to Hawaii again in the future. Maybe not. I don't really blame the governor for what it appears he's trying to do - we're in a significant health crisis. But for him to accomplish what he hopes to accomplish, and keep the virus out of Hawaii - they'll be bankrupt until he can reopen to tourism sometime in 2021. It's going to take time for areas of the country to recover. Hawaii is going to take much longer. But I hope they do recover.
 
to accomplish what he hopes to accomplish, and keep the virus out of Hawaii
Unfortunately the only way to keep it out forever is to institute a permanent incoming quarantine, like they do for animals (120 days). They’ve totally eradicated rabies. But I think a permanent 14-day quarantine will also nearly totally eradicate tourism as well. Sorry for everybody affected—the jobs, the cancelled trips, the stress. I’m just selfishly hoping it’s back to “normal” by 2022 for our multi-celebration trip.
 

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