That quote from the article is about Public Service Loan Forgiveness. Teacher Loan Forgiveness (TLF) is a seperate thing. With TLF, the most that can be forgiven is $17,500.
Interesting Rolling Stone article on college debt
- Thread starter Pea-n-Me
- Start date
That quote from the article is about Public Service Loan Forgiveness. Teacher Loan Forgiveness (TLF) is a seperate thing. With TLF, the most that can be forgiven is $17,500.
Pea-n-Me
DIS Veteran
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- Jul 18, 2004
Ah, ok. Thanks for pointing that out. Still, crazy that there are so many beauracratic problems with the program!
Pea-n-Me
DIS Veteran
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- Jul 18, 2004
Do many teachers here agree that if a student wants to go into teaching, that they pretty much stick with a low cost college program? Asking because a friend's child now is looking at schools and planning to go the private route for teaching. (Obviously, a lot of factors involved for each individual student, but asking your thoughts on it generally.)
runwad
Dis Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2006
Most kids want what they want. Most parents want to give their kids what they want. Most people are absolutely clueless on finances! Even if you try to explain it, they just don't get it, it's too complicated for them. I feel sorry for those people.
Me, I get it, I work in finance. I told my kids flat out I wasn't taking any loans for them and I wouldn't let them take more than they needed. We made a plan. I cultivated the plan when the kids were in middle school..so a lot of advanced planning. They took a year of post secondary (now called College Credit Plus) to get college credits while in high school, I paid a year, they had to pay a year, and they could get loans for a year. So far both kids are on track to graduate college with $7500 in Federal Subsidized loans. Most people aren't disciplined enough to actually make a plan.
Of course I will say we have at least 4 Universities within driving distance although one of my kiddos got a scholarship for room and board so she's at school, the other is home.
Me, I get it, I work in finance. I told my kids flat out I wasn't taking any loans for them and I wouldn't let them take more than they needed. We made a plan. I cultivated the plan when the kids were in middle school..so a lot of advanced planning. They took a year of post secondary (now called College Credit Plus) to get college credits while in high school, I paid a year, they had to pay a year, and they could get loans for a year. So far both kids are on track to graduate college with $7500 in Federal Subsidized loans. Most people aren't disciplined enough to actually make a plan.
Of course I will say we have at least 4 Universities within driving distance although one of my kiddos got a scholarship for room and board so she's at school, the other is home.
Pea-n-Me
DIS Veteran
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- Jul 18, 2004
This was also enlightening:
"Universities, especially public institutions, have successfully defended rising tuition in recent years by blaming the hikes on reduced support from states. But this explanation was blown to bits in large part due to a bizarre slip-up in the middle of a controversy over state support of the University of Wisconsin system a few years ago.
In that incident, UW raised tuition by 5.5 percent six years in a row after 2007. The school blamed stresses from the financial crisis and decreased state aid. But when pressed during a state committee hearing in 2013 about the university's finances, UW system president Kevin Reilly admitted they held $648 million in reserve, including $414 million in tuition payments. This was excess hidey-hole cash the school was sitting on, separate and distinct from, say, an endowment fund.
After the university was showered with criticism for hoarding cash at a time when it was gouging students with huge price increases every year, the school responded by saying, essentially, it only did what all the other kids were doing. UW released data showing that other major state-school systems across the country were similarly stashing huge amounts of cash. While Wisconsin's surplus was only 25 percent of its operating budget, for instance, Minnesota's was 29 percent, and Illinois maintained a whopping 34 percent reserve.
When Collinge, of Student Loan Justice, looked into it, he found that the phenomenon wasn't confined to state schools. Private schools, too, have been hoarding cash even as they plead poverty and jack up tuition fees. "They're all doing it," he says.
While universities sit on their stockpiles of cash and the loan industry generates record profits, the pain of living in debilitating debt for many lasts into retirement."
"Universities, especially public institutions, have successfully defended rising tuition in recent years by blaming the hikes on reduced support from states. But this explanation was blown to bits in large part due to a bizarre slip-up in the middle of a controversy over state support of the University of Wisconsin system a few years ago.
In that incident, UW raised tuition by 5.5 percent six years in a row after 2007. The school blamed stresses from the financial crisis and decreased state aid. But when pressed during a state committee hearing in 2013 about the university's finances, UW system president Kevin Reilly admitted they held $648 million in reserve, including $414 million in tuition payments. This was excess hidey-hole cash the school was sitting on, separate and distinct from, say, an endowment fund.
After the university was showered with criticism for hoarding cash at a time when it was gouging students with huge price increases every year, the school responded by saying, essentially, it only did what all the other kids were doing. UW released data showing that other major state-school systems across the country were similarly stashing huge amounts of cash. While Wisconsin's surplus was only 25 percent of its operating budget, for instance, Minnesota's was 29 percent, and Illinois maintained a whopping 34 percent reserve.
When Collinge, of Student Loan Justice, looked into it, he found that the phenomenon wasn't confined to state schools. Private schools, too, have been hoarding cash even as they plead poverty and jack up tuition fees. "They're all doing it," he says.
While universities sit on their stockpiles of cash and the loan industry generates record profits, the pain of living in debilitating debt for many lasts into retirement."
mi*vida*loca
Collect memories, not things
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2008
..
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monsterkitty
DIS Veteran
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- Sep 5, 2005
Yes! Stick with low cost over "name brand"!
I suggest researching education programs and going with the a program that places teachers right out of graduation. However, that may not even mean anything anymore because colleges/universities are begging students to major in education. The universities here that put out a lot of teachers say that students majoring in education has decreased 50-70% in the past few years.
If possible, suggest the student takes credits at a CC that will transfer to the College/University. If the degree allows, start at a CC and get all gen ed out of the way and then transfer to the college/university. I say if the degree allows because this would not work in all programs. As a music ed/performance major, I needed to be in the university from day 1 so that I could keep the performance scholarship.
Colleen27
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- Mar 31, 2007
I think it raises some very good points. I also think it misses some opportunities to point out the "whys" of some of those points, some of which could be more easily changed than federal financial aid policies.
For example, school quality ratings that use the percentage of students enrolling in 4 year universities create financial incentives for high schools' staff to push university over community college or trade schools, particularly in places where schools are relying on school-of-choice enrollees to balance budgets shot to hell by state-level fiscal crises, an increasingly anti-govt/anti-tax electorate skeptical of millage initiatives, and per-pupil funding models that devastate schools in areas that are losing population. But that means kids are going to counselors and administrators with a clear conflict of interest for advice in making a major life decision, and that's particularly devastating for kids from lower-income homes whose parents might not be able to offer better advice or who are willing to trust the experts.
That continues at the college level, when admissions and financial aid advisers focus heavily on first-years and getting kids enrolled with little concern for the long-term debt loads or even the viability of finishing if the student runs into federal borrowing limits in 2 or 3 years and doesn't have a co-signer for private loans. That was a major stressor for a few of my classmates who hit the borrowing limit during their junior years and couldn't qualify for private loans to finish. I've read a number of news stories and studies that put the "some college" group in the worst overall shape of all borrowers, despite the horror stories of unemployed or low-earning grads, but the incentives again discourage the professionals from giving prudent advice on that count.
And then there is the increased spending on quality-of-life measures by colleges and universities looking to improve their own ratings to compete for students. The uni I graduated from hiked tuition by 8% one year, which brought in almost exactly what the university spent on their fancy pro-quality athletic center in the same year. The justification? That students want athletics and the related social activities, so it is an investment in the school's future... the future of a commuter school where only about 20% of students live on campus to take advantage of that social scene. Affordability, on the other hand, is only starting to become something worth boasting about.
Plus, let's not forget the ridiculousness of the college internship. It takes what should be entry-level jobs, pushes students to work them without pay (and pay tuition for the privilege), and at the same time makes fitting in a paying job impossible, increasing the amount the student has to borrow to survive that semester or semesters. And it also sets up a system by which the "haves" can line up multiple and more demanding internships, even traveling or studying elsewere to intern with a desirable company, giving them an advantage in securing jobs after graduation over "have nots" who put the minimum required into their internships because that's the financially prudent choice.
For example, school quality ratings that use the percentage of students enrolling in 4 year universities create financial incentives for high schools' staff to push university over community college or trade schools, particularly in places where schools are relying on school-of-choice enrollees to balance budgets shot to hell by state-level fiscal crises, an increasingly anti-govt/anti-tax electorate skeptical of millage initiatives, and per-pupil funding models that devastate schools in areas that are losing population. But that means kids are going to counselors and administrators with a clear conflict of interest for advice in making a major life decision, and that's particularly devastating for kids from lower-income homes whose parents might not be able to offer better advice or who are willing to trust the experts.
That continues at the college level, when admissions and financial aid advisers focus heavily on first-years and getting kids enrolled with little concern for the long-term debt loads or even the viability of finishing if the student runs into federal borrowing limits in 2 or 3 years and doesn't have a co-signer for private loans. That was a major stressor for a few of my classmates who hit the borrowing limit during their junior years and couldn't qualify for private loans to finish. I've read a number of news stories and studies that put the "some college" group in the worst overall shape of all borrowers, despite the horror stories of unemployed or low-earning grads, but the incentives again discourage the professionals from giving prudent advice on that count.
And then there is the increased spending on quality-of-life measures by colleges and universities looking to improve their own ratings to compete for students. The uni I graduated from hiked tuition by 8% one year, which brought in almost exactly what the university spent on their fancy pro-quality athletic center in the same year. The justification? That students want athletics and the related social activities, so it is an investment in the school's future... the future of a commuter school where only about 20% of students live on campus to take advantage of that social scene. Affordability, on the other hand, is only starting to become something worth boasting about.
Plus, let's not forget the ridiculousness of the college internship. It takes what should be entry-level jobs, pushes students to work them without pay (and pay tuition for the privilege), and at the same time makes fitting in a paying job impossible, increasing the amount the student has to borrow to survive that semester or semesters. And it also sets up a system by which the "haves" can line up multiple and more demanding internships, even traveling or studying elsewere to intern with a desirable company, giving them an advantage in securing jobs after graduation over "have nots" who put the minimum required into their internships because that's the financially prudent choice.
Turn the Page
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- Jan 23, 2013
I very nearly got into an argument with my mother the other day about teachers. Retired teachers in my state, Michigan, who have put x number of years in teaching, make very good money. My mother does tax prep and does the taxes for a couple who are both retired teachers. They each bring in approximately $65,000/year so that is around $130,000 total plus their healthcare coverage, etc. The problem is, you have to work quite awhile to get there.
My parents have friends whose daughter recently graduated and is a first year teacher this year. Her parents were lamenting the fact that she is only being paid $35,000 a year and how little that was. My mother decides that is an appropriate venue to get on her soapbox about the obscene amounts of money teachers are paid and how she thinks that's really good the first year out of college and how my dad hasn't made that much in several years and she gets paid that much for only working 9 months a year and blah blah blah. I tried to explain to my mother that sure, she is being paid $35,000 a year but after taxes it is probably closer to $27,000 a year so $2,250 per month give or take. She had student loans so she is probably cutting down on $400 per month on loan payments. After that all of her classroom supplies, classroom decorations, supplies for projects, books for the class library, etc. all of that comes out of her pocket. The school doesn't pay for any of that. Then you add in the fact that at least for the first few years she is NOT only working 9 months a year. She has to make lesson plans, learn new curricula, and work on refining her methods for the next year. I have known teachers with decades of experience who were hit with a new curriculum for the coming year and spent 4 hours a day all summer long learning the curriculum and deciding how to implement it in their lesson plans. Not to mention that during the school year they aren't simply working from 8 to 3 every day. After all that $35,000 doesn't sound so good.
Sure, the retirement package around here is great. But there is a reason new teachers work an average of 3 years before leaving the field and it isn't because the hours are low and the pay is high.
ETA: Not to mention a certain number of years after getting their teaching licence they have to get a masters degree. I believe that is state wide but I could be wrong about that. But all teachers required to have an MA and pay for it how? On the $30,000 a year take home on top of loans they already have? Forget having kids. Who can afford that?
My parents have friends whose daughter recently graduated and is a first year teacher this year. Her parents were lamenting the fact that she is only being paid $35,000 a year and how little that was. My mother decides that is an appropriate venue to get on her soapbox about the obscene amounts of money teachers are paid and how she thinks that's really good the first year out of college and how my dad hasn't made that much in several years and she gets paid that much for only working 9 months a year and blah blah blah. I tried to explain to my mother that sure, she is being paid $35,000 a year but after taxes it is probably closer to $27,000 a year so $2,250 per month give or take. She had student loans so she is probably cutting down on $400 per month on loan payments. After that all of her classroom supplies, classroom decorations, supplies for projects, books for the class library, etc. all of that comes out of her pocket. The school doesn't pay for any of that. Then you add in the fact that at least for the first few years she is NOT only working 9 months a year. She has to make lesson plans, learn new curricula, and work on refining her methods for the next year. I have known teachers with decades of experience who were hit with a new curriculum for the coming year and spent 4 hours a day all summer long learning the curriculum and deciding how to implement it in their lesson plans. Not to mention that during the school year they aren't simply working from 8 to 3 every day. After all that $35,000 doesn't sound so good.
Sure, the retirement package around here is great. But there is a reason new teachers work an average of 3 years before leaving the field and it isn't because the hours are low and the pay is high.
ETA: Not to mention a certain number of years after getting their teaching licence they have to get a masters degree. I believe that is state wide but I could be wrong about that. But all teachers required to have an MA and pay for it how? On the $30,000 a year take home on top of loans they already have? Forget having kids. Who can afford that?
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cvjw
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2005
People need to use good old common sense. You need to go to a college you can afford and get a major that you can actually support yourself with later in life.
It just befuddles me all these kids going to expensive, out of state schools and then getting women’s studies degrees or Gender studies degrees. This is fine if you can afford the tuition and have wads of money stashed to support yourself with later in life. If not, go to an affordable college and get a degree that pays a living wage.
My boys both wanted to go out of state. We said no. We made them go instate where tuition is free. And get a degree that will support them plus a family later in life.
It just befuddles me all these kids going to expensive, out of state schools and then getting women’s studies degrees or Gender studies degrees. This is fine if you can afford the tuition and have wads of money stashed to support yourself with later in life. If not, go to an affordable college and get a degree that pays a living wage.
My boys both wanted to go out of state. We said no. We made them go instate where tuition is free. And get a degree that will support them plus a family later in life.
ols386
I want to live at Disney World!!
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- Jan 29, 2008
ALL excellent points!
klacey1
DIS Veteran
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- Feb 19, 2008
I think it entirely depends on where in the country they teach. A friend’s starting teaching salary here in the northeast was over $60k.
ols386
I want to live at Disney World!!
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- Jan 29, 2008
TOTALLY agree with you. My kids did first two years at community college, and last two years at University.
Turn the Page
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- Jan 23, 2013
Eh, sometimes. All community colleges are not created equal. Our local CC is horrid. It isn't good for much at all. They lead you to believe that credits will transfer that don't and even if they do it doesn't mean they will do you any good. What matters is if you take the right courses at the CC that will transfer to your university of choice and that they meet graduation requirements. Taking US History at a CC doesn't do you a darn bit of good if you need Western Civilization to graduate from the 4 year university even if it does transfer.
tvguy
Question anything the facts don't support.
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2003
DD attended a California State University and transferred to another California State University campus and a few of her classes did not transfer. Yet ALL her classes from a University in England transferred no problem.
Mackenzie Click-Mickelson
Chugging along the path of life
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- Oct 23, 2015
As a whole I understood the article but I read obvious political slants in the article and thus..my thoughts are impacted. I'm referring the part where it calls a certain political party "some heartless monster" along with "current bogeyman" along with "He's the scammer-in-chief in the Great American Ripoff Age" to name some.
Once you start getting into throwing pot shots at any political party I start to read the information differently. Though I do also look up the bias check on the sources.
*My comment isn't political in nature just how the politics in the article affected my viewpoint*
In regards to the individual in the article it would be helpful to know why and how a person who jointly with his wife owed initially $50,000 after consolidation (of which $35,000 at least prior to consolidation was from the husband alone per the article) went spiralling out of control so fast. Now $18,000 per year can be very difficult to pay a large monthly payment even back when the man graduated (which was a while back since he was 37 in 2009) but how much were the loans per month combined with the interest rate makes a big difference;what was the wife's income per year?. Also is the payment being front loaded on the interest? In other words is the majority of the payments to begin with going towards interest rather than principal? Is this something that overtime changes to where more and more of your payment goes towards principal as the loan amount gets lower? Or is it where the payment is the same each and every month and the interest portion and principal portion stay the same month after month?
Also the laws have been adjusted since man in the beginning of the article went to college. For one the pressure to get students to fully understand their financial impact is greater. But for another...you can't necessarily blame the Student Loan industry if you're completely totally unaware of how interest charges work. Interest charges are not isolated to student loans. Loans in general (including car loans, mortgage loans, personal loans, etc) along with credit cards (if the payment isn't paid in full each month) carry interest charges that can be compounded.
According to some research at least currently Federal Student Loan Rehabilitation programs use this formula:
"Under a loan rehabilitation agreement, your loan holder will determine a reasonable monthly payment amount that is equal to 15 percent of your annual discretionary income, divided by 12. Discretionary income is the amount of your adjusted gross income (from your most recent federal income tax return) that exceeds 150 percent of the poverty guideline amount for your state and family size. You must provide documentation of your income to your loan holder.
If you can’t afford the initial monthly payment amount described above, you can ask your loan holder to calculate an alternative monthly payment based on the amount of your monthly income that remains after reasonable amounts for your monthly expenses have been subtracted. You’ll need to provide documentation of your monthly income and expenses. Depending on your individual circumstances, this alternative payment amount may be lower than the payment amount you were initially offered. To rehabilitate your loan, you must choose one of the two payment amounts."
I wonder if that above way of doing is is newer or older. That would only be for Federal loans though.
I do agree with multiple things in the article just not completely everything.
Once you start getting into throwing pot shots at any political party I start to read the information differently. Though I do also look up the bias check on the sources.
*My comment isn't political in nature just how the politics in the article affected my viewpoint*
In regards to the individual in the article it would be helpful to know why and how a person who jointly with his wife owed initially $50,000 after consolidation (of which $35,000 at least prior to consolidation was from the husband alone per the article) went spiralling out of control so fast. Now $18,000 per year can be very difficult to pay a large monthly payment even back when the man graduated (which was a while back since he was 37 in 2009) but how much were the loans per month combined with the interest rate makes a big difference;what was the wife's income per year?. Also is the payment being front loaded on the interest? In other words is the majority of the payments to begin with going towards interest rather than principal? Is this something that overtime changes to where more and more of your payment goes towards principal as the loan amount gets lower? Or is it where the payment is the same each and every month and the interest portion and principal portion stay the same month after month?
Also the laws have been adjusted since man in the beginning of the article went to college. For one the pressure to get students to fully understand their financial impact is greater. But for another...you can't necessarily blame the Student Loan industry if you're completely totally unaware of how interest charges work. Interest charges are not isolated to student loans. Loans in general (including car loans, mortgage loans, personal loans, etc) along with credit cards (if the payment isn't paid in full each month) carry interest charges that can be compounded.
According to some research at least currently Federal Student Loan Rehabilitation programs use this formula:
"Under a loan rehabilitation agreement, your loan holder will determine a reasonable monthly payment amount that is equal to 15 percent of your annual discretionary income, divided by 12. Discretionary income is the amount of your adjusted gross income (from your most recent federal income tax return) that exceeds 150 percent of the poverty guideline amount for your state and family size. You must provide documentation of your income to your loan holder.
If you can’t afford the initial monthly payment amount described above, you can ask your loan holder to calculate an alternative monthly payment based on the amount of your monthly income that remains after reasonable amounts for your monthly expenses have been subtracted. You’ll need to provide documentation of your monthly income and expenses. Depending on your individual circumstances, this alternative payment amount may be lower than the payment amount you were initially offered. To rehabilitate your loan, you must choose one of the two payment amounts."
I wonder if that above way of doing is is newer or older. That would only be for Federal loans though.
I do agree with multiple things in the article just not completely everything.
Turn the Page
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2013
Yes I know the University of Michigan is like that. There are a couple of different campuses and not all of the credits transfer between them which boggles my mind. I was talking about this issue to a woman who used to be an instructor there and she said they would each decide for themselves if credits would transfer for the course the teach by going over the syllabus of the course the student was trying to transfer credits in for. The individual instructor is the one who would decide if they would accept the credits or not and it didn't matter what any transfer agreements had to say about it and there was nothing the student could do. They had the final say.
Colleen27
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2007
And new teachers now may never get there. Our district been in a step increase freeze for years, and the retirement system is slowly being dismantled in favor of a 401k system. There's a very good reason why all signs point to a major teacher shortage in the relatively near future. What retiring teachers are making today has as little to do with what new and future teachers will earn as what autoworkers of a generation ago made has to do with the prospects for high school educated factory workers today.
lifesavacation
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2016
I lost interest and didn’t finish the article due to the obvious political bias. We do have a student loan problem and it didn’t begin when the current administration took office.
People need to be responsible for their choices. Don’t take out loans if you can’t pay for them. Don’t choose a major that only pays x amount if you need y amount to live. I’m not sure how I feel about loan forgiveness. At the very least, there needs to be an interest cap or a way to negotiate down interest owed.
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