Interesting Rolling Stone article on college debt

[CinderDuffy]

The bolded is incorrect. Payments made on standard repayment plans do count, but the borrower must enter into an income driven repayment play to recieve PSLF. If they were to remain in a standard repayment plan their loan would be paid off in 10 years so there would be nothing to forgive. Quanifying payments must be for the full amount due for the month and must be on time (there is a 15 day grace period for late payments). You cannot be paid ahead, because you wont technically have anything due the next month.

That's exactly what I said.

 

[LSUmiss]

I get that college is expensive, prohibitively expensive for many, but what I don't get is all the people who claim ignorance of what a loan means. I have to pay it back? With interest? I didn't know! I was just a kid! IMO, that excuse is so over.

There are so many more affordable choices and ways to minimize the amount of loans needed. Some student loans coming out of college aren't the end of the world. For many people that route makes some sense. The problem is when you come out with over 100K knowing that you are a liberal arts major, job prospects aren't high paying, and you totally overlooked much more feasible financial options and want sympathy.

My kids were lucky in that we'd bought into a prepaid tuition plan program for them and had plans in place to help them with housing. (We bought a house with less value than we could "afford" and paid it off early, freeing up our mortgage budget for their living expenses.) They worked too and so they came out debt free. Yes, they were lucky, but we were also smart about it and so were they. We told them upfront what the money situation was and they had to make their choices accordingly. Living within your means applies to college too. Some of us have more means, but there are also options for those who don't.

That is not the case for many many low income students. I’m sure they knew it was a loan but did not know how easily they could owe over $60k or what their payments would look like after graduation. And for many, it didn’t matter at the time b/c it was their only option. Not all students are as lucky as your kids. Many parents cannot afford to pay for college much less living expenses as you did. There are NOT “many” ways to make college more affordable for many. Low paying jobs while in school with limited hours b/c of school or loans if they don’t qualify for grants (which have been gutted) or scholarships...that’s about it. It’s not about wanting sympathy for many of them but about feeling like they didn’t have the tools to make informed decisions. As the article & many have pointed out, it’s widely advertised that college is a must. And in some areas, it’s true b/c you can’t get any entry level job b/c many employers require a min of a bachelors b/c it’s become the new high school diploma. So then what are ppl to do. Not everyone can be an MD, engineer, etc. but they’ll still need a basic degree to get any jobs other than a minimum wage job. Trade school may be an option for some, but not everyone can do a trade either. Higher education should not be a luxury.

 

[Mel522]

Also is the payment being front loaded on the interest? In other words is the majority of the payments to begin with going towards interest rather than principal? Is this something that overtime changes to where more and more of your payment goes towards principal as the loan amount gets lower? Or is it where the payment is the same each and every month and the interest portion and principal portion stay the same month after month?

Interest is accrued daily from the principal. When you make a payment it goes to all interest that has accrued up to that point and what's left goes to principal. As you pay the principal down less interest will accrue, and more of you payments will go to principal. If the borrower is on a level plan the payments will theoretically stay the same for the life of the loan (120 terms.). If they are on a graduated repayment plan their monthly payments will increase every 2 years. The first 2 years of payments can be just the monthly interest with nothing going to principal.

 

[Mel522]

That's exactly what I said.

You said payments made while in a standard repayment plan do not count towards PSLF, but they do.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Interest is accrued daily from the principal. When you make a payment it goes to all interest that has accrued up to that point and what's left goes to principal. As you pay the principal down less interest will accrue, and more of you payments will go to principal. If the borrower is on a level plan the payments will theoretically stay the same for the life of the loan (120 terms.). If they are on a graduated repayment plan their monthly payments will increase every 2 years. The first 2 years of payments can be just the monthly interest with nothing going to principal.

I know how the interest works. I was asking how the man in the article's loan was structured as that makes a difference in terms of monthly affordability. The article didn't go into details of what the man's loan was structured as only gave bare bones information that doesn't actually give what their individual situation is.

 

[disykat]

That is not the case for many many low income students. I’m sure they knew it was a loan but did not know how easily they could owe over $60k or what their payments would look like after graduation. And for many, it didn’t matter at the time b/c it was their only option. Not all students are as lucky as your kids. Many parents cannot afford to pay for college much less living expenses as you did. There are NOT “many” ways to make college more affordable for many. Low paying jobs while in school with limited hours b/c of school or loans if they don’t qualify for grants (which have been gutted) or scholarships...that’s about it. It’s not about wanting sympathy for many of them but about feeling like they didn’t have the tools to make informed decisions. As the article & many have pointed out, it’s widely advertised that college is a must. And in some areas, it’s true b/c you can’t get any entry level job b/c many employers require a min of a bachelors b/c it’s become the new high school diploma. So then what are ppl to do. Not everyone can be an MD, engineer, etc. but they’ll still need a basic degree to get any jobs other than a minimum wage job. Trade school may be an option for some, but not everyone can do a trade either. Higher education should not be a luxury.

Did you even read my post? I was very clear that my kids were lucky. I stand by my opinion that there are ways to cut costs if you don't have money. Community college prior to a transfer, doing some of your coursework online, going to a college nearby while living at home, etc. I was clear that I understand the need for loans - it was right there in my post. My beef is with students who blindly seek the college experience without consideration as to whether it is affordable for them and no apparent effort to minimize costs. Yes, my kids could afford more than many, but they didn't go in with blinders on - they chose according to affordability. As for your post where you said they might not know how much in loans they are accumulating - How do you not know what you will owe? Every college lists tuition costs on their website. In both of my kids cases they were able to minimize their expenses so that they were well within (under) the listed anticipated cost of attendance by living in the cheapest dorm or apartment, having a smaller food plan, taking the bus instead of an airplane or owning a car, etc. If it says clearly that the anticipated cost is 25K per year and you have no way to cut costs, you know you're looking at 100K for four years if you have no plan in place to try to reduce it. (work, scholarships, parental help, taking some coursework elsewhere, finding cheaper housing by sharing rooms in a shared home, etc.) It shouldn't be a surprise that it cost 100K.

I watched most of my nieces and nephews do it the stupid way. They'd never worked so had no money saved up, they didn't try to economize. They had single rooms in the dorm because they couldn't envision sharing with a stranger. They used credit cards for entertainment costs and things like furniture pieces and television sets. All things you should know better than to do when you have no income. They all have huge loans, despite having grants, scholarships, and some parental help. They moan now that they were too young and stupid to know better. I call BS. I remember trying to have conversations with them about ways to minimize loans since their parents hadn't done the college thing and also didn't "get it." They weren't interested and it wasn't my place to push. Thankfully, my youngest nephew is smart and learned from some of their mistakes. He has a job, had a shared dorm room and now shares a studio apartment with another person, etc. He has worked hard to keep his costs down. (He's currently working for a year before going on to grad school - again a purely financial decision with the goal of reducing loans.)

I still remember those lovely DIS posts years ago from several young people who had extra loan money they hadn't used so they were going on a full out trip to Disney World! Some people encouraged them to go and have fun because life is short and they deserve it but many of us were horrified and encouraged them to minimize their loans and find cheaper entertainment closer to home.

There are ways to try to economize. My kids were lucky because they had our help and we had the ability to help very significantly, but still they only made it without a bunch of debt because they made good choices. They weren't rich kids with a blank check. They were kids with parents who economized to help them, and they did the same to help themselves.

Everyone agrees that college is expensive. That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. There's really no excuse for someone smart enough to be in college not to understand how loans work.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

One of my son's buddies did horribly in HS. He barely graduated. And it wasn't a smarts issue, it was a laziness issue. Anyway, it became very apparent to his parents that he wasn't ready for college when the time came. Yet, he saw all his friends getting ready to go off to school that summer, and he decided he wanted to go, too, no matter what the cost. He'd somehow gotten one acceptance to a private college (which is another subject altogether) and proceeded to beg his parents at that point to let him go, and live there, saying he'd sign anything, at any cost, it didn't matter, etc.; he just wanted to go. Fortunately they were smart enough to say no. Instead, he took some classes at community college, and had the same issues he had in HS, barely passing those classes and later, dropping out the second semester. Had he gone to that private college, he'd/they'd likely be quite a bit in the hole right now. I know others that this has happened to, as well. Parents and students have to understand early in HS - middle school, even - that what colleges see about them academically will be pretty well set by their junior year of HS. And they need to plan accordingly if the grades aren't there.

 

[LSUmiss]

Did you even read my post? I was very clear that my kids were lucky. I stand by my opinion that there are ways to cut costs if you don't have money. Community college prior to a transfer, doing some of your coursework online, going to a college nearby while living at home, etc. I was clear that I understand the need for loans - it was right there in my post. My beef is with students who blindly seek the college experience without consideration as to whether it is affordable for them and no apparent effort to minimize costs. Yes, my kids could afford more than many, but they didn't go in with blinders on - they chose according to affordability. As for your post - How do you not know what you will owe? Every college lists tuition costs on their website. In both of my kids cases they were able to minimize their expenses so that they were well within (under) the listed anticipated cost of attendance. If it says clearly that the anticipated cost is 25K per year and you have no way to cut costs, you know you're looking at 100K for four years if you have no plan in place to try to reduce it. (work, scholarships, parental help, taking some coursework elsewhere, finding cheaper housing by sharing rooms in a shared home, etc.) It shouldn't be a surprise.

It just doesn’t sound like you are familiar with the population I am referring to. Many are first generation college students. They don’t have the resources or knowledge required to seek the resources they need to minimize costs. The public school guidance counselors in this area are a joke & not much help to these kids. They don’t have parental support to help them navigate the process. They may not know how quickly interest adds up even if they can calculate the cost based on tuition. They also might not realize how much payments will be on those types of loans or what they are realistically going to make in their jobs. Like I said, many seek degrees b/c they need them for basic jobs now so they don’t necessarily have a career path so can’t estimate what they’ll make. But they have been told that they must go to college to have a better standard of living than their parents. And that would be true except they’re now swimming in debt & their degree isn’t as valuable as it once was. But if their parents don’t know this, who will advise them of this? It’s a complicated social issue & seems dissimive to say they should have known b/c your kids who you admitted have been lucky knew.

 

[Mel522]

I know how the interest works. I was asking how the man in the article's loan was structured as that makes a difference in terms of monthly affordability. The article didn't go into details of what the man's loan was structured as only gave bare bones information that doesn't actually give what their individual situation is.

I apologize for trying to help.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

He really is an awesome kid. When he graduated with his associates I asked him if he was transferring to a 4 year school and he said "not yet. I don't have the money." It took me a minute to process it because most people would say "yea once the loans go through." lol But getting a student loan isn't even on his radar. He would rather have no bachelors than have student loan debt. He wants to be a NJ state trooper which requires a bachelors. The plus is now he's working in the field by being a security guard at the college.

I never thought college was for my son but starting in September it's like something clicked and he wants to go to college. It completely threw me for a loop. I was for sure thinking he would do trade school or the military. He insisted on us going to the college meetings and FAFSA meetings. He's all over it now. He wants to do Rutgers but he wasn't always the best student (although since it all clicked this year he's been trying much harder) so I don't know if he'll be accepted but he wants to try. If not he will go to the CC that offers the 3+1 program. If that doesn't work out there is always trade schools but I've told him he can't just do nothing. He has to be working towards something.

It sounds like you have a couple of fine young men in your family, and I look forward to hearing about them achieving their goals! (BTW I really liked Rutgers, my son played ball there one summer and my DD liked it so much, she considered applying there, but ultimately stayed in our own state. Both still occasionally wear the gear they bought from there, though!)

Re the bolded. I just wanted to mention this, and hopefully I can explain it right. At one of the open houses at one of our state universities, the dean of the college explained to us that the school is supported by the taxpayers of the state, so it is "our school". He said that he could just about guarantee that every in-state student that applied to early action would be accepted, especially if either their GPA or SAT scores were decent. There are charts that help explain this, and I'm sure someone else here who is more familiar with the concept can probably explain it better. (And I will attempt a link below.) But I just wanted to mention it because even if your son has only recently taken a big leap towards college, there is still hope if his grades aren't stellar by his attempting to do well on standardized testing. You might want to go speak to them at the school and see which standardized test they prefer (ACT or SAT), because, for instance, at our state schools, they said just SATs were fine. (Here on the Dis we hear a lot about the ACT but those seem to be more prominent in other parts of the country than the Northeast.) He'd do well to concentrate on just the one he needs, then get him some help so he can do well on the exam. Tell him I said that he HAS to put the work into that!! It's very important, but a lot of kids don't really get how much so until it starts to sink in that these scores are very important to their getting into school, sometimes even more important than GPA for certain programs. So have him keep up his grades, start getting some help with standardized testing, and plan to apply to your state schools early action. I told some of my friends this at the time and for those who did it, everyone got in, just like the dean had said. (Note, this was not the UMass system, but the state universities, in case anyone is wondering. It's harder to get into the UMass schools.) Oh, and higher test scores can also yield tuition help.

https://blog.prepscholar.com/low-gpa-high-sat-act-what-should-you-do

https://www.powerscore.com/sat/help/sat_vs_gpa.cfm

HTH. Good luck!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I apologize for trying to help.

No need to apologize wasn't trying to be brisk with you or anything. It's just my original comment I said "In regards to the individual in the article" where I was talking about how their loan was set up.

 

[disykat]

It just doesn’t sound like you are familiar with the population I am referring to. Many are first generation college students. They don’t have the resources or knowledge required to seek the resources they need to minimize costs. The public school guidance counselors in this area are a joke & not much help to these kids. They don’t have parental support to help them navigate the process. They may not know how quickly interest adds up even if they can calculate the cost based on tuition. They also might not realize how much payments will be on those types of loans or what they are realistically going to make in their jobs. Like I said, many seek degrees b/c they need them for basic jobs now so they don’t necessarily have a career path so can’t estimate what they’ll make. But they have been told that they must go to college to have a better standard of living than their parents. And that would be true except they’re now swimming in debt & their degree isn’t as valuable as it once was. But if their parents don’t know this, who will advise them of this? It’s a complicated social issue & seems dismissive to say they should have known b/c your kids who you admitted have been lucky knew.

I am familiar with that population and like I said have seen it at work with my home-schooled nieces and nephews, but I guess I'm REALLY lucky because schools here actually teach how loans work. All the kids have to take that class in junior high. It's called something like "college and careers." Then having a plan that includes the financial element of your plan is part of graduation requirements. I am not a believer in "every child needs to go to college" at all. If you don't know how a loan works, I don't think you are college material. My father was a a very poor first generation college student as was my husband. They figured it out. IMO it's more about attitude about debt than about knowledge.

 

[disney junky]

I was a high school teacher for 30 plus years. I also taught as an adjunct at the local community college. I read the article, and I skimmed a lot of the replies. Here are my observations.
1. Kids assume college guarantees something that it doesn't. A well paying job. A local college has a major called Adventure Education. What the heck is that? Tuition, room and board. Fifty grand a year. I guess you can be a ski instructor....
2. Colleges are in the business of making money. Not in the traditional sense, but they have to fill seats. Some students have no business being there. The drop out rates for four year institutions are still near 50%. But schools need to generate revenue and the biggest way is through tuition.
I'm a big Mike Rowe fan. If a kid hated school, why keep going? There are well paying jobs in the trades, and not enough qualified people to fill them. The local truckers, welders, plumbers, and electricians made more than the average teacher.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

It sounds like you have a couple of fine young men in your family, and I look forward to hearing about them achieving their goals! (BTW I really liked Rutgers, my son played ball there one summer and my DD liked it so much, she considered applying there, but ultimately stayed in our own state. Both still occasionally wear the gear they bought from there, though!)

Re the bolded. I just wanted to mention this, and hopefully I can explain it right. At one of the open houses at one of our state universities, the dean of the college explained to us that the school is supported by the taxpayers of the state, so it is "our school". He said that he could just about guarantee that every in-state student that applied to early action would be accepted, especially if either their GPA or SAT scores were decent. There are charts that help explain this, and I'm sure someone else here who is more familiar with the concept can probably explain it better. (And I will attempt a link below.) But I just wanted to mention it because even if your son has only recently taken a big leap towards college, there is still hope if his grades aren't stellar by his attempting to do well on standardized testing. You might want to go speak to them at the school and see which standardized test they prefer (ACT or SAT), because, for instance, at our state schools, they said just SATs were fine. (Here on the Dis we hear a lot about the ACT but those seem to be more prominent in other parts of the country than the Northeast.) He'd do well to concentrate on just the one he needs, then get him some help so he can do well on the exam. Tell him I said that he HAS to put the work into that!! It's very important, but a lot of kids don't really get how much so until it starts to sink in that these scores are very important to their getting into school, sometimes even more important than GPA for certain programs. So have him keep up his grades, start getting some help with standardized testing, and plan to apply to your state schools early action. I told some of my friends this at the time and for those who did it, everyone got in, just like the dean had said. (Note, this was not the UMass system, but the state universities, in case anyone is wondering. It's harder to get into the UMass schools.) Oh, and higher test scores can also yield tuition help.

https://blog.prepscholar.com/low-gpa-high-sat-act-what-should-you-do

https://www.powerscore.com/sat/help/sat_vs_gpa.cfm

HTH. Good luck!

 

[EMom]

It just doesn’t sound like you are familiar with the population I am referring to. Many are first generation college students. They don’t have the resources or knowledge required to seek the resources they need to minimize costs. The public school guidance counselors in this area are a joke & not much help to these kids. They don’t have parental support to help them navigate the process. They may not know how quickly interest adds up even if they can calculate the cost based on tuition. They also might not realize how much payments will be on those types of loans or what they are realistically going to make in their jobs. Like I said, many seek degrees b/c they need them for basic jobs now so they don’t necessarily have a career path so can’t estimate what they’ll make. But they have been told that they must go to college to have a better standard of living than their parents. And that would be true except they’re now swimming in debt & their degree isn’t as valuable as it once was. But if their parents don’t know this, who will advise them of this? It’s a complicated social issue & seems dissimive to say they should have known b/c your kids who you admitted have been lucky knew.

I was a first generation college graduate. My father was dead and my mother had no clue about what paperwork to fill out, let alone how to complete it. The counselors weren't much help and my relatives hadn't gone to college either. But growing up poor had taught me one thing...Always understand the financial aspect.

I figured out how to take the ACT/SAT, completed my own financial aid and scholarship forms, applied to universities all by myself, etc. I decided to attend CC for two years because the scholarship they offered was so good that I MADE money, which I put away for the last two years. I finally had to take out some loans near the end, but made sure how much I'd have to pay if I took the whole time to repay those loans. Interest was higher then, so I paid them off ASAP. They were my priority.

When my husband and I bought our first house, we looked at the sheet that tells you what you'll actually pay for that house if you take all 30 years to pay it off. YIKES. We've done that with every house since, and because we are debt averse, we do without other things so we can pay extra on our house. Every single time we sign loan papers, the person on the other side says something to the effect of, " You wouldn't believe how many people don't even glance at that payoff sheet. They just sign it."

We have one child. We began putting money in a prepaid tuition plan for her as an infant. Yes, she'll have to go to a state university instead of a private one. So did we. That's fine. We did without other things to pay for that plan. Believe me, we missed the money. We also put money away in a college fund. Same thing...lived more simply so we could help her go to college. Still, we are not close to 100%.

She was very close to having an ACT/SAT score that would secure a scholarship and help significantly with university costs. I told her she had to retake it until she got the magic number, or she'd be at CC instead. She finally secured the scholarship. So she can attend a state university all 4 years if she wants. We've gone over costs with her, and made it plain WE will not take on any debt for college. She will. We explained that too much student loan debt means no new car and no house. No trips. So our goal is $10,000 as her total debt, and I think that is possible. Otherwise, it would be CC for her and then a state university.

Our child is much more fortunate financially than I was, but that's no excuse for either of us to be clueless. If you are determined, you can find a way to figure all this out, but it is not easy. However, since the debt is yours in the end, you alone are responsible for figuring it out.

 

[LSUmiss]

I was a high school teacher for 30 plus years. I also taught as an adjunct at the local community college. I read the article, and I skimmed a lot of the replies. Here are my observations.
1. Kids assume college guarantees something that it doesn't. A well paying job. A local college has a major called Adventure Education. What the heck is that? Tuition, room and board. Fifty grand a year. I guess you can be a ski instructor....
2. Colleges are in the business of making money. Not in the traditional sense, but they have to fill seats. Some students have no business being there. The drop out rates for four year institutions are still near 50%. But schools need to generate revenue and the biggest way is through tuition.
I'm a big Mike Rowe fan. If a kid hated school, why keep going? There are well paying jobs in the trades, and not enough qualified people to fill them. The local truckers, welders, plumbers, and electricians made more than the average teacher.

I think your number 1 is the biggest issue. Especially for kids who come from low socioeconomic backgrounds, they think that college is the only way out of their hole & think they have to get to college at all costs. Many of these kids come from families who can only worry about day-to-day issues. They don’t have the luxury of meticulously planning out their futures. Life doesn’t work that way for them. I work in an urban public school system. Almost all the kids I talk to want to go to college. That’s just not realistic the for most of them.

 

[maddiel]

Did you even read my post? I was very clear that my kids were lucky. I stand by my opinion that there are ways to cut costs if you don't have money. Community college prior to a transfer, doing some of your coursework online, going to a college nearby while living at home, etc. I was clear that I understand the need for loans - it was right there in my post. My beef is with students who blindly seek the college experience without consideration as to whether it is affordable for them and no apparent effort to minimize costs. Yes, my kids could afford more than many, but they didn't go in with blinders on - they chose according to affordability. As for your post where you said they might not know how much in loans they are accumulating - How do you not know what you will owe? Every college lists tuition costs on their website. In both of my kids cases they were able to minimize their expenses so that they were well within (under) the listed anticipated cost of attendance by living in the cheapest dorm or apartment, having a smaller food plan, taking the bus instead of an airplane or owning a car, etc. If it says clearly that the anticipated cost is 25K per year and you have no way to cut costs, you know you're looking at 100K for four years if you have no plan in place to try to reduce it. (work, scholarships, parental help, taking some coursework elsewhere, finding cheaper housing by sharing rooms in a shared home, etc.) It shouldn't be a surprise that it cost 100K.

I watched most of my nieces and nephews do it the stupid way. They'd never worked so had no money saved up, they didn't try to economize. They had single rooms in the dorm because they couldn't envision sharing with a stranger. They used credit cards for entertainment costs and things like furniture pieces and television sets. All things you should know better than to do when you have no income. They all have huge loans, despite having grants, scholarships, and some parental help. They moan now that they were too young and stupid to know better. I call BS. I remember trying to have conversations with them about ways to minimize loans since their parents hadn't done the college thing and also didn't "get it." They weren't interested and it wasn't my place to push. Thankfully, my youngest nephew is smart and learned from some of their mistakes. He has a job, had a shared dorm room and now shares a studio apartment with another person, etc. He has worked hard to keep his costs down. (He's currently working for a year before going on to grad school - again a purely financial decision with the goal of reducing loans.)

I still remember those lovely DIS posts years ago from several young people who had extra loan money they hadn't used so they were going on a full out trip to Disney World! Some people encouraged them to go and have fun because life is short and they deserve it but many of us were horrified and encouraged them to minimize their loans and find cheaper entertainment closer to home.

There are ways to try to economize. My kids were lucky because they had our help and we had the ability to help very significantly, but still they only made it without a bunch of debt because they made good choices. They weren't rich kids with a blank check. They were kids with parents who economized to help them, and they did the same to help themselves.

Everyone agrees that college is expensive. That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. There's really no excuse for someone smart enough to be in college not to understand how loans work.

I bolded two parts of your post. I suspect that the guidance and advice you were able to give your children was more valuable than the financial assistance you could give them and that those who don't have have the knowledge to help their children navigate the university system - and many people - like your other family members - don't know what they don't know.

M.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It just doesn’t sound like you are familiar with the population I am referring to. Many are first generation college students. They don’t have the resources or knowledge required to seek the resources they need to minimize costs. The public school guidance counselors in this area are a joke & not much help to these kids. They don’t have parental support to help them navigate the process. They may not know how quickly interest adds up even if they can calculate the cost based on tuition. They also might not realize how much payments will be on those types of loans or what they are realistically going to make in their jobs. Like I said, many seek degrees b/c they need them for basic jobs now so they don’t necessarily have a career path so can’t estimate what they’ll make. But they have been told that they must go to college to have a better standard of living than their parents. And that would be true except they’re now swimming in debt & their degree isn’t as valuable as it once was. But if their parents don’t know this, who will advise them of this? It’s a complicated social issue & seems dissimive to say they should have known b/c your kids who you admitted have been lucky knew.

I totally get where you're coming from but like I mentioned before student loans are the least of someone's worry IMO if you don't understand the basics of borrowing money. Those students in the population you are speaking of quite honestly from your descriptions would be disadvantaged throughout life period-even without going to college and taking out a student loan.

It would be just as easy for someone to swim in debt if they qualified for a credit card for example if they don't understand that you are borrowing money that comes with interest (if not paid off each month). It would be just as easy for someone to swim in debt if they qualified for a personal loan for example if they don't understand that you are borrowing money that comes with interest. It would be just as easy for someone to swim in debt if they qualified for a car loan for example if they don't understand that you are borrowing money that comes with interest. It would be just as easy for someone to swim in debt if they qualified for a mortgage for example if they don't understand that you are borrowing money that comes with interest.

Those are unfortunately examples of a systematic problem much larger than teaching students in high school about taking out college loans. You're right in that certain things are more related to student loans such as pressure to go to college regardless of your actual abilities, your actual asperations, etc.

 

[LSUmiss]

I was a first generation college graduate. My father was dead and my mother had no clue about what paperwork to fill out, let alone how to complete it. The counselors weren't much help and my relatives hadn't gone to college either. But growing up poor had taught me one thing...Always understand the financial aspect.

I figured out how to take the ACT/SAT, completed my own financial aid and scholarship forms, applied to universities all by myself, etc. I decided to attend CC for two years because the scholarship they offered was so good that I MADE money, which I put away for the last two years. I finally had to take out some loans near the end, but made sure how much I'd have to pay if I took the whole time to repay those loans. Interest was higher then, so I paid them off ASAP. They were my priority.

When my husband and I bought our first house, we looked at the sheet that tells you what you'll actually pay for that house if you take all 30 years to pay it off. YIKES. We've done that with every house since, and because we are debt averse, we do without other things so we can pay extra on our house. Every single time we sign loan papers, the person on the other side says something to the effect of, " You wouldn't believe how many people don't even glance at that payoff sheet. They just sign it."

We have one child. We began putting money in a prepaid tuition plan for her as an infant. Yes, she'll have to go to a state university instead of a private one. So did we. That's fine. We did without other things to pay for that plan. Believe me, we missed the money. We also put money away in a college fund. Same thing...lived more simply so we could help her go to college. Still, we are not close to 100%.

She was very close to having an ACT/SAT score that would secure a scholarship and help significantly with university costs. I told her she had to retake it until she got the magic number, or she'd be at CC instead. She finally secured the scholarship. So she can attend a state university all 4 years if she wants. We've gone over costs with her, and made it plain WE will not take on any debt for college. She will. We explained that too much student loan debt means no new car and no house. No trips. So our goal is $10,000 as her total debt, and I think that is possible. Otherwise, it would be CC for her and then a state university.

Our child is much more fortunate financially than I was, but that's no excuse for either of us to be clueless. If you are determined, you can find a way to figure all this out, but it is not easy. However, since the debt is yours in the end, you alone are responsible for figuring it out.

I am not just referring to being poor. It’s a whole other level to be poor AND uninformed & undereducated & lack resources & access to opportunities. Of course, there are always exceptions of ppl who succeed despite. But as the article points out, this seems to be a pervasive systemic problem. Like I said in a pp, a handful of ppl, you can argue it’s the individual. But when it becomes this widespread, you need to take a look at the system.

 

[Christine]

I'm a big Mike Rowe fan. If a kid hated school, why keep going? There are well paying jobs in the trades, and not enough qualified people to fill them. The local truckers, welders, plumbers, and electricians made more than the average teacher.

This is absolutely true. But...as I've said here for years...what about the girls? Yes, I know girls can be plumbers, electricians, welders, etc. but let's face it, most do not want to take on that kind of work. My husband is in the trades and it's been wonderful. He's been in for 25 years. The number of women has not increased and they aren't really interested.

My daughter was one of these college kids who probably shouldn't have been there but she did make it through. But she needs a "trade" but not sure what that is for a woman. Hairstylist? Nothing wrong with that but certainly not as lucrative or "safe" as the male dominated trades are.