Let’s help new pin traders avoid the cheap pins

[PinGirl]

Y'know, Disney could profit from all of the couterfeit/scrappers by offering an authentication service. I'm sure there are some people out there who would be willing to send a bag of pins just for piece of mind. I'm sure some third party could try offering such a service, but I think that only Disney is in a position to say definitively whether a pin is authentic.

Also, can anyone give insight into how Disney "scrubs" or "refreshes" the cast lanyards each night? I've heard that cast members turn in their lanyards each night, and someone goes through them to remove obvious counterfeits/scrappers, non-Disney pins, Sedesmas, etc, and replace them with authentic pins. If this is true, that would mean that the best time to trade pins with Cast Members is first thing in the morning, so you can avoid getting scrappers that would have been traded with the CMs. Even if this were the case, I imagine that the overwhelming number of pins they'd have to go through each night would limit their ability to scrutinize for scrappers. Most of the counterfiets/scrappers I see are very, VERY difficult to spot; they're virtually identical to authentic pins.

I agree with you! I am just wondering if there is anything we can do. Anyone we can write to?? Anyone we can show the pins to...to put pressure on them to change as I am tired of seeing that an older pin of mine has been faked and is no longer worth what I may have invested in it. Or a Lanyard I traded for may not be as good as the pin I traded for it. I still love the hobby - but I am looking at cutting back a lot on buying pins and trading them due to the scrapper situation.

I am suppose to meet friends in September for the Pin trading event and for one friend it will be her first time at a pin event - I want it to be fun for her not a downer due to the scrappers.....

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

Disney employees are encouraged to wear pin lanyards, they are not mandated to be able to spot a counterfeit.

The lanyards are NOT always refreshed at the end of a shift. It depends on the supervisor for each area - some are more diligent than others. Some CMs will put new pins on during breaks, others don't. I would bet money that there is NOT a person who sits and pulls the pins off each CM lanyard, verifies authenticity, etc. I would also bet money that some CMs begin their shifts with the pins they ended with the day before, fakes and all.

I am REALLY offended that there are people willing to toss their hands up and say it is too hard and too expensive to trade authentic pins so they are just going to trade what they have and be done with it. Nice attitude. NO WONDER the eBay sellers are making enormous profits. If nobody was going to get those fake pins in the end then fine. But somebody WILL get them, so it is NOT fine. If people can't be bothered to participate properly then don't participate. Simple enough.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

I agree with you! I am just wondering if there is anything we can do. Anyone we can write to?? Anyone we can show the pins to...to put pressure on them to change as I am tired of seeing that an older pin of mine has been faked and is no longer worth what I may have invested in it. Or a Lanyard I traded for may not be as good as the pin I traded for it. I still love the hobby - but I am looking at cutting back a lot on buying pins and trading them due to the scrapper situation.

I am suppose to meet friends in September for the Pin trading event and for one friend it will be her first time at a pin event - I want it to be fun for her not a downer due to the scrappers.....

I showed one of my fakes to a manager at Epcot and he just sort of blew it off. BUT in the grand scheme of things I am sure he has bigger fish to fry - he isn't the pin police. I don't even know what his job description was because we were talking to him out in the middle of the park.
I have a bag of scrappers that I thought about bringing to Guest Relations, but some of them came from eBay. So they will tell me it is my own fault for being stupid enough to buy from eBay. Which it is.

I guess if I keep track of the fakes I pull from CM lanyards this summer and take THOSE to Guest Relations I might have a better complaint, but what are they supposed to do? Give me a Fast Pass and send me on my way? It wasn't Disney's intention for people to buy thousands of fake pins from eBay and flood the parks with them. And now it is completely out of hand.

The thing to remember is that part of the responsibility is with us as traders. If we aren't part of the solution (trading ONLY authentic pins) then we are part of the PROBLEM. If nobody bought and traded the fakes there wouldn't BE a problem, now would there?

 

[tnmomof4]

I showed one of my fakes to a manager at Epcot and he just sort of blew it off. BUT in the grand scheme of things I am sure he has bigger fish to fry - he isn't the pin police. I don't even know what his job description was because we were talking to him out in the middle of the park.
I have a bag of scrappers that I thought about bringing to Guest Relations, but some of them came from eBay. So they will tell me it is my own fault for being stupid enough to buy from eBay. Which it is.

I guess if I keep track of the fakes I pull from CM lanyards this summer and take THOSE to Guest Relations I might have a better complaint, but what are they supposed to do? Give me a Fast Pass and send me on my way? It wasn't Disney's intention for people to buy thousands of fake pins from eBay and flood the parks with them. And now it is completely out of hand.

The thing to remember is that part of the responsibility is with us as traders. If we aren't part of the solution (trading ONLY authentic pins) then we are part of the PROBLEM. If nobody bought and traded the fakes there wouldn't BE a problem, now would there?

That's why I decided not to buy pins off e-bay. I wanted to when I read of others getting such cheap pins. I came here, asked advice, and realized that it is really a good chance that the pins you buy off e-bay and some of these other on-line places are going to be fake/scrappers. I just don't feel right about letting my kids trade fake pins or even pins that might be scrappers.

I know that lots of people don't care. When I asked about pins (not on this thread) most people say they buy the cheap pins and don't care about the quality or even if they are fake because they plan on trading up. They claim it is just for fun. They say it is just for fun so why does it matter if they are trading fake pins. They even say they don't care if they are getting fake pins in return since it is just for fun. Lots of people say that it is just too expensive to buy real pins at WDW so they get the cheap pins to trade.

I guess for me it loses that fun feeling when you end up getting a fake or cheap pin. I know that we have a couple fake pins that we traded for a good, bought at Disney pin. For me, I wouldn't feel right knowing my kids were trading cheap fake/scrapper pins that someone else will most likely end up with.

I also asked a CM at the pin store at DTD about her pins. She said that she and the other CMs start every day with the pins they end up with from the day before.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

Tnmomof4, thank you for doing the right thing!

I guess I just don't get how people can BLATANTLY endorse buying and trading fakes. Would those people use counterfeit money if it looked really good, almost just like real money?

If they were buying fakes to KEEP, then fine. But buying fakes because one can't be bothered to buy REAL pins is wrong. Morally and ethically it is wrong. And the sellers are even worse. At the absolute bottom of the scum barrel are the producers - they are doing something ILLEGAL.

 

[PinGirl]

The thing to remember is that part of the responsibility is with us as traders. If we aren't part of the solution (trading ONLY authentic pins) then we are part of the PROBLEM. If nobody bought and traded the fakes there wouldn't BE a problem, now would there?

I agree! That is why Since last year I only buy from official Disney sources. Yes it costs a little more but at least I know I am not flooding the park with bad pins. To me this is part of the official Disney Spirit. I would hate for someone to think they got a good trade from me only to find out the pin is bad. I have looked through some Lanyard pins from old trips and realised some were good others fake.

I also wanted to mention in the past I purchased from Pinseller.com and on the first few pages of this post - it is mentioned as a good place to purchase.

when I received the pins they looked great. In retrospect I believe all these pins are scrappers as when I went in to look at the site the other day - every single pin for sale individually is also on the knock off list on Dizpins. Can someone else look at these and tell me what you think?

PinGirl

 

[PinGirl]

Tnmomof4, thank you for doing the right thing!

I guess I just don't get how people can BLATANTLY endorse buying and trading fakes. Would those people use counterfeit money if it looked really good, almost just like real money?

If they were buying fakes to KEEP, then fine. But buying fakes because one can't be bothered to buy REAL pins is wrong. Morally and ethically it is wrong. And the sellers are even worse. At the absolute bottom of the scum barrel are the producers - they are doing something ILLEGAL.

Because of how Corporate America is - we may be facing a situation where the Scrappers are part of a back room deal where they are actually "allowed" to make runs over and above what Disney authorises - otherwise I do not know why they would let this go on - I can't believe Walt would have allowed it in his day.

DH and I will really be watching our trades in the future and I agree it does take some of the fun out of it as we have been trading since 2000 when it was not an issue - so suddenly asking to look at the back of every pin - ..but I guess that's where we are now......

My sister just came back from WDW she said they looked at the back of every pin they traded for - if it looked weird/Fake -they handed it back.........

 

[astrodrummergirl]

So I guess the main tips to pin traders new and old would be:

• Buy pins from:
• - Disneyshopping during sales and deals to get inexpensive pins direct from Disney
• - The Disney Store during Sales
• - Disney Outlet Stores
• If you have to buy from eBay, always find a reputable seller who has a high feedback percentage (98% and up) and scrutenize photos and details or ask for detailed photos, eg. the backs of pins
• If really bothered, check the backs of pins as you receive them, if it doesn't look right to you, don't trade for it.

I guess most people would probably want to avoid eBay but those who can't readily buy pins from those other sources if you live outside the US and such.

And just to add, on eBay, it does help to read through the members feedback, if they have a mass of negative feedback, they obviously aren't as trustworthy as those with less, no matter how many they have total. That's my general rule for eBay, and has worked quite well.

 

[meandtheguys2]

What a hassle. I traded for every pin I have. If there are scrappers in the bunch, I got them from a CM. (Not that I have noticed any that look funky) If I decide to sell any on ebay, I would do so with minimal feedback, because I only have sold stuff, a dozen or so times.

But in the book of people on this thread, I shouldn't be trusted. That is rather sad.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

Because of how Corporate America is - we may be facing a situation where the Scrappers are part of a back room deal where they are actually "allowed" to make runs over and above what Disney authorises - otherwise I do not know why they would let this go on - I can't believe Walt would have allowed it in his day.

DH and I will really be watching our trades in the future and I agree it does take some of the fun out of it as we have been trading since 2000 when it was not an issue - so suddenly asking to look at the back of every pin - ..but I guess that's where we are now......

My sister just came back from WDW she said they looked at the back of every pin they traded for - if it looked weird/Fake -they handed it back.........

I don't know much about the inner workings of Chinese pin factories. It seems that someone in China has found an extremely lucrative sideline - sell the "scrappers" instead of scrapping them, and while they are at it, might as well make some counterfeits, too! But we are missing a lot of info.

Is there only ONE factory that produces Disney pins? Are the people selling the scrappers also the counterfeiters, or are they separate groups? Does Disney try to stop them? If Disney hasn't tried to stop them as of yet then what is the turning point? We have discussed before that Disney doesn't SELL cast lanyard and Hidden Mickey pins, so they are not exactly losing revenue there. They ARE losing revenue, though. People are buying fake pins on eBay instead of buying in the parks or from Disney Shopping.

I spent $230 on pins in the Disney Store last week, and about $300 on pins from Disney Shopping the week before. Could I have gotten more pins for my money on eBay? Yep. BUT my pins are authentic and I know the people who trade with CMs for my pins will get really nice pins.

 

[GrillMouster]

If you have to buy from eBay, always find a reputable seller who has a high feedback percentage (98% and up) and scrutenize photos and details or ask for detailed photos, eg. the backs of pins...And just to add, on eBay, it does help to read through the members feedback, if they have a mass of negative feedback, they obviously aren't as trustworthy as those with less, no matter how many they have total.

Unfortunatley, most of the people selling lots of counterfiets and scrappers on ebay have almost 100% positive feedback. Most of the buyers are clueless about scrappers and counterfeits, so they leave fanstastic feedback, because the pins look okay. So, yes, if a seller has negative feedback you avoid him/her. However, the fact that a seller has purely positive feedback does not mean that he/she is selling authentic pins.

 

[GrillMouster]

People keep saying that the best thing we pin traders can do to fight against the distributors of counterfeit/scrapper pins is to make sure that we only buy authentic pins from Disney, Disney Store, disneyshopping.com, etc.. Even if were were able to get every pin trader on the disboards to follow this advice, there would still be tens of thousands of fake pins being sold daily on ebay, making their way onto lanyards at the parks. Most buyers are not on the disboards. The end result would be that we'd spend more of our money on authentic pins, and we'd be trading them away for counterfeits at the parks. And, even though Disney is not making money on the fake pins being sold on ebay, it's making PLENTY of profit on the pins it sells at the parks, Disney Store, and disneyshopping.com. You can say all you want about feeling morally justified and having a good conscious because you purchased and traded a legitimate pin, but the fact is that you're getting SUCKERED, and that SUCKS.

So how about this...how about everybody stops buying pins from Disney, and starts buying counterfeits/scrappers and trading them at the parks? I'm willing to bet that Disney would REALLY start to care when their pin sales drop and the Hidden Mickey/Cast Lanyard pins that cost them money to manufacture are being traded for fakes that were purchased elsewhere. Sure, it would suck for the few people who buy pins at the parks and trade them, but that's already happening now. Besides, the misfortune would be short-lived, for Disney would QUICKLY go after the counterfeiters with the wrath of God and would do more to eliminate counterfeits/scrappers from Cast Members' lanyards.

I'm not saying that this is what we should do...I'm just playing devil's advocate.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

Unfortunatley, most of the people selling lots of counterfiets and scrappers on ebay have almost 100% positive feedback. Most of the buyers are clueless about scrappers and counterfeits, so they leave fanstastic feedback, because the pins look okay. So, yes, if a seller has negative feedback you avoid him/her. However, the fact that a seller has purely positive feedback does not mean that he/she is selling authentic pins.

Very, very true. We left positive feedback for sellers before we knew they sold us fakes. Later on we realized the pins were scrappers but you can't edit feedback!

I think the ONLY reason we are still trading is because there are still SOME authentic pins out there. I'm willing to look for them. If I was going to go trade fakes for fakes I wouldn't waste my time or money.

Eventually the bottom will fall out of pin trading the way it falls out of ALL collectibles. The scrapper issue is just hastening the end.

 

[Macca1111]

Disneyshopping online does have clearanced pins at times and it is worth peeking there at least one time weekly I think to check. If you can get brand new pins, on their cards, arriving bubble wrapped and ready to pack for $2.00 - $3.00 each... you can't go wrong! Don't count it out as a potential place to get great deals... at least you are certain theirs are tradeable and authentic!

Where do you check for the sales? I have the hardest time navigating the Disney websites...

 

[Donald is #1]

Where do you check for the sales? I have the hardest time navigating the Disney websites...

I watch the emails from Disney Shopping and once in a while go over a spot check the prices on the pins to see if they have been marked down.

 

[kimsuenew]

Where do you check for the sales? I have the hardest time navigating the Disney websites...

I signed up for email notifications of sales, so every week or so I get an email with some special deal or code (site-wide, not just for pins).

I also make a point, about once a week, to go the site (even without notification) and just look around!

Cheaper pins are not easy to find, as they are just intertwined inside the pin catagories. This means you have to open up every pin catagory and then look through all pins within each catagory (the different pages). It takes a little time, but when you find them... it's worth it!

When I found my "bargain 80+ pins" to trade in 2008, it was during a big sale that was posted in here, sometime before Christmas (2007). It was to get Croc's for under $15.00 a pair. While on, getting my three pairs of Crocs, I peeked at pins and quickly added them to my cart! They cost me a little less than $2.50 per pin, and they are all Limited Edition (1,000 each), on the black Disney cards, even wrapped in bubble wrap. I simply put the box they came in, with my bubble wrapped bundles, in my WDW suitcase to take in 2008!

As soon as I found my bargain pins, I quickly added a post on the same post I found the Crocs on, and others went on to buy them as well (and several posted their deals) so keep an eye on the budget board! Disneyshopping online lets you stack codes (use more than one) and people are so good on the Disboards Budget Board, about posting codes!

I feel much better, knowing that I have genuine Disney pins to trade while we are down again in 2008!

The cost was minimal, at less that $2.50 each, including S&H costs (free). People pay that on Ebay often, where they run the chance of getting fakes or scrappers. I know there is no guarantee that I will receive genuine pins while trading them BUT it will ensure I do not pass "junk" on to others!

Pin trading is so awesome, but I agree that if all of this continues (fakes/scrappers/ect...) it may be discontinued, which is sad for those of us that are honest and enjoy it!

 

[meandtheguys2]

Very, very true. We left positive feedback for sellers before we knew they sold us fakes. Later on we realized the pins were scrappers but you can't edit feedback!

I think the ONLY reason we are still trading is because there are still SOME authentic pins out there. I'm willing to look for them. If I was going to go trade fakes for fakes I wouldn't waste my time or money.

Eventually the bottom will fall out of pin trading the way it falls out of ALL collectibles. The scrapper issue is just hastening the end.

I couldn't trade pins if it was all about what is collectible, and what isn't. At that point, I would have had to start telling my kids they couldn't trade for what they liked (sedesma hyenas, one year!!!! ) Maybe I got some scrappers on this trip, but I love every pin I collected. We had a lovely time, without being paranoid about the experience.

This isn't to justify buying nasty pins (and I think many are, and I don't/won't buy them). It is just to say that if the joy is lost in the worries of being ripped off, there is no way we would still do it. Lord knows my husband would be thrilled to walk thru the parks and not have to stop a dozen times to look at lanyards!

 

[Tomh]

I can't help but feel that some rather hot words in this thread are aimed at me, so I'd like to point a few things out. First off, I would never purposely purchase a counterfeit, or otherwise illegitimate pin, and then knowing try to pass it off in the park, I'm not that desperate to save money, and I'm not a thief. I DID pass off fake money, just about a year ago, because I had NO idea it was fake.

When I first decided that I wanted to buy pins for my kids to trade, I came here and did as much research as I could, in hopes of finding a reputable dealer where I could get a decent price. Like PinGirl, I read through this thread, and saw a couple of recommendations for PinSeller.com. I didn't see a single person in this thread anywhere mention any problems with the pins from PinSeller, and so I purchased from them, believing that I had good information.

There is one pin that I am CERTAIN is not good, and I am not going to let my kids trade it. There are quite a few that I am certain are just fine. The problem comes with all the Cast Lanyard Series pins, which Pin Pics says could be fake, but no one can tell for certain. What do you do with that? Do I scrap all of them because there is a CHANCE that they might be fake? Should I stick to buying $6 pins, and trading them for pins off CM lanyards when there is no way that I can tell if the pins I'm getting in return are worth $6, or $.06?

For every honest person that has a pile of scrappers set aside in a bag, there are 1000 others who either don't know, or don't care, and are passing them off in the parks. If it is THAT easy for you to tell the difference between the real things, and the fakes, then it shouldn't be a problem for you, because you will just make certain that you don't trade for any fakes.

I don't mind admitting that after spending hours looking at pins, and pictures, I don't have a clue whether half of them are fake or real, and I certainly won't be able to tell if the pins my kids are trading for in the parks are fake or real, and to tell you the god's honest truth, I don't care if they get fake pins or real pins when they trade with CM's, as long as they get pins that they like that is all that matters.

It would seem that some are angry at me because I've come to the realization that I can't tell the difference between the fakes, and the real ones, and so I am going to count on the Disney employees to know the difference (at least they work for Disney, one would think they might have better information available to them about the Disney made pins than I do) and let me know if my kids are trying to trade a pin that is fake. Yet, by being angry over the possibility of getting a fake pin in trade with a CM, those same people are admitting that they can't tell the difference either, or else they wouldn't care if CM's have fakes.

If, as many here have suggested, there is a very real probability that my kids will wind up getting at least a few fakes from the CM's that they trade with, then I don't feel too bad knowing that there is a chance that some of the pins that they are going to trade away might be fake too.

As I said, any pin I KNOW is bogus, I won't let them trade, but if I can't tell for sure, well I'm just going to count on the CM's to tell the difference, and I'll figure that if they accept it for trade it should be good.

 

[meandtheguys2]

Tomh, I figure we all do the best we can! And then our job is to enjoy our vacation!

I'm right there with you. We'd never buy crappy pins to trade. Sorry you got some that are a concern! And I keep those that are icky (like the sedesmas the kids have traded FOR) for bulletin boards actually!

I hope that you and yours have a lovely time, enjoy your trades (none can be worse than the sedesma hyenas!) and don't let people get to you.

 

[PinGirl]

Tomh, After much fretting this week I realise I can't care more than Disney does!

I am going to do my best - but that's all I can do - I agree with meandtheboys - have a great vacation - let the kids trade and enjoy. I will do the best I can do - but all I can do is my best! I am not the big corporation that can stop it at the factory.

I will trade Legit Disney pins as that's how I have always done it. I may not be aware that others are not legit - but I won't knowingly pass a bad pin to someone. Since there are so many people who are unaware of the problem and don't follow these boards - seems like that's all we can do - until Disney decides to put a stop to it! (If they even care)