My long night home from EPCOT, those darn double loading buses and the EPCOT boat...

[LGH1946]

Yes, I have ridden on those buses that are level with the sidewalks and they are great, just not many of them. I didn't know there was a ramp that could be used to make it easier to step on the bus. I also didn't know that there were parking places for the handicapped in the regular parking where you could ride the tram. If I had, that is what I would have done instead of having to walk so far from the handicapped parking. I have just not been looking in the right places, I guess, to get these tips. But now I know so I will be better prepared for next time. I am not a complainer even if it seems like it. I guess it's just that I am sad that I can't just run around the parks like I used to and it is just more difficult and painful. I know that I am a lot better off than a lot of people who have really severe handicaps. I love Disney and I hope that I can go again in a couple of years. I hope everyone has a great time whenever you go and however you get there.

 

[disney david]

Yes, I have ridden on those buses that are level with the sidewalks and they are great, just not many of them. I didn't know there was a ramp that could be used to make it easier to step on the bus. I also didn't know that there were parking places for the handicapped in the regular parking where you could ride the tram. If I had, that is what I would have done instead of having to walk so far from the handicapped parking. I have just not been looking in the right places, I guess, to get these tips. But now I know so I will be better prepared for next time. I am not a complainer even if it seems like it. I guess it's just that I am sad that I can't just run around the parks like I used to and it is just more difficult and painful. I know that I am a lot better off than a lot of people who have really severe handicaps. I love Disney and I hope that I can go again in a couple of years. I hope everyone has a great time whenever you go and however you get there.

There more of the low floor buses then the old and give it a year a you wont see those old buses anymore. With the new buses the ramp at the back door that come out it not a lift so it wont lift you on the bus just gives you a ramp to walk/wheel up easier then the old buses. By the time you go back and i wsih soon their should be none of the old buses left so hopefully tha will make it a little better.

 

[blondietink]

We were at Epcot Saturday night and it was very crowded, for sure. We had our car and the line to get out of the parking lot was horrible. So, we didn't need to use the buses for our wheelchairs.

we stayed at POP in August 2009 and had no trouble with the bus service anywhere. In fact, they brought in an extra bus just for wheelchairs and their families in 3 different parks at closing to handle the extra needs. We stayed at CBR this past August and it was very efficient also. We were very pleased with the bus service, and have been every time we have used it.

 

[Mrsjvb]

And your point is?

Just because abled bodied load faster, is no reason to discriminate against the disabled.

If they would stop sending out busses 2 at a time, busses would not be double parked. It could be 1st come, 1st served if they staggered the busses.

not entirely convinced it IS discrimination.

okay, so the second arrival cannot logisitically do what is madated under ADA but What if the 1st bus arrives and there is already a WC or ECV on it? should the 'Walkers' also be penalized just cuz an ECV cannot load?

I see both points of the argument and bottom Line, Disney needs to move the largest number of bodies..able or otherwise, in the most efficient way possible.

So because dude number 3 in the WC accessible line cannot load on the second bus, then an extra 75 hot dirty cranky people should be made to suffer alongside too?

 

[pampam]

not entirely convinced it IS discrimination.

okay, so the second arrival cannot logisitically do what is madated under ADA but What if the 1st bus arrives and there is already a WC or ECV on it? should the 'Walkers' also be penalized just cuz an ECV cannot load?

I see both points of the argument and bottom Line, Disney needs to move the largest number of bodies..able or otherwise, in the most efficient way possible.

So because dude number 3 in the WC accessible line cannot load on the second bus, then an extra 75 hot dirty cranky people should be made to suffer alongside too?

No, not exactly. If the scond bus would do like Bill mentioned in post 19, then all could get where they wanted. If the 2nd bus stays back until the first bus pulls out, then the next 75 people including the wheelchair could be loaded.

 

[crashbb]

not entirely convinced it IS discrimination.

okay, so the second arrival cannot logisitically do what is madated under ADA but What if the 1st bus arrives and there is already a WC or ECV on it? should the 'Walkers' also be penalized just cuz an ECV cannot load?

I see both points of the argument and bottom Line, Disney needs to move the largest number of bodies..able or otherwise, in the most efficient way possible.

So because dude number 3 in the WC accessible line cannot load on the second bus, then an extra 75 hot dirty cranky people should be made to suffer alongside too?

Actually, from what I understand of the laws, yes. If the bus is "full" for ECVs, it is full for everyone.

I don't however, see most people in ECVs advocating that this law be followed. They just don't want to have to sit through 5 buses, before there is one that they can get one.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

Also don't forget Disney transportation on a busy day moves the equivalent of the city of Manhattan. True there may be some time where some of there practices can be unfair. The last time I was in WDW i stayed at pop and a couple of times when there was no one waiting at one of the stops behind one that a bus was loading (example say bus a is loading for Epcot and bus b also pulls in also heading to Epcot the driver pulled in to the stop behind and let everyone that was inline board the buss).

 

[blondietink]

Another thing regarding wheelchairs on the Friendship boats: Sometimes we are allowed to take both wheelchairs on the boats and sometimes we aren't. We have been told that this depends on the water levels on the waterways the boats use. We have always been told that wheelchairs must be parked in the back of the boat where there is room and the aisles must remain clear at all times. ECV's especially weigh a lot and if the water levels are down, then they can weigh down the boat more.

 

[Sagginit]

that stinks but sometimes things change when crowds get heavy. here is another debatable scenario. my disability is a food allergy.

when i go into a quick service restaurant i need to get in line, get the employee at the front of a line to get a manager, wait for manager, look over options and then if one of the 2 or 3 options is something i am willing to eat, order and wait another 15-20 min for food. this can be a huge waste of time b/c i try to eat decently healthy and i have gotten to the front of the line to discover the only thing i could eat was mac n cheese. so i may have spent an extra 15min from other people waiting for a manager only to leave without ordering anything.

so i started approaching an employee before i got in line to get a manager. i would have to get in line to place an order anyway so i didnt think it was unfair to other diners. well i go to one place and the lines are 15-20 people deep and the employees refuse to get a manager unless i wait in line first. i explained the problem and they told me i had to wait in line like everyone else. this only happened once and the restaurant happened to be crazy busy. i think when they get busy anywhere they put getting people in and out before accomodating people with disabilities. i would contact disney, either they are not aware of the problem or have a solid reason behind loading busses that way.

 

[clanmcculloch]

that stinks but sometimes things change when crowds get heavy. here is another debatable scenario. my disability is a food allergy.

when i go into a quick service restaurant i need to get in line, get the employee at the front of a line to get a manager, wait for manager, look over options and then if one of the 2 or 3 options is something i am willing to eat, order and wait another 15-20 min for food. this can be a huge waste of time b/c i try to eat decently healthy and i have gotten to the front of the line to discover the only thing i could eat was mac n cheese. so i may have spent an extra 15min from other people waiting for a manager only to leave without ordering anything.

so i started approaching an employee before i got in line to get a manager. i would have to get in line to place an order anyway so i didnt think it was unfair to other diners. well i go to one place and the lines are 15-20 people deep and the employees refuse to get a manager unless i wait in line first. i explained the problem and they told me i had to wait in line like everyone else. this only happened once and the restaurant happened to be crazy busy. i think when they get busy anywhere they put getting people in and out before accomodating people with disabilities. i would contact disney, either they are not aware of the problem or have a solid reason behind loading busses that way.

We avoid this with pre-planning. Special Diets sends lists of what foods are available at what locations. I compile this into a handy food chart so I know before we even walk into a CS location just what options will be available to us. This way we know what we can order before we even get in line. We do still have to wait longer than anybody else because once we get to the front we then have to wait for a manager to come out before we can order plus we have to wait for our food to be made separately from the mass cooked food but we are definitely happy to wait because it means safe food. We don't wait to find out what's available because we know ahead of time. This also helps with the fact that sometimes cashiers don't know what's available and we've had to inform them that they do in fact carry things that they're not aware of. We've had this happen a few times at different locations with Tofutti ice cream (something the manager doesn't have to come out for).

 

[maroo]

Wow!
Deja vue!
This is pretty much the same thing that happened to Maroo.
I think this is a well written report to send to WDW.

Yep. Sounds about the same. Please do send to Disney, Bill. I sent mine in, too. So maybe someone will notice a pattern.

3. Can you tell me your own personal experience or opinion about the Epcot/Pop Century bus stop at Epcot? I always recall that there was no space between the Epcot/Pop bus stop at Epcot and the next bus stop for a couple of years. In other words, when the time of day was slow, and no people in the Epcot/Pop bus stop line at Epcot, I would enter the "adjacent" bus stop entrance line to which is to left side of the Pop line to get to the wheelchair/mobility scooter unmarked space. Normally if this "adjacent" bus stop was occupied, I just entered the Pop main line. And I have seen the photos of other posters, but their photos do not show what I am taling about the space between the Epcot/Pop bus stop and the adjacent bus stop. What do you remember about this? I know this line changed when they added resorts and squeezed the bus stops together. I also remember last May that they added a separate chain at the front of the Epcot/Pop line on the left side. And in my opinion at the time I saw this chain, I thought that WDW has never allowed anyone but castmembers to manipulate, open or close chains. Or am I just not remembering correctly. Which is entirely possible knowing me and not remembering things. But I really recall this since going to Epcot so often from Pop in the past.

I enjoy reading all of your posts/threads, too.

And I enjoy reading everyone's posts and photos about their experiences and opinions.

Epcot was a problem for me at park closing because they mainstreamed the lines so someone using a wheelchair gets to wait twice and are almost guaranteed to have to wait for at least one more bus, if not five.

But the POP buses were great! They did double load one time, but that really doesn't bother me at all - everyone wants to get to the parks! But for the most part, they loaded wheelchairs first and then the rest of the people and unloaded us last, like usual. So it worked well.

I never waited more than 20 min for a bus.

Here's my take on this and I want to say I have no problem with the load wheelchair and EVC first policy. I have seen times where they are double loading buses, and the way the second bus gets parked there is not enough space for them to open the rear doors or extend a ramp or lift. I realize that it must suck for those in EVC and wheelchairs to see people boarding a bus before them but keep in mind it takes less time to fill a bus with able-bodied people then it does to load then it does loading one at a time. The second bus is often out of there before the first bus even begins loading regular passengers.

This is true and I don't have a problem with double loading of buses...I just think it should not be both...

They should either double load the buses and get the wheelchairs on first as they can OR mainstream the line. But to do both of those things is unfair for someone in a wheelchair, who is guaranteed to wait longer than the people walking with them in line. That is the only problem I have with the mainstream bus loading lines.

I love rides like Toy Story where you can get in line with your friends and split off to have some ride with the person in a wheelchair and usually end up riding at about the same time. This can vary (as I have had to wait a lot longer or a lot shorter, depending on how many wheelchairs are ahead of us in line), but the system set up generally works and is set up in an attempt to be fair to everyone.

 

[mom3sonstt]

Back at the beginning of the month when I first heard about the new bus loading policy I sent an email to Disney. I sent it through their site so I don't have a copy of what I sent. This month has been crazy hectic with various things going on and us going in multiple directions and I forgot all about sending it. Yesterday I got a phone call from Disney. The person was telling me that they had received my email, and it had been forwarded to the appropriate department. Okay???? I told her I didn't remember sending an email recently. She asked "Didn't you send an email regarding boarding procedures?" Ah - yes I did - about 3 weeks ago . I had gotten no response to that email, other than the phone call yesterday, which basically said "yeah we got it" No elaboration on the policy, or assurances that they were monitoring the situation to make sure it's not a disaster....no lip service at all. Just a call saying "we got it".

I leave a week from Sunday - right now I have no plans to use the bus while we are there. I plan to use the walkways to Epcot & Studios, and to monorail over to Magic Kingdom. That said, last time those were my plans, DH decided to use the bus to come home from MK instead of going through the lines for the monorail. Plus I would still like to go to Downtown Disney and that would require a bus. I am ok with skipping Animal Kingdom this trip.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

They should either double load the buses and get the wheelchairs on first as they can OR mainstream the line. But to do both of those things is unfair for someone in a wheelchair, who is guaranteed to wait longer than the people walking with them in line. That is the only problem I have with the mainstream bus loading lines.

They can't load wheelchairs/evc on the second bus because of the way they have to position it to load through the front doors making it imposable for them to open the rear door. Now if they did what the TTC (Toronto Transit Commission), I'm using them as an example as I don't know how buses are designed in the US, but they have the ramp at the front of the bus and the driver can fold it down without having to leave his/her seat unless there is a problem and they have to manually lift it. Like I said in my first post I understand that it must be frustrating for you or anyone else in a wheelchair/ evc to see a bus fill up with out taking any wheelchairs/ evc on it, but when you have a long line of people who have been standing all day and want to get back to there resort as well and an extra bus can be used to take most of them away isn't it better for everyone.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

Back at the beginning of the month when I first heard about the new bus loading policy I sent an email to Disney.

What do you mean by new policy, they've been doing it since at least 2006, as far as I can remember.

 

[mom3sonstt]

What do you mean by new policy, they've been doing it since at least 2006, as far as I can remember.

It was my understanding, that as of Oct 1st they were going to begin mainstreaming wc/ecvs through the regular bus lines instead of having them go directly to the wc/ecv entrance. I was there in August, and every bus stop that I went to I would be off to the side somewhat - but not going through the twisty queues. I haven't been there since then, but have heard that wc/ecvs will now go through the queues at the bus stops and when they come to the front of the line, or a certain point in the line, they will "pop out" and go to the wc/ecv waiting area. I haven't seen this in practice - just heard about it - and heard the invariable "horror" stories having to wait through multiple buses before being loaded.

 

[SueM in MN]

They can't load wheelchairs/evc on the second bus because of the way they have to position it to load through the front doors making it imposable for them to open the rear door. Now if they did what the TTC (Toronto Transit Commission), I'm using them as an example as I don't know how buses are designed in the US, but they have the ramp at the front of the bus and the driver can fold it down without having to leave his/her seat unless there is a problem and they have to manually lift it. Like I said in my first post I understand that it must be frustrating for you or anyone else in a wheelchair/ evc to see a bus fill up with out taking any wheelchairs/ evc on it, but when you have a long line of people who have been standing all day and want to get back to there resort as well and an extra bus can be used to take most of them away isn't it better for everyone.

The WDW buses all have the ramps or lifts at the back door of the bus. They have none with ramps at the front. Each bus has only 2 wheelchair/ECV spots. A few have 3, but the majority have 2. The seats in those areas flip up to make the wheelchair spot.

City buses in the US may have the ramps at the front or at the rear, but most I have seen are in the front. The wheelchair/ECV spots in those buses are at the front of the bus and are kept free so they can be used by someone boarding with a wheelchair or ECV. So, when someone with an ECV or wheelchair gets to the front of the line, there will be a spot for them, unless it is already filled by another guest using a wheelchair or ECV.

If all the WDW buses were like that, it would be fair to have most guests with wheelchairs and ECVs wait in the regular line and board when they get to the front of the line.
BUT, Mainstream Lines without that are not fair. There are only 2-3 spots on each bus where a guest with a wheelchair or ECV can be on the bus, so guests using them do not have an equal chance of getting on a bus.

 

[dclfun]

We'll be at WDW for 7 nights in December. I will be contacting bus ops the minute I arrive to arrange transportation. I'm not getting in a queue line with my ventilator and service dog and forced to wait longer than everyone else and I'm not going to drive my van to the parks. We paid the same as everyone else and are entitled to the same/equal service. Bill, I'm sorry to hear about your experience. We ALL need to write to Disney. I can understand the double busses but not when there are that many w/c guests waiting. Most likely since there is no longer a separate line, the drivers don't see those guests either to radio ahead that there is a need for another bus.---Kathy

 

[mrsksomeday]

I realize that it must suck for those in EVC and wheelchairs to see people boarding a bus before them but keep in mind it takes less time to fill a bus with able-bodied people then it does to load then it does loading one at a time.

I don't care if it takes "less time to fill a bus with able-bodied people". If we go through the regular que, come to the front and are in line to be loaded, there should not be a bus loading only able bodied people. They should stagger them like Bill talked about. I do not expect my DBF to get preferential treatment, I expect fair and EQUAL access.

I realize that there are people that may not agree with how they do this but this is one thing that complaining to them won't help with. Just suck it up and wait for the next bus like the rest of the tired masses. The only thing you have in a wheelchair or EVC in that case is a seat.

I disagree, if many people stand up and complain - sending in letters and calling Disney transportation things can change. I guarantee if we have issues like Bill Sears and Maroo I will definately be calling while I am there (we will be there for 14 nights in Nov/Dec) and writing letters when we get home.

 

[bookwormde]

It sound like the new process was not well vetted (did nto go though the US Disney disabilities Department). Double stacking buses without the abiltiy to load individuals with disabilites is clearly a violation of ADA. In line loading has some advatages if it can be done safely (although with inexperianced ECV riders I an not quite sure how you ensure this). The one advatage is that non disabled passenegers can load up to the point in line where a disabeld person can not be accomidated, then the bus must stop boarding and leave. The reason for this is that WDW could choose to purchase busses with more HC accomidaitons but it is more practical (economical) to use this methodology to comply with ADA.

It is important to let the managers responsible for ADA compliance know if the system is not working so definetly call can get their email, either for WDW or at the USA park in CA, only then can they fix the issues. They value thoughtful comments and concerns.

bookwormde

 

[cantwaittoseemickey]

Bill and Maroo, I am sorry to hear about your experiences. We had a similar experience at ASMo a few years ago. We stood in the wheelchair line with at least 2 ECV's to go to Downtown Disney. It was in June and very hot outside. We waited and waited and listened to the ladies in front of us complain that it had been a while. At first the buses would already be full so they would get a few people on then leave. Then they would come and board the other line and go on their way. I believe at the 45min mark me and another lady had gone in to complain at the gs desk. They said a bus would be there shortly. So we waited and waited some more and went back in to be told they would call someone. NONE of us in the Wheelchair line was going anywhere. Just the other line. Well the third time we went in we were not nice about it at all. The lady told us there was nothing she could do. 2 hours later a bus finally picks us up. When we arrived home I sent an email to Disney and explained what had happened. A lady personally called me and I again explained what had happened. She was very nice and apologized and did comp us. She had told us that they very well could have called a bus for the ECV users and us ONLY I believe she went above and beyond what any other cm would have done.

Now we are going back and staying at the same hotel because we do like the hotel but now I am a little nervous about the mainstream lines.