NCL leaves passengers behind in Africa

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But that would not be true. Tenders, port excursions, certain activities (rock climbing, water slides, etc.) are not “the cruise” but rather optional parts of a cruise. The ship CAN accommodate wheelchairs with accessible staterooms, dining rooms, theaters, lounges, etc. Denying boarding the cruise due to inaccessibility of tenders or port excursions or a few activities would be discrimination. The cruise websites are fairly clear as to what is or is not accessible; the passenger can make an informed decision if they feel cruising is a vacation they wish to take. It’s crappy enough for someone to know they can’t participate in everything. I can’t believe someone thinks denying boarding to all wheelchairs would even be any level of acceptable.

Who are you to determine what is the cruise and what isn't a cruise? You've narrowly defined something excluding all other things like food, entertainment games, clubs, drinks, pools, slides, and more. None of that is the "cruise" either. Your fare may include xyz but doesn't say you're guaranteed buffets, pools working, shows running, etc. But of course everyone includes that when they go on a cruise.

The PP spoke about the usage of lifeboats as tenders. That is a whole 'nother thing. If a cruise ship is using lifeboats as tenders, lifeboats that are meant to carry all passengers to safety, to say they cannot accommodate passengers in wheelchairs would go against their ability to carry them on the ship..safely. If that's the case that would spell disaster in epic levels if a situation occurred.

Some cruise ships have specified tenders that are handicap accessible which may or may not always be used, that's understandable and a passenger could be in a position where that is the reason. You're correct that cruise lines have discussions about mobility and tendering. But tendering and tendering in a lifeboat are not the same. And that's what the PP spoke about. I believe cruise ships decide they would rather not deal with the "hassle" of a passenger in a wheelchair, it doesn't mean I agree that should be the case.

I’m not sure where this happened or when or the circumstances. My guess is that there may be more to the story and blanket statements like this are in very poor taste.

I didn't say I would like that to happen, but from a passenger standpoint you've paid for a cruise and then told you're arbitrarily not able to go ashore because a lifeboat is being used as a tender, in the real world how many passengers do you think would be okay with that and not demand compensation or in today's world shout it from the rooftops, as they should in this case.

From a passenger standpoint if you knew you wanted to go ashore but were barred because you were in a wheelchair and the cruise ship knew this, knew that they were not going to accommodate you because they would be using a lifeboat and they "can't accommodate" it would you be okay with that?

No I'm not advocating that a cruise company do it, but I am saying if they were just going to deny you no matter what could be better to not allow you to cruise. Of course if a passenger is notified in advance that personally they would not be allowed ashore in a wheelchair in a lifeboat used as a tender that would be in the passengers hands, but to find out when you're on the ship? That's so cruel IMO. I suspect you read my comment in a different manner to which I was speaking about. If you're talking about being denied based on being blind well that's something that is in the news so searching for it can be done. It's not a blanket statement, it has happened.

____________
In any case this has gone down a rabbit whole completely different from the thread so apologies but don't take my lack of response negatively, just moving on here

 

[insureman]

Back to the original drama about these NCL passengers...the key words...YOU WERE LATE! I don't even know why this makes the news. It happens all the time among many cruise lines...why are these people special? If this was a flight you have to catch, who calls the pilots and tell them to hold the plane for you? It's the same thing people...gates are closed, that's it. This is an extremely expensive and painful lesson for these passengers. Glad they made it back home okay though, a lot worse could have happened.

Yeah, I thought the same thing about this making the news. Either they have a well known attorney who was able to get it on the news or someone in that group knew someone at their local news and the networks picked it up. Anyway it was totally not news worthy.

 

[Mango7100]

To be honest, this is another thing I am kind of surprised the ships even allow. We personally don't feel comfortable leaving our child on the ship while we are out not on the ship.... Maybe on a Coco Cay or a Castaway Key, but that's kind of about it to me... This type of event unfurling is one of my worst nightmares. I know it is unlikely, but imagine if you misunderstood the time, or if your boat unexpectedly needs to leave port earlier and you don't know it... just absolutely terrifying.

Totally with you. It seems so crazy that a cruise ship would allow a minor to stay on while the guardian gets off. What if an emergency happens with the child and they have no way to contact the parent? Or vice versa? No way am I leaving my kid on the ship while I disembark.

 

[mjkacmom]

Who are you to determine what is the cruise and what isn't a cruise? You've narrowly defined something excluding all other things like food, entertainment games, clubs, drinks, pools, slides, and more. None of that is the "cruise" either. Your fare may include xyz but doesn't say you're guaranteed buffets, pools working, shows running, etc. But of course everyone includes that when they go on a cruise.

The PP spoke about the usage of lifeboats as tenders. That is a whole 'nother thing. If a cruise ship is using lifeboats as tenders, lifeboats that are meant to carry all passengers to safety, to say they cannot accommodate passengers in wheelchairs would go against their ability to carry them on the ship..safely. If that's the case that would spell disaster in epic levels if a situation occurred.

Some cruise ships have specified tenders that are handicap accessible which may or may not always be used, that's understandable and a passenger could be in a position where that is the reason. You're correct that cruise lines have discussions about mobility and tendering. But tendering and tendering in a lifeboat are not the same. And that's what the PP spoke about. I believe cruise ships decide they would rather not deal with the "hassle" of a passenger in a wheelchair, it doesn't mean I agree that should be the case.



I didn't say I would like that to happen, but from a passenger standpoint you've paid for a cruise and then told you're arbitrarily not able to go ashore because a lifeboat is being used as a tender, in the real world how many passengers do you think would be okay with that and not demand compensation or in today's world shout it from the rooftops, as they should in this case.

From a passenger standpoint if you knew you wanted to go ashore but were barred because you were in a wheelchair and the cruise ship knew this, knew that they were not going to accommodate you because they would be using a lifeboat and they "can't accommodate" it would you be okay with that?

No I'm not advocating that a cruise company do it, but I am saying if they were just going to deny you no matter what could be better to not allow you to cruise. Of course if a passenger is notified in advance that personally they would not be allowed ashore in a wheelchair in a lifeboat used as a tender that would be in the passengers hands, but to find out when you're on the ship? That's so cruel IMO. I suspect you read my comment in a different manner to which I was speaking about. If you're talking about being denied based on being blind well that's something that is in the news so searching for it can be done. It's not a blanket statement, it has happened.

____________
In any case this has gone down a rabbit whole completely different from the thread so apologies but don't take my lack of response negatively, just moving on here

These aren’t US ships, there are many countries that don’t have the same ADA laws that we have in the US.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

These aren’t US ships, there are many countries that don’t have the same ADA laws that we have in the US.

I know that was precisely my point, which is why I said in a prior comment to a prior poster "The world of cruising extends far out from just U.S. waters."

I didn't even bring up ADA, that was other posters. ADA is non-applicable to the vast majority of the world in cruising. But when other posters were discussing ADA in U.S. waters (which was again brought up by other posters) that I made a point to specify IF you're talking about that...etc.

I think people on this Board tend to come at it from a frame of mind like U.S. considerations, probably because this Board favors more Caribbean cruises and that's in close proximity to the U.S. often leaving from U.S. ports and then arriving back into U.S. ports.

Regardless topic has already been discussed enough

 

[lanejudy]

These aren’t US ships, there are many countries that don’t have the same ADA laws that we have in the US.

While most cruise ships are foreign-flagged and thus not subject to many US laws -- they are subject to some parts of ADA laws if they port in the US. So on/off the ship must be accessible, getting around the ship must be accessible, there must be accessible staterooms, etc. However, foreign ports of call, excursions, tenders are not subject to the ADA. Emergency evacuation plans must have a plan for assisting the disabled, but is not required to be fully accessible.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

While most cruise ships are foreign-flagged and thus not subject to many US laws -- they are subject to some parts of ADA laws if they port in the US. So on/off the ship must be accessible, getting around the ship must be accessible, there must be accessible staterooms, etc. However, foreign ports of call, excursions, tenders are not subject to the ADA. Emergency evacuation plans must have a plan for assisting the disabled, but is not required to be fully accessible.

I have disabled friends who cruise, and the excursions piece is key. Excursions are operated locally, within the port of call. Accessibility is much like car seats - possibly quite optional per local rule and custom.

I'll also argue that overall, operation of evacuation via lifeboat and standard tender operation are pretty different. It's not a stretch to believe that for an evacuation, greater measures might be taken (including assist to both disabled and injured passengers, depending on what is provoking evac). Different scenarios will follow different operating procedure.

 

[mjkacmom]

While most cruise ships are foreign-flagged and thus not subject to many US laws -- they are subject to some parts of ADA laws if they port in the US. So on/off the ship must be accessible, getting around the ship must be accessible, there must be accessible staterooms, etc. However, foreign ports of call, excursions, tenders are not subject to the ADA. Emergency evacuation plans must have a plan for assisting the disabled, but is not required to be fully accessible.

Yes, and it’s similar in high rise buildings, hotels, schools, etc., if there is a fire elevators can’t be used and an emergency plan is in place. Passengers who aren’t able to tender will not be left on the ship in case of an emergency.

 

[jdb in AZ]

Yes, and it’s similar in high rise buildings, hotels, schools, etc., if there is a fire elevators can’t be used and an emergency plan is in place. Passengers who aren’t able to tender will not be left on the ship in case of an emergency.

DMIL cruised DCL when she was disabled and couldn't handle stairs. Obviously her wheelchair couldn't handle stairs either and during the muster drill the elevators were off-limits, as they would be during an actual emergency. We showed up at the drill early (while the elevators were still operating) and were told that the crew would carry her down the stairs to the life boats. Not an easy task, and they didn't carry her as part of the drill, but we knew it would be available in an emergency.

 

[brentm77]

DMIL cruised DCL when she was disabled and couldn't handle stairs. Obviously her wheelchair couldn't handle stairs either and during the muster drill the elevators were off-limits, as they would be during an actual emergency. We showed up at the drill early (while the elevators were still operating) and were told that the crew would carry her down the stairs to the life boats. Not an easy task, and they didn't carry her as part of the drill, but we knew it would be available in an emergency.

How does that work if you don't show up early? My daughter will be in a wheelchair on the Wonder, with out muster station in Animator's Pallet. If they turned of the elevators, we literally couldn't get her there. While we will show up, I am curious how that would even work if we didn't show up early.

 

[jdb in AZ]

How does that work if you don't show up early? My daughter will be in a wheelchair on the Wonder, with out muster station in Animator's Pallet. If they turned of the elevators, we literally couldn't get her there. While we will show up, I am curious how that would even work if we didn't show up early.

I think the crew member stationed outside the elevator would rather have you show up for the drill than to skip it (and reschedule it for the no-shows and yes, they do take roll), and they'd rather turn on the elevator temporarily than have the crew carry your DD to the drill. We just found it easier to show up early than to make waves.

 

[Travel60]

Why didn’t Ncl leave their passports with port authority? That’s not normal. And then my takeaway is who goes on a cruise to Africa ? You could not pay me to go there.

I spent 19 days in Southern Africa this winter. Granted, not a cruise but land/flight/rail based - three countries, 8-9 game drives, Cape Town, Johannesburg, Victoria Falls. It was absolutely lovely and I learned SO much. It is really enlightening to see the rest of the planet we share.

 

[brentm77]

I don't know if anyone has already said this and I missed it, but NCL released a statement that said they did leave the passports with the authority. They also basically said, "we tell passengers over and over again that we will leave them - it's in our printed material and announced over the intercoms. They took that risk by not using our excursions." We all know it here. It's one of first things any person planning a cruise learns, and if they didn't know it, they will quickly after getting on the ship. The passengers knew it too, but just have a the main character syndrome too many have these days. I was glad NCL pushed back a little.

While NCL might have been in a position to wait, it seems like a bad practice. As soon as people come to expect it, being late will become even more common. I could see a few minutes if there is no extra cost to the cruise line due to penalties or delays getting to the next port, but over an hour is a ridiculous expectation.

 

[dcassetta]

I don't know if anyone has already said this and I missed it, but NCL released a statement that said they did leave the passports with the authority. They also basically said, "we tell passengers over and over again that we will leave them - it's in our printed material and announced over the intercoms. They took that risk by not using our excursions." We all know it here. It's one of firs things any person planning a cruise learns, and if they didn't know it, they will quickly after getting on the ship. The passengers knew it too, but just have a the main character syndrome too many have these days. I was glad NCL pushed back a little.

While NCL might have been in a position to wait, it seems like a bad practice. As soon as people come to expect it, being late will become even more common. I could see a few minutes if there is no extra cost to the cruise line due to penalties or delays getting to the next port, but over an hour is a ridiculous expectation.

I feel sure in thinking the captain waited as long as he could. After all, cruise ships do not want to leave passengers behind.

 

[Dug720]

Norwegian's official statement to a news agency said NCL left the passengers' passports with the local port authority for the passengers to retrieve.

This. NCL did leave the passports with the local port authority.

In terms of why they weren't allowed to board... Besides the tender-enabling operations having already been put away, they were in a part of the ocean where they had weapons from local port authorities on board due to potential piracy in those waters. They had absolutely nothing but the word of whoever was operating the boat that they weren't pirates. If I were on board, I wouldn't want them allowing a random boat to just pull up. PLUS the pilots go up a rope ladder to get on board when needed. I highly doubt that legal would allow passengers with zero training to climb a rope ladder into a small door.

 

[DCLMP]

This. NCL did leave the passports with the local port authority.

In terms of why they weren't allowed to board... Besides the tender-enabling operations having already been put away, they were in a part of the ocean where they had weapons from local port authorities on board due to potential piracy in those waters. They had absolutely nothing but the word of whoever was operating the boat that they weren't pirates. If I were on board, I wouldn't want them allowing a random boat to just pull up. PLUS the pilots go up a rope ladder to get on board when needed. I highly doubt that legal would allow passengers with zero training to climb a rope ladder into a small door.

The story I've read is that the passengers were in contact with the ship and the emergency line. The ship knew they were going to be late because the tour operator informed them. The were taken out to the ship by the port authorities. I doubt anyone thought they were pirates that's' ridiculous. They were still anchored in port. Pirates aren't hijacking ships in ports. The whole story is weird, but a lot of weird things happen on cruise ships.


My feeling is the passengers were late at no fault of their own, but the tour operators. The captain also seems like a complete asshat if he knew the situation and the ship was still anchored. I feel like the NCL just wanted to make a point about taking non shipboard excursions. They make a huge profit on excursions because they charge 40% more than booking it on your own. Hopefully the cruise line settles and they are reimbursed for their out of pocket expenses. This story won't stop me from booking my own tours.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I also read that the tour operators were in contact with the ship and that the coast guard brought them to the anchored NCL ship. It is highly unlikely that the coast guard would have brought them to the ship if they thought they would be sent away. That to me is the big deal. I mean the COAST GUARD brought them to the ship. These cruise ship companies pick up randos in the ocean but turn away paying passengers brought to the ship by the coast guard. I’ve also been on several ships, including DCL, where the captain has said over the loudspeaker things like we are waiting on a couple of late passengers. So ships do wait sometimes. I’m team passengers. I get that there are rules, and we are always back on the ship well before boarding, but let’s get real. What kind of a human being was that captain? The world has gone mad with bureaucracy at the expense of life. People have got to become critical thinkers.

 

[SteveMouse]

I also read that the tour operators were in contact with the ship and that the coast guard brought them to the anchored NCL ship. It is highly unlikely that the coast guard would have brought them to the ship if they thought they would be sent away. That to me is the big deal. I mean the COAST GUARD brought them to the ship. These cruise ship companies pick up randos in the ocean but turn away paying passengers brought to the ship by the coast guard. I’ve also been on several ships, including DCL, where the captain has said over the loudspeaker things like we are waiting on a couple of late passengers. So ships do wait sometimes. I’m team passengers. I get that there are rules, and we are always back on the ship well before boarding, but let’s get real. What kind of a human being was that captain? The world has gone mad with bureaucracy at the expense of life. People have got to become critical thinkers.

Late is late. If you don't get your application in by 5:00pm on the due date, as advertised , do you expect it to be considered? If you don't get to the restaurant by 9:00pm, the advertised closing time, do you expect to be seated?

The late passengers were not considerate of others- the passengers already aboard. the ship's crew. and the coast guard, among others.

You don't know the ship's operational statius. Had she already pulled in the floating dock used for tendering? What about the time and hazards of the crew responsible for tender operations? They can't likely be released from their duty station with the portal open. They likely have other duties besides tender operations.

The coast guard crew may not have thought much about what it might actually take to get aboard the cruise ship. Many of them likely had limited experience with cruise ships and tendering.

Climbing up a rope ladder along the hull of a ship is not easy. nor is it fof the weak or faint-hearted, even when the ship is at anchor. I've done it on many occasions. Ships pilots do it regularly with the ship underway. Unfortunately, some fall to their deaths, fairly regularly. It was unrealistic to expect the passengers to climb such a ladder. Yes. the ship could have delayed retracting the floating tender dock, or redeployed it. If that became "normal" operations, where does it stop? The cruise ship was being transparent about time.

 

[Kennywood]

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Late is late. If you don't get your application in by 5:00pm on the due date, as advertised , do you expect it to be considered? If you don't get to the restaurant by 9:00pm, the advertised closing time, do you expect to be seated?

The late passengers were not considerate of others- the passengers already aboard. the ship's crew. and the coast guard, among others.

You don't know the ship's operational statius. Had she already pulled in the floating dock used for tendering? What about the time and hazards of the crew responsible for tender operations? They can't likely be released from their duty station with the portal open. They likely have other duties besides tender operations.

The coast guard crew may not have thought much about what it might actually take to get aboard the cruise ship. Many of them likely had limited experience with cruise ships and tendering.

Climbing up a rope ladder along the hull of a ship is not easy. nor is it fof the weak or faint-hearted, even when the ship is at anchor. I've done it on many occasions. Ships pilots do it regularly with the ship underway. Unfortunately, some fall to their deaths, fairly regularly. It was unrealistic to expect the passengers to climb such a ladder. Yes. the ship could have delayed retracting the floating tender dock, or redeployed it. If that became "normal" operations, where does it stop? The cruise ship was being transparent about time.

what is this climbing up the hull malarkey? I saw photos of where they were literally stopped from walking onto the ship. And we know they were late. Thanks for the info lol. But guess what? The ship was still there. Its anchor was still down. It would have been 5-10 minute deal to get them in the boat. It’s not missing a meal at a restaurant. What a weird comparison. And yes, when people can act like compassionate human beings regardless of the “rules,” I do expect that. This is real life, not some artificial monopoly game. As I pointed out, I’ve literally been on other cruise ships where captains have announced at ports that they are waiting on late people. And on two of those occasions it was one or two people, so it wasn’t for cruise line excursions. So it does happen. There are captains who are not automations.