Oogie Boogie Bash Halloween 2023 Super Thread

Wonder if it's something more serious than just a "how do we keep the page from crashing" and instead is something like duplicate ticket numbers were going out, or they weren't being recorded on the back end, even though ticket emails were going out (and will be honored). Something that is seriously going to cause them problems, not just managing demand. Again, they COULD just beef up the bandwidth and processing to the site (especially because as someone else said, it likely is hosted via AWS or something) and open general sales without a queue. Like main ticket sales still work...
Without going into my own professional background, I have *some* familiarity with the systems and approaches they are using, and am confident that there is an architectural problem with their solution that was breaking the queuing function of the flow. Probably due to demand.

As someone else mentioned, the way this is designed to work is to segregate those purchasing tickets into two pools - a 'queue' pool that sorts folks into a virtual line, and a 'order' pool that has a limited window of time to purchase tickets. Folks at the front of the virtual line are migrated from the queue pool into the order pool at a controlled rate, such that the order flow remains stable, the ordering system can't be overwhelmed, and the user experience is better as a minimal number of tickets are held up while individuals complete purchases. In principle, this is a good idea, because it is computationally much easier to hold folks in a line than it is to try and process hundreds of thousands of competing order attempts all at once.

Because some folks were able to get through to the order pool, we know that ordering more or less functioned as expected. The problem is with the queue.

It appears that, shortly after opening sales, Disney published the message regarding paused orders. However, some folks were still able to eventually enter the order pool and purchase tickets, and as far as I can tell this persisted for most of the day. This suggests that from the onset, their solution for migrating individuals from the queue pool to the order pool was not working correctly.

I personally had multiple devices, browsers, and connections open from just before 9 AM PT to when they shut down the sale. But I wasn't able to order tickets. However, one of my party members, in comparison, was able to open the order page in one shot without any queuing at all, during their lunch break. They were successful in getting confirmed tickets with almost no effort. Knowing their experience and my own, this outcome is fundamentally at odds with the intended functionality of the system, which is to migrate people to the order flow on a first-come, first-serve basis (with those who joined before 9 AM being randomized to 'start' the line). So, we can probably be more specific and say that, there was a problem with either how the queue was being ordered, or how folks were being flowed into and out of the queue pool.

This is how companies like Oracle and IBM stay in business, they make sure things work. It's not that hard
It is very hard when you are talking about events that have levels of demand for which there are few other instances. I don't say this to defend Disney; they screwed this up. But it is important to understand that solutions that work at certain levels of scale break down at others, and you often have no way of knowing until you encounter it. It could be that logic to spin up more instances to distribute the queue failed. It could be that the logic across each instance no longer works reliably after a number of instances occur. It could be that exceptions happen when the rate of individuals entering the queue exceed a certain threshold. It is honestly all but impossible to anticipate all the contingencies, and that is why even the best and most prepared companies still fail at this, and can fail often.

From what we can observe, the odds are that demand was much more than Disney expected, to the point where the existing solution started breaking down in a way that was not recoverable. They probably tried for the entire day to find a way to get it working well enough to resume normal operations, but were ultimately not successful, hence the need to buy time and be non-committal about when orders will resume as they post-mortem and devise a solution.
 
I'm as disillusioned with the process as the next person, but my $1600 pass is just fine. I get to to go the parks as much as I want with free parking and pretty decent discounts on merch/food. It sucks that the MK sales also sucked for OBB, I got screwed that day too. But, it's not WHY I have a magic key. And it's not guaranteed that all MK holders will get tickets for OBB either. It's a perk, not a promise. We all deserved a fair shot at OBB tickets, and most people did not get that, regardless of whether they were keyholders or not. Disappointment sucks no matter how much money you give to Disney each year.

(Also, there are non-keyholders who probably give a lot more money to Disney than I do every year, because they stay on property and eat at the high end restaurants and spend a fortune on merch. I just spend a regular amount of money, because I'm not wealthy. They got screwed just as equally as I did.)
Oh I stay on property too when I visit.... we don't really get any perks for that.

You can try getting up at 5am to go stand in another line (maybe my 4th time, we'll see how the next sale goes) but those aren't guaranteed either. It's just a lot of value gets washed away for something like this when Disney really could go to greater lengths to build back some of that value (without it costing them a penny).

I'm happy at least that hotel guests get essentially guaranteed access into at least one of the parks, unless that has changed. Disney probably gets $3,000+ out of me for my week down there, JUST in tickets and hotels, before I count food sales or anything else... and I'm solo...
 
I meant we would just go during the day for trick or treating. Not to the scary part after dark.
Ooohh!!!!! I thought you meant nighttime. I recommend going then, there are some good YouTube videos about knotts spooky farm so you can see the activities they do there. It’s cute!
 
Oh I stay on property too when I visit.... we don't really get any perks for that.

You can try getting up at 5am to go stand in another line (maybe my 4th time, we'll see how the next sale goes) but those aren't guaranteed either. It's just a lot of value gets washed away for something like this when Disney really could go to greater lengths to build back some of that value (without it costing them a penny).

I'm happy at least that hotel guests get essentially guaranteed access into at least one of the parks, unless that has changed. Disney probably gets $3,000+ out of me for my week down there, JUST in tickets and hotels, before I count food sales or anything else... and I'm solo...

Okay. I think you might have missed my point (that when it comes to the hell of Disney virtual queues, we're all on the same level playing field regardless of economic status and SHOULD be), but that's cool.
 
Without going into my own professional background, I have *some* familiarity with the systems and approaches they are using, and am confident that there is an architectural problem with their solution that was breaking the queuing function of the flow. Probably due to demand.

As someone else mentioned, the way this is designed to work is to segregate those purchasing tickets into two pools - a 'queue' pool that sorts folks into a virtual line, and a 'order' pool that has a limited window of time to purchase tickets. Folks at the front of the virtual line are migrated from the queue pool into the order pool at a controlled rate, such that the order flow remains stable, the ordering system can't be overwhelmed, and the user experience is better as a minimal number of tickets are held up while individuals complete purchases. In principle, this is a good idea, because it is computationally much easier to hold folks in a line than it is to try and process hundreds of thousands of competing order attempts all at once.

Because some folks were able to get through to the order pool, we know that ordering more or less functioned as expected. The problem is with the queue.

It appears that, shortly after opening sales, Disney published the message regarding paused orders. However, some folks were still able to eventually enter the order pool and purchase tickets, and as far as I can tell this persisted for most of the day. This suggests that from the onset, their solution for migrating individuals from the queue pool to the order pool was not working correctly.

I personally had multiple devices, browsers, and connections open from just before 9 AM PT to when they shut down the sale. But I wasn't able to order tickets. However, one of my party members, in comparison, was able to open the order page in one shot without any queuing at all, during their lunch break. They were successful in getting confirmed tickets with almost no effort. Knowing their experience and my own, this outcome is fundamentally at odds with the intended functionality of the system, which is to migrate people to the order flow on a first-come, first-serve basis (with those who joined before 9 AM being randomized to 'start' the line). So, we can probably be more specific and say that, there was a problem with either how the queue was being ordered, or how folks were being flowed into and out of the queue pool.


It is very hard when you are talking about events that have levels of demand for which there are few other instances. I don't say this to defend Disney; they screwed this up. But it is important to understand that solutions that work at certain levels of scale break down at others, and you often have no way of knowing until you encounter it. It could be that logic to spin up more instances to distribute the queue failed. It could be that the logic across each instance no longer works reliably after a number of instances occur. It could be that exceptions happen when the rate of individuals entering the queue exceed a certain threshold. It is honestly all but impossible to anticipate all the contingencies, and that is why even the best and most prepared companies still fail at this, and can fail often.

From what we can observe, the odds are that demand was much more than Disney expected, to the point where the existing solution started breaking down in a way that was not recoverable. They probably tried for the entire day to find a way to get it working well enough to resume normal operations, but were ultimately not successful, hence the need to buy time and be non-committal about when orders will resume as they post-mortem and devise a solution.
computer issues with Disney is not an exception, it is the rule. They deal with this type of thing everday, dining, dvc all have timed rushes. They clearly do not know what they are doing. We have the cloud, computing access is unlimited. They need new management. Someone who knows what they are doing and is just not in the job because they worked there for 47 years
 
It is very hard when you are talking about events that have levels of demand for which there are few other instances. I don't say this to defend Disney; they screwed this up. But it is important to understand that solutions that work at certain levels of scale break down at others, and you often have no way of knowing until you encounter it. It could be that logic to spin up more instances to distribute the queue failed. It could be that the logic across each instance no longer works reliably after a number of instances occur. It could be that exceptions happen when the rate of individuals entering the queue exceed a certain threshold. It is honestly all but impossible to anticipate all the contingencies, and that is why even the best and most prepared companies still fail at this, and can fail often.

From what we can observe, the odds are that demand was much more than Disney expected, to the point where the existing solution started breaking down in a way that was not recoverable. They probably tried for the entire day to find a way to get it working well enough to resume normal operations, but were ultimately not successful, hence the need to buy time and be non-committal about when orders will resume as they post-mortem and devise a solution.

These kinds of comments always confuse me... I get that if it's the first year, or a small company or something... but wouldn't they look back at last years? Design the system for 2x the demand, maybe 5x the demand...

Now maybe this year is 2x the demand of previous years, maybe 3 or 4x the demand since I doubt last time it was "JUST BARELY" able to handle it... but if that's the case, then these things are going to sell out in like the first four hours... I would think then you add dates to soak up more profit...

Demand might actually be up this year, I noticed both Universal and Knott's added Wednesday nights when I'm almost positive prior years it was only Thur-Sun expect for like the week or two before Halloween.
 
Without going into my own professional background, I have *some* familiarity with the systems and approaches they are using, and am confident that there is an architectural problem with their solution that was breaking the queuing function of the flow. Probably due to demand.

As someone else mentioned, the way this is designed to work is to segregate those purchasing tickets into two pools - a 'queue' pool that sorts folks into a virtual line, and a 'order' pool that has a limited window of time to purchase tickets. Folks at the front of the virtual line are migrated from the queue pool into the order pool at a controlled rate, such that the order flow remains stable, the ordering system can't be overwhelmed, and the user experience is better as a minimal number of tickets are held up while individuals complete purchases. In principle, this is a good idea, because it is computationally much easier to hold folks in a line than it is to try and process hundreds of thousands of competing order attempts all at once.

Because some folks were able to get through to the order pool, we know that ordering more or less functioned as expected. The problem is with the queue.

It appears that, shortly after opening sales, Disney published the message regarding paused orders. However, some folks were still able to eventually enter the order pool and purchase tickets, and as far as I can tell this persisted for most of the day. This suggests that from the onset, their solution for migrating individuals from the queue pool to the order pool was not working correctly.

I personally had multiple devices, browsers, and connections open from just before 9 AM PT to when they shut down the sale. But I wasn't able to order tickets. However, one of my party members, in comparison, was able to open the order page in one shot without any queuing at all, during their lunch break. They were successful in getting confirmed tickets with almost no effort. Knowing their experience and my own, this outcome is fundamentally at odds with the intended functionality of the system, which is to migrate people to the order flow on a first-come, first-serve basis (with those who joined before 9 AM being randomized to 'start' the line). So, we can probably be more specific and say that, there was a problem with either how the queue was being ordered, or how folks were being flowed into and out of the queue pool.


It is very hard when you are talking about events that have levels of demand for which there are few other instances. I don't say this to defend Disney; they screwed this up. But it is important to understand that solutions that work at certain levels of scale break down at others, and you often have no way of knowing until you encounter it. It could be that logic to spin up more instances to distribute the queue failed. It could be that the logic across each instance no longer works reliably after a number of instances occur. It could be that exceptions happen when the rate of individuals entering the queue exceed a certain threshold. It is honestly all but impossible to anticipate all the contingencies, and that is why even the best and most prepared companies still fail at this, and can fail often.

From what we can observe, the odds are that demand was much more than Disney expected, to the point where the existing solution started breaking down in a way that was not recoverable. They probably tried for the entire day to find a way to get it working well enough to resume normal operations, but were ultimately not successful, hence the need to buy time and be non-committal about when orders will resume as they post-mortem and devise a solution.
Busness 101. You cannot treat loyal customers with disdain and not suffer consequences.
 
The pain of trying to buy OBB tickets really takes all the joy out of the party. Seriously wondering if I’ll bother trying again when sales eventually resume.

I’ve been before, and I think I like WDW’s MNSSHP better anyway. At the very least, you can just log on and give Disney your money for those tickets without a full day of stress. It’s really mind boggling how this all went down today.
 
Okay. I think you might have missed my point (that when it comes to the hell of Disney virtual queues, we're all on the same level playing field regardless of economic status and SHOULD be), but that's cool.
Things like this hugely water down the other WILDLY expensive perks. $600 to $700/night for a hotel room that is nothing special? It would go a LONG LONG way to making that feel less painful if hotel stays had guaranteed access. Maybe you make it a non-refundable rate that has to be booked in advance or something.

The AP has a large amount of benefit to it already when you just look at access... but no free parking at a Disneyland resort but you would get free parking to visit the parks? That's just stupid. Presale events that run pretty dang poorly... either you're selling too many passes to where that perk isn't really anything special any more (so no value), or you didn't set aside nearly enough tickets. For example, $400 magic key was able to buy at the same time as a $1600 magic key, maybe that should be different, at least to help draw the line between value.

The main one is, just add more dates. Universal won't sell out until the night of or just a couple days before the date. Maybe Disney should run this every night in October or something.

Somehow Knott's and Universal both can manage the staffing for much larger events, yet I would imagine are working with less budget (or potential budget) than Disney.
 
Busness 101. You cannot treat loyal customers with disdain and not suffer consequences.
And that's where I'm trying to get with my value. Not "hey, I have more money than you, I should be there not you" but more... really... how much is the hotel... how much is a pass (or day tickets)... how hard is it to get special event tickets...

If they want loyal customers that will drop big money in the parks (which I would argue that other than merch sales are likely out of town people who fill the resort and eat the food in the parks) rather than locals that might just show up for a few hours and eat a snack or skip eating in the park.... you've got to build that value into it and the name "Disney" and actual park... well... they're really testing their limits on banking on just that.
 
I would be surprised if anything sold out today. Such a small number of people were able to buy tickets.
Agree with this. I was able to get through around 11:37 PT (per my screen shots), and I didn't see many other people posting on here about getting through the random lottery of clicking over and over much longer after that time. I think very, very few tickets were sold today.
 
And how someone like Apple sells MILLIONS of devices in the first day or two when they have a new release.

I would LOVE to know how many tickets Disney actually sells for the party... but I would be surprised if it was even a million.
I'd be surprised if its even 100k much less millions.

Max Capacity for both parks is 125k, Disneyland is 85k, so DCA max cap is 40k on a regular day, so i can't imagine they sell more than 10k per OOB.?
 
You know, of the three Disney parks special event ticket sales that started this morning, I expected the Jollywood Nights at DHS to be the one that would go belly up, not this one. Especially after the debacle with the Magic Key presales.

Alas.

I'm one of the lucky(?) ones that managed to get in through the app and actually checkout. However, that was at 10AM this morning, and I still haven't gotten the confirmation email.

I was psyched to be the one in my group that got through so that I could put tickets on my credit card and get those rewards dollars 😂 Fingers crossed that the email comes through, I guess!
 

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