Opinions on "line cutting"?

[Lumpy1106]

I can see your point of view on this but I don't agree.

One is a system in place that anyone can participate in (as long as they are willing to pay the cost) and the other is breaking the rules that are set in place. It would be like saying you are equally annoyed with someone paying to get an earlier boarding group on a Southwest flight and someone lying their way into an earlier boarding group.

Ask yourself just how much are you inconvenienced by the line-cutter. OK, now multiply that by all the people in the G+/ILL line - how much you are inconvenienced by G+/ILL? Since you are OK with that, maybe don't let the line-cutter bug you so much?

I dunno, just throwing it out there. I'm still pretty annoyed by both.

 

[Aladora]

Ask yourself just how much are you inconvenienced by the line-cutter. OK, now multiply that by all the people in the G+/ILL line - how much you are inconvenienced by G+/ILL? Since you are OK with that, maybe don't let the line-cutter bug you so much?

I dunno, just throwing it out there. I'm still pretty annoyed by both.

This is not an apples to apples comparison. I am allowed to buy G+ and use the service, everyone at DL is allowed to avail themselves of this service if they choose to buy it. No one is allowed to cut in line.

Were you annoyed by people in the FP lane when it was still free? When free FPs were a thing they were allowed to be there. People in the G+/ILL lane are also allowed to be there as long as they paid the cost. People are not allowed to cut in lines.

 

[Steven G]

I'll be honest, it is aggravating in the moment (if I let it get to me), seeing the CM's pass through 30 or 40 LL guests, and then allow less than 10 of standby guests (sometimes as low as 5 or less) to go before switching back to LL guests.

However, as stated above, it's a legitimate and approved way. If you don't like it, don't go to Disney Parks (or honestly, any park that implements some sort of skip the line pass). A good solution is Knotts Berry Farm, they don't always offer the pass, so you can go on those days and experience no one (other than nonapproved line skippers) getting ahead of you.

Also, remember, at least at Disney, the people with the LL in many cases have to wait hours to get on the lightning lane. So it's not like they aren't waiting in some way.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

Yes, line cutting is annoying and actually against the rules. G+/LL/ILL folks are not even remotely line cutting - it's a paid option that everyone has access to, if planned properly. It still might annoy some folks who refuse to buy it, but it is a conscious decision to not buy it and wait longer.

In today's world, there are so many examples of people optionally paying a little extra to do something more quickly than those who don't pay. G+/LL/ILL is just another example.

 

[Lumpy1106]

This is not an apples to apples comparison. I am allowed to buy G+ and use the service, everyone at DL is allowed to avail themselves of this service if they choose to buy it. No one is allowed to cut in line.

Were you annoyed by people in the FP lane when it was still free? When free FPs were a thing they were allowed to be there. People in the G+/ILL lane are also allowed to be there as long as they paid the cost. People are not allowed to cut in lines.

Sorry, I'm afraid it is. If one person goes in front of you, you are delayed one space in line. If 100 people go ahead of you, you are delayed 100 times more in the same line. It does not matter how they got in front of you,. That is the impact ON YOU. Nothing more, nothing less. It's as "apples to apples" as it gets.

It's so weird to me how the same people that rush to villainize the people who are cutting in line are the same people who rush to defend G+ and ILL

 

[Aladora]

Sorry, I'm afraid it is. If one person goes in front of you, you are delayed one space in line. If 100 people go ahead of you, you are delayed 100 times more in the same line. It does not matter how they got in front of you,. That is the impact ON YOU. Nothing more, nothing less. It's as "apples to apples" as it gets.

It's so weird to me how the same people that rush to villainize the people who are cutting in line are the same people who rush to defend G+ and ILL

So, my question from post #42 still stands:

Were you this annoyed with people using the Fast Pass lanes when it was free for everyone?

 

[thanxfornoticin]

Sorry, I'm afraid it is. If one person goes in front of you, you are delayed one space in line. If 100 people go ahead of you, you are delayed 100 times more in the same line. It does not matter how they got in front of you,. That is the impact ON YOU. Nothing more, nothing less. It's as "apples to apples" as it gets.

It's so weird to me how the same people that rush to villainize the people who are cutting in line are the same people who rush to defend G+ and ILL

It's obvious from all your posts our here that in your mind, G+/LL/ILL is line cutting. No one is going to change your mind on that. But you also have to understand why so many people disagree with your point and see the 2 are not comparable. G+/LL/ILL is a paid option that gets folks on some attractions faster than those who opt to not purchase it (or those who aren't eligible at that particular time). Just like TSA-Pre Check is a paid service that get some people through TSA security, or paid express lanes on interstates allow people to bypass traffic issues in some cities, or buying Early Bird on SW flights get you on the plane to pick a seat sooner. It is what it is, and you can choose to just do Disney in the standby line - many do. But you seem to be in the minority regarding it being 'line cutting'. It's not the same.....

 

[soniam]

Sorry, I'm afraid it is. If one person goes in front of you, you are delayed one space in line. If 100 people go ahead of you, you are delayed 100 times more in the same line. It does not matter how they got in front of you,. That is the impact ON YOU. Nothing more, nothing less. It's as "apples to apples" as it gets.

It's so weird to me how the same people that rush to villainize the people who are cutting in line are the same people who rush to defend G+ and ILL

For me, it's not so much that they may delay me, which is still an annoyance. It's the fact that they are inconsiderate enough to view their time as more important than mine. I bet you really hate toll lanes.

 

[Lisa24jks]

Y'all are not going to convince Lumpy that Genie+ is anything but "line cutting". I have tried and failed. But good luck to you if you try!

Most other people will agree that there is a distinct difference between using Genie/ILL as the park intends you to and straight-up breaking-the-rules and jumping in front of everybody without using any kind of service. You don't have to like either way, but there is absolutely a difference. Someone else compared it to TSA pre-check, which is essentially a paid line-cutting service. (And as a traveler, I am grateful.) You either do it or you don't, but you also don't get to push past everyone in line just because you want to.

Heck, even in the "unpaid" categories, there are ways to make waits shorter and lines more convenient at all sorts of businesses. (Doing grocery pick-ups instead of shopping the traditional way. Making reservations at restaurant. Getting on an online waitlist before you even leave your house. Making appointments of any kind.) You either do those things or you choose a less convenient way. But, what you shouldn't get to do is just storm past everyone who did follow the rules because you want to be ahead of them.

 

[soniam]

Y'all are not going to convince Lumpy that Genie+ is anything but "line cutting". I have tried and failed. But good luck to you if you try!

Most other people will agree that there is a distinct difference between using Genie/ILL as the park intends you to and straight-up breaking-the-rules and jumping in front of everybody without using any kind of service. You don't have to like either way, but there is absolutely a difference. Someone else compared it to TSA pre-check, which is essentially a paid line-cutting service. (And as a traveler, I am grateful.) You either do it or you don't, but you also don't get to push past everyone in line just because you want to.

Heck, even in the "unpaid" categories, there are ways to make waits shorter and lines more convenient at all sorts of businesses. (Doing grocery pick-ups instead of shopping the traditional way. Making reservations at restaurant. Getting on an online waitlist before you even leave your house. Making appointments of any kind.) You either do those things or you choose a less convenient way. But, what you shouldn't get to do is just storm past everyone who did follow the rules because you want to be ahead of them.

An image from kindergarten went into my head where these 2 kids wanted to be last in line, so they kept pushing the other kid forward until the teacher went ballistic. I can totally see a free for all where everyone wants to be further up in line and a shoving match starts. Sounds like something out of Monty Python.

EDIT: Because face it, we all want to be at the front of the line, but some of us have manners and discipline.

 

[Lumpy1106]

It's obvious from all your posts our here that in your mind, G+/LL/ILL is line cutting. No one is going to change your mind on that. But you also have to understand why so many people disagree with your point and see the 2 are not comparable. G+/LL/ILL is a paid option that gets folks on some attractions faster than those who opt to not purchase it (or those who aren't eligible at that particular time). Just like TSA-Pre Check is a paid service that get some people through TSA security, or paid express lanes on interstates allow people to bypass traffic issues in some cities, or buying Early Bird on SW flights get you on the plane to pick a seat sooner. It is what it is, and you can choose to just do Disney in the standby line - many do. But you seem to be in the minority regarding it being 'line cutting'. It's not the same.....

TSA, toll roads, how I might feel about any of this - it's all irrelevant. If 1 person cuts in front of YOU, YOU are delayed 1 space. If 100 people cut in front of YOU, YOU are delayed 100 spaces. Is anyone debating this fact? Nope. Either have a problem with it or don't, that's up to YOU.

Riddle me this; Let's say the day before G+ went live, some guy, or maybe a group of people cut the line. When confronted, they respond, "I paid the guy in the Mickey costume $20, he said it's OK" - the mob in line would still have wanted him removed from the park, right?

 

[kikismom]

So here is my take on this. I have had people be incredibly rude when I'm rejoining my family or friends in line, we all have entered lines together and then my daughter has to go to the bathroom of course, or once a ride broke down and I had a question.

The ride breaking down situation was RSR, we went through and the ride broke down, we decided to stick it out and after about 20 minutes I went out to ask about our LL that we'd used to get in, I wanted to know if we got out of line if we lost it or if we would be able to come back. When we went back to my family and friends I had people physically block me when I said excuse me, I had people being so rude about it. I get it, I don't like line cutting either but I'm definitely not going to let it ruin my day or be rude to anyone about it. I was shaky when I got back up to my people, I also am not a fan of confrontation and that's my issue. The dumb part is some of them were the same people I had to go by to get out. Who in earth has that bad of a memory??

So anyway, my take on it is I don't like line cutting but I'm not going to be confrontational or rude to anyone else about it. If I get on two cars later oh well. I go to DL to escape my normal life and I'm sure the line cutters will have bad enough karma in the end.

 

[Tinkaboo]

Y'all are not going to convince Lumpy that Genie+ is anything but "line cutting". I have tried and failed. But good luck to you if you try!

Most other people will agree that there is a distinct difference between using Genie/ILL as the park intends you to and straight-up breaking-the-rules and jumping in front of everybody without using any kind of service. You don't have to like either way, but there is absolutely a difference. Someone else compared it to TSA pre-check, which is essentially a paid line-cutting service. (And as a traveler, I am grateful.) You either do it or you don't, but you also don't get to push past everyone in line just because you want to.

Heck, even in the "unpaid" categories, there are ways to make waits shorter and lines more convenient at all sorts of businesses. (Doing grocery pick-ups instead of shopping the traditional way. Making reservations at restaurant. Getting on an online waitlist before you even leave your house. Making appointments of any kind.) You either do those things or you choose a less convenient way. But, what you shouldn't get to do is just storm past everyone who did follow the rules because you want to be ahead of them.

Good job, @Lisa24jks ! You explained it perfectly!

 

[TheDailyMoo]

What you speak of in this thread is a microcosm of society. It's the "I'm the center of the universe and no one else's life or time is worth mine" attitude that's more pervasive than ever. In the past I'm very sure people still had feelings like this but they were much more willing to follow societal norms and etiquettes. As for the CMs saying anything I don't fault them. Who wants to lose their job because they get videoed out of context "being mean and rude" to someone who has the ability to make said video go viral. Heck how many times I'm at any retail store and I see people blatantly walk out with unpaid merchandise and nobody says boo. People don't even run out the store when stealing anymore they stroll! Brazen. We've all gotten very brazen and no empathy whatsoever. Of course it's not everyone but all it takes is for a decent percentage of society to act like this for us to start noticing it.

That said if anyone wants to go to the bathroom and rejoin their family or friends that's more than fine. It's the blatant line cutters that couldn't give a rat's you know what about anyone else that really get me all fired up. Being in the heat of the summer really makes it even more egregious!

 

[Lisa24jks]

Heck how many times I'm at any retail store and I see people blatantly walk out with unpaid merchandise and nobody says boo.

In defense of retail employees (as a former one), most of them are instructed by management not to do anything. Too often trying to stop someone has resulted in the thief attacking the employee, and now not only did the business lose merchandise, their worker's comp plan has to pay all the medical bills of the employee and it's a whole mess of red tape and paperwork. It's much easier to just let it go, especially for petty shoplifting. (okay, technically, they can say that's a rule to protect the safety of the employees, but i'm a cynic and I know better...)

For larger stores with more expensive items, they want those employees to leave it to security and loss prevention to handle it for the same reasons. But at least larger stores have cameras and such.

I'm sure Disney CMs also have guidelines for when and how to confront guests or when to call security in. If they don't do anything, it's likely they've been told not to intervene for smaller issues like that.

 

[Chili327]

With the rise of inconsiderate people in the word today, its lucky there isn't just plain anarchy in the lines. I tried to scare some kids into thinking the camera's are watching and will kick you out if they catch you.

Maybe we just add VQ to everything and if you didn't get yours at the same time your party did, you don't get to ride at that time.

 

[Chili327]

What you speak of in this thread is a microcosm of society. It's the "I'm the center of the universe and no one else's life or time is worth mine" attitude that's more pervasive than ever. In the past I'm very sure people still had feelings like this but they were much more willing to follow societal norms and etiquettes. As for the CMs saying anything I don't fault them. Who wants to lose their job because they get videoed out of context "being mean and rude" to someone who has the ability to make said video go viral. Heck how many times I'm at any retail store and I see people blatantly walk out with unpaid merchandise and nobody says boo. People don't even run out the store when stealing anymore they stroll! Brazen. We've all gotten very brazen and no empathy whatsoever. Of course it's not everyone but all it takes is for a decent percentage of society to act like this for us to start noticing it.

That said if anyone wants to go to the bathroom and rejoin their family or friends that's more than fine. It's the blatant line cutters that couldn't give a rat's you know what about anyone else that really get me all fired up. Being in the heat of the summer really makes it even more egregious!

It's "I'm the main character" syndrome. lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/ImTheMainCharacter

 

[Smugpugmug]

In defense of retail employees (as a former one), most of them are instructed by management not to do anything. Too often trying to stop someone has resulted in the thief attacking the employee, and now not only did the business lose merchandise, their worker's comp plan has to pay all the medical bills of the employee and it's a whole mess of red tape and paperwork. It's much easier to just let it go, especially for petty shoplifting. (okay, technically, they can say that's a rule to protect the safety of the employees, but i'm a cynic and I know better...)

For larger stores with more expensive items, they want those employees to leave it to security and loss prevention to handle it for the same reasons. But at least larger stores have cameras and such.

I'm sure Disney CMs also have guidelines for when and how to confront guests or when to call security in. If they don't do anything, it's likely they've been told not to intervene for smaller issues like that.

Can confirm. When I used to work in retail, you could actually get fired if you intervened in anyone shoplifting. It was easier for the store to just write off anything stolen as a loss. Plus if I'm being 100% honest for a second, I wasn't going to risk my life for a $3 carton of eggs. You didn't know if someone had a weapon or not.

Sorry, I know that's off topic. Back to the thread's regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Lumpy1106]

So, my question from post #42 still stands:

Were you this annoyed with people using the Fast Pass lanes when it was free for everyone?

FP+ was a weird gray area for me. Yes, it's line cutting, but everybody got it so the playing field was still level. Yes, you had to stand in longer standby lines but you for sure got to cut a few lines without paying more to do so.

Time is money in WDW/DL. You could argue all was fair if you were paying the people in the standby line to cut in front of them in the G+ - but you are not, you are paying Disney instead. Do you want to argue that the ticket price has gone down for the people in the standby line because people are buying G+? Oh please - don't even try.

 

[tx911]

FP+ was a weird gray area for me. Yes, it's line cutting, but everybody got it so the playing field was still level. Yes, you had to stand in longer standby lines but you for sure got to cut a few lines without paying more to do so.

Time is money in WDW/DL. You could argue all was fair if you were paying the people in the standby line to cut in front of them in the G+ - but you are not, you are paying Disney instead. Do you want to argue that the ticket price has gone down for the people in the standby line because people are buying G+? Oh please - don't even try.

It's pretty simple to me.

Line cutting is against the rules, Genie+ is not. Whether you agree with it or the impact is the same for the person in the standby line are irrelevant.

Genie+ is strictly controlled and limited by Disney so that the impact is limited. Fortunately, line cutting is also limited by the fact that the vast majority of us follow the rules. Either practice run rampant would be a **** show.