Paid FP options coming soon to WDW?

[Eric Smith]

What perks do you see coming back or being added?

EMH is gone (yes, they will have 30 min early, but we are nighttime people), DME is leaving, FP is a question mark, but even if it does come back, it will be revamped and most likely add a paid component.

Those are big time benefits that were "included" in the pricing structure. How many families do you think ranked DME as a major factor in buying into DVC? Gone, just like that. Now all those lifetime trips just had an additional expense and hassle added to each trip.

However, your point about resort availability is valid. People are still going.

Fastpass (in some form) will come back. The EMH replacement is a perk whether you use it or not. On property transportation to and from the parks and Disney Springs is a perk that is still being offered.

In the end, the only thing that won't be coming back is DME. I expect that they'll release some kind of new perk if resort occupancy isn't at the levels that they expect.

Anyone that had DME as a major reason for buying DVC made a massive mistake. All DVC allows you to do is to book a hotel room. All of the other perks can be taken away at any point.

 

[Jake]

I could see Disney scalding it back a lot to save money. Maybe only on popular rides. I still don’t know if it really helps. You get on three rides fast then you have long lines the rest of the day and night.
i you don’t plan 60 days out you can not get good FP

 

[MickeyWaffles]

How many families do you think ranked DME as a major factor in buying into DVC?

Hopefully none. Those kinds of perks are not included in any DVC contract.

Part of annual dues (which fluctuate) went toward DME. Members dues will be adjusted to not account for DME anymore. It’s audited. When it’s gone, we just won’t be paying for it anymore.

DME has never been a selling point for DVC members. And any DVC member who actually read their contract knows what it covers (and if they didn’t read it, yikes.)

Also, anyone who has been a DVC member for any length of time knows that perks come and go and that what you are purchasing is access to villa accommodations. Extra perks always come and go. Heck, if you joined DVC at the right time back in the 90s, you used to get free length of stay park passes with your DVC stays! DVC is about accommodations, not any sort of extra perk.

 

[Eric Smith]

I could see Disney scalding it back a lot to save money. Maybe only on popular rides. I still don’t know if it really helps. You get on three rides fast then you have long lines the rest of the day and night.
i you don’t plan 60 days out you can not get good FP

I think they need to cut back how many fast passes that they give out. They give far too many out right now and it makes the standby lines unbearable.

 

[chasgeese]

If the prices for deluxe resorts were $250, people would fill them. Attendance is lower during covid in general, but Disney has such an inflated price point that they could easily capture most of the market with true pandemic pricing.

But the reality is that Disney isn’t trying to fill their hotels rn. Also they know in the long run it’s still better to maintain higher prices for those willing to pay than the alternative. They’d rather take the hit now, when they are coming close to breaking even on parks, than establish expectations that Deluxe prices would ever be that low.

Part of the business model for WDW is wildly overcharging for their hotels (even if we were factoring in pre-covid perks) vs what they actually provide from values to deluxes. They aren’t going to give up on their ability to do that when the parks are close to profitable and other arms of the Disney business like Disney+ are booming and covering the losses on the parks.

 

[Eric Smith]

But the reality is that Disney isn’t trying to fill their hotels rn. Also they know in the long run it’s still better to maintain higher prices for those willing to pay than the alternative. They’d rather take the hit now, when they are coming close to breaking even on parks, than establish expectations that Deluxe prices would ever be that low.

Part of the business model for WDW is wildly overcharging for their hotels (even if we were factoring in pre-covid perks) vs what they actually provide from values to deluxes. They aren’t going to give up on their ability to do that when the parks are close to profitable and other arms of the Disney business like Disney+ are booming and covering the losses on the parks.

If they fill the hotels, are they really overcharging?

 

[LSUmiss]

I think they need to cut back how many fast passes that they give out. They give far too many out right now and it makes the standby lines unbearable.

It was also starting to jam up the fast pass lines. A pp mentioned using fp with little kids b/c they can’t wait in 40 min lines. For our trip in July 2019, fp lines were averaging 20-30 min & it was impossible to ride even the kiddie rides & wait like that with a 1 ye old.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

If they fill the hotels, are they really overcharging?

He means overcharging for just the hotel. People are paying for all the extras when they pay those inflated hotel rates. Extras that are now gone. I"m sure people will still pay a premium for the hotels on the monorail, or in walking distance to some of the parks. But for the bus only transportation hotels? Seems unlikely to me and the data seems to bear that out (other then at peak times).

 

[Jmljasmine]

He means overcharging for just the hotel. People are paying for all the extras when they pay those inflated hotel rates. Extras that are now gone. I"m sure people will still pay a premium for the hotels on the monorail, or in walking distance to some of the parks. But for the bus only transportation hotels? Seems unlikely to me and the data seems to bear that out (other then at peak times).

Agree. I've felt the bus service was getting bad for a while now. There is absolutely no reason to spend the money unless it's close enough to walk

 

[Eric Smith]

He means overcharging for just the hotel. People are paying for all the extras when they pay those inflated hotel rates. Extras that are now gone. I"m sure people will still pay a premium for the hotels on the monorail, or in walking distance to some of the parks. But for the bus only transportation hotels? Seems unlikely to me and the data seems to bear that out (other then at peak times).

I mean, if people still pay the prices, then Disney isn't overcharging for anything. That's just basic economics.

 

[The Jackal]

I mean, if people still pay the prices, then Disney isn't overcharging for anything. That's just basic economics.

We will wait and see what happens if FP doesn’t come back and no DME. People can rent a house for way less than Disney charges for a moderate and almost a value. Uber to the parks and save money. Then Disney will have a Uber problem to deal with and Disney will have empty hotels. There is lots of places, hotels and houses to compete with Disney, the perks make it worth it. Take them away and we will see. It seems the new management forgets why the perks existed in the first place.

 

[Eric Smith]

We will wait and see what happens if FP doesn’t come back and no DME. People can rent a house for way less than Disney charges for a moderate and almost a value. Uber to the parks and save money. Then Disney will have a Uber problem to deal with and Disney will have empty hotels. There is lots of places, hotels and houses to compete with Disney, the perks make it worth it. Take them away and we will see. It seems the new management forgets why the perks existed in the first place.

That's been the case for at least the last five years. I don't think people are paying that cost difference for Fast Passes and a bus ride from the airport.

 

[MickeyWaffles]

We will wait and see what happens if FP doesn’t come back and no DME. People can rent a house for way less than Disney charges for a moderate and almost a value. Uber to the parks and save money. Then Disney will have a Uber problem to deal with and Disney will have empty hotels. There is lots of places, hotels and houses to compete with Disney, the perks make it worth it. Take them away and we will see. It seems the new management forgets why the perks existed in the first place.

If Disney somehow has empty resorts (which I do NOT think will be the case), they will figure out ways to drive people back. Deals, limited time perks, etc. They’ll be just fine.

I think many really underestimate how many people stay at Disney resorts simply because they want to. Whether it’s being a part of the bubble, the theming, the service, the ambience, proximity to parks ... so many reasons.

I lived down there for my 2 CPs and renting a house in suburban Orlando is not in any way desirable at all for us. We like all Disney all the time. We do not enjoy any other attractions or areas in Orlando and have no desire to drive back out under the sign once we are in. The Orlando area itself is not an attractive travel destination for us. Disney is.

Disney resorts are a huge part of the WDW experience for us and many - look at how many people purchase DVC. We bought DVC because we love Disney resorts. No extra perks considered whatsoever. We like traveling to the resorts that aren’t connected to any theme parks - HHI, Vero Beach, Aulani - places that have never seen theme park “perks.”

Tons of people do Disney “resort only” stays, too.

Anyway, I think the resorts will be just fine and if there’s a dip, Disney will just offer something to fix it and it’ll bounce back easily

 

[chasgeese]

If they fill the hotels, are they really overcharging?

That is a fair point, and I do pay to stay on-site, but it does seem a little crazy to me that they can charge over $300 for a motel room at the moderates and can charge Four Seasons/Ritz Carlton prices for the Deluxes, which are nice enough but no nicer than an average Hilton or Marriott.

He means overcharging for just the hotel. People are paying for all the extras when they pay those inflated hotel rates. Extras that are now gone. I"m sure people will still pay a premium for the hotels on the monorail, or in walking distance to some of the parks. But for the bus only transportation hotels? Seems unlikely to me and the data seems to bear that out (other then at peak times).

Eh not really, they were always overcharging for the resorts, even before COVID when all the perks were still there, at least from a purely financial perspective for what they offer and what you actually get. On the other hand, most of the people willing to pay aren’t going to change their minds based on the removal of DME and some other minor perks. I mean I can’t imagine many people paying $600+ per night at the GF are suddenly going to stay somewhere else because these perks were taken away.

 

[bffer]

That is a fair point, and I do pay to stay on-site, but it does seem a little crazy to me that they can charge over $300 for a motel room at the moderates and can charge Four Seasons/Ritz Carlton prices for the Deluxes, which are nice enough but no nicer than an average Hilton or Marriott.


Eh not really, they were always overcharging for the resorts, even before COVID when all the perks were still there, at least from a purely financial perspective for what they offer and what you actually get. On the other hand, most of the people willing to pay aren’t going to change their minds based on the removal of DME and some other minor perks. I mean I can’t imagine many people paying $600+ per night at the GF are suddenly going to stay somewhere else because these perks were taken away.

I think the trouble lies mostly in the Value resorts. Deluxe guests...and even Moderate guests... are going to continue to pay whatever to stay on property. And the Deluxe resorts are so close to the parks, that you really are paying for that convenience. Those who stay in Value resorts stay there to save money, but still be in the bubble and get the extra perks. And it's not always because they aren't wealthy. Some people would just rather spend their money in the parks instead. I know that's the way we are. The resort is just the place where we sleep and maybe have a nighttime swim.

Without the added benefit of free airport transfers, fast passes, baggage service, etc., are the Values really worth it? I could stay off property at a nicer hotel, rent a car, and pay for parking and still come ahead. We were willing to pay the little extra to stay on property because of the extras. I'm not so sure anymore.

 

[chasgeese]

I think the trouble lies mostly in the Value resorts. Deluxe guests...and even Moderate guests... are going to continue to pay whatever to stay on property. And the Deluxe resorts are so close to the parks, that you really are paying for that convenience. Those who stay in Value resorts stay there to save money, but still be in the bubble and get the extra perks. And it's not always because they aren't wealthy. Some people would just rather spend their money in the parks instead. I know that's the way we are. The resort is just the place where we sleep and maybe have a nighttime swim.

Without the added benefit of free airport transfers, fast passes, baggage service, etc., are the Values really worth it? I could stay off property at a nicer hotel, rent a car, and pay for parking and still come ahead. We were willing to pay the little extra to stay on property because of the extras. I'm not so sure anymore.

Honestly I think it’s possible that values are going to be the most affected by the lack of DME and the other extra perks. Even though they are cheaper than other on site options they still aren’t “cheap” especially when you can get a much nicer hotels (notably not motels) for the same price off-site. The people who stay there are likely to be more “cost-sensitive” (regardless of their actual financial situation) than other Disney on-site guests so the lack of perks could be a game changer for those guests more than others. The Deluxe resorts, on the other hand, charge so much that most people willing to pay those prices probably aren’t going to change their minds due to the loss of certain perks. You could stay at the Waldorf Astoria or the equally nice Swan/Dolphin (honestly no one can tell me the rooms at the GF are any nicer than those at the S/D), rent a car, pay resort fees and still have money to spare vs. a stay at many Deluxes. People stay at those hotels because they are considered to be “the best” and they have the best locations to at least some of the parks and they are likely willing to pay for that no matter how much Disney takes away.

 

[JakeAZ]

I mean, if people still pay the prices, then Disney isn't overcharging for anything. That's just basic economics.

I agree with this.

While, IMO, what WDW is offering right now is not justified by the hotel pricing, they are getting people to pay it.

 

[JakeAZ]

Honestly I think it’s possible that values are going to be the most affected by the lack of DME and the other extra perks. Even though they are cheaper than other on site options they still aren’t “cheap” especially when you can get a much nicer hotels (notably not motels) for the same price off-site. The people who stay there are likely to be more “cost-sensitive” (regardless of their actual financial situation) than other Disney on-site guests so the lack of perks could be a game changer for those guests more than others. The Deluxe resorts, on the other hand, charge so much that most people willing to pay those prices probably aren’t going to change their minds due to the loss of certain perks. You could stay at the Waldorf Astoria or the equally nice Swan/Dolphin (honestly no one can tell me the rooms at the GF are any nicer than those at the S/D), rent a car, pay resort fees and still have money to spare vs. a stay at many Deluxes. People stay at those hotels because they are considered to be “the best” and they have the best locations to at least some of the parks and they are likely willing to pay for that no matter how much Disney takes away.

You make some good points.

We rented points for our next trip. While we were able to get much better accommodations (a GV at BLT) for our large group, for less than what WDW was charging for 3 standard rooms over our dates, we are only willing to pay these Deluxe prices due to our circumstances. We have a large family group for a special occasion rescheduled from 2020. We also have older travelers with us who will benefit from being on-site.

If it was just my family of 4, we wouldn't be visiting until things normalized a bit more. There is also no way I'd pay Deluxe prices for what is included, right now, if we were on our own.

I need more than location / on-site transportation to justify spending $700+ per night to sleep in the same tiny room as my kids!

 

[JakeAZ]

We will wait and see what happens if FP doesn’t come back and no DME. People can rent a house for way less than Disney charges for a moderate and almost a value. Uber to the parks and save money. Then Disney will have a Uber problem to deal with and Disney will have empty hotels. There is lots of places, hotels and houses to compete with Disney, the perks make it worth it. Take them away and we will see. It seems the new management forgets why the perks existed in the first place.

You'll have to add the "uber" option to your park tickets...

 

[BuckeyeBama]

That's been the case for at least the last five years. I don't think people are paying that cost difference for Fast Passes and a bus ride from the airport.

I would pay the difference for 3 FP per day. I am sure that most would. But I would prefer that they just get rid of the FP system altogether. It would dramatically decrease wait times per ride across the entire day.