Poly Tower decision and RIV restrictions

[walt34]

I wonder whether the decision that the new tower at the Poly will join the existing association will make Disney reconsider the restrictions at RIV:

If the Cabins at Ft. Wilderness go in the same direction, the list of actively sold resorts will look like this in the near future:

WDW
Poly (no restrictions)
Ft. Wilderness (no restrictions)
RIV (restrictions)

outside WDW:
Aulani (no restrictions)
VDH (restrictions)

Even worse than when VGF was being sold in parallel to RIV, RIV will again be the only resort with restrictions.

I always thought the RIV restrictions were part of a long-term plan to disincentivize resale purchases vs. direct purchases. This could work if an increasing number of new resorts join RIV with restrictions (and the 'old model of DVC' slowly fades out after 2042). But if RIV remains the only resort with restrictions at WDW, I can't see this working out until well into the 2060s.

Should we expect Disney to reconsider the restrictions at RIV in the near future?

 

[Sandisw]

I think this decision, if it stays…because they did say the plan can change and nothing is filed yet…then I do think restrictions could be changing.

It makes no sense to stay with the model when this brand new build was then added to PVB. It damages the messaging that resale will not give you access…

We saw with VGF that price is what matters and it did well when it was lower…so, it will be the same here.

And, I think it will make CFW much harder to sell with this wish washy resale restrictions message. vGF was easy to explain…quick flip….this? Not so much..

I am waiting on a response from DVC because I want to see what they mean by it can still change and if so, when will we know that…as well as I plan to share that thoughts on restrictions.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

We saw with VGF that price is what matters and it did well when it was lower…

VGF was refurbed hotel rooms though. This is an entirely new build. I think this thing easily outsells Riviera having nothing to do with pricing. They’re going to be giving tours of brand new, spacious, 1 bedroom, 2 bedroom, and 3 bedroom units.

I am waiting on a response from DVC

Didn’t you just basically email front-line CM’s for DVC though? Or did you email someone higher up? Because I wouldn’t really take anything that a frontline MS gives you as an answer over what was said at this meeting.

 

[wiihoo888]

Yeah….we hust added on points a few days back and I am seriously considering cancelling the contract. This is our third contract at Riviera. Love the resort, but how much can they want to torpedo us for the sake of making all other owners happy. Also have to think that upcoming discounts will go even lower

 

[Cfabar1]

Price mattered to help move VGF. But I also think the lack of restrictions helped.

At least in our case, we were not eager to consider purchasing Riviera for a variety of reasons. One of them was if we sold it that we would be taking an immediately huge loss and if we bought more resale points there down the road to add on, they could only be used at Riviera.

Separately, we had looked at VGF for a while, and even bought some contracts to get us into the Disney system. We had planned on buying resale until Disney priced it right over the summer and allowed us to buy in at a price we felt was good for us.

Riviera would needed a much lower price to make us change that decision. Especially since, unlike resale, buying VGF direct did not limit us from staying at Riviera.

 

[Sandisw]

VGF was refurbed hotel rooms though. This is an entirely new build. I think this thing easily outsells Riviera having nothing to do with pricing. They’re going to be giving tours of brand new, spacious, 1 bedroom, 2 bedroom, and 3 bedroom units.

Didn’t you just basically email front-line CM’s for DVC though? Or did you email someone higher up? Because I wouldn’t really take anything that a frontline MS gives you as an answer over what was said at this meeting.

I emailed MS and asked that it be passed along to Changs office. So I will get a response from them and not frontline CMs.

It’s how I have always gotten responses from her team, including the call back when I request it.

So, any info I do get will be from higher ups.

 

[walt34]

I think this decision, if it stays…because they did say the plan can change and nothing is filed yet…then I do think restrictions could be changing.

It astounds me that this decision could still be in flux. I mean, if they know but don't want to tell us at this time, fine - but still considering?

I would assume that the decision to create a new association or join an existing one influences a lot of aspects of a new building, the number and types of rooms, point allocations, etc.

It's hard to imagine that someone would have green-lit a multi-million dollar construction project without a precise plan on how they are going to sell it.

My guess would be that they made that decision a long time ago and the careful language they used yesterday has legal reasons. Maybe they need to follow a specific procedure before they are allowed to communicate this as a final decision.

 

[Jlo85]

I think Disney is sticking with resale restrictions in new associations. Disney just doesn’t like having multiple associations at the same resort for various reasons, including branding and logistics. I would be very surprised if Fort Wilderness doesn’t have restrictions.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

As a restricted resale owner and someone who has only visited but never stayed at Riv I can say that I would love it if they went back on the restrictions so I can try it out. Knowing Disney though even when they make mistakes they usually double down on them and don’t actually correct them but it almost feels like they’re ready to concede on this one. Maybe not. Maybe going forward they implement restrictions but this Poly Tower is a big one to have unrestricted. It’s going to make selling the next resort much more difficult now if they decide to push ahead again.

 

[maui22]

Curious why people think CFW will be unrestricted? I think most expect it to be restricted and have the full 50 year contract.

The difference with PVB is it has always been a resort treated poorly because it did not have the full room options. Sure Disney sold it as as, but also said it was a major mistake. Even worse if tower was new with the 50 year contract, it would force Disney to deal with PVB standalone again in 2066. It has been sad that so many put down PVB and then want tower to be similar to their beloved RIV and on the same resort property as PVB. Felt like people wanting to laugh at PVB owners even more.

I truly think restricted for all properties expiring after CCV is the plan.

 

[Sandisw]

It astounds me that this decision could still be in flux. I mean, if they know but don't want to tell us at this time, fine - but still considering?

I would assume that the decision to create a new association or join an existing one influences a lot of aspects of a new building, the number and types of rooms, point allocations, etc.

It's hard to imagine that someone would have green-lit a multi-million dollar construction project without a precise plan on how they are going to sell it.

My guess would be that they made that decision a long time ago and the careful language they used yesterday has legal reasons. Maybe they need to follow a specific procedure before they are allowed to communicate this as a final decision.

They were able to announce that BPK would be part of VGF from the start, well before any filings. So, I do not think that is it.

I do agree that the decision would seem to play a role in the decisions for rooms, especially for how points will be decided since being part of PVB adds the layer of needing to consider the point structure of current studios.

I am actually disappointed with the way they responded because if they were not ready to commit it would have been better to say it’s still up in the air.

 

[Sandisw]

I will add that if we hear nothing from DVD today in terms of an offical clarification, then I’d say that’s a glaring sign that it won’t change since they know this is being reported as being a done deal.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Disney’s Poly2 decision pretty much assures that I’ll never buy direct or resale at Riviera, as much as I like it. Did it not occur to them that some if not most Riviera owners, who might have bought direct Riviera points thinking restrictions would be the norm going forward, might feel left out in the cold? My guess is that they’ll have to do something.

 

[walt34]

Disney’s Poly2 decision pretty much assures that I’ll never buy direct or resale at Riviera, as much as I like it.

I feel the same just with a more positive spin: if Disney were to take this opportunity to reconsider the restrictions at RIV, I’d probably buy points there.

 

[Genie+]

I am actually disappointed with the way they responded because if they were not ready to commit it would have been better to say it’s still up in the air.

Disappointing and strange. The sentence did not seem well prepared.

A 17 word statement- ambiguous at the start and then again at the end. What did they even intend to say? I dunno.

 

[CraigInPA]

I will add that if we hear nothing from DVD today in terms of an offical clarification, then I’d say that’s a glaring sign that it won’t change since they know this is being reported as being a done deal.

As I reported in January 2022, following a discussion with a DVC executive at a MM event at Epcot, their decision at that time was that it was to be part of the existing association. So, after two years of going in that direction, I doubt we'll see a change now.

 

[wiihoo888]

Disney’s Poly2 decision pretty much assures that I’ll never buy direct or resale at Riviera, as much as I like it. Did it not occur to them that some if not most Riviera owners, who might have bought direct Riviera points thinking restrictions would be the norm going forward, might feel left out in the cold? My guess is that they’ll have to do something.

I’m one of those owners and yup….feels like we got the old bait and switch

 

[Sandisw]

As I reported in January 2022, following a discussion with a DVC executive at a MM event at Epcot, their decision at that time was that it was to be part of the existing association. So, after two years of going in that direction, I doubt we'll see a change now.

Maybe not, but my point was that it’s being reported by several as confirmed and Chang did not do that. She just said it’s leaning that way.

If they stay silent today though knowing that people are reporting it as though it’s a done deal, then I think it speaks volumes that it is.

When BPK was announced, it was made clear.

 

[pianomanzano]

As a RIV resale and direct owner, I'd love if they took away the restrictions as it would make the deal I got on those resale points that much sweeter, but I'm not holding my breath. We planned out our purchases with the restrictions in mind so we would be fine either way and can currently get whatever room type we want at all the resorts despite the restrictions.

 

[sndral]

Maybe not, but my point was that it’s being reported by several as confirmed and Chang did not do that. She just said it’s leaning that way.

If they stay silent today though knowing that people are reporting it as though it’s a done deal, then I think it speaks volumes that it is.

When BPK was announced, it was made clear.

“Our plans right now are for the new tower to be part of the existing Polynesian resort“ is a stronger statement than “leaning that way.”
Chang left wiggle room in case those plans changed, but if they truly were still deciding then Chang’s answer would have been far less specific.
I’d speculate the same/different association decision is driven by 11 month booking priority since DVC cares about direct buyers, especially future direct buyers. Poly1, like all DVC resorts, likely is mostly owned by folks who bought it direct & I’m guessing those Poly1 direct buyers would be unhappy if they couldn’t book Poly2 at 11 months & that’s what’s driving the new association v. add on to Poly1 decision plus economies of scale will likely reduce MFs. VGF2 sold a lot of points to existing owners & I expect Poly2 will as well.
The fact that newer resale buyers at other resorts will be able to book Poly2 at 7 months, & Poly2 resale buyers will be able to book at the O14 at 7 months must be less important to DVC v. appealing to potential direct buyers who want 11 mo. access to original Poly studios + the new villas in Poly2.
I’m not sure why owners of Riviera would be upset, they knew that resale restrictions were part of the deal when they bought, VDH is currently for sale & is restricted, I expect the FW cabins to be restricted as well. If DVC decides to do a quick flip & convert Aruba &/or Martinique @ CBR to DVC in the next couple of years I’d expect them to be added to the Riviera1 association w/ Riviera’s resale restrictions.