Rejected Offers Thread

[Instagramhusband]

Here's a good one for you all:

There is a contract listed on a site (it is blocked, so I won't tell you the resort, points amount, UY, or the list price). The offer I made was at 90% of the list price, which is in line with the current market for that resort, contract size and points available, and the listing had been up for 21 days. The seller came back with a counter-offer that dropped their number by a whopping 2.5% and I told them to (politely) pound sand. I told the agent that they'd need to come down a good bit closer to meeting me in the middle, which they rejected. I wished the agent good luck.

I now see that the contract list price has actually been INCREASED by a couple of dollars per point, and it's now been sitting for a month and a half. Oh, and there are no points until 2025. I emailed the agent out of curiosity to ask if there was some mistake, and she said they had raised the price against her counsel, in order to "negotiate" back down to their original asking price (which, again, was too high to begin with).

Some real geniuses out there.

I had one rejected a few weeks ago, was told someone else made an acceptable offer and 5 days later it was back on the market at the same price I offered. I was told that the owner was going to take it off the market now. 5 days later it is still online! I am thinking this broker just doesn't like me!

 

[DonMacGregor]

I had one rejected a few weeks ago, was told someone else made an acceptable offer and 5 days later it was back on the market at the same price I offered. I was told that the owner was going to take it off the market now. 5 days later it is still online! I am thinking this broker just doesn't like me!

In the case I mentioned I can tell you the broker is a bit frustrated with the seller. I am positive they had several offers at or above mine and all were rejected. And it still sits there.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I had one rejected a few weeks ago, was told someone else made an acceptable offer and 5 days later it was back on the market at the same price I offered. I was told that the owner was going to take it off the market now. 5 days later it is still online! I am thinking this broker just doesn't like me!

I think we put a lot on the brokers and give the sellers a pass…. sellers do not always act rationally… especially if one partner wants to keep it and another might want to sell it….

 

[CVG]

I would hazard a guess that it’s the same two or three brokers coming up all the time. Most have been terrific and professional and not offered to educate me.

 

[Instagramhusband]

I would hazard a guess that it’s the same two or three brokers coming up all the time. Most have been terrific and professional and not offered to educate me.

It could be the seller but it was an odd explanation by the broker.

 

[chazas]

I think we put a lot on the brokers and give the sellers a pass…. sellers do not always act rationally… especially if one partner wants to keep it and another might want to sell it….

Agree. I had a number of rejected offers to get to my two pending contracts and save one outlying agency where all I got was a number counteroffer a couple of days later (I bet I can't say it but I'll try, Vacatia) all the brokers were clearly communicating seller desires and responses, not their own.

 

[RachStu]

Hi all,

I wondered if I could ask some advice on SSR pricing. I’m helping some friends look for a resale contract but have no experience of buying indirect at that particular resort (we’ve bought resale at BRV, AKL and RIV and own direct at SSR from way back in 2007). What would be considered to be a lowball price for a 200-300 point contract with full points for the current year (by which I mean Dec 2023)? I’ve suggested $75-80 starting offers, but is that too low? We’ve seen some listed around the $94 mark so have taken little notice of broker’s suggestions we should be offering upwards of $110.

 

[JackosinDIS]

I don’t think $75 to $80 is too low.. you may end somewhere in the middle, but with 2023 points available it seems to be that somewhere around $90 is a decent price!

 

[Chili327]

Hi all,

I wondered if I could ask some advice on SSR pricing. I’m helping some friends look for a resale contract but have no experience of buying indirect at that particular resort (we’ve bought resale at BRV, AKL and RIV and own direct at SSR from way back in 2007). What would be considered to be a lowball price for a 200-300 point contract with full points for the current year (by which I mean Dec 2023)? I’ve suggested $75-80 starting offers, but is that too low? We’ve seen some listed around the $94 mark so have taken little notice of broker’s suggestions we should be offering upwards of $110.

https://www.dvcrofr.com/pricing-tool

 

[tom1944]

Hi all,

I wondered if I could ask some advice on SSR pricing. I’m helping some friends look for a resale contract but have no experience of buying indirect at that particular resort (we’ve bought resale at BRV, AKL and RIV and own direct at SSR from way back in 2007). What would be considered to be a lowball price for a 200-300 point contract with full points for the current year (by which I mean Dec 2023)? I’ve suggested $75-80 starting offers, but is that too low? We’ve seen some listed around the $94 mark so have taken little notice of broker’s suggestions we should be offering upwards of $110.

Here are all the recorded deeds for SSR in that point range for April so far.

OCTOBER	200​	$ 14,000.00	$ 70.00
AUGUST	200​	$ 16,000.00	$ 80.00
AUGUST	200​	$ 16,000.00	$ 80.00
MARCH	200​	$ 17,400.00	$ 87.00
FEBRUARY	200​	$ 18,000.00	$ 90.00
DECEMBER	200​	$ 18,200.00	$ 91.00
DECEMBER	200​	$ 19,000.00	$ 95.00
DECEMBER	200​	$ 19,600.00	$ 98.00
DECEMBER	200​	$ 20,200.00	$ 101.00
SEPTEMBER	200​	$ 20,200.00	$ 101.00
MARCH	200​	$ 20,600.00	$ 103.00
DECEMBER	200​	$ 22,800.00	$ 114.00
FEBRUARY	210​	$ 21,900.00	104.29​
FEBRUARY	211​	$ 21,733.00	$ 103.00
DECEMBER	220​	$ 20,460.00	$ 93.00
JUNE	225​	$ 18,000.00	$ 80.00
FEBRUARY	225​	$ 22,300.00	$ 99.11
SEPTEMBER	225​	$ 23,625.00	$ 105.00
AUGUST	240​	$ 23,040.00	$ 96.00
FEBRUARY	250​	$ 20,750.00	$ 83.00
FEBRUARY	250​	$ 21,375.00	$ 85.50
FEBRUARY	315​	$ 34,650.00	$ 110.00

 

[DonMacGregor]

Hi all,

I wondered if I could ask some advice on SSR pricing. I’m helping some friends look for a resale contract but have no experience of buying indirect at that particular resort (we’ve bought resale at BRV, AKL and RIV and own direct at SSR from way back in 2007). What would be considered to be a lowball price for a 200-300 point contract with full points for the current year (by which I mean Dec 2023)? I’ve suggested $75-80 starting offers, but is that too low? We’ve seen some listed around the $94 mark so have taken little notice of broker’s suggestions we should be offering upwards of $110.

I'll put it this way: currently, there are somewhere in the range of 200-225 SSR contracts on the market that fall between 200 and 300 points. Of those, excluding the contracts that have been listed for more than six months (for obvious reasons), roughly a half-dozen are priced above $110 per point, and NONE (loaded, stripped, doesn't matter) of those are priced higher than $115.

I'm not sure who they talked to, but there are a number of 200+ point contracts out there right now that are listed at or below $100 per point that are fully loaded with banked points as well as current UY.

 

[RachStu]

Here are all the recorded deeds for SSR in that point range for April so far.

OCTOBER	200​	$ 14,000.00	$ 70.00
AUGUST	200​	$ 16,000.00	$ 80.00
AUGUST	200​	$ 16,000.00	$ 80.00
MARCH	200​	$ 17,400.00	$ 87.00
FEBRUARY	200​	$ 18,000.00	$ 90.00
DECEMBER	200​	$ 18,200.00	$ 91.00
DECEMBER	200​	$ 19,000.00	$ 95.00
DECEMBER	200​	$ 19,600.00	$ 98.00
DECEMBER	200​	$ 20,200.00	$ 101.00
SEPTEMBER	200​	$ 20,200.00	$ 101.00
MARCH	200​	$ 20,600.00	$ 103.00
DECEMBER	200​	$ 22,800.00	$ 114.00
FEBRUARY	210​	$ 21,900.00	104.29​
FEBRUARY	211​	$ 21,733.00	$ 103.00
DECEMBER	220​	$ 20,460.00	$ 93.00
JUNE	225​	$ 18,000.00	$ 80.00
FEBRUARY	225​	$ 22,300.00	$ 99.11
SEPTEMBER	225​	$ 23,625.00	$ 105.00
AUGUST	240​	$ 23,040.00	$ 96.00
FEBRUARY	250​	$ 20,750.00	$ 83.00
FEBRUARY	250​	$ 21,375.00	$ 85.50
FEBRUARY	315​	$ 34,650.00	$ 110.00

That is really useful. Thank you!

 

[RachStu]

I'll put it this way: currently, there are somewhere in the range of 200-225 SSR contracts on the market that fall between 200 and 300 points. Of those, excluding the contracts that have been listed for more than six months (for obvious reasons), roughly a half-dozen are priced above $110 per point, and NONE (loaded, stripped, doesn't matter) of those are priced higher than $115.

I'm not sure who they talked to, but there are a number of 200+ point contracts out there right now that are listed at or below $100 per point that are fully loaded with banked points as well as current UY.

I think it was an agent that told me similar nonsense last year when we bought at BRV.

 

[tom1944]

That is really useful. Thank you!

Just remember it’s not perfect because it does not give you specific details regarding the number of points available for the prior, current or upcoming year. It also does not breakdown what the payment includes- such as dues paid.

It is simply the amount that the deed deduction tax was calculated on.

My current thought is it works best if you are bidding on stripped contracts. There should be zero or very little dues paid on a stripped contract. I would use the lowest third of prices as my offer on stripped contracts.

With loaded contracts the broker usually says the low price was not on a loaded contract like you are bidding on. It is just as often false as it is true but you may not know for sure. Cannot tell you that on a stripped contract.

 

[tom1944]

Just remember it’s not perfect because it does not give you specific details regarding the number of points available for the prior, current or upcoming year. It also does not breakdown what the payment includes- such as dues paid.

It is simply the amount that the deed deduction tax was calculated on.

My current thought is it works best if you are bidding on stripped contracts. There should be zero or very little dues paid on a stripped contract. I would use the lowest third of prices as my offer on stripped contracts.

With loaded contracts the broker usually says the low price was not on a loaded contract like you are bidding on. It is just as often false as it is true but you may not know for sure. Cannot tell you that on a stripped contract.

It was pointed out to me though that stripped contracts may be listed by a more experienced owner who rents out their points and will only sell for a set price while loaded contracts may be listed by inexperienced owners who just are not using their points and want to sell to get out of the yearly cost.

 

[lilsonicfan]

Yeah I tend to think, though counterintuitive, you may get further with a lower offer on a loaded contract than on a stripped one…although of course it’s always hard to tell. My thinking is always that loaded/double loaded contracts may indicate someone not using their points any more. I wouldn’t be starting in the $90s, if I was patient.

 

[BrianLo]

I really think loaded contracts are the way to go for all those reasons. As well as being able to offer a higher 'cognitive' price to the seller and still come out ahead with the effective price you are after. We also undersell the benefit of a higher adjusted cost base if you ever want to turn around and resell if the price has gone up in 15-20 years.

140$ on my CCV 50 pointer seemed palatable. 120$ on a 50-point CCV missing 2023 points would be essentially the same thing, but yet seems so much more of a flashy deal (or a bad sale for the seller) when framed that way.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I really think loaded contracts are the way to go for all those reasons. As well as being able to offer a higher 'cognitive' price to the seller and still come out ahead with the effective price you are after. We also undersell the benefit of a higher adjusted cost base if you ever want to turn around and resell if the price has gone up in 15-20 years.

140$ on my CCV 50 pointer seemed palatable. 120$ on a 50-point CCV missing 2023 points would be essentially the same thing, but yet seems so much more of a flashy deal (or a bad sale for the seller) when framed that way.

All of this. I don’t think you should buy DVC expecting capital gains, but having a higher base can be valuable for tax reasons (I guess even in my pessimistic scenario it would also be great for tax loss harvesting to pay more, lol).

Ok, you’ve inspired a tax hypothetical:
If I buy BWV today at $120 loaded and sell it in 2040 for $10 with only 2041 points, can I take that $110 as a long term capital loss?

 

[JackosinDIS]

I really think loaded contracts are the way to go for all those reasons. As well as being able to offer a higher 'cognitive' price to the seller and still come out ahead with the effective price you are after. We also undersell the benefit of a higher adjusted cost base if you ever want to turn around and resell if the price has gone up in 15-20 years.

140$ on my CCV 50 pointer seemed palatable. 120$ on a 50-point CCV missing 2023 points would be essentially the same thing, but yet seems so much more of a flashy deal (or a bad sale for the seller) when framed that way.

100%

 

[BrianLo]

Ok, you’ve inspired a tax hypothetical:
If I buy BWV today at $120 loaded and sell it in 2040 for $10 with only 2041 points, can I take that $110 as a long term capital loss?

That's legitimately an interesting question. I don't know American Taxes at all or if it would be subject to being a technically used depreciated asset.

Buy high, sell low as they say.