Rented DVC points expiring—any hope?

[donp]

I have rented DVC points through www.bookdvc.com (broker) for AKL in May. Unlike David’s Rental, they do not appear to be offering the future rental credit, and these rental points expire the end of May. What I am reading is that the future of these points is undecided, but very well may just expire (I have read all the commentary about rental inventory, etc). Of course, there are terms written in the contract stating that cancellations for “any reason” will not be issued a refund. That said, BookDVC recognizes this is a unique situation and still fluid. I guess my question is, what is fair to request of the DVC owner via the broker if Disney decides to just let these points expire? I am out thousands of dollars, where the owner is out the maintenance fees on those points (and I guess one year of the overall cost of those points on his/her purchase price??). I get that it is a bummer for the owner, but it is bigger bummer for me. Do I request my money back? Do I request the difference of rental fee minus the maintenance fee? It just seems like if the DVC owner did not refund quite a bit of the rental that he/she would just be taking big time advantage of me (meaning not only would they not just recoup their maintenance fee cost, but would have over doubled that figure). Any insight or suggestions are appreciated!

Modified to include link

 

[Marionnette]

I have rented DVC points through BookDVC (broker) for AKL in May. Unlike David’s Rental, they do not appear to be offering the future rental credit, and these rental points expire the end of May. What I am reading is that the future of these points is undecided, but very well may just expire (I have read all the commentary about rental inventory, etc). Of course, there are terms written in the contract stating that cancellations for “any reason” will not be issued a refund. That said, BookDVC recognizes this is a unique situation and still fluid. I guess my question is, what is fair to request of the DVC owner via the broker if Disney decides to just let these points expire? I am out thousands of dollars, where the owner is out the maintenance fees on those points (and I guess one year of the overall cost of those points on his/her purchase price??). I get that it is a bummer for the owner, but it is bigger bummer for me. Do I request my money back? Do I request the difference of rental fee minus the maintenance fee? It just seems like if the DVC owner did not refund quite a bit of the rental that he/she would just be taking big time advantage of me (meaning not only would they not just recoup their maintenance fee cost, but would have over doubled that figure). Any insight or suggestions are appreciated!

You can ask for a refund minus maintenance fees. Don’t expect it. Those points had/have value above what was paid in maintenance fees. Owners generally do not profit when they rent. They pretty much break even. Renting is a way to mitigate losses on points that they do not intend to use personally. Anyone who rents “for profit” is not using a broker.

Having said that and answering based on your supposition that DVC will do nothing to restore the owner’s points’ usefulness, I feel that a fair expectation would be to evenly split the amount you paid (minus BookDVC.com ‘s fees). So, if the owner was paid $16.50/point, you could reasonably ask for a refund of $8.25/point. That doesn’t mean that the owner will agree. They did enter into the agreement with assurances that there would be no refunds and they may not have the money to refund to you.

FWIW, I would wait to see what DVC does for owners with expired points. If those owners are given reasonable accommodations for their lost points, you will have more leverage for a larger refund or a new reservation in exchange for what you’ve paid.

Good luck.

 

[LindySpirit]

I have rented DVC points through BookDVC (broker) for AKL in May. Unlike David’s Rental, they do not appear to be offering the future rental credit, and these rental points expire the end of May. What I am reading is that the future of these points is undecided, but very well may just expire (I have read all the commentary about rental inventory, etc). Of course, there are terms written in the contract stating that cancellations for “any reason” will not be issued a refund. That said, BookDVC recognizes this is a unique situation and still fluid. I guess my question is, what is fair to request of the DVC owner via the broker if Disney decides to just let these points expire? I am out thousands of dollars, where the owner is out the maintenance fees on those points (and I guess one year of the overall cost of those points on his/her purchase price??). I get that it is a bummer for the owner, but it is bigger bummer for me. Do I request my money back? Do I request the difference of rental fee minus the maintenance fee? It just seems like if the DVC owner did not refund quite a bit of the rental that he/she would just be taking big time advantage of me (meaning not only would they not just recoup their maintenance fee cost, but would have over doubled that figure). Any insight or suggestions are appreciated!

Did you purchase any trip insurance at all?

 

[donp]

Did you purchase any trip insurance at all?

No, and I never do. If the cancellation had been on my part for sickness, etc, I would completely eat the cost and not expect anything. I would understand in that scenario that I took a risk by not having insurance and lost. This just seems different and unprecedented. Seeing that the two largest rental companies were offering future credit in this scenario gave me some hope that there should be a different expectation of at least a partial recoup.

 

[Matty B13]

You also have to remember that the owner had the cost of maintenance fees, plus the initial buy-in cost of the points. I know mine were between $3 - $4 a points to purchase, so the owner has about $10 to $12 of "expenses" for those points that you rented.

 

[Sandisw]

Unfortunately, we are finding how risky rentals can now be as well for owners who book late in the UY with points that expire.

At this point, all you can do is ask the broker if the owner is willing to do anything for you if those points get restored or if they get some level of exception for them.

If they decide to honor your contract as written, then you may be stuck.

 

[GoofyCoaster]

Had not heard of this broker before. But on quick review of the site, this broker pays owners 70% of the owner share upfront (16.50 x 0.7= 11.55 per point). For reference, I’m a newer owner and the annual point cost + maintenance fees on my contracts exceed $12 per point.

OP can certainly request a refund from the owner via the broker. But this circles back to the issue that it’s tough for an owner and renter to share the loss and split 50/50 when the broker commission and 30% remainder due the owner are in the broker’s coffer.

 

[CarolMN]

Was your reservation cancelled? If so, and if you paid by credit card, you could try disputing the charge with the credit card company because the promised reservation was not delivered. It may or may not be resolved in your favor.

Before doing that, my advice is to contact the broker and ask for a refund for the same reason.

This situation is no one's fault, and it stinks for everyone involved.

 

[donp]

Was your reservation cancelled? If so, and if you paid by credit card, you could try disputing the charge with the credit card company because the promised reservation was not delivered. It may or may not be resolved in your favor.

Before doing that, my advice is to contact the broker and ask for a refund for the same reason.

This situation is no one's fault, and it stinks for everyone involved.

Not cancelled yet, but it is for May 10th and I am just reading the writing on the wall. Yes, I will definitely contact the broker again when I know definitively that it is cancelled. I have been in intact with him and he is communicating with the owner. The owner was hoping that Disney would extend the points a bit into June in this scenario but as we have seen, they have not been doing this of yet with the whole limited inventory, limbo date on starting back-up, etc. From what I can tell, the owner has been trying to get things changed for me. I do appreciate his efforts!
Yes . . . Stinky for all!

 

[donp]

Thanks for all the insight! It at least helps me understand the costs involved for owners. We are a group of nine with APs expiring in May (I know that will be extended) but lots of pieces would have to fall in place to get a time that has inventory, passes still good, pandemic travel restrictions eased. I am hoping some sort of credit will at least be applied.

 

[LawrenceFamily]

When you make a booking, it does state that you should take out insurance to cover you if anything happens as the booking is non-refundable. If you've not done this, I'm sorry but it is not the owners responsibility to compensate you, no matter this situation. This is exactly the reason why you take insurance, to cover you 'just in case', however unlikely.

It's a horrible situation but from an owners perspective, if they lose the points (which they will) and there isn't opportunity for them to re-sell the points, then as per the agreement, it's non-refundable and they are under no obligation to offer any credit.

It's an unprecedented situation, but it's the same for the owner too. Unfortunately it looks to be an expensive mistake but one to learn from in the future

Good luck

 

[CraigInPA]

I think a lot of your "options" would be spelled out in the contract to rent from this broker. Does it include a force majeure clause that covers the resorts closing as part of the non-refundable nature of the contract? If it's like David's, and does not, you should, after being told the reservation is cancelled, ask the broker for a refund of at least their portion of the proceeds, or issue a charge back with your credit card.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Seeing that the two largest rental companies were offering future credit in this scenario gave me some hope that there should be a different expectation of at least a partial recoup.

However, the big brokers have more history, volume and better cash reserves. This is among the risks of using a smaller broker. They are unlikely to have a lot of goodwill or slush to work with. I don't think you should be expecting a small broker to act like the big brokers.

 

[crisi]

However, the big brokers have more history, volume and better cash reserves. This is among the risks of using a smaller broker. They are unlikely to have a lot of goodwill or slush to work with. I don't think you should be expecting a small broker to act like the big brokers.

Although I think brokers are going to be hard pressed to make good on their promises. They'll still need to pay for the inventory they need to fill the vouchers. Their margins aren't huge to start with, and they do have costs of running their business. I think they have good intentions in making those promises, but I'll be shocked if David's doesn't end up in bankruptcy long before he gets around to filling a quarter of those vouchers. I suppose its dependent on if he can get enough cheaper points from owners as the supply demand curve shifts while getting some of the owners currently in the system to make good on reservations and Disney taking some action to facilitate all of this - I suspect that's what he and the larger brokers are counting on - that's a lot of dominoes to line up.

 

[cm8]

No, and I never do. If the cancellation had been on my part for sickness, etc, I would completely eat the cost and not expect anything. I would understand in that scenario that I took a risk by not having insurance and lost. This just seems different and unprecedented. Seeing that the two largest rental companies were offering future credit in this scenario gave me some hope that there should be a different expectation of at least a partial recoup.

I would reach out and ask if it were possible to have the date pushed out. It also depends on what you signed and agreed to. In my case, I had a reservation for April that was no longer going to be used due to the resort being closed.

Even though I have a no refund clause, I did in fact refund my renter because it was the right thing to do. Most of us are not trying to get over on our renters. And most would do well to know that if “we” Owners want to keep the rental market going, we’re going to have to do things to maintain it so it’s there for us in the future.

I don’t mind working with my Renters to secure a new reservation. If my renter asked me to extend it out an additional year, I would in good faith make it happen as long as it was available. If it was at a higher point cost, I would consider eating that to make it possible too, but I would not be under any obligation to do so.

Did you check to see if your credit card maybe covered interrupted travel plans?

 

[donp]

I would reach out and ask if it were possible to have the date pushed out. It also depends on what you signed and agreed to. In my case, I had a reservation for April that was no longer going to be used due to the resort being closed.

Even though I have a no refund clause, I did in fact refund my renter because it was the right thing to do. Most of us are not trying to get over on our renters. And most would do well to know that if “we” Owners want to keep the rental market going, we’re going to have to do things to maintain it so it’s there for us in the future.

I don’t mind working with my Renters to secure a new reservation. If my renter asked me to extend it out an additional year, I would in good faith make it happen as long as it was available. If it was at a higher point cost, I would consider eating that to make it possible too, but I would not be under any obligation to do so.

Did you check to see if your credit card maybe covered interrupted travel plans?

Thanks! We have tried to push out the date, but these points expire May 31st ( I rented points January 8). He has talked to DVC and told they aren’t making exceptions at this point.

Just checked my credit card and they don’t offer protection.

I like your approach, and if I were the owner, I think I would do the same. It seems like the “right” thing to do to reimburse the renter who had his/her trip canceled by no fault of his own, IMHO. But as we said before, this is stinky for everyone and no one wins here. (Duly noted about the insurance recommendations).

All this said, my May 10th trip is not canceled yet, my owner is going to bat at DVC, my broker is communicating and seems kind, and we still don’t know what Disney is going to do with these expired points.

I am grateful to all you owners allowing me another perspective! I feel like my communications with the agency will be better informed because of all of you as well. And, if I eat it, I eat it!

 

[Upatnoon]

What you really rented was a reservation at a DVC resort.

If Disney cancels the reservation, and the owner can't provide what he sold you, then you should get a full refund.

Perhaps instead of a refund, you can work out traveling at a future date with the DVC owner, but that would be between you and the person you rented from.

The expiring points issue is between DVC and its owners, not renters who just wanted a stay at a Disney resort.

 

[starry_solo]

Thanks! We have tried to push out the date, but these points expire May 31st ( I rented points January 8). He has talked to DVC and told they aren’t making exceptions at this point.

Just checked my credit card and they don’t offer protection.

I like your approach, and if I were the owner, I think I would do the same. It seems like the “right” thing to do to reimburse the renter who had his/her trip canceled by no fault of his own, IMHO. But as we said before, this is stinky for everyone and no one wins here. (Duly noted about the insurance recommendations).

All this said, my May 10th trip is not canceled yet, my owner is going to bat at DVC, my broker is communicating and seems kind, and we still don’t know what Disney is going to do with these expired points.

I am grateful to all you owners allowing me another perspective! I feel like my communications with the agency will be better informed because of all of you as well. And, if I eat it, I eat it!

Are you sure your credit card won't offer protection?

 

[donp]

Are you sure your credit card won't offer protection?

I have Capital One Venture Card. Didn’t see that as an option for that card.

 

[Tbella]

What you really rented was a reservation at a DVC resort.

If Disney cancels the reservation, and the owner can't provide what he sold you, then you should get a full refund.

Perhaps instead of a refund, you can work out traveling at a future date with the DVC owner, but that would be between you and the person you rented from.

The expiring points issue is between DVC and its owners, not renters who just wanted a stay at a Disney resort.

This! If I sold a good/service to a consumer that I can not provide, for whatever reason, I have to issue a refund. The implied contract is, consumer gives me X for my Y. If I can not provide Y, then, I should not receive/keep X. How is this not a universal understanding and...not an attorney, but, pretty certain...law in all 50 states?