Response to ADA Suit

[Kellykins1218]

Disney has told be to book Fastpass plus reservations I know I will not make.

You can make FP+ & DAS return times the whole time the park is open. How can you say you couldn't use them? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[SLP958]

Perhaps you missed the part where I said I explained my issues just as I had done previously at Disney and at other parks (and said other parks do not seem to have a problem understanding my limitations and needs). Plus I think you have also missed the fact that I mentioned I had my carer during these interactions (who is not here to communicate the point that you clearly feel is getting missed here).

Again, I have already said that I went to Guest Relations everyday as I was told every park has different accommodations for those who DAS is unsuitable for and I must discuss my needs at each park individually. That is how long it took for each CM to understand what I can and cannot do, as I walked in and explained everything that they needed to know so that they could tell me how they would accommodate me as per the earlier post where Disney says that a guest who have alternate needs than the DAS accommodates they must discuss it in person at Guest Relations. So you can see that I couldn't possibly have both been in their for an hour and just walked in and said DAS won't work as you suggest. It had already been discussed as the GAC became DAS and it was agreed that DAS would not work but to come back and something would be available by then.

I didn't know Figment closed early, but they did and sent me there anyway. And I didn't have until day 4 of the May trip (day 6 of the DAS system) and only because I had to as I was told I could have the DAS or nothing.

Do not tell me what I did and did not do as you were not there and can only suppose after the fact. I will not justify myself not putting a verbatim conversation on a public forum that could in the future lead to abuse. You were not there and I verbalize much better in person than I do in here. You complain I write too much, but I would not have that issue if people cannot grasp that my original post, where I stated I would rather not mention the details of my illness, concerns the fact that Disney has told be to book Fastpass plus reservations I know I will not make. Whilst I continue to work with Disney in regards to my disability (which is between Disney and myself) I said I hope the lawsuit draws enough attention to the effect the GAC to DAS change actually has on the non-disabled population.

There is no need to be so rude concerning my written communication as most people who post on this thread would like it to stay open.

You still have not said what you wanted them to do to accommodate you. Maybe if you could be
More specific they could have come up with a solution.
Now, knowing the rules and limitations, maybe your next trip can be more enjoyable as you can plan better.

 

[Jedana]

You can make FP+ & DAS return times the whole time the park is open. How can you say you couldn't use them? That doesn't make any sense.

If someone has to leave the park, they can still return later and use the DAS for the ride they were going on at the beginning--there is no cut off time. I've even read stories on the FB page where people came back the next day and were able to use the DAS for accessing the ride that was last on the form.

I agree with Kellykins---how can you not make that work, nobodies36?

And as far as losing FP+--well, I can't count the number of times we got FPs, back in the paper days, and didn't use them. Losing your FP+ time is the same for EVERYONE, as it should be.

Disney has provided ACCESS to the parks and rides. It doesn't guarantee that one can do EVERYTHING in the park. They are required to offer ACCESS, no more, no less. It's upon the person to either make the access work for them or to not.

 

[North of Mouse]

There is no need to be so rude concerning my written communication as most people who post on this thread would like it to stay open.

I don't think anyone has been rude to you. It's just that no one seems to understand what you really 'need' from Disney, and you have been going around in very lengthy circles without stating that need.

Sorry for the misunderstandings, but everyone is confused by your answers.

 

[lanejudy]

... I cannot use the fastpass plus system and with the limitation of the rides I can do can mean even with DAS I have to leave before I can ride. ...

I think people DO understand that you claim FP+ and DAS won't work, but it hasn't been particularly clear WHY those programs are unacceptable for you, or even if you gave them a sincere effort. Bear with me as I try to consolidate the situation; this is my understanding from your various posts:

1) I understand you had a WDW trip in fall 2013 just as GAC changed to DAS; at that time you were informed there would be more accommodations in place for your trip in May 2014. I don't know why a CM would indicate that; there was expectation that the DAS may be "tweaked" a bit as it rolls out, but I never heard anyone else promise more or different accommodations would be forthcoming. While anything is possible, I wouldn't expect it unless or until such change has been implemented. Unfortunately, I think you were given bad advice and as such had an expectation that was maybe unrealistic. For that I'm sorry you may have been mislead and I can understand your frustration.

2) I understand "other parks" accommodate you. What hasn't been clear is which parks and how you were accommodated. I see you are from Glasgow, Scotland, so I don't know if these other parks are in Europe or the U.S. Rules and laws regarding accommodations are very different in the U.S. Most major theme parks in the U.S. have a similar program to DAS. In any case, claiming that WDW should help you because another park does is not likely to work.

3) I hear you cannot make it to specific times such as FP+. I'm very confused how you manage to function in daily life. You obviously made it to the airport and onto a specific flight. I'm going to guess your medical professionals don't offer you completely opened ended appointments such as "show up any time next week when you are awake." Unlike transatlantic flights and medical appointments, FP+ is relatively simple to change if or when the situation calls for a change. Others are able to make that change for you if you are unavailable.

4) I hear you say you fall asleep at inopportune times, and must lie down even if it puts you at risk. Such a statement is not likely to get you much traction. You need to be responsible for your own well-being, or with assistance from your party. The DAS is offered to keep you out of the lines as much as possible so you can be in a safer environment of your choosing rather than stuck in a line.

5) I understand you may sleep for 2 hours or 36 hours, and you never know for how long or when you'll awaken. WDW is not going to accommodate you for not coming into the parks. Another member of your party is welcome to bring your DAS to the park early and get a return time for you. It will be valid when you arrive any time that day or night. Likewise, others can modify your FP+ selections and push them to later in the day, assuming you are linked as friends and family on MDE. If you are asleep in the morning when they head to the parks, and you haven't joined them in time for the first FP+ ride, they can push that out for you to another time or choose another ride.

6) I understand you feel you are wasting FP+. In fact, numerous posts indicate wasting "hundreds" of them. Not knowing how long each of your trips has been, with 3 pre-scheduled FP+ options per day, that's more than 33 park days to get even 100 FP+. Even if you end up not using 1 or more FP+ on a given day, many people do that; it's not going to dictate that another accommodation is necessary. It's admirable that you would like others to have the chance to use a FP+ time that you are unable to use, but consider it yours like a restaurant meal -- you've ordered it and it's yours to eat (ride) or not, save it to eat later (reschedule the ride) or throw it away.

I'm honestly not picking on you, but trying to figure out how best to help you explain your situation to CMs. You seem to be staunchly insisting that FP+ and DAS cannot work for you, but have given no concrete examples of when you gave either/both an honest effort. Unfortunately, there are times in life we have to try something in order to prove it doesn't work. You will have to explain those specifics to Guest Relations, the specifics of how/when either program failed, but leave out the rest of the "clutter" that seems to cloud your explanation. Keep it short, clear and concise with specific examples -- maybe write a list ahead of time. I do sincerely hope that you can either find a way to make FP+ and DAS work for you, or that you find a concise way to explain specific instances where it did not work so CMs may better understand why the current program is not adequate for your needs.

I wish you luck in your next vacation and that it work out better for you!

 

[kaytieeldr]

I know what you are saying and I have had a hard time with people seeing the original point was to 'help' with my disability I was to make fastpasses I knew I could not keep. If I had wiggle room I wouldn't need a DAS or need to make multiple Mine Train reservations that I could not keep (but had no alternative from Disney if I wanted to ride just once). The point was not to give disabled people more, but to stop a repeat of taking from one guest to give to another guest that caused animosity against GAC users even before the abuse of the GACs became big news.

The DAS is the wiggle room. And if you make and cancel a hundred FP+ reservations over six days, so what? Somebody else who couldn't originally get that spot now may be able to when making their own changes especially if your carer cancels them while you sleep since you can't. You can still use the DAS when you get back to that park.

It's apparent Disney doesn't offer any other solution for someone with your needs, although you repeatedly post your condition and not you neds or what the DAS/Disney could do for you. Probably the only solution is the DAS and try to use FP+ as it was designed, because there likely won't be any further adaptation beyond the 15 minute grace period

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

The DAS is the wiggle room. And if you make and cancel a hundred FP+ reservations over six days, so what? Somebody else who couldn't originally get that spot now may be able to when making their own changes especially if your carer cancels them while you sleep since you can't. You can still use the DAS when you get back to that park.

Agree. Also the system is designed with "gone to waste" FP in mind. Just like airlines oversell seats. So many things can and do happen. They do with so called "healthy" groups and are run of the mill normal for the largest part of those with medical issues or disability. Very business as usual for so many something can pop uo any minute that can alter plans there and then.

DAS provides the opportunity to use later on the day. Plenty imho. One either has the option to come back later and ride or that day is gone for the popup-reason and nothing anyone could do means riding that day. Might be me but I do view that as providing access and being enough.

Such is life sometimes. Its not disney but Mother Nature acting up. Doesnt always feel fine or even fair perhaps but thats a different issue all together that in no way means disney should "make up". Before questions: been there, done that. Havent done disney any other way. At any second something can pop up that requires acute alteration of plans for hours, day or longer. It is what is it. We plan with the knowledge it will happen just not knowing when. Value each day or 15 minutes as it is. Expectations for each day were based on no park and more goes in the good day box. Makes it a lot more enjoyable. Including not wanting or planning to do something if I couldnt or wouldnt be able to deal with the consequences of it ending up not happening due to a predictable timing-unpredictable incident.


Sure it sucks at time when all happens at the same time. Many here will know that sentiment. But those are things disney really cant magically do anything about. They're graciously enough allow using das later on in the day. More than Ild personally expect but also the only thing I think they could do.

As far as needing to visit GR at each park? It in and of itself I could see and it not per definition being a bad thing, same with options not always being the same or predictable each time for the same ride. As said I stay away from details but I was asked for a more intensive investing from my part for them to accomodate. Which I can understand from both a is-it-needed aspect as much as realising how much difference there can be per park, ride or even time of day to try to work in the way they did. Ive spend relatively a lot of time in GR/talking to them, whether compared to my total up time, ride time or general time spent in GR. But it was understandable, reasonable and big part of why I did ride and see what I did that trip.

 

[nobodies36]

What are your 'needs' 'nobodies36' ?? You did not answer Coonhound's post?

What can Disney give you besides offering the DAS that would help you?

*Anything I say is off the original topic I brought up and answering now will only perpetuate an off topic discussion. My inbox is open is you are genuinely interested*

We all understand your original point, what we don't see is how it is relevant to everything else your're saying.

And when people tell you that you need to tell Disney what accommodations you need, you respond that you're taking an FP spot from other people. Again, that is irrelevant.

Why aren't you used the FP+ times that you can keep? Instead you're lamenting over the ones you miss. The DAS is an open ended FP+, so if a ride is the most important, why not use DAS for that?

Most of your issues seem to focus on how you can be accommodated when you're not in the park. You can't, so leave that issue out of the discussion, it just clouds things.

*I wrote an answer but have deleted it before posting as answering will probably only perpetuate more questions and lead to more off topic discussions that were never relevant in the first place and only started because someone wanted to know why I have problems with FP+. My inbox is open if you are genuinely interested though no need for it here*

If anyone (else) has any advice, anything they wish to say, any comments or anything that is about me or my disability and not about the thread then please just send a personal message instead.

I just do not want to see this thread closed down by going off topic and getting too personal.

So can we please just stick to the point I made that was relevant to the thread without personal attacks (since I should and will only justify my needs to Disney/other parks):

Whilst the lawsuit seems to be about bringing the GAC back, which I don't think would be feasible as I am in the camp who believe it was coming a long time ago and the DAS was the closest alternative that would minimize abuse as much as possible. With all the bad stick the GAC got (before the abuse was made public with 'rented invalids' and such) I am hoping that my experience (being told to make FP+ reservations I knew I could not keep before even being offered the DAS) would be an extreme minority. Even if it is a minority, other posters have brought up good examples of the rigidity of FP+ for the general populous. People with disabilities will have more difficulty with FP+ than most and I hope that any future exceptionally difficult to get experiences like Anna and Elsa doesn't become synonymous with disabilities (being in the standby queue and seeing a child come in the fastpass queue meltdown and leave only do come back in later because DAS and FP+) quite like some comments I am sure most of us have heard when people saw the red GAC being shown. You are penalized financially now for not showing up to an ADR and I for one hope the FP+ never go down the way of penalized for not cancelling in enough time.

So with this in mind and thinking about the lawsuit, do you think there would still have been a lawsuit if the plaintiffs were not faced with the rigidity of FP+ and the change to DAS at the same time? Since many of the plaintiffs have not been to Disney since the DAS was introduced I would think there has to be some correlation for the fear of the new method. I cannot really comment on how different FP and FP+ is in general but can only see it being better overall and whilst the DAS certainly isn't the GAC, my experience of using a DAS while FP+ was in operation was positive. I noticed that the FP+ seemed to force people into specific queues at specific times and I felt that the FP queues were no longer to wait in (except Soarin') but the standby times were shorter than I would have expected.

I'd love to hear what specifically people with a loved one with autism feel about the rigidity vs certainty (the child knows in advance what the exact plan is and what to expect etc). Does FP+ help or hinder your situation specifically?

Was it too much change in too short of time that is worrying the plaintiffs who have not experienced the DAS yet? I know I worry with my relationship to FP+ but I don't really lose too much by changing from GAC to DAS but I do imagine that it could at least be perceived by some plaintiffs that if they did rely heavily on GAC and not got in line when it was less than 20 minute wait for example then the would be experiencing a significant loss under the new system.

I just wonder if some parents feel too overwhelmed with the two changes and that it may be more about their perception of what could happen rather than the difficulties the child would face when under the new systems. With some of the plaintiffs it sounds more about the parent than the child.

I do notice one thing- with the old FP system anyone could use them and now FP+ is linked to specific people. With no picture on GAC and one on DAS where pictured person must be present to ride then again it cannot be used by another member of the party. That is a change that both make at the same time and I wonder if this is something that both changes happening at the same time has eradicated. Some things don't seem to bother Disney (telling me to just make FP+ anyway) and yet both changes implemented at the same time seem to have been important enough to Disney. I wonder if this could have some reasoning as to why people are trying to sue.

I see no merit in the lawsuit but hope it encourages a little tweaking. At the end the GAC was a catch all for any need rather than different stamps when it first started out and that was when people wanted to abuse it. Multiple smaller accommodations (no where near what the GAC was at the end) with less abuse appeal would be perfect.

 

[Jenheartsdisney]

I'm also from Glasgow, Scotland and the local theme park (M&Ds) is fair ground sized with ageing attractions. You need to show proof that you're disabled (benefits letter or blind registration certificate) and their concession is that you and your family get to queue jump - I understand in America that won't fly because the parks there are literally a few thousand times bigger and your laws are written in a way that you can't ask for proof of disability?

The English theme parks (Alton towers, Thorpe park etc) operate either a return time like DAS or you enter the ride immediately through the exit and ride straight away - again these parks are nothing like the size of Disney (but they are bigger than our wee park) and you need to show proof of disability.

The other thing the British parks do is give your carer a free ticket, this is basically for people on middle or high disability and it's the theme parks way of washing their hands of any liability if something goes wrong - kind of "we let your carer in for free so you can't complain that we didn't help you unload from a ride".

 

[aaarcher86]

*Anything I say is off the original topic I brought up and answering now will only perpetuate an off topic discussion. My inbox is open is you are genuinely interested* *I wrote an answer but have deleted it before posting as answering will probably only perpetuate more questions and lead to more off topic discussions that were never relevant in the first place and only started because someone wanted to know why I have problems with FP+. My inbox is open if you are genuinely interested though no need for it here* If anyone (else) has any advice, anything they wish to say, any comments or anything that is about me or my disability and not about the thread then please just send a personal message instead. I just do not want to see this thread closed down by going off topic and getting too personal. So can we please just stick to the point I made that was relevant to the thread without personal attacks (since I should and will only justify my needs to Disney/other parks): Whilst the lawsuit seems to be about bringing the GAC back, which I don't think would be feasible as I am in the camp who believe it was coming a long time ago and the DAS was the closest alternative that would minimize abuse as much as possible. With all the bad stick the GAC got (before the abuse was made public with 'rented invalids' and such) I am hoping that my experience (being told to make FP+ reservations I knew I could not keep before even being offered the DAS) would be an extreme minority. Even if it is a minority, other posters have brought up good examples of the rigidity of FP+ for the general populous. People with disabilities will have more difficulty with FP+ than most and I hope that any future exceptionally difficult to get experiences like Anna and Elsa doesn't become synonymous with disabilities (being in the standby queue and seeing a child come in the fastpass queue meltdown and leave only do come back in later because DAS and FP+) quite like some comments I am sure most of us have heard when people saw the red GAC being shown. You are penalized financially now for not showing up to an ADR and I for one hope the FP+ never go down the way of penalized for not cancelling in enough time. So with this in mind and thinking about the lawsuit, do you think there would still have been a lawsuit if the plaintiffs were not faced with the rigidity of FP+ and the change to DAS at the same time? Since many of the plaintiffs have not been to Disney since the DAS was introduced I would think there has to be some correlation for the fear of the new method. I cannot really comment on how different FP and FP+ is in general but can only see it being better overall and whilst the DAS certainly isn't the GAC, my experience of using a DAS while FP+ was in operation was positive. I noticed that the FP+ seemed to force people into specific queues at specific times and I felt that the FP queues were no longer to wait in (except Soarin') but the standby times were shorter than I would have expected. I'd love to hear what specifically people with a loved one with autism feel about the rigidity vs certainty (the child knows in advance what the exact plan is and what to expect etc). Does FP+ help or hinder your situation specifically? Was it too much change in too short of time that is worrying the plaintiffs who have not experienced the DAS yet? I know I worry with my relationship to FP+ but I don't really lose too much by changing from GAC to DAS but I do imagine that it could at least be perceived by some plaintiffs that if they did rely heavily on GAC and not got in line when it was less than 20 minute wait for example then the would be experiencing a significant loss under the new system. I just wonder if some parents feel too overwhelmed with the two changes and that it may be more about their perception of what could happen rather than the difficulties the child would face when under the new systems. With some of the plaintiffs it sounds more about the parent than the child. I do notice one thing- with the old FP system anyone could use them and now FP+ is linked to specific people. With no picture on GAC and one on DAS where pictured person must be present to ride then again it cannot be used by another member of the party. That is a change that both make at the same time and I wonder if this is something that both changes happening at the same time has eradicated. Some things don't seem to bother Disney (telling me to just make FP+ anyway) and yet both changes implemented at the same time seem to have been important enough to Disney. I wonder if this could have some reasoning as to why people are trying to sue. I see no merit in the lawsuit but hope it encourages a little tweaking. At the end the GAC was a catch all for any need rather than different stamps when it first started out and that was when people wanted to abuse it. Multiple smaller accommodations (no where near what the GAC was at the end) with less abuse appeal would be perfect.

I don't know the ratio in the lawsuit, but many of the complaints I've read about the new system comes from DL goers, where FP+ hasn't been implemented. Personally, I've seen people completely overwhelmed and baffled at paper FP and FP+ when using the DAS since they've never had to worry about using either before, so I don't think it matters. And frankly, being overwhelmed with changes doesn't warrant a lawsuit so I really don't have much sympathy for that.

For my family, we enjoy FP+. Being able to schedule rides and times for things that I know my kids will want to ride during the day takes the guesswork out of it. I detested having to run to a ride, pull a FP, and be hostage to whatever time slot was available. If nothing else, we will get 3 rides or shows in. It's not terribly difficult to plan the DAS times in conjunction with FP+ times, for us. This trip will be a bit more relaxing since I don't have to get into the park at the crack of dawn to get FP for TSM or other popular rides.

It just really depends on the kids. For the kids that have a set schedule in their heads of rides and orders I think FP+ will be helpful. For people that don't know what they're kids will want to do when it'll be more difficult.

 

[SueM in MN]

I have been trying to figure out a reply - lanejudy wrote some of the things I was trying to say.

Fastpass Plus

• When booking Fastpass Plus, people make their best guess of times that will work for them. Sometimes they guess wrong or things don't work out.
• People miss their Fastpass Plus all the time for various reasons and is not a problem.
• Not using the Fastpass Plus that was booked doesn't 'deprive' anyone of getting into that attraction.
• If a guest knows ahead of time that they will 'waste' their Fastpass Plus, they can cancel it and may be able to schedule another one instead.
• If a Fastpass Plus is cancelled far enough in advance, another person might be able to get a Fastpass they would not get otherwise.
• Even if it's not cancelled, that's not a bad thing. Less people in the Fastpass line for a time period means those in the Standby (regular) line will get in faster.
• CMs at attraction might be able to give a little wiggle room at times if a guest is a few minutes late. There is no guarantee and there are so many variables that they are not going to promise it. They are more likely to allow a little wiggle room for things like shows that won't be filled or attractions that have a short wait in the regular line. The reason is that the guest would be getting in anyway, even if they didn't have a Fastpass.

DAS

• The person whose name is on the DAS doesn't need to be present to get a DAS Return Time. Someone else in their party can go to get the Return Time.
• The DAS Return Time is based on the current wait time, so knowing the current wait gives a good idea of when the DAS Return Time will be before you get it.
• The DAS Return Time doesn't have an end time - it can be used any time that day after the Return Time has arrived.

My family has been to WDW twice on long trips (more than 12 days) since the changeover to DAS. The first time was the end of October and early November 2013. Our last trip was late March, early April 2014 when it was very busy during Spring break. During the Spring vid it, our daughter was 6 weeks post a major surgery, so not fully recovered yet.

Our youngest daughter has multiple disabilities. Without going into a lot of detail, it is difficult (and some days impossible) for us to keep to any kind of schedule because things can happen without warning that mean our day needs to start later or we may be done because she is non-functional a few hours after our day started.

We also have to schedule in stretching time, medications 3 times a day which could take as little as 5 minutes or as long as 30 and feed her meals to her since she can't feed herself for a full meal.
And, we had to do a urinary catheter treatment every 3.5 to 4 hours round the clock (we are now 'spread out' to 6 hours during the night, but are still 3.5 to 4 hours during the day).
I got very good at the catheter 'thing' by the end of the trip and was able to do it in less than 15 minutes (but, we needed a bathroom with a sink; sometimes our wait for the Companion Restroom or handicapped stall was as much as 20 minutes).

It would have been very easy to say DAS and Fastpass Plus would not work for us, but we made it work and actually found it worked better for our family than the now-discontinued GAC (Guest Assistance Card). So, what did we do?

Planning which Day to do which park
We used www.touringplans.com and www.easywdw.com to figure out which was the green or red park for each day (green = best; red = busiest park).

Because our daughter has some needs that are impacted by weather, we soldo checked the long range and short range weather. AK is the hottest park and we wanted to avoid that on the hottest day (overcast was nice).

Fastpass Plus
We had used Fastpass from the time it first came out and used it as much as possible with GAC. The biggest issue we had was we never knew when we got to the park which attractions would have Fastpass available and what time they would be for and whether we would even be in the park at that point.
With Fastpass Plus, we were able to choose the times we thought would work - our best guess. We changed some the day of our visit because they just would not work that day.
Sometimes, our daughter was having a bad time, so other members of our group split up and went without her, then the people who had stayed with her went.

We used our Fastpass Plus times as kind of a 'framework schedule' and then worked in DAS Return Times and shorter attractions in between.
Since Fastpass Plus has a required time window for use and DAS just has a start time, we used the Fastpass Plus and then the DAS if we were close on time.

My Disney Experience
This was very helpful because we could see what around us had short waits (yes, some did, even during Spring break) and do those things instead of running all over the park.
We also used it to see the current wait times to help us decide which attraction to use her DAS for.

Now, with all that, we used Fastpass Plus more times each day than we used DAS. It worked well for us and helped us to at least have a schedule that we could try to work our sometimes unpredictable day into.

 

[kaytieeldr]

So with this in mind and thinking about the lawsuit, do you think there would still have been a lawsuit if the plaintiffs were not faced with the rigidity of FP+ and the change to DAS at the same time? Since many of the plaintiffs have not been to Disney since the DAS was introduced I would think there has to be some correlation for the fear of the new method.

Absolutely. People hate change.

 

[SMD]

Absolutely. People hate change.

The plaintiffs also appear to be a group of people who never used FP. So whether it was paper or FP+ I think they'd be equally miserable having to plan. Plus one of their claims is that their kids don't understand going to a ride and having to leave and come back. Collecting a paper FP isn't really different than getting a DAS return time. If they can't or won't send a runner for DAS, they wouldn't have done it for a paper FP either.

And at DLR, where you get return times at a kiosk, not the ride, most rides don't have FP anyway. Zero FL rides have it, so there is no FP queue, GACs were being let right onto the ride everywhere but Peter Pan (unless they had to wait for the IASW accessible vehicle).

And then there's the difference in how local APs tour. Before FP enforcement started, I pretty much knew that if I decided to go to the park after work, even if I got there around 3pm-4pm I wasn't going to get any FPs, because people would collect them all day to use all at once later at night. Even now, if I get there at 4pm, my FP return might not be until 8pm, and maybe I'm not looking to be in the park quite that late.

Translate that to a local AP who takes their kid to the park as a reward after school. Or maybe the kid is fixated on going to DL, and will have a meltdown at home unless he goes. With the GAC, the family can walk in the park at 4pm and go right on Indy. If they had to use FP, they might not get a return time until 7pm, risking a meltdown (so they claim).

Now personally, I'd probably just go through standby, because even if it's 30 minutes, it's still faster than waiting for the FP return. Likewise I'd probably choose to let my kid meltdown at home (because he wants to go to DL) , rather than in the park (because he doesn't want to wait). And I certainly wouldn't use the threat of a meltdown to blackmail Disney into letting my family get right to the front of the line.

But I do understand that the nature of waiting for a DAS return times, collecting FPs, and planning around time factors are a completely different way than how these families are used to touring the parks. Does that mean that they've been injured to the point of needing monetary compensation? We shall see.

 

[nobodies36]

I have been trying to figure out a reply - lanejudy wrote some of the things I was trying to say.

Fastpass Plus

• When booking Fastpass Plus, people make their best guess of times that will work for them. Sometimes they guess wrong or things don't work out.
• People miss their Fastpass Plus all the time for various reasons and is not a problem.
• Not using the Fastpass Plus that was booked doesn't 'deprive' anyone of getting into that attraction.
• If a guest knows ahead of time that they will 'waste' their Fastpass Plus, they can cancel it and may be able to schedule another one instead.
• If a Fastpass Plus is cancelled far enough in advance, another person might be able to get a Fastpass they would not get otherwise.
• Even if it's not cancelled, that's not a bad thing. Less people in the Fastpass line for a time period means those in the Standby (regular) line will get in faster.
• CMs at attraction might be able to give a little wiggle room at times if a guest is a few minutes late. There is no guarantee and there are so many variables that they are not going to promise it. They are more likely to allow a little wiggle room for things like shows that won't be filled or attractions that have a short wait in the regular line. The reason is that the guest would be getting in anyway, even if they didn't have a Fastpass.

DAS

• The person whose name is on the DAS doesn't need to be present to get a DAS Return Time. Someone else in their party can go to get the Return Time.
• The DAS Return Time is based on the current wait time, so knowing the current wait gives a good idea of when the DAS Return Time will be before you get it.
• The DAS Return Time doesn't have an end time - it can be used any time that day after the Return Time has arrived.

My family has been to WDW twice on long trips (more than 12 days) since the changeover to DAS. The first time was the end of October and early November 2013. Our last trip was late March, early April 2014 when it was very busy during Spring break. During the Spring vid it, our daughter was 6 weeks post a major surgery, so not fully recovered yet.

Our youngest daughter has multiple disabilities. Without going into a lot of detail, it is difficult (and some days impossible) for us to keep to any kind of schedule because things can happen without warning that mean our day needs to start later or we may be done because she is non-functional a few hours after our day started.

We also have to schedule in stretching time, medications 3 times a day which could take as little as 5 minutes or as long as 30 and feed her meals to her since she can't feed herself for a full meal.
And, we had to do a urinary catheter treatment every 3.5 to 4 hours round the clock (we are now 'spread out' to 6 hours during the night, but are still 3.5 to 4 hours during the day).
I got very good at the catheter 'thing' by the end of the trip and was able to do it in less than 15 minutes (but, we needed a bathroom with a sink; sometimes our wait for the Companion Restroom or handicapped stall was as much as 20 minutes).

It would have been very easy to say DAS and Fastpass Plus would not work for us, but we made it work and actually found it worked better for our family than the now-discontinued GAC (Guest Assistance Card). So, what did we do?

Planning which Day to do which park
We used www.touringplans.com and www.easywdw.com to figure out which was the green or red park for each day (green = best; red = busiest park).

Because our daughter has some needs that are impacted by weather, we soldo checked the long range and short range weather. AK is the hottest park and we wanted to avoid that on the hottest day (overcast was nice).

Fastpass Plus
We had used Fastpass from the time it first came out and used it as much as possible with GAC. The biggest issue we had was we never knew when we got to the park which attractions would have Fastpass available and what time they would be for and whether we would even be in the park at that point.
With Fastpass Plus, we were able to choose the times we thought would work - our best guess. We changed some the day of our visit because they just would not work that day.
Sometimes, our daughter was having a bad time, so other members of our group split up and went without her, then the people who had stayed with her went.

We used our Fastpass Plus times as kind of a 'framework schedule' and then worked in DAS Return Times and shorter attractions in between.
Since Fastpass Plus has a required time window for use and DAS just has a start time, we used the Fastpass Plus and then the DAS if we were close on time.

My Disney Experience
This was very helpful because we could see what around us had short waits (yes, some did, even during Spring break) and do those things instead of running all over the park.
We also used it to see the current wait times to help us decide which attraction to use her DAS for.

Now, with all that, we used Fastpass Plus more times each day than we used DAS. It worked well for us and helped us to at least have a schedule that we could try to work our sometimes unpredictable day into.

I appreciate what you and lanejudy are trying to say and I have already said I'm not going into personal details that are not relevant. I mentioned one symptom of my disability and stated it as such. I know how to best use FP+ and DAS and I have to work with the limitations I have and have been doing on a daily basis for years. I've spent a lot of time at Disney and because of multiple (linked) disabilities like your family scheduling is, and had always been, very difficult and sometimes impossible, and even in the GAC years I have spent multiple days bedridden in Disney even though I am awake as with multiple disabilities different issues can hold you back at different times. I cannot regulate me body temperature and AK can be difficult for me, inner ear issues (usually liked to low immunity problems) mean HS is out on some days as my rides are so limited we have to change plans. I didn't know this was going to turn into question time and I had to go through all my needs- even the ones that wasn't relevant to the point I tried to make in the first instance about possible future animosity if this was a standard line for anyone who isn't aided by the DAS.

On changeover day Disney told me they didn't think the DAS was suitable and they would issue one anyway until they had ironed out the kinks and had accommodations for guests spending limited park hours- I spent the money, did everything they asked, tried to make the DAS/FP+ work as best I could.

It is very easy to mistake what I was describing- easier to describe as a sudden onset sleep deprivation (hours rather than days/weeks) which can start an hour after waking or 5 hours but there is no way to tell. Add to the the basic fact that I cannot regulate my circadian sleep cycle (at all for the last 18 years) and it seems to have been taken as falls asleep in places and perhaps that it my fault because my priority of posting is never to give away too much information that could be abused now or in the future- hence my not naming the central FL theme park who has DAS like accommodations but has listened to the needs and limitations of all my disabilities and symptoms thereof and given me something else that works for me and it not a GAC equivalent. I know you are very medically aware and might be more familiar with those terms rather than my poor explanation, but if I knew there was going to be a test I might have tried harder.

I already do all I can like stay onsite and stay for 2-4 weeks at a time (I take as much medication as I can but I can only go over the max dose for the flight itself), EMH will be available if I am, go at slow times (mostly September) and only go at other times when I am going with someone else who can only go at a specific time (like last trip and the trip after this September). As well as the best one- go as often as I can.

This was never meant to be about what is and is not suitable for me because I'm limited in rides, limited in hours and limited by a dozen other factors. I didn't do Soarin' 17 times in a row so I haven't really lost that much. The only things I have said I am actually unhappy with are blatant lies CMs have told me, having an official statement that there are accommodations for people with needs that the DAS doesn't help (this is the irony, by the time I qualify for the DAS in its true sense, I had better be leaving the park or there will be bigger issues than rides and shows). Worst is the automatic judgement and jumping to conclusions when you use terms too simple and is a bit like trying to explain additional needs over and above a wheelchair.

Anyway, I understand you are trying to help but I am unwilling and unable to put the details on an open forum that people are asking because I am still dealing with this matter with Disney after it became clear that for some reason I am not getting the assistance that is offered help "for persons who are concerned the DAS Card does not meet their needs (e.g., for those whose disability limits the duration of their visit to the park or limits their choice of attractions)." It will not solve all my needs and am very much aware that they would not be able to do that anyway but I will be seeing if I can send medical evidence or speak to someone who perhaps has enough medical knowledge to conceive some of the things that are fact (and my life) outside of their experiential limitations. As soon as I say sleep- I'm judged and get 'you sleep a lot?', 'you fall asleep when you don't want to?', so you have Narcolepsy?'. When people cannot conceive that I have functioned like this for decades, then the natural response is that I must be lying or they keep claiming to understand and them making an incorrect statement. I purchased and have worn my own actigraph for the last 3 years as I got so sick of being called a liar or even a visual can really help people understand just this one disability which is a single symptom of my main disability.

That aside, it only got into that because one question seemed to lead to another- I'd thought circadian sleep/wake cycle disturbances would have been more widely known in the US as the FDA approved the first drug for it this year. I wanted to let you know that I appreciate your help and felt that I should let you know that I tried not to post to much as some of the information and too much detail vis a vie the fact that no-one went into too much detail about the GAC or verbatim conversations with Disney.

I didn't want the thread closed so felt it best to not post any personal information that isn't related to why I first posted. I appreciate the information but it isn't anything I haven't tried or already do to try to enjoy my vacations as much as possible. Although I don't post over her much I do appreciate all the work you put into this forum. I'm used to dealing with my own issues everyday and appreciate the work you put into helping people translate their needs to a Disney vacation.

 

[nobodies36]

The plaintiffs also appear to be a group of people who never used FP. So whether it was paper or FP+ I think they'd be equally miserable having to plan. Plus one of their claims is that their kids don't understand going to a ride and having to leave and come back. Collecting a paper FP isn't really different than getting a DAS return time. If they can't or won't send a runner for DAS, they wouldn't have done it for a paper FP either.

And at DLR, where you get return times at a kiosk, not the ride, most rides don't have FP anyway. Zero FL rides have it, so there is no FP queue, GACs were being let right onto the ride everywhere but Peter Pan (unless they had to wait for the IASW accessible vehicle).

And then there's the difference in how local APs tour. Before FP enforcement started, I pretty much knew that if I decided to go to the park after work, even if I got there around 3pm-4pm I wasn't going to get any FPs, because people would collect them all day to use all at once later at night. Even now, if I get there at 4pm, my FP return might not be until 8pm, and maybe I'm not looking to be in the park quite that late.

Translate that to a local AP who takes their kid to the park as a reward after school. Or maybe the kid is fixated on going to DL, and will have a meltdown at home unless he goes. With the GAC, the family can walk in the park at 4pm and go right on Indy. If they had to use FP, they might not get a return time until 7pm, risking a meltdown (so they claim).

Now personally, I'd probably just go through standby, because even if it's 30 minutes, it's still faster than waiting for the FP return. Likewise I'd probably choose to let my kid meltdown at home (because he wants to go to DL) , rather than in the park (because he doesn't want to wait). And I certainly wouldn't use the threat of a meltdown to blackmail Disney into letting my family get right to the front of the line.

But I do understand that the nature of waiting for a DAS return times, collecting FPs, and planning around time factors are a completely different way than how these families are used to touring the parks. Does that mean that they've been injured to the point of needing monetary compensation? We shall see.

I'm not great with US law and the ADA confuses me enough, but I was under the impression that it was more of a 'publicity stunt', even to the point of trying to get the GAC back, but I had no idea that these people would actually be seeking a monetary value as well! How do they expect that would be quantifiable? Forgive my ignorance, are the seeking the GAC back and money or just the money?

I'm actually shocked that they want money! The money wont solve anything so it just sounds so childish: 'Meh, you upset me and since you have loads of money I want some'. I thought it was about parents advocating for their children even in the misguided way of wanting something better for their child i.e. GAC when Disney changed to DAS, but it sounds more like a bunch of greedy people using their wonderful gifts of children for money!

I take it the courts are just going through the motions before throwing it out?

 

[SMD]

I'm not great with US law and the ADA confuses me enough, but I was under the impression that it was more of a 'publicity stunt', even to the point of trying to get the GAC back, but I had no idea that these people would actually be seeking a monetary value as well! How do they expect that would be quantifiable? Forgive my ignorance, are the seeking the GAC back and money or just the money?

I'm actually shocked that they want money! The money wont solve anything so it just sounds so childish: 'Meh, you upset me and since you have loads of money I want some'. I thought it was about parents advocating for their children even in the misguided way of wanting something better for their child i.e. GAC when Disney changed to DAS, but it sounds more like a bunch of greedy people using their wonderful gifts of children for money!

I take it the courts are just going through the motions before throwing it out?

You can't really sue to make someone do something. In a civil suit you're saying that they owe you something because of what they did, or in this case didn't do for you.

If the court or jury agrees that Disney is wrong, then the court or jury would decide how much, if anything the plaintiffs are owed. Obvious Disney would most likely change their policies, to avoid paying more damages to more people going forward.

I've highlighted the parts where they're asking for money.

WHEREFORE, Plaintiff D.H., by and through J.H. as his next friend, parent and court-appointed guardian, prays that this Court adjudicate this dispute and enter an Order:

• Enjoining Defendant to cease the practices which are causing discrimination against Plaintiff on account of D.H.’s disability; and
• Enjoining Defendant to reasonably modify its policies, practices, and procedures to afford Plaintiff with an opportunity to experience Disney’s goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations; and
• Establishing Court-approved remedial measures that Disney must implement, to prevent Disney from further discriminating against Plaintiff when they visit the Disney Parks; and
• Establishing Court-approved requirements for information dissemination about Disney’s remedial measures and modified policies, to prevent Disney from further deterring Plaintiff from visiting Disney Parks as a result of anticipated discrimination; and
and
• Establishing a monitoring program to ensure Disney’s compliance with the Court’s Orders; and
• Awarding reasonable attorney’s fees as may be determined by the Court in favor of Plaintiff and against Disney; and
• Awarding reasonable litigation costs as may be determined by the Court in favor of Plaintiff and against Disney; and
• Such other relief as this Court may find just and equitable.

That last line is where they ask for the big bucks.

 

[jcb]

You can't really sue to make someone do something.

Perhaps I misunderstand what you are saying but of course you can sue to make someone do something. It is called an injunction. It discrimination law, the employer can be ordered to reinstate a fired employee. Disney could be ordered to make some kind of modification over and above DAS.

As to money damages, I've address the potential statutory damages they could recovery here: http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=51879641&postcount=249

 

[CPT Tripss]

If they prevail in the lawsuit, Disney will likely have to pay their attorney. IIRC the other case brought against Disney was settled for $10,000 to $20,000 per named plaintiff and the attorney got $1.5 million.

 

[SMD]

Perhaps I misunderstand what you are saying but of course you can sue to make someone do something. It is called an injunction. It discrimination law, the employer can be ordered to reinstate a fired employee. Disney could be ordered to make some kind of modification over and above DAS.

As to money damages, I've address the potential statutory damages they could recovery here: http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=51879641&postcount=249

You're usually not suing to get your job back, you're suing for the money you would have earned if you weren't terminated.

 

[SMD]

Here's another count and the damages they're seeking. I'm not saying this isn't standard lawsuit stuff, just pointing out what some of the text means.

WHEREFORE, Plaintiff A.B., by and through M.B. as A.B.’s next friend, parent and natural guardian, prays that this Court adjudicate this dispute and enter an Order:

• Finding that Disney negligently inflicted emotional distress upon A.B.; and
• Finding such infliction to have caused damages to A.B.; and
• Entering judgment for Plaintiff A.B. in the amount of such
damages; and
• Awarding reasonable litigation costs as may be determined by the
Court in favor of Plaintiff and against Disney; and
• Awarding prejudgment interest; and
• Such other relief as this Court may find just and equitable.