Shoe Fitting Fee?

[tvguy]

A camera shop here at least 10 years ago started charging a "consulting fee" if you came in to shop and did not buy anything. This was in response to a surge in people coming in to take advantage of their expertise, then buying their cameras online. Totally understandable in my book for those shoes since you are getting something for value from them..

 

[cabanafrau]

I do think the fee should be applied to the purchase of shoes.

I also find it absolutely understandable why they weren't onboard for trying out tap shoes on a tap board. Who wants to buy new shoes that are scuffed/marked from somebody else trying them out (or didn't like the way they felt/changed their mind about dancing)?

Costs money to operate a brick and mortar, carry an inventory, staff to run it, etc. If fit and feel aren't a priority, order online, cross your fingers you either love the fit and function or the online retailer allow returns.

 

[Jennasis]

It's an understandable policy. I haven't figured out why our local tack shops haven't implemented this for riding helmet and boot fittings.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

because there will be simply people that take advantage of them for their professional service

I'm sure that's their intent but by applying it to just trying on the shoe in general goes against the idea of them having the expert knowledge. Who wants to be dinged for just putting their foot in a shoe regardless of even knowing what size you could even be?

I already have enough issues IRL with normal shoes being a size 6 1/2 but I can be a size 6, 6 1/2, or 7 depending on the shoe, one or two of my shoes are wide width when normally I have more narrow feet. That's just for normal shoes. It would be so much worse for specialty shoes such as the OP was talking about. So I get it but there's no knowledge being imparted by them, no effort involved when a customer is seeing a shoe and finding their size and putting it on. I could see if you found the shoe but were needing assistance by means of the fit by a sales associate who goes over how it's supposed to fit based on the type of shoe you have on but just trying on a shoe period is different. And that basic act of putting your foot in a shoe also doesn't mean you're going to purchase from online.

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm sure that's their intent but by applying it to just trying on the shoe in general goes against the idea of them having the expert knowledge. Who wants to be dinged for just putting their foot in a shoe regardless of even knowing what size you could even be?

I already have enough issues IRL with normal shoes being a size 6 1/2 but I can be a size 6, 6 1/2, or 7 depending on the shoe, one or two of my shoes are wide width when normally I have more narrow feet. That's just for normal shoes. It would be so much worse for specialty shoes such as the OP was talking about. So I get it but there's no knowledge being imparted by them, no effort involved when a customer is seeing a shoe and finding their size and putting it on. I could see if you found the shoe but were needing assistance by means of the fit by a sales associate who goes over how it's supposed to fit based on the type of shoe you have on but just trying on a shoe period is different. And that basic act of putting your foot in a shoe also doesn't mean you're going to purchase from online.

There are costs associated with that store having the building for you to walk in, staff simply to run the physical space, and carrying the inventory for you to try on. If these stores are generally competing against other merchants providing merchandise in the same category and bearing the same costs to do so paying for simply trying on a shoe seems over the top. If much of their competition is online and able to provide same or similar merchandise cheaper because they're not paying for the building, the staff and the inventory why would they want to risk providing those things for competitors who have the advantage over them on price because they don't provide the same?

Brick and mortar is on life support in many ways. It's incredible how tricky it is to shop online for so many things that I wouldn't have even guessed. let alone more specialized items where fit can be key. I dread the idea of how much more time consuming and frustrating shopping for so many things will be if we erode our in-person options even further. In the past several months I've spent way too much time and aggravation simply to replace a crock pot and sheers for one of our bathrooms when my brick and mortar excursions repeatedly resulted in me running headlong into the bricks time and time again; and bad descriptions, shipping mistakes and inventory problems online. All I was looking for was a simple, large capacity slow cooker with no bells and whistles(item still widely produced for sale) and white crushed voile sheers 45" to 50" long. I'd have gladly jogged 3 old school size suburban shopping malls if I could have guaranteed I'd have completed the run with both objectives bought and paid for.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

There are costs associated with that store having the building for you to walk in, staff simply to run the physical space, and carrying the inventory for you to try on. If these stores are generally competing against other merchants providing merchandise in the same category and bearing the same costs to do so paying for simply trying on a shoe seems over the top. If much of their competition is online and able to provide same or similar merchandise cheaper because they're not paying for the building, the staff and the inventory why would they want to risk providing those things for competitors who have the advantage over them on price because they don't provide the same?

Brick and mortar is on life support in many ways. It's incredible how tricky it is to shop online for so many things that I wouldn't have even guessed. let alone more specialized items where fit can be key. I dread the idea of how much more time consuming and frustrating shopping for so many things will be if we erode our in-person options even further. In the past several months I've spent way too much time and aggravation simply to replace a crock pot and sheers for one of our bathrooms when my brick and mortar excursions repeatedly resulted in me running headlong into the bricks time and time again; and bad descriptions, shipping mistakes and inventory problems online. All I was looking for was a simple, large capacity slow cooker with no bells and whistles(item still widely produced for sale) and white crushed voile sheers 45" to 50" long. I'd have gladly jogged 3 old school size suburban shopping malls if I could have guaranteed I'd have completed the run with both objectives bought and paid for.

I'm aware that there are costs to run a store..that's a bit like captain obvious isn't it? Not sure anyone needs to have a detailed explanation here on that one.

I take it you missed my first comment, I said I didn't have a problem with the policy itself, rather the general part of it all, that it was too rigid. None of that is related to the detailed discussion you have responded back to me about, especially since I said I wasn't against the policy itself, more it's broad application, which is trying on any shoes regardless of any assistance, regardless of anything meant you had a fee attached.

To apply it to just trying on shoes gives me inklings that they are unlikely to have customers who view their expertise as worthy enough to actually shop there. If I were them I would work first and foremost on providing better tailored service such that people knew they were the place to go above anywhere else. Many businesses 15+ years ago resisted online shopping in that context usually price matching, eventually many realized that would end up costing them more business than if they got with the program.

And while I don't need to really spell it out not all policies that stores come up with end up working out in the end, most especially when they are too strict.

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm aware that there are costs to run a store..that's a bit like captain obvious isn't it? Not sure anyone needs to have a detailed explanation here on that one.

I take it you missed my first comment, I said I didn't have a problem with the policy itself, rather the general part of it all, that it was too rigid. None of that is related to the detailed discussion you have responded back to me about, especially since I said I wasn't against the policy itself, more it's broad application, which is trying on any shoes regardless of any assistance, regardless of anything meant you had a fee attached.

To apply it to just trying on shoes gives me inklings that they are unlikely to have customers who view their expertise as worthy enough to actually shop there. If I were them I would work first and foremost on providing better tailored service such that people knew they were the place to go above anywhere else. Many businesses 15+ years ago resisted online shopping in that context usually price matching, eventually many realized that would end up costing them more business than if they got with the program.

And while I don't need to really spell it out not all policies that stores come up with end up working out in the end, most especially when they are too strict.

Apologies if my response was too detailed for your taste.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Apologies if my response was too detailed for your taste.

No worries, but I'm sure you understand what I was getting at. I worked in retail for more than 8 years across a variety of stores. Dealing with customers can be exhausting for sure, but a blanket policy such that the OP was talking about isn't related to the costs of doing business. It's a cop out (not you, talking about the store).

 

[leebee]

I'm surprised they apply this to tap shoes, soft ballet slippers, etc. I can see it with pointe shoes, which must be fitted by a trained fitter; an appointment typically takes 45-60 minutes, maybe longer if the dancer has a hard-to-fit foot. DD was fitted several times over the years as her foot grew and changed shape, but after that initial "new shoe" purchase, we'd order multiple pairs of point shoes online (until her foot changed shape again, hahaha). However, unless you are looking for a professional-quality tap shoe, there are many "good" brands of tap shoes available online. I'd think charging a fitting fee for tap shoes would discourage business.

 

[cabanafrau]

No worries, but I'm sure you understand what I was getting at. I worked in retail for more than 8 years across a variety of stores. Dealing with customers can be exhausting for sure, but a blanket policy such that the OP was talking about isn't related to the costs of doing business. It's a cop out (not you, talking about the store).

Not to be churlish, but actually I disagree with what you're suggesting, which I did mention in my previous response.

I'm extremely doubtful that this store came up with this policy simply to put up the hackles of prospective customers just because they thought they could. Rather I believe they did so to avoid bearing the costs for online competition by providing free inventory for competitors' customers to come in and try on and avoid the hassle of guesswork when ordering online.

No professional retail experience to offer, however as the mother of two former dancers familiar with the quirks of fitting various size/styles of dance shoes I've spent enough time, $$$$ and miles chasing down dance shoes to understand where this store is very likely coming from -- a place that likely translates to other specialty goods based on responses in this very thread.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Not to be churlish, but actually I disagree with what you're suggesting, which I did mention in my previous response.

I'm extremely doubtful that this store came up with this policy simply to put up the hackles of prospective customers just because they thought they could. Rather I believe they did so to avoid bearing the costs for online competition by providing free inventory for competitors' customers to come in and try on and avoid the hassle of guesswork when ordering online.

No professional retail experience to offer, however as the mother of two former dancers familiar with the quirks of fitting various size/styles of dance shoes I've spent enough time, $$$$ and miles chasing down dance shoes to understand where this store is very likely coming from -- a place that likely translates to other specialty goods based on responses in this very thread.

OP already stated the store was trying to combat online shopping. The comments towards the knowledge of fitting shoes is what I was responding to. If people are shopping online in the end they don't value your expertise knowledge enough to shop there (it's quite convenient to walk out the store with the shoes in hand for instance) and if you're applying a fee for a customer who merely puts on a shoe that means you also don't value your own knowledge enough. You're not providing any specific service to the customer with having a broad policy such that the OP was talking about. In other words this policy is not really connected to this idea that the store is providing such a tailored, specialized experience when the fee is applied the way they are applying it nor are you exerting costs (such as employee related costs) if the employee isn't even involved (or isn't doing much at all).

If you're looking to combat online sales then things like price matching (to a point), rewards programs (that encourage repeat buying as needed) and more are likely to maintain more sales in store than run off more customers with a fairly off-putting policy. Like I said many companies already got with the program. This store could eventually find themselves out of business purely because they didn't know the public has moved on in ways of shopping. You don't survive off of just a few loyal customers.

99% of the time I buy clothes and shoes in person, I don't like shopping online, I'm not advocating that people should shop online in lieu of a specialized store. A rhetorical comment but I'm not sure you would be inclined to pay $15 every time your children went to get new shoes when all they did was put their foot in the shoe. The store has a product people need but clearly they aren't valued enough to keep people captive to their particular store. The OP gets a 10% discount for the company their husband works for which is now worth less with the fee. It's possible that theater company may opt to go elsewhere should enough complaints file in about the fee.

 

[DisneyHardin]

I understand the fee. Last time I was in the running store getting new tennis shoes, there was a couple and the wife had the salesman bring out at least 20 different pair of shoes for her to try on. She finally found a pair she liked and I heard her say to the husband when the salesman walked away "now that we know which ones fit the best, I will just order them online". Luckily the husband realized how crappy that was to the salesman and he insisted they just go ahead and buy the ones she liked at the running store. I imagine the same kind of thing happens a lot at a dance shoe store too.

 

[Suger Mag]

Dance shoes (ballet slippers, tap etc) can come in a variety of styles and do not always follow street shoe sizing. So trying them on if you are not sure of your size and style is important for a good fit. Pointe shoes which are a whole different level of fitting needs and should always be done by someone knowledgeable.

But shoppers are ruthless. I was a dance mom and used to help out at the dance supply store associated with our studio. People have no shame about taking your time to try on multiple shoes and then snap a pic of the style number and leave to shop online to save a few dollars. We have even had people attempt to return the dance shoes they bought online and did not fit. We talked about adding a fitting fee/discount to address the issue, but the store closed before we could, just too hard to compete with online.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Dance shoes (ballet slippers, tap etc) can come in a variety of styles and do not always follow street shoe sizing. So trying them on if you are not sure of your size and style is important for a good fit. Pointe shoes which are a whole different level of fitting needs and should always be done by someone knowledgeable.

But shoppers are ruthless. I was a dance mom and used to help out at the dance supply store associated with our studio. People have no shame about taking your time to try on multiple shoes and then snap a pic of the style number and leave to shop online to save a few dollars. We have even had people attempt to return the dance shoes they bought online and did not fit. We talked about adding a fitting fee/discount to address the issue, but the store closed before we could, just too hard to compete with online.

In terms of shoe stores I worked at DSW. It was nutty how people would bring in their shoes they wore for long enough that the wear and tear was bad and expected replacement/refunds. Of course shoes that weren't sold by DSW were attempted as well.

And it was my job (without any commissions attached to it) to connect with the customers and find out basically their life stories on why they were shopping there and what they were shopping for. And with a headset on that your managers would start grilling you through your ear piece on what you found out. It was usually made to feel like your fault when someone didn't purchase something. I assume they stopped that practice when online became really big but in fairness it's a tad different than the specialty store being spoken about as I was there when DSW was just getting their online store and they pushed heavily towards using it.

In any case I don't think stores can compete with online these days, they hardly could 10+ years ago, especially when you see big name places go left and right. Their goals should be to keep as much sales in store as possible instead of trying to prevent online shopping, that's a losing battle and they'll exert more effort than if they try to keep the appeal in store higher than online.

 

[cabanafrau]

OP already stated the store was trying to combat online shopping. The comments towards the knowledge of fitting shoes is what I was responding to. If people are shopping online in the end they don't value your expertise knowledge enough to shop there (it's quite convenient to walk out the store with the shoes in hand for instance) and if you're applying a fee for a customer who merely puts on a shoe that means you also don't value your own knowledge enough. You're not providing any specific service to the customer with having a broad policy such that the OP was talking about. In other words this policy is not really connected to this idea that the store is providing such a tailored, specialized experience when the fee is applied the way they are applying it nor are you exerting costs (such as employee related costs) if the employee isn't even involved (or isn't doing much at all).

If you're looking to combat online sales then things like price matching (to a point), rewards programs (that encourage repeat buying as needed) and more are likely to maintain more sales in store than run off more customers with a fairly off-putting policy. Like I said many companies already got with the program. This store could eventually find themselves out of business purely because they didn't know the public has moved on in ways of shopping. You don't survive off of just a few loyal customers.

99% of the time I buy clothes and shoes in person, I don't like shopping online, I'm not advocating that people should shop online in lieu of a specialized store. A rhetorical comment but I'm not sure you would be inclined to pay $15 every time your children went to get new shoes when all they did was put their foot in the shoe. The store has a product people need but clearly they aren't valued enough to keep people captive to their particular store. The OP gets a 10% discount for the company their husband works for which is now worth less with the fee. It's possible that theater company may opt to go elsewhere should enough complaints file in about the fee.

I stand by my very first line of my initial response:

"I do think the fee should be applied to the purchase of shoes."

My suspicion is this store is not looking to impose overtly strict policies and drive business away. I think they are boxed in by market conditions and looking to blunt the onslaught of those who come in simply to use their merchandise as a showroom for online retailers. The responses within this thread suggest others have experiences that cause them to concur. In order to not offend your preference for brevity and succinctness I must leave it at that.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I stand by my very first line of my initial response:

"I do think the fee should be applied to the purchase of shoes."

My suspicion is this store is not looking to impose overtly strict policies and drive business away. I think they are boxed in by market conditions and looking to blunt the onslaught of those who come in simply to use their merchandise as a showroom for online retailers. The responses within this thread suggest others have experiences that cause them to concur. In order to not offend your preference for brevity and succinctness I must leave it at that.

We're talking past each other it would seem this was my first comment on the thread which appears you missed:

I can understand their policy but wouldn't shop there for specialty shoes because it's too rigid of a policy covering too broad of situations. TBH it probably would make me more inclined to shop online as opposed to in store even though that's the direct opposite of their goal.

Simply put we don't disagree at all about the fee. You stated it should be on the purchase of shoes, I didn't disagree (I never negated that in my comments). Repeatedly I said I disagreed about just trying on shoes and a fee charged, which is the application this store is using. It would appear the whole time you've argued against something I didn't even say lol

So to repeat for the nth time (because I'm not quoting the multiple comments where I explicitly said what my problem was with it which was putting a foot in a shoe period=a fee), my issue was about a fee assessed the way the OP described it "Yes, if he tries on any shoes and doesn't buy, he would pay the fee."

I suspect that's a turn off to many customers who don't want to incur a fee for putting their foot in a shoe even if they had every intention to purchase, how many times do we go out shopping but don't find what we're looking for, or a shoe doesn't fit, or a million other reasons outside of always intending to shop online. FWIW I'm not even sure legally (ETA: well more practically) speaking how a store applies this fee should someone actually take them seriously as in how are they prepared to collect the fee charged to a non-paying customer.

Pretty sure we've said enough to each other but suffice to say again we never disagreed about the actual fee being charged

 

[cabanafrau]

We're talking past each other it would seem this was my first comment on the thread which appears you missed:



Simply put we don't disagree at all about the fee. You stated it should be on the purchase of shoes, I didn't disagree (I never negated that in my comments). Repeatedly I said I disagreed about just trying on shoes and a fee charged, which is the application this store is using. It would appear the whole time you've argued against something I didn't even say lol

So to repeat for the nth time (because I'm not quoting the multiple comments where I explicitly said what my problem was with it which was putting a foot in a shoe period=a fee), my issue was about a fee assessed the way the OP described it "Yes, if he tries on any shoes and doesn't buy, he would pay the fee."

I suspect that's a turn off to many customers who don't want to incur a fee for putting their foot in a shoe even if they had every intention to purchase, how many times do we go out shopping but don't find what we're looking for, or a shoe doesn't fit, or a million other reasons outside of always intending to shop online. FWIW I'm not even sure legally (ETA: well more practically) speaking how a store applies this fee should someone actually take them seriously as in how are they prepared to collect the fee charged to a non-paying customer.

Pretty sure we've said enough to each other but suffice to say again we never disagreed about the actual fee being charged

I have made every good faith effort to comply with your stated preference for succinctness, so I shall save you the effort of repeating yourself "for the nth time" and composing yet another screed explaining to me what I said and what I meant.

I disagree with your opinion, as I have previously stated. I support the store creating the fee to prevent simply serving as a showroom for online retailers. My suspicion is that the store in fact would reserve the right to apply the fee at their discretion in certain circumstances, which I won't belabor here. I do not consider this specialty dance shop analogous to DSW and don't find your retail experience in that regard compelling argument to change my opinion in this situation.

In the event I have missed the mark yet again:

I disagree.
Fees good.
DSW does not equal specialty dance shop.
Brick and mortar serve important functions.
Specialty retailers gotta eat too.

 

[Magical2017]

For specialty shoes, I'd be okay with that. If they did not have my size, I could order from the store and pick up the shoes later. I'd want my $15 applied to my purchase. I would not shop there for regular everyday shoes.

The shoe industry is not the only industry facing this issue. There are many other examples, including travel agencies. The agent works his or her butt off to price something, and then a customer finds a deal that is $10 less and books on their own or online. I can see them charging an agency fee whether you book or not just so you are not wasting the TAs time, so I understand why other stores might do this.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

Some running shops have started talking about this. Most will fit you for free without any obligation to buy. They usually have digital equipment to analyze your feet, a special treadmill setup to examine your gait and strike style, they’ll watch you walk, they discuss your needs and goals, and then you spend the next hour trying on 10+ pairs of shoes that they dig out from the back. I’ve even had sock recommendations and recovery shoes included in my free consultation. I’ve known people to go through all of this just to leave empty handed and buy online where they can get a discount.

 

[NotUrsula]

FWIW, we drive 10 hours RT to a skate fitter to have DD's skate boots fitted, and we are not the only people in our area that do, even though we have a local figure skating shop here that carries her boot brand (we did use them initially, but switched to the out-of-town shop as she got more advanced.)

We could actually buy the boots directly from the importer (which is where the store sources them, and they are actually a bit closer than the shop we go to), but the service at this store is so good that it's worth the markup and the cost of the trip once a year. (They actually went out of business for awhile when they lost their lease, and the owner figured he'd just retire, but so many customers begged him to reopen in a new location that he did. We actually violated an out-of-town city travel curfew to go to an appointment during the lockdown; it was really eerie being the only customer in the store, as they were only opening for fitting appointments. Sadly he passed away a couple of months ago, but his daughter now runs the shop.)

This store actually does not charge a separate fitting fee for boots or for punches & heat-molding (it's part of the markup); but young competitive skaters really can't easily buy online because of growth changes, so the only market that is reliably served online is adult skaters, who very seldom are buying top-of-the-line boots suited for big jumps and skating 25 hours a week. (When boots cost $1K you really want to get them right on the first try, because you can't return them once the blades have been mounted, or if they've been punched.) I guess they figure that they can live with losing that business, but I think that they seldom do if the person skated locally as a child, because people love them so much they go back even decades later.

I would think that any fitting fee charged should be waived if you buy. I can easily see people buying just one pair of dance shoes from the local dealer and buying additional pairs online, especially for pointe shoes, which wear out so quickly, and that seems a good middle ground. (That's really not an option we generally have for skates; almost no skater has multiple pairs of good skates at that price, though they may keep a past-their-prime pair as an emergency backup.)

I will cop to buying blades online; I usually order them directly from the UK if the exchange rate is favorable, and because they are being sold for export, I don't have to pay the VAT on them. DD has finally stopped growing, and can now usually keep the same set of blades through 2 sets of boots. (There is a very lively used blade market for child-sized blades, as parents try to recoup some of the cost of quickly outgrown skates.) Our local skate tech mounts them for her.

I do agree that loyalty programs are generally the best bang for the buck retention tactic for brick & mortar stores, particularly specialty dealers. If you develop a real relationship with them for important (and expensive!) equipment, you'll keep going back because you trust them to get it right.