Sitting with kids on the plane

[kaytieeldr]

Here is the crux of my issue, just because the goverment hasn't legislation on the issue doesn't mean its still a good idea, just means there have not been enough reportable problems to decide about a new policy, however if you still keep putting kids on the wrong plane,

You know, more adults get on wrong planes than unaccompanied minors get put on the wrong planes. Aside from that, the child is supposed to be accompanied by a responsible adult - parent or guardian - until the airline takes over to escort the child down the jetway onto the plane. In the rare case/cases where an UM boards the wrong plane, surely their responsible adult can't be blameless.

 

[kaytieeldr]

lastly I thank notUrsula for cutting me some slack, We have a 2 and a 4 year old daughter, and still fell that 5 is way too young...and infact maybe as old as 10. I would concede that 17 was alittle foolish, however there are responsible 16 year old drivers out there, yet many states are looking to raise the age limit to 18.

Trying this again. Driving a motor vehicle is in no way comparable to being a passenger on an airplane.

I will leave you with this. I have taken care of a child in my ER who had a violent adjustment disorder where the child had a history of comments regarding killing children, had actually held knives to his younger siblings, he was being managed at home by parents that indeed needed to be managed by other adults.......the kid was 7. Well within the airlines policies of traveling alone, would you want him on your plane?

And, we're back once again to responsible/irresponsible ADULTS. An adult who would put this child on a plane alone - or even fly with them - is behaving with grave irresponsibility and a huge lack of consideration for the safety of other passengers.

 

[bavaria]

Here is the crux of my issue, just because the goverment hasn't legislation on the issue doesn't mean its still a good idea, just means there have not been enough reportable problems to decide about a new policy,

I find it very sad (as well as disturbing) that you think so little of the abilities of American young people that you would truly come here and advocate this. I have yet to read any rational or reasonable argument on this thread (or this website) to support such a decision.

Around the world young people take on responsibilities such as work, or volunteer efforts, or train for something akin to your own profession through organizations such as St John Ambulance. They do so from when they enter what Americans call the 'tween' years quite often, and turn into capable, responsible adults.

Whenever I read here I do worry about many of the adults who seem to be incapble of making a simple decision for themselves, or who have fears which seem out of proportion with reality. Such a legislation would certainly ensure that your country is populated with another generation of even more fearful and irresponsible adults.

Again, as an outsider, I cannot believe that you think so little of your countrymates and their children to suggest such a thing.

 

[scuba]

Trying this again. Driving a motor vehicle is in no way comparable to being a passenger on an airplane.

And, we're back once again to responsible/irresponsible ADULTS. An adult who would put this child on a plane alone - or even fly with them - is behaving with grave irresponsibility and a huge lack of consideration for the safety of other passengers.

So we need a law mandating everyone be responsible. Look you realy have me all wrong, and hopefully this will end this thread. I'm not writing congress, no senate letters from this house. I'm not picketting in front of Airtran or Delta. I am however advocating for responsibility. about the irresponsible parent putting an irresponsible child on the plane...what can we do about that?. I'm againts adults behaving badly, for the most part we have laws for that, laws about being drunk in public........I'm an advocate for responsibility. The irresponsible adult putting a child on a plane like I described in my last post might right now be booking a flight for this child to see his Grandma in Oklahoma.....I hope some of you all can feel that this could be a plausible problem...right?

With that said, I have a change in heart, not that anyone rally cares I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who happens to be a .......flight attendant, actually she is a respiratory therapist in My ER as well, but moonlights as a "major" airline flight attendant.....the result, over 40 children have been on her aircraft this year, she most certainly told me that she was responsible for them but in no way did it affect her duties aboard the aircraft.........she has NEVER had "1" problem.........huh?, didn't see that coming She actually enjoys it........she said usually the kids flying alone are so well adjusted. In addition, the 5 year olds flying alone are so astronomically rare she doesn't even consider it a possiblity. Katie(funny I know) said the average of most of the kids flying alone ws about
12ish

With that said, I've asked our best friends, Mom, Dad, fellow co-workers and yet to find someone who agrees with your point of view about letting their children alone on the a plane........several have gone on to be productive and don't seem to to be suffering from any developmental problems. One just recently started rock climbing, that don't seem to be too sheltered. I don't think that my reasonings are really that irrational because most "I" know share them, my aquaintances don't seem irrational. Of course one of my closest work aquaintance I called actually presented the most damaging evidence to me supporting your point of view, darn flight attendants...so I part with, "do what you will with your own children", still just doesn't seem like a good idea to "me". I'll see myself out......regards scuba....P.S can we talk Disney Now?...back at the WDW, after our cruise Feb,4th 2010. We booked our airline seats already.....together!

 

[bavaria]

Whatever happened to PARENTS being responsible? That is why these threads go on for 20 pages before being locked; some parents want everyone else to take responsibility for their chlidren without taking it themselves.

And I thought that there was a fear of America turning into a 'nanny state' with too much regulation? Are common sense and personal responsibility so lacking that they need to be regulated?

 

[crashbb]

Whatever happened to PARENTS being responsible? That is why these threads go on for 20 pages before being locked; some parents want everyone else to take responsibility for their chlidren without taking it themselves.

And I thought that there was a fear of America turning into a 'nanny state' with too much regulation? Are common sense and personal responsibility so lacking that they need to be regulated?

When my shirt tells me not to iron it while wearing it and my bag of peanuts says "WARNING may contain peanuts", then yes, common sense and personal responsibility are clearly lacking.

 

[bavaria]

You had to bring up peanuts.... Lewisc and I spent months back and forth via PM while I went shopping in American airports for 'safe' non-nut products. It seems that almost everything is labelled 'may be processed in a facility which may handle nuts' which to me means 'we refuse to take responsibility and provide factual information to our customers and instead just want to CYA from a big lawsuit'.

The world is not a 'safer' place if it means that people can no longer think for themselves.

 

[kaytieeldr]

With that said, I have a change in heart, not that anyone rally cares I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who happens to be a .......flight attendant, actually she is a respiratory therapist in My ER as well, but moonlights as a "major" airline flight attendant.....the result, over 40 children have been on her aircraft this year, she most certainly told me that she was responsible for them but in no way did it affect her duties aboard the aircraft.........she has NEVER had "1" problem.........huh?, didn't see that coming She actually enjoys it........she said usually the kids flying alone are so well adjusted. In addition, the 5 year olds flying alone are so astronomically rare she doesn't even consider it a possiblity. Katie(funny I know) said the average of most of the kids flying alone ws about
12ish

With that said, I've asked our best friends, Mom, Dad, fellow co-workers and yet to find someone who agrees with your point of view about letting their children alone on the a plane........several have gone on to be productive and don't seem to to be suffering from any developmental problems. One just recently started rock climbing, that don't seem to be too sheltered. I don't think that my reasonings are really that irrational because most "I" know share them, my aquaintances don't seem irrational. Of course one of my closest work aquaintance I called actually presented the most damaging evidence to me supporting your point of view, darn flight attendants...so I part with, "do what you will with your own children", still just doesn't seem like a good idea to "me". I'll see myself out......regards scuba....P.S can we talk Disney Now?...back at the WDW, after our cruise Feb,4th 2010. We booked our airline seats already.....together!

Thank you for keeping an open mind and realizing that while something may not be right for you, or you may not be comfortable with a relatively common practice (thanks, scuba's friend Katie! ), that same thing/policy is perfectly acceptable for other people . I would like to point out that those of us who've been arguing with you well understand that you would not allow your children to fly unaccompanied and we have NO issue with that.

 

[maxiesmom]

But yes, I felt comfortable that the other gentleman (who had told me quite nicely when I had asked him about switching so that I could be in the same row that he really needed a window seat because of airsickness and since I was in an aisle, that wouldn't work as well for him--fair enough, I had no problem with that) would have watched out for my son if that had been the case.

I have to be honest. I wouldn't feel that I would owe another passanger any kind of explanation on why I always book an aisle seat, and wouldn't switch with them if they asked me to move to a widow or middle seat. It was nice that that man offered that up on his own, but you really can't expect strangers to give you a run down of their medical or emotional history. If that means that someone gives me the stink eye for not switching, so be it.

 

[acpalmer]

I have to be honest. I wouldn't feel that I would owe another passanger any kind of explanation on why I always book an aisle seat, and wouldn't switch with them if they asked me to move to a widow or middle seat. It was nice that that man offered that up on his own, but you really can't expect strangers to give you a run down of their medical or emotional history. If that means that someone gives me the stink eye for not switching, so be it.

I never said he owed it to me. He offered it up and because he had been friendly and open in the first place, when he offered to help with my son, I believed him. The fact that he was polite, as opposed to the person who answered by politely worded request with "H*ll No!!" meant that I felt more comfortable with him. I never said I expected it nor did I say he owed it to me. I gave the information that he had already been friendly as an explanation for why I felt comfortable with my son in that row. I can't find anywhere in my post that I said it was expected or owed...can you point out where that is so that I know why you felt a need to jump all over me about it?

 

[NHdisneylover]

Thank you for keeping an open mind and realizing that while something may not be right for you, or you may not be comfortable with a relatively common practice (thanks, scuba's friend Katie! ), that same thing/policy is perfectly acceptable for other people . I would like to point out that those of us who've been arguing with you well understand that you would not allow your children to fly unaccompanied and we have NO issue with that.

scuba--I just think what kaytieeldr said bears repeating

I never said he owed it to me. He offered it up and because he had been friendly and open in the first place, when he offered to help with my son, I believed him. The fact that he was polite, as opposed to the person who answered by politely worded request with "H*ll No!!" meant that I felt more comfortable with him. I never said I expected it nor did I say he owed it to me. I gave the information that he had already been friendly as an explanation for why I felt comfortable with my son in that row. I can't find anywhere in my post that I said it was expected or owed...can you point out where that is so that I know why you felt a need to jump all over me about it?

So, if this man was friendly all along, and the female passenger was rude, why did you start of by giving her instructions about how to help your DS with his meds instead of asking the man if he would help? ALso, you said early you started telling the woman what to do if he needed help. Did you mean you asked her if she was willing to help and then proceed with instructions? I am actually quite baffled here Not trying to give you a hard time just trying to fit in all the pieces to see how this was simply requesting help and not being pushy about your DS's health concerns; I must be pretty dense as I am still not getting it It does sound like he (and you) had quite a day

 

[duffy]

Yep, asked nicely and politely if she would be willing to trade seats with me (I had been assigned an aisle seat near the front, she was in a middle seat closer to the back). I asked the person across the aisle from my child (he was in an aisle), I asked the person in the window so that I could at least be in the same row, I asked several people around me, I was kind and polite and finally when no one would move (and the flight attendants told me I was no longer allowed to ask anyone to move), I explained to the lady next to my son that although he can normally manage his asthma meds, if he had a drastic attack, he would likely need adult help and since she was the one next to him, I would appreciate if she would learn how to use his inhaler with him and that he is prone to blood sugar crashes and she also might want to be aware of that, as he can faint due to it. At that point she said "oh, if you actually want to be with him, then I'll move". I'm not sure why you would assume that I hadn't started by simply asking, I never said that was how I started the conversation. Just wanted to point out that not only do airlines allow children to sit alone, even when asked to help, they seem to actively encourage it by refusing to help.

Editing to add that we had paid for seats together and weather circumstances ended up separating us, not any choice I had made.

If you had asked me, and I refused, and you then started explaining all his needs to me, I would have responded with a "Look, lady, I am not babysitting your son," or, "Take it up with the flight attendant and leave me alone," and would have opened my book or looked out the window.

I would have also asked, "Why are you telling me this?? Do you expect me to care for your child??" By giving the woman next to your son instructions, you clearly were expecting her to care for him.

Or, on second thought, I may have asked you how much you were going to pay me to look after your son.

My days of looking after somebody else's kids are over...unless they're related to me.

 

[acpalmer]

So, if this man was friendly all along, and the female passenger was rude, why did you start of by giving her instructions about how to help your DS with his meds instead of asking the man if he would help? ALso, you said early you started telling the woman what to do if he needed help. Did you mean you asked her if she was willing to help and then proceed with instructions? I am actually quite baffled here Not trying to give you a hard time just trying to fit in all the pieces to see how this was simply requesting help and not being pushy about your DS's health concerns; I must be pretty dense as I am still not getting it It does sound like he (and you) had quite a day

Why her instead of the man? She was the one sitting next to my son and the flight attendant had already informed me in front of the lady that the lady seated next to him would have to be the one to take care of him, as she had been assigned "x" number (I can't remember the exact number, it was a big plane) of passengers and since the lady didn't want to move she would have to help my son.

After the flight attendant said that in front of the lady and myself, I asked if I could go over the information with her. Lady didn't respond one way or another. So, I started going over it. Man at the window said he would be willing to help if she wasn't. I thanked him and would have started then talking to him rather than her, but at that point is when she said she'd move. I was HUGELY stressed out by this point and wasn't going to look a gift horse in the mouth--just told her my seat number.

The flight attendant is the one who told me that the lady would be the one who would have to help. The flight attendants were no help at all whatsoever at any point along the way. There are many reasons why I will not fly Delta again--the flight attendants are some of them.

Here's the thing, though. It's very obvious that no matter how much I explain what happened, I am going to be jumped on, called out, told how incredibly unreasonable I was, etc. I was doing the best I could on a very stressful day after a very stressful night spent in the airport. I was doing what I could under the system that the flight attendants told me was in place. I was trying my hardest. I don't know what else to say.

 

[maxiesmom]

I never said he owed it to me. He offered it up and because he had been friendly and open in the first place, when he offered to help with my son, I believed him. The fact that he was polite, as opposed to the person who answered by politely worded request with "H*ll No!!" meant that I felt more comfortable with him. I never said I expected it nor did I say he owed it to me. I gave the information that he had already been friendly as an explanation for why I felt comfortable with my son in that row. I can't find anywhere in my post that I said it was expected or owed...can you point out where that is so that I know why you felt a need to jump all over me about it?

I'm sorry if you think I was jumping on you. I wasn't. But there shouldn't be a problem with someone not giving you their seat when you ask. No matter if they explain themselves or not. The way I read you post it sounds as if his reason to you made all of the difference. And it should really make no difference. People should be able to refuse changing seats without feeling the need to explain themselves. That is all I was getting at.

I'm sorry too that you felt you were in a bad position. But no person on board a plane is responsible for looking after the needs of your child, except for yourself. And that means the FAs too. Their job is to care for all passangers, and they cannot do their job while paying so much special attention to one child. I know that probably sounds harsh to you. And I am sorry for that too. But that is reality, plain and simple.

 

[acpalmer]

If you had asked me, and I refused, and you then started explaining all his needs to me, I would have responded with a "Look, lady, I am not babysitting your son," or, "Take it up with the flight attendant and leave me alone," and would have opened my book or looked out the window.

I would have also asked, "Why are you telling me this?? Do you expect me to care for your child??" By giving the woman next to your son instructions, you clearly were expecting her to care for him.

Or, on second thought, I may have asked you how much you were going to pay me to look after your son.

My days of looking after somebody else's kids are over...unless they're related to me.

The flight attendant was the one who told me and the lady sitting there that she was the one who would have to help him. The flight attendant informed me, in front of the lady, that she had "x" (I don't remember the number) passengers to take care of and so the passenger sitting next to him would have to be the one to help since she had opted not to trade her seat. I tried to talk to the flight attendants--that's the system they told me would be in place. Yep, I was expecting her to help care of him when I wouldn't be allowed out of my seat because that is what the FLIGHT ATTENDANT told me would have to happen and the flight attendants are the ones who are in charge on the plane.

How much would I have paid you? What's your hourly rate? You think I wouldn't have happily written a check then and there? I would have written her a check to switch seats, too, if that's what she wanted. My child would have been worth it. You could act nasty to me all you want--the people in charge on the flight told me that was the situation and so I was working within it as best I could. Slam me all you want--I was doing the best I could in the circumstances that I was put in.

Personally, I think the flight attendants were way out of line, but I do know that you don't stand on a plane and argue with them. I took it up with Customer Service when I got home and Delta informed that the FAs were right--they would not be the ones to care for any child on the plane. Like I said earlier, many reasons I will not be doing business with Delta again. I also spoke with several other airlines, all of whom told me that their policy is that FAs are responsible for children who have been seated by themselves when the parents had originally booked seats together.

 

[acpalmer]

The way I read you post it sounds as if his reason to you made all of the difference.

The fact that he was willing to actually communicate with me (instead of "H**l No!!) made me feel more comfortable with him being a person who is willing to help. He had established that he was a friendly person, the other one, not as much. Doesn't mean she had to be friendly, just means I knew he was and wasn't so sure about her. I'm not sure why that's hard to understand or imagine? Don't most people feel more comfortable with people who are willing to talk to them and are polite than those who aren't?

 

[NHdisneylover]

Why her instead of the man? She was the one sitting next to my son and the flight attendant had already informed me in front of the lady that the lady seated next to him would have to be the one to take care of him, as she had been assigned "x" number (I can't remember the exact number, it was a big plane) of passengers and since the lady didn't want to move she would have to help my son.

.

From what you posted earlier--that you asked both the man at the window and the woman to trade--I thought your son was in the middle seat (making him equally accessible to either passenger). Was he on the aisle seat then? I am really not trying to jump all over you--and I am glad the majority of your anger is at the airline for not finding a way to keep you together when you had paid to be so after a weather issue (and not being able to find a way to get you home sooner on another flight if it was not possible on the first) and not at the passenger. I am curious (and realize in the heat and stress o the moment it can be hard to think straight--but maybe it would help you or otehrs in the future to think of these things if you did not think of them before) did you ask the lady if she had paid for her seat assignemnt and offer to repay her that amount plus maybe buy her a drink or snack, etc. as a way of making moving more pallatble for her?

 

[maxiesmom]

The fact that he was willing to actually communicate with me (instead of "H**l No!!) made me feel more comfortable with him being a person who is willing to help. He had established that he was a friendly person, the other one, not as much. Doesn't mean she had to be friendly, just means I knew he was and wasn't so sure about her. I'm not sure why that's hard to understand or imagine? Don't most people feel more comfortable with people who are willing to talk to them and are polite than those who aren't?

No, but what I'm getting at it seem that his reason to you for not moving is what made it ok for you to let him stay in his seat. I'm saying it should be ok with you no matter if he gave you a reason or not.

 

[acpalmer]

From what you posted earlier--that you asked both the man at the window and the woman to trade--I thought your son was in the middle seat (making him equally accessible to either passenger). Was he on the aisle seat then? I am really not trying to jump all over you--and I am glad the majority of your anger is at the airline for not finding a way to keep you together when you had paid to be so after a weather issue (and not being able to find a way to get you home sooner on another flight if it was not possible on the first) and not at the passenger. I am curious (and realize in the heat and stress o the moment it can be hard to think straight--but maybe it would help you or otehrs in the future to think of these things if you did not think of them before) did you ask the lady if she had paid for her seat assignemnt and offer to repay her that amount plus maybe buy her a drink or snack, etc. as a way of making moving more pallatble for her?

Yes, I had explained that in an earlier post--my son was on the aisle. I had an aisle seat further forward in the plane. I had asked the man at the window (and the person across the aisle from my son) to trade so that I could at least be in the same row as my son. I explained to each and every person that I spoke with about trading that my son had medical concerns that would likely need to be attended to and that I would try to compensate them for the trade. No one was willing to move. Everyone on Delta gets an assigned seat when they buy the ticket--there is no additional cost to have an assigned seat--it is given to you when you purchase, so there isn't an "extra" or "above and beyond" fee to have an assigned seat prior to boarding.

 

[acpalmer]

No, but what I'm getting at it seem that his reason to you for not moving is what made it ok for you to let him stay in his seat. I'm saying it should be ok with you no matter if he gave you a reason or not.

I'm not sure you read the question that I was answering. I was asked if I would have felt comfortable at that point leaving my son in that row. I said yes because this man had stepped in to offer help and because we had an actual conversation earlier. I was explaining why I was OK with leaving my son there, not why I was OK with him staying in his seat. Of course if that lady wanted her center seat in the back of the plane she was allowed to keep it--that wasn't the information my post was about.