Splash Mountain to become Princess and the Frog ride

[chasgoose]

But, you do have to admit that any of the old fables or stories are made much more well-known and kept in the public eye by getting the Disney treatment. I don't necessarily think they would die out completely, but Disney does give them a very big shot in the arm.

To the extent the stories were given a shot in the arm by Disney, it was still the Joel Chandler Harris version of these stories. If they wanted to focus on the African version of these stories, they could have set the movie and the ride IN AFRICA, instead of in the Reconstruction South. I'm sure yes, awareness Song of the South and the Joel Chandler Harris versions inspired more interest in the original stories the Uncle Remus stories were derived from, especially as more black people were allowed to attend college and studies of non-Western traditions grew in popularity, but those efforts won't be harmed in the slightest by Disney re-theming a theme park ride.

 

[JacknSally]

But, you do have to admit that any of the old fables or stories are made much more well-known and kept in the public eye by getting the Disney treatment. I don't necessarily think they would die out completely, but Disney does give them a very big shot in the arm.

Is that what's happening, though? Genuinely asking. I knew the connection of the ride to Song of the South, and have since I was little. I was 3 when the ride opened in Florida, and have ridden it on every trip since then. I had the VHS sing-a-longs with Uncle Remus and Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah. I did not not know the connection of B'rer Rabbit to these fables until several weeks ago. For me personally, the characters existing in this way at WDW did not make these fables and folktales more well known.

I'm not saying that others' did not have opposite experiences. I just wonder how much of a "shot in the arm", to borrow your phrasing, these fables might be getting from the ride alone.

 

[RamblingMad]

Is that what's happening, though? Genuinely asking. I knew the connection of the ride to Song of the South, and have since I was little I was 3 when the ride opened in Florida, and have ridden it on every trip since then. I had the VHS sing-a-longs with Uncle Remus and Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah. I did not not know the connection of B'rer Rabbit to these fables until several weeks ago. For me personally, the characters existing in this way at WDW did not make these fables and folktales more well known.

I'm not saying that others' did not have opposite experiences. I just wonder how much of a "shot in the arm", to borrow your phrasing, these fables might be getting from the ride alone.

Imagine having this conversation with a kid. We are changing your ride because it’s racist. The kid pulls up the video of the ride on YouTube and watches it. The kid looks at the parents and says: okay. Now, what exactly was that kid’s take away? This is going to make for awkward conversations since you can’t pop in the DVD and explain it.

 

[BrianL]

To the extent the stories were given a shot in the arm by Disney, it was still the Joel Chandler Harris version of these stories. If they wanted to focus on the African version of these stories, they could have set the movie and the ride IN AFRICA, instead of in the Reconstruction South. I'm sure yes, awareness Song of the South and the Joel Chandler Harris versions inspired more interest in the original stories the Uncle Remus stories were derived from, especially as more black people were allowed to attend college and studies of non-Western traditions grew in popularity, but those efforts won't be harmed in the slightest by Disney re-theming a theme park ride.

I was referring to any of the fairy tales in general, not this particular case where the basis for the Disney version is questionable. I just think it's fair to say that when people think of Cinderella they think of Disney's verison and if there had never been a Disney version then likely very few or nobody even would remember that story today. I was merely refuting the idea that these fairy tales and fables would be just as strong and long lived without Disney - which I seriously doubt.

but do the people to whoms culture the stories belong want that to happen?

Well, that's a good question for sure. Once Disney touches something, that usually becomes the primary version, for good or ill.

 

[BrianL]

I'm not saying that others' did not have opposite experiences. I just wonder how much of a "shot in the arm", to borrow your phrasing, these fables might be getting from the ride alone.

I'm sorry for not being clear, I was not talking about the ride or the Br'er characters - I was talking about any fairy tale that has been used by Disney.

 

[TDSAXX]

So here’s my question to Disney: which is more racially offensive a character who’s based on a real-life historical figure who bought and sold slaves or an animated bunny? Because they’re getting rid of Splash; but have no plans to pull the plug on showing the movie version of “Hamilton” on Disney+.

 

[Boardwalkbrats]

I think there was nothing racist in the splash mountain ride. I frankly did not see color in any of the characters in the ride. I saw childhood memories of a very enjoyable time that has spanned many generations of my family. Every time we “pc” something else due to some ones desire to be outraged over a very benign piece of the American lexicon, we lose some very fine memories for a lot of people. I find that sad. America has its historical warts, but on the whole it is and has been a group of people trying to find fairness for all and freedom for all, sometimes very painfully. I think tearing down history dooms us to repeat it and lose what makes us great. The changes in pirates and now splash mountain next will be its a small world, I am truly saddened..... well maybe not changing it’s a small world.

 

[Moliphino]

I was referring to any of the fairy tales in general, not this particular case where the basis for the Disney version is questionable. I just think it's fair to say that when people think of Cinderella they think of Disney's verison and if there had never been a Disney version then likely very few or nobody even would remember that story today. I was merely refuting the idea that these fairy tales and fables would be just as strong and long lived without Disney - which I seriously doubt.

I agree that the Disney version is the one most people think of, but the bolded is totally not true of Cinderella. Just look at all the versions there have been both before and after the Disney one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinderella#In_popular_culture

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I swear I’m having shades of disciplining my kids in here and throughout the online Disney community.

“SO WHAT IF I DID _______ LOOK WHAT HE DID WRONG!!” Yeah great okay if I need to deal with that I will too but that doesn’t make what you did any less wrong and right now I’m talking to you not your brother. Aspects that may or may not be problematic in other attractions or in other films dont change the issues specific to Song of the South and by extension Splash Mountain.

I love Splash Mountain. I generally dislike change in Disney for nostalgia reasons and also because I am skeptical in their willingness to do it “right”. I get the sad feelings, I feel the sad feelings, but it’s gotta happen.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Imagine having this conversation with a kid. We are changing your ride because it’s racist. The kid pulls up the video of the ride on YouTube and watches it. The kid looks at the parents and says: okay. Now, what exactly was that kid’s take away? This is going to make for awkward conversations since you can’t pop in the DVD and explain it.

I had that conversation with my kid last night. It's complicated and I told her I would explain more later, especially since I am setting up my own black history mini/crash course for her at home. We will go more in depth as she gets older.

She slept in her Splash Mountain sweatshirt last night. I explained that it's ok to love the ride and love the characters, but there are racist tones in the movie it's based on. I said that makes people upset and isn't it great that Tiana will finally have some representation in the parks? That New Orleans/Louisiana, our home, will, too? She understands that racism is an evil thing and accepted that. The first friend she made in kindergarten was black. Explaining segregation to a 4th grader is not easy. My child knows that black lives matter.

She turns 10 in August.

 

[ThornXBL]

If this NEEDS to happen NOW and it is so "problematic" why is Disney not putting their money where their mouth is? They should be pulling all the merchandise, and the ride should not open when the park opens. In fact, the ride should be stripped down and everything destroyed before the park opens, right? Its going to be just as problematic for the unspecified period of time that it remains open.

AFAIK, Disney themselves haven't said anything about the current ride being "problematic". The Blog announcement doesn't mention the original theme of the ride at all, and the D23.com interview with Bob Weis only refers to it as saying "Many fans are very passionate about Splash Mountain and, of course, making changes to any attraction evokes feelings on both sides."

I don't think anyone wants a rush job. The people who want a new theme on the ride want it done well. The people who enjoyed the original theme (myself included) would (I hope) also want it done well, and preserve the ride layout we love so dearly.

Disney rethemes attractions all the time, and most of those times it's not because the attraction has ties to a problematic/racist source material. Unfortunately for the Disney Br'er characters I love, they happen to be. (Which goes back to my earlier post, wishing they were given newer/modern "source material" with more respectful retellings of the Br'er Rabbit tales, but that is a pipe dream)

 

[JacknSally]

Imagine having this conversation with a kid. We are changing your ride because it’s racist. The kid pulls up the video of the ride on YouTube and watches it. The kid looks at the parents and says: okay. Now, what exactly was that kid’s take away? This is going to make for awkward conversations since you can’t pop in the DVD and explain it.

I'm not sure I follow. I apologize.

If I'm reading this correctly, you're saying "We are changing your ride because it's racist" - kid watches POV video of the ride on YouTube - kid says okay.

I don't have kids, so I don't know how exactly I would approach it with them, but I would hope there would be more dialogue around it than what you've outlined here? Would it be uncomfortable dialogue? Of course. It's an uncomfortable subject. But "Hey, your ride's racist so it's changing" shouldn't be the way to broach the subject, in my unqualified-as-I'm-not-a-parent opinion.

 

[SaintsManiac]

I'm not sure I follow. I apologize.

If I'm reading this correctly, you're saying "We are changing your ride because it's racist" - kid watches POV video of the ride on YouTube - kid says okay.

I don't have kids, so I don't know how exactly I would approach it with them, but I would hope there would be more dialogue around it than what you've outlined here? Would it be uncomfortable dialogue? Of course. It's an uncomfortable subject. But "Hey, your ride's racist so it's changing" shouldn't be the way to broach the subject, in my unqualified-as-I'm-not-a-parent opinion.

Correct. Anyone who tells a kid that is immature and ignorant. That is not how to explain it PROPERLY.

 

[RamblingMad]

Correct. Anyone who tells a kid that is immature and ignorant. That is not how to explain it PROPERLY.

How do you explain this to an eight year old?

 

[SaintsManiac]

How do you explain this to an eight year old?

Did you purposely skip the post I made before this?

 

[RamblingMad]

Did you purposely skip the post I made before this?

It’s one thing to say you explained something. It’s another to say it. I know plenty of parents that ask their kids if they understand something, and the kids just nod their heads. But when you ask you ask the kid to explain it back, they end up not really getting it. So what did you say? No kid wants their rides changed.

 

[Lindy79]

Splash Mountain was a great ride. Kids only see the cute rabbit and bear nothing more. Why not just take the song out if that the problem, why change the whole ride? Put a Princess and the frog ride closer to New Orlean's Square. Also does nobody see all the voodoo and witch craft in that movie? That's fine for kids.

 

[North of Mouse]

They'd never be as good as they are in DL. WDW has proven they can't match DLR food-wise. There is also no New Orleans Square so beignets woudn't be appropriate.

Not sure about the ones in DL, but they for sure wouldn't be like the ones at Cafe du Monde in NOLA - already tried the ones at Port Orleans - greasy and heavy.

 

[SaintsManiac]

It’s one thing to say you explained something. It’s another to say it. I know plenty of parents that ask their kids if they understand something, and the kids just nod their heads. But when you ask you ask the kid to explain it back, they end up not really getting it. So what did you say? No kid wants their rides changed.

If your child does not understand what racism is, then I suggest teaching them.

 

[BrianL]

I agree that the Disney version is the one most people think of, but the bolded is totally not true of Cinderella. Just look at all the versions there have been both before and after the Disney one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinderella#In_popular_culture

Well, maybe, but I don't think there would be as many film versions afterward if not for hte Disney version. There may have still been balets, but well....