Staying on Property vs off Property

[brucerob62]

we find renting points easy to make it better to stay onsite..we hve a car and go off site to eat alot..and save more money ...do an occasional on site restaurant and buy food at the publix....just our preference i guess but my fam of 4 can stay in a studio usually OKW since it has 2 queen beds..bring a blow up bed too .)we only sleep their anyway) so size is not that important..and pay about the same as staying offsite. after renting points, now if you need a 2 or 3 bd it may be a bit cheaper to stay off site.. but it just depends on family size and needs

 

[daytondisney]

Hey Wilderness, not to get too off topic but I really like your home resort. What does it cost in points for a 2 bedroom there? I'm thinking it may make more sense to buy that instead of shelling out $800 a week for WBC.

Thanks

293 DVC points X $14 per point = $4,100 (incl "magic" )

And this is the low end of DVC 2BRs

 

[joedplumber]

293 DVC points X $14 per point = $4,100 (incl "magic" )

And this is the low end of DVC 2BRs

Holy Crap! That's what I pay for a full week for lodging, travel, park tickets & food....

I was thinking more along the lines of purchasing. I figure maybe the cost of ownership over 25 years would be the same as shelling out $1,000 a year for offsite lodging.

 

[daytondisney]

we find renting points easy to make it better to stay onsite..we hve a car and go off site to eat alot..and save more money ...do an occasional on site restaurant and buy food at the publix....just our preference i guess but my fam of 4 can stay in a studio usually OKW since it has 2 queen beds..bring a blow up bed too .)we only sleep their anyway) so size is not that important..and pay about the same as staying offsite. after renting points, now if you need a 2 or 3 bd it may be a bit cheaper to stay off site.. but it just depends on family size and needs

I think a studio with DVC rental points is about as close as you can come ($200-$300 more) to a 2BR condo offsite. Since ammenities like kitchen and laundry and size don't matter, not having to rent a vehicle and pay for parking makes this a cheaper option than offsite. Compared to a Moderate, you get 36 more sq. ft. for less money.

 

[daytondisney]

Holy Crap! That's what I pay for a full week for lodging, travel, park tickets & food....

I was thinking more along the lines of purchasing. I figure maybe the cost of ownership over 25 years would be the same as shelling out $1,000 a year for offsite lodging.

Amortize $24,000 for up front purchase + $900 and up for annual maintenance

I think you get around 160 points per year? not sure.

 

[joedplumber]

Amortize $24,000 for up front purchase + $900 and up for annual maintenance

I think you get around 160 points per year? not sure.

Dang! $900+ for annual maintenance is what I am paying now for lodging alone.

Thanks for the info..

 

[daytondisney]

Want to be a DVC owner?

$24,000 purchase (ignore time value of investment/finance charges)
$22,500 total annual fees (assume no increase for 25 years)
$46,250

For the total of your payments, you get
160 DVC points
X 25 years
4,000 DVC points

So purchase price of $46,250 for 4,000 DVC points = $11.62 per DVC point

For a 7 night stay:

160 points will get you a studio at any of the resorts, with points left over ranging from 90 down to 7 (a moderate room is 340 sq. ft - a studio is 376 - but it does allow you to wash hands behind closed door)
160 points will get you the cheapest 1BR villa at 2 of the resorts
163-306 points will get you a 1 BR villa in the remaining resorts
190 is the cheapest 2 BR villa, and the rest aren't really that close

Your annual cost amortizes out to $1,860 assuming no increase in annual maintenance fees and no time value to cash investment/interest from financed investment

 

[robinb]

Want to be a DVC owner?

$24,000 purchase (ignore time value of investment/finance charges)
$22,500 total annual fees (assume no increase for 25 years)
$46,250

For the total of your payments, you get
160 DVC points
X 25 years
4,000 DVC points

So purchase price of $46,250 for 4,000 DVC points = $11.62 per DVC point

For a 7 night stay:

160 points will get you a studio at any of the resorts, with points left over ranging from 90 down to 7 (a moderate room is 340 sq. ft - a studio is 376 - but it does allow you to wash hands behind closed door)
160 points will get you the cheapest 1BR villa at 2 of the resorts
163-306 points will get you a 1 BR villa in the remaining resorts
190 is the cheapest 2 BR villa, and the rest aren't really that close

Your annual cost amortizes out to $1,860 assuming no increase in annual maintenance fees and no time value to cash investment/interest from financed investment

If you keep your DVC contract for less than 25 years (or the contract end date) there is still a residual value to the contract. For instance, I bought a 230 point contract at OKW in 1996 and sold it in 2006 (I think) for a profit even after paying commission. So, the cost of all my stays using those OKW points were very, very cheap. I think I calculated it out to be less than $3 per point.

 

[DizneyNutz]

Dang! $900+ for annual maintenance is what I am paying now for lodging alone.

Thanks for the info..

Sent you a PM joedplumber.

 

[daytondisney]

If you keep your DVC contract for less than 25 years (or the contract end date) there is still a residual value to the contract. For instance, I bought a 230 point contract at OKW in 1996 and sold it in 2006 (I think) for a profit even after paying commission. So, the cost of all my stays using those OKW points were very, very cheap. I think I calculated it out to be less than $3 per point.

Certainly, as with any investment

 

[jeff968]

Want to be a DVC owner?

$24,000 purchase (ignore time value of investment/finance charges)
$22,500 total annual fees (assume no increase for 25 years)
$46,250

For the total of your payments, you get
160 DVC points
X 25 years
4,000 DVC points

So purchase price of $46,250 for 4,000 DVC points = $11.62 per DVC point

For a 7 night stay:

160 points will get you a studio at any of the resorts, with points left over ranging from 90 down to 7 (a moderate room is 340 sq. ft - a studio is 376 - but it does allow you to wash hands behind closed door)
160 points will get you the cheapest 1BR villa at 2 of the resorts
163-306 points will get you a 1 BR villa in the remaining resorts
190 is the cheapest 2 BR villa, and the rest aren't really that close

Your annual cost amortizes out to $1,860 assuming no increase in annual maintenance fees and no time value to cash investment/interest from financed investment

Disney DVC maintenance fees are only $900 per year and they don't vary? ($22,500/25 years) I would have guess more.

Doesn't the week result in a higher useage on fees? In you scenario above is that for the last week of January or would it be the same for Xmas/Easter week?

I've run the math numerous times and we'll never own in Florida. I always find a great rental and I get to keep my $24K purchase money in the bank

 

[daytondisney]

Disney DVC maintenance fees are only $900 per year and they don't vary? ($22,500/25 years) I would have guess more.

Doesn't the week result in a higher useage on fees? In you scenario above is that for the last week of January or would it be the same for Xmas/Easter week?

I've run the math numerous times and we'll never own in Florida. I always find a great rental and I get to keep my $24K purchase money in the bank

No, they are about $900 now but for the sake of my equation, I did not raise them over the 25 year period. Of course they'll go up over that time but I don't have an accurate assumption of the rate of increase.

I also did not factor in any time value of a $24K purchase with cash, or interest payments if financed, nor any tax implications of either.

And, yes, the week you visit determines the amount of points needed.

 

[WILDERNESS FAN 55]

My DVC ownership will pay for itself in appx 5 years. That includes maint fees over the remaining years.It can make you money down the road but not what it's designed for. You can buy resale for much less than these ridiculous "examples". I'll be vacationing "free" for an additional 20 some years.
If you were really interested I'd do some research and NOT starting from this thread . 24/7

 

[joedplumber]

My DVC ownership will pay for itself in appx 5 years. That includes maint fees over the remaining years.It can make you money down the road but not what it's designed for. You can buy resale for much less than these ridiculous "examples". I'll be vacationing "free" for an additional 20 some years.
If you were really interested I'd do some research and NOT starting from this thread . 24/7

Thanks, I will do some research.

I am figuring my break even point will be greater than 5 years assuming lodging of $1,000.00 a year in WDW area vs. purchasing and maintenance fees.

Let the research begin....

 

[daytondisney]

My DVC ownership will pay for itself in appx 5 years. That includes maint fees over the remaining years.It can make you money down the road but not what it's designed for. You can buy resale for much less than these ridiculous "examples". I'll be vacationing "free" for an additional 20 some years.
If you were really interested I'd do some research and NOT starting from this thread . 24/7

Obviously only you can speak to the terms of your contract. I was posting information from Disney's website for current offers. The examples are ridiculous in that they don't include any interest payments on a financed investment, or in the alternative, and lost future interest accrual on cash used for an outright purchase, nor any increase in maintenance fees. You know what your interest rate is, or what your risk aversion level is wrt to investing, so you can plug in your number.

I admit I haven't explored the resale market.

 

[daytondisney]

Duplicate

 

[WILDERNESS FAN 55]

Thanks, I will do some research.

I am figuring my break even point will be greater than 5 years assuming lodging of $1,000.00 a year in WDW area vs. purchasing and maintenance fees.

Let the research begin....

Maintenance fees are slightly different at each resort.
Good starting point would be to pick a DVC resort you like and find a point chart and see how many points it would take to vacation how you like (studio-1br-2br) and time of year. That would get you in the neighborhood of how many points you'll need on an annual basis.

 

[daytondisney]

Joe, as an example, if you wanted to stay for at the OKW in 2014 during "magic season" you'd need the following number of points at $5.34 per (based on 2013 fees, which looks like an increase of 2.7% over 2012):

108 points for a studio (376 sq feet) ($576)
222 points for a 1 BR ($1185)
296 points for a 2 BR ($1580)
477 points for a Grand Villa (2547)

http://www.wdwinfo.com/disney-vacation-club/OKW-Points.shtml#okw2014

If you can find time during the school year to get away, you can go for significantly less. In September, January and first part of December, a 2BR villa costs about the same as a 1BR does during peak time.

There are a few sites that list resales. On 1 site I found the selling prices ranged from $67-$73 per point for OKW. So taking the average of $70 per point, you could buy:

100 point contract for $7,000 + $534 per year (not enough for even 1 studio per year during summer)
230 point contract for $16,000 + $1228 per year (gets you into a 1BR with 8 points to bank, or 2 weeks in a studio)
300 point contract for $21,000 + $1602 per year (gets you into a 2BR villa during the magic season, with points left over during slower seasons)

Obviously some of/all of/more than the purchase price, closing costs and carrying costs can be recouped upon your own resale. As a seller, you're sort of protected by Disney's Right Of First Refusal creating a floor for how low these contracts can be sold for. As a buyer, the same floor comes into play on how much you'll pay.

So if you wanted to stay in a Disney Villa and the only think keeping you from doing so, this could be the way to go. You could break these points into smaller trips, smaller accomodations, different times of year, villa this year and studio next...the options are endless.

My view is that it is only a good deal when compared to paying Disney rack rate.

 

[jeff968]

I guess everyone has to figure out their specific situation to see if the math works for them. I'm thinking it usually does NOT in Orlando but that's just me and I actually do own a timeshare.

We travel to Florida every President's week. I have paid rentals as low as $650 for a week (Orange Lake) and as much as $1200 for a 3 bedroom at the Marriott Imperial Palms. My average is around $900. Now granted, i have to go find these every year and I'm not sure where I'll be staying but orlando has so many timeshares that it usually isn't a problem. I'm disneyed out so I don't care to stay on site any more and pay the premium associated with it. The maintenance fees on the marriotts/hiltons are around $1000+ a year so it makes since for me to rent and keep my $25K in the bank. i have more work to do every year finding a spot but I'm okay with it.

Now, I do own a timeshare in Cape Cod. Cape Cod has a very short season so rentals are very expensive, usually $1500 a week+ for a villa. I purchased my unit on the resale market. The retail was $21K, I paid $4K. Annual fees are only $500. Our fixed week is the July 4th week. We have been going for 10 years now and it always works out great. At $500 a year i could walk away from the place now and it owes me nothing and I would still be way ahead in savings compared to renting a week every year for the past 10 years. We never trade, there is more money to spend and lose there.

 

[spiceycat]

I admit I haven't explored the resale market.

which is a bargin - except for BCV. and whatever else DVC is buying back (ROFR) now. just don't even consider HH and VB - they will in the future (if not now) have trouble trading into the WDW resorts. besides their maintence fees are the highest.

there was a time when you could buy SSR and OKW for $45 per point.

now I own 60 at VWL, 50 at BWV and 170 at BLT. (did own 240 at OKW but sold it to pay for BLT). 50 points will still get 5 nights at BWV - only 4 nights at VWL with 60 points. these are studios. if I needed to get a 1-bedroom would have to bank points so would only go every other year.

paying a little less now than then $116.31 per month for all the maintence fees. Yes DVC is expensive. and as this post has proved staying at Disney is expensive. BLT cost less than BWV and VWL in maintence fees for now.

but if you love it and want to go - then buy. there have been several times when have looked at offsite to buy - but so far have not found what I want.

that say - if I had to buy now - really could not afford it. So happy I brought back in 1993 (and several other times) - before the prices got so darn high.

stay offsite with my other timeshares and it gets fairly good trades - have not tried thru RCI only II. RCI is the only way to get DVC.