Surrogacy for convenience

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I guess I view it not identical to, but similar to the selling of organs. There's a reason selling organs isn't allowed. It ends up being very exploitative of the poor. I don't like envisioning a world where this is a widely used practice. I get it. It will only be a tool of the wealthy. And I don't like that either.

I can't disagree if that's how you view it but selling of organs IMO is vastly different than what we're talking about. Organs are life saving things and also come with all sorts of specific things for matchability including blood type, size, and overall health. There's a desperation measure that usually is of much greater force when you're faced with the prospect of your loved one dying unless they get this kidney or heart that their body could match with it and a list system where you may be forced with the very real potential that your loved one may die before they ever get up high enough on that list. I can see why there's a regulation set up there not just on a moral level but an ethical level.

But surrogacy isn't on that same path (although candidly there can be desperation there to be a parent) although I'm not sure how I stand on regulation to the extreme on surrogacy but it can benefit from some of it. You do already have norms where medical facilities have qualifications they use. As far as cost in general I like to say that it's mainly due to surrogacy not often covered by medical insurance such as the medical bills. The actual cost paid to the surrogate can drastically vary depending on where you're at and the agreements made but it's the out of pocket medical expenses in conjunction with what you're actually paying that tend to drive up the costs.

Not without merit IMO IVF treatments can be very costly too, a tool for those who can afford tens of thousands per round and can at times be covered by insurance but largely isn't (it used to be basically none of it was covered so that's something). We don't really have our system set up to be supportive of having children in a variety of ways, sorta archaic in the end that it's more accepted "the old fashioned way". Surrogacy also impacts the ability for same sex couples to have children, it's at least an option although not without costs and judgements (like adoption but heck that's often a huge hurdle to overcome in itself).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I loved being pregnant and am glad I had that life experience. I looked good and felt good while I was pregnant.

An old coworker of mine was like that. She had 5 children of her own and loved being pregnant she was joking but then was honestly not (she took on a very serious tone) that she would be a surrogate for someone if that opportunity arose.

Although she was also very blunt that her body was wrecked. She looked petite but after having her kids (it was the second one that did her in) her skin never bounced back in her stomach and she has a lot of excess skin that only cosmetic surgery would correct. She felt fine with it and confident in her body (and I loved that about her) but she said every now and then she got flashes of insecurity. The process of being pregnant for her was something she enjoyed but she was honest in that there were struggles she went through with her body during it.

 

[MamaBelle4]

And, yes, being pregnant was way easier than having a newborn.

Oh I just have to disagree with you there. As I said previously, when you have a rough pregnancy, you suffer through it alone. Your partner may be understanding and empathize, but he can't take any of the burden from you.

Of course I enjoyed feeling my children move and talking to them and holding them immediately after delivering them. But my body went through absolute hades to get me there. And still does to some degrees.

I carried and delivered 5 healthy babies. With my first one, I weighed only about 5 pounds more when I delivered her than when I conceived her because I was so, so sick, even after being on bedrest for the last month because of high blood pressure issues that led to preeclampsia. And she was 6lb 7oz. And after she was born, DH was an absolute godsend. We have really been able to raise our kids as a team, which is so helpful. Growing them is a full time - solo job. Raising them, you have support and assistance (if you're fortunate to), but growing them is something only the birth mother does so everything is dependent on her and her body.

 

[ronandannette]

A friend of mine's father committed suicide because improperly treated bipolar disorder. She has really bad bipolar disorder which is still a problem even with medicine and therapy. She had a lot of trouble finding a doctor who would remove her uterus even though it would be unsafe for her to get pregnant. She would have to go off of her medicine during pregnancy. She was also afraid of passing the gene down to a child. She was a good person but would be a bad mother because of her mood swings.

I totally understand the motivation; not questioning that at all. Just out of curiosity though, why such a radical approach when tubal ligation would have done the job?

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

A friend of mine's father committed suicide because improperly treated bipolar disorder. She has really bad bipolar disorder which is still a problem even with medicine and therapy. She had a lot of trouble finding a doctor who would remove her uterus even though it would be unsafe for her to get pregnant. She would have to go off of her medicine during pregnancy. She was also afraid of passing the gene down to a child. She was a good person but would be a bad mother because of her mood swings.

Of course. When women decide they don't want to get pregnant, a hysterectomy is not, and has never been, the procedure of choice. When that decision is known to be temporary, women would choose to use birth control. When that decision is felt to be a more permanent one, such as the case of your friend, a tubal ligation is done. If she just wanted to be extra, extra careful, her husband could also get a vasectomy. There are a lot more medical risks to having a hysterectomy vs. tubal ligation. Why would a doctor choose that additional liability? I would think in court, he wouldn't have a leg to stand on since hysterectomy is not a standard of care for permanent sterilization.

 

[Sinder]

I took her "life on hold" comment to be about her career. As a pregnant and post partem actress her opportunities for roles will be very limited. Then add in the time it will take her to get her body back to pre-pregnancy, which like it or not is important in her career.
Women in every career make choices about when and how to start their family based on how their jobs will be effected in the here and now and in the future. Why should an actress be any different?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I’ll chime in with the pregnancy part. I gave birth to twins. It was a tough pregnancy but I am lucky to be alive, as one of the placentas was a previously unknown placenta accreta and I hemorrhaged severely twice when I got back to my room from the OR, losing half the blood in my body in under 30 minutes. I actually thought I was a goner but fortunately I was in a good hospital and they saved my life, but it was touch and go for weeks after the birth (at home with two new babies to care for and still bleeding heavily).

That condition later caused me to have adenomyosis of my uterus which caused me great pain and bleeding years later, for years, ultimately having to undergo surgery to remove it. My babies were born at 7lbs 10oz and 7lbs 4 oz. I was so swollen I had to wear my husband’s size 12 shoes just to go out toward the end, none of my own fit me. Trying to work in that condition I strained my uterine ligaments rolling a very large patient over and was sidelined by my OB despite my protests that I was fine. I’ll spare you more details, but somehow I always sensed a pregnancy would be difficult for me. Despite all that, though, I was blessed with two children who are the lights of my life and I’d do it over if I had to, to have them. I did enjoy feeling their movement and singing to them when they were still in utero, as well as the planning and anticipation, etc. But I do agree that not every woman enjoys their pregnancy or has an easy one.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Well whatever works! I was fortunate...had easy pregnancies and births. My daughter went through hell to have children but doesn't regret it. Yes it affected her career to some degree but her children/family were/are her priority. Although folks should do what is best for them. No criticism from me.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I loved being pregnant and am glad I had that life experience. I looked good and felt good while I was pregnant. Oh, sure, I had bad moments -- but they pale in comparison to feeling the baby move, etc.

And, yes, being pregnant was way easier than having a newborn.

You are not alone. I loved being pregnant. My hormones were perfect, happy and mellow yellow every day, the stars were perfectly aligned...life was good. My husband would've kept me pregnant until menopause if we could've afforded to feed and educate a dozen or more kiddos

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Lol. Exactly.

Also, she thinks being pregnant would have been "putting her life on hold for 2 plus years", (which doesn't make sense to me). What does she plan to do with these babies now that they are here if she thinks being pregnant would take up 2 years of her life?

None of my business, but she needed the attention and made it everyone's business. So I feel free to comment.

Well, 9 (really 10) months of pregnancy followed by a year of postpartum healing. And yes, it takes at least that long for the body to fully heal which is why doctors recommend not getting pregnant again for 18+ months. Full healing won’t happen until about 4 months after the cessation of breastfeeding, either, so that can extend the timeline some more. Saying pregnancy will affect her body for 2 years seems reasonable. Personally speaking, I was in physiotherapy more than two years after the birth of my youngest still trying to correct unresolved issues caused during pregnancy. And that was my easy pregnancy. The 2 years following the birth of my first son was not something I would wish on my worst enemy.

Hyperemesis is horrible. Amazes me that women who have that once ever choose to get pregnant again... but they do.

But for most people... pregnancy is the easy part.

It might seem that way if you had an easy pregnancy and a couple women close to you had easy pregnancies, but many people don’t and they just don’t talk about it. Society’s attitude seems to be that as long as the baby is healthy, that’s all that matters and whatever the woman went through to have that baby was “worth it” in the end. In my own group of friends, only one had easy pregnancies. Everyone else had some form of rather significant complications, and for two of them those complications were life threatening emergencies. We really need to put an end to this idea that pregnancy is just some easy, safe thing women do that they’re healed and moved on from by the six-week check up.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/broken-tired-and-ashamed-how-health-care-fails-new-moms

Not even so much the "easy" part. Just easier than actually raising them.

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I loved being pregnant and am glad I had that life experience. I looked good and felt good while I was pregnant. Oh, sure, I had bad moments -- but they pale in comparison to feeling the baby move, etc.

And, yes, being pregnant was way easier than having a newborn.

Why are so many people insisting on stating this as fact instead of acknowledging that others have had different experiences? The only difficult part of having a newborn for me was trying to care for that baby as my body fell apart in a dozen different ways during the postpartum period. The babies themselves weren’t difficult. They eat, they cry, so what? It’s not rocket science. I’d happily take more kids without a second thought if someone wanted to throw them in my lap. The thought of enduring another pregnancy fills me with dread. That was the hard part for me.

FTR, I did not look good or feel good while pregnant, nor did I get the warm fuzzies feeling them kick (especially not in the ribs). Consider yourself lucky!

 

[MamaBelle4]

I totally understand the motivation; not questioning that at all. Just out of curiosity though, why such a radical approach when tubal ligation would have done the job?

I don't want to speak for OP, but the younger you are the more likely it is that the tubes, essentially, reattach. Increases your chances of an accidental pregnancy.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Lol. Exactly.

Also, she thinks being pregnant would have been "putting her life on hold for 2 plus years", (which doesn't make sense to me). What does she plan to do with these babies now that they are here if she thinks being pregnant would take up 2 years of her life?

None of my business, but she needed the attention and made it everyone's business. So I feel free to comment.

Yeah it's the commitment is a bit longer...

 

[TipsyTraveler]

You are not alone. I loved being pregnant. My hormones were perfect, happy and mellow yellow every day, the stars were perfectly aligned...life was good. My husband would've kept me pregnant until menopause if we could've afforded to feed and educate a dozen or more kiddos

I so envy you. This is what pregnancy did to me:

 

[Sinder]

I didn't have dangerous or really difficult pregnancies but I hated being pregnant, each time.

@TipsyTraveler I didn't look good or feel good either, and there are definitely no warm fuzzy feelings when I think back on any of my 3 pregnancies.
I do remember when their feet would be stuck under my ribs and my whole side would get numb, and the way my hips ached all the time. Unfortunately all I remember is feeling and looking miserable.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I so envy you. This is what pregnancy did to me:

View attachment 675561

Oh no! I was very fortunate. As I stated it was much more difficult for my daughter. folks need to do what is best for them...no judging.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I didn't have dangerous or really difficult pregnancies but I hated being pregnant, each time.

@TipsyTraveler I didn't look good or feel good either, and there are definitely no warm fuzzy feelings when I think back on any of my 3 pregnancies.
I do remember when their feet would be stuck under my ribs and my whole side would get numb, and the way my hips ached all the time. Unfortunately all I remember is feeling and looking miserable.

Yup. My abdomen was so compressed from the two babies that if I leaned back and tried to doze off a bit, I would wake up from vomit creeping up into my esophagus! It was so gross, and made it so that I really couldn’t sleep, and was constantly uncomfortable with no relief. I also could barely drive because my foot wouldn’t touch the pedals, with the steering wheel jammed into my belly. I feel like @TipsyTraveler, I often don’t like to even think about it.

 

[mom2rtk]

Why are so many people insisting on stating this as fact instead of acknowledging that others have had different experiences? The only difficult part of having a newborn for me was trying to care for that baby as my body fell apart in a dozen different ways during the postpartum period. The babies themselves weren’t difficult. They eat, they cry, so what? It’s not rocket science. I’d happily take more kids without a second thought if someone wanted to throw them in my lap. The thought of enduring another pregnancy fills me with dread. That was the hard part for me.

I never once said my experience was easy. Just that generally the rearing of said child (well beyond the newborn stage) is a lot harder than pregnancy itself. Regardless of how hard the pregnancy was.

Everyone keeps adding their stories, and I feel for them. But nobody heading into a pregnancy really knows how it will go for them. Which honestly makes me feel more strongly that I don't like paying someone else to take that risk for you.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Which honestly makes me feel more strongly that I don't like paying someone else to take that risk for you.

Well if you don't have kids then you're going to be called all sorts of things. I don't really think women win at all. And in truth the harshest critics of women and their choices are often other women. Sure we have issues right now where the bulk of laws on women's bodies are from men in power but the larger societal judgment, criticism and expectation comes largely from other women, a shame IMO.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Well if you don't have kids then you're going to be called all sorts of things. I don't really think women win at all. And in truth the harshest critics of women and their choices are often other women. Sure we have issues right now where the bulk of laws on women's bodies are from men in power but the larger societal judgment, criticism and expectation comes largely from other women, a shame IMO.

I've been silently reading this thread but I can chime in on this point. I'm a young woman that is choosing not to have kids (just don't want them, nothing else to it) and more often than not I get chastised for it the most by other women. My parents don't care but a lot of other people such as my neighbors, friends of my parents' and even my doctor have a lot to say about it. No matter what response I give, it seems like my choice is their problem somehow. It really does feel like whatever choice a woman makes in regards of having kids or not, they can't win.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I never once said my experience was easy. Just that generally the rearing of said child (well beyond the newborn stage) is a lot harder than pregnancy itself. Regardless of how hard the pregnancy was.

Everyone keeps adding their stories, and I feel for them. But nobody heading into a pregnancy really knows how it will go for them. Which honestly makes me feel more strongly that I don't like paying someone else to take that risk for you.

Don’t we do that all the time in other ways, though? Plenty of us don’t want to risk our lives fighting wars or running into burning buildings or disarming bombs so we pay people who are willing to take that risk to do those things for us. Military, police, firefighters, doctors and nurses exposed to infectious diseases, lifeguards, oil rig workers, animals control personnel removing a dangerous animal from your yard… lots of people get paid to do risky things. Why should surrogacy be any different? If one person isn’t comfortable taking a certain risk but another is and can be paid for their service, what’s the problem? It sounds like a win-win situation to me.