Trust points?

[eticketplease]

There is no way Disney is going to give trust resale owners an advantage over 7 month booking direct owners. That would is nonsense.

If the POS or whatever the legal document is states there is an 11 month window to book your home resort in the trust and a 9 month window for the other properties that are owned in the trust they have to honor that.

Just like they honor that another family that has purchased it second hand will not be able to stay at any other resort as spelled out in the legal document.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm very curious about this, too. I know that until it is officially announced, there are a lot of rumors and speculations of exactly how it will work. But from how I think it will work, I don't like it.

The trust will own some percentage of the points at each property vs. our traditional deeded DVC ownership. Making up random numbers, maybe 100% CFW, 25% RIV, 50% VDH, 30% AUL, etc. That will be the pool of points that trust owners will have access to.

I'm guessing that for the more popular resorts, especially at the more popular times, there will be a lot more demand than available inventory because direct trust owners will have the 11 month window into multiple properties.

And for resale trust owners that are restricted to a single resort, if you own at a popular resort, there will be that much more competition in the 11 month window. It may be difficult to get a reservation that works for your schedule, or to get any reservation.

But the marketing will be all glamorous and glitzy. Look at how many resorts you can book at the 11 month window with a single ownership! Then reality strikes when you actually try to make a reservation.

Just to clarify, the trust won’t own points. The trust will own property and they will define who many points those units will have to use for 365 days.

So, whatever becomes trust property must be defined. Currently, the only property that has become a trust property are the cabins of FW.

Once added, DVD then activates part of it to be sold. They have activated 30 cabins. The others are inactive and the responsibility of DVD to pay for

In order to include any part of current resorts, they must have units or rooms to add. So, at RIV, there is only 25% left…the number of points that would be is based on what actual rooms are left.

It would be the same for the other active selling resorts.

Right now, the have created just one use plan to include the cabins. They can set up as many plans as they want against any resort property added.

What they could do is simply put all resort property at a single location under its own plan and when people buy, they buy a specific one. Keeps the resale restrictions per resort property in the plan.

They have guaranteed those in the cabins plan one month. What they could end up doing is not give everyone the same window who are in different trust plans, but nothing would stop them from giving owners of each only their one month. Then other direct buyers in the trust get access to the trust property snd those at all other DVC resorts get the left overs via BVTC, which could be shortened.

So, those who have deeded ownerships could simply find themselves having to stay at their home resorts more often..which, technically, is all we were promised to begin with.

 

[maui22]

When Disney sells points in the trust to someone, will they still need to file a deed with the county?

 

[Sandisw]

I'm not too sure they will sell it as a bargain bin. There's a possibility that they would still have a home resort with 11 months access and then tier the rest of the points out (ie 11 for home resort, 9 for the rest in the trust, 7 for all of dvc). This could be an attractive selling point for those that would like advanced priority on multiple resorts, but still provide a tiered selling strategy for disney.

I agree…I do not believe this is a method to sell resorts not selling because all they needed to do for them is lower the price and give better incentives.

I think this is going to be the way forward…whether it is only cabins for now, or if they will do something with Poly tower or wait for a project down the line.

 

[Sandisw]

When Disney sells points in the trust to someone, will they still need to file a deed with the county?

They get a special deed that applies to this type of timeshare estate.

But it’s not a deed to property but to the trust plan. And, every trust plan can activate any resort property that the trust has.

That is how someone could end up with more than one home resort booking period.

 

[Sandisw]

There is no way Disney is going to give trust resale owners an advantage over direct owners who can not book until 7 months. That would is nonsense.

We already know they are putting resale restrictions on trust use plans sold on the resale market.

So, i agree…they are not going to give resale buyers better access.

But, they will definitely give trust buyers better access then current owners if this is the new DVC way.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

Yeah, I figure they won’t sell it at a reduced price. It just has a “bargain bin” feel to it. Multiple resorts that are not selling well get packaged together. I get the premise and the appeal for DVC management to do this. It makes sense. It just feels like walking down the candy aisle after Halloween and seeing the 4 least selling candies bundled together to entice people to buy them. For me personally, I don’t like those candies so I won’t buy them even when they’re bundled together. Same thing with this trust. It’s not about quantity, it’s about quality. I stay where I want to stay. But I understand that not everyone will feel the same way and this trust will definitely generate revenue for DVC.

In fairness, these resorts that aren’t selling as well aren’t doing so because the product is bad. I’d wager to say RIV, VDH and Aulani are actually really well liked as resorts themselves. The problem lies with the restrictions (aulani for other reasons obviously).

But DVD is doubling down on restrictions and so in the near-ish future there will be as many restricted resorts as there are legacy resorts, so eventually, if we want to keep enjoying all the new offerings made by DVC we will have to come to terms with either buying direct, dealing with a severely restricted resale, or leaving DVC altogether.

If the trust goes the way we’ve all been speculating (a multi-resort RTU plan), then preuamably all new resorts going forward will be placed there. I doubt those new resorts will be considered bargain bin.

 

[maui22]

They get a special deed that applies to this type of timeshare estate.

But it’s not a deed to property but to the trust plan. And, every trust plan can activate any resort property that the trust has.

That is how someone could end up with more than one home resort booking period.

That's good. Without filing paperwork to the county for the points purchased and specifying resort, the monthly data for direct sales would not be available. Multiple states, counties, etc all have different laws so some we may lose some of the data/details.

 

[Huskerpaul]

A trust product like this solves lots of problems for DVCI.

A trust product is easier to sell because you are selling equal access to all the resorts, not just one resort.

DVCI can deposit any contracts they buy back through ROFR into the trust. And the calculus to ROFR or not is simpler. They just need a good delta between the buyback per point cost vs. how much they are currently charging for trust points retail. I would not be surprised if they transferred ROFR points they currently hold once the trust gets up and running. Which would be great for sales. DVC Salesperson - "Look you can even access Beach Club with this new product."

What do we do with Vero Beach and Hilton Head after 2042? Dump them in the trust! Much easier to sell when combined in a trust I would imagine (but watch out for a big increase in the trust MF which would be a blended MF based on what the trust owned where). Also gives DVCI lots of trust product points to sell without building a new resort(s).

They could even add on a charge to any resale trust points to enroll them into the DVC program. This is what Marriott does now. They add on a $3 per point junk fee to all resale trust products at transfer. This is on top of whatever the buyer paid the seller per point. MVC will exercise ROFR on any resales below a certain dollar threshold and those that go through must pay the per point junk fee to MVC.

Very interesting to see how this shakes out, but folks might want to take advantage of the current almost no ROFR state before the ride comes to an end.

 

[bobbiwoz]

Will I have access to the cabins if I don’t own the trust that contains the cabins? If so, why would I have access?

 

[Cyberc1978]

What you are buying is not into the cabins. You are buying into a trust use plan. It gives you access to any rooms activated under that plan.

What they can do is put several different trust use plans in place for diffeeent properties so when you sell, it’s why you can indeed be restricted to just the property activated under your plan.

The documents do allow for more than one property to go under the same plan but they can still set up rules for purchasing on resale any way they want.

Any insights into if they could put restrictions onto ANY resale owner who wanted to book the resorts which are in the trust?

i.e a resale owner from 2010 who normally would be grandfathered in, is not any longer at the new resorts which are part of the trust - meaning they can't book new trust resorts.

 

[Sandisw]

Any insights into if they could put restrictions onto ANY resale owner who wanted to book the resorts which are in the trust?

i.e a resale owner from 2010 who normally would be grandfathered in, is not any longer at the new resorts which are part of the trust - meaning they can't book new trust resorts.

They have already set up the same rules so only after 2019.

The DVC resort agreements prior to 2019 had some language that I think would make changing mind on pre 2019 resale owners becoming restricted.

 

[DVCPAT]

Will I have access to the cabins if I don’t own the trust that contains the cabins? If so, why would I have access?

I would imagine changes will come after the trust resorts sell out. The buyer doesn’t own anything, just an agreement to use points as Disney allows. I would Imagine no access to maintenance fee budget, no association meetings … no input from purchasers. I wonder if “welcome home” will change to “welcome to Disney”. The devil will be in the details of documents.

 

[Sandisw]

Will I have access to the cabins if I don’t own the trust that contains the cabins? If so, why would I have access?

Right now, trading is the same at 7 months via BVTC.

 

[njcoach24]

DVCI can deposit any contracts they buy back through ROFR into the trust. And the calculus to ROFR or not is simpler. They just need a good delta between the buyback per point cost vs. how much they are currently charging for trust points retail. I would not be surprised if they transferred ROFR points they currently hold once the trust gets up and running. Which would be great for sales. DVC Salesperson - "Look you can even access Beach Club with this new product."

What do we do with Vero Beach and Hilton Head after 2042? Dump them in the trust!

This is 100% what will happen IMO. I think buying (resale) where you want to stay if you get stuck is more true than ever. It also solves all the new inventory in 2042.

The cabins alone won't move contracts, they'll be scooping up good deals aggressively soon or just move their unsold inventory. And if this starts happening, no way a majority or entire thing of this new Poly tower isn't included in the trust.

Also, those still wanting to vacation in Disney in 2042...they'll be holding contracts that only work at some places while the trust will have access to everything. We will all be holdings trust contracts soon lol. But personally, I'm happy staying at the resorts I own...my problem is I'm always booking last minute so I take whatever comes through on my waitlists. I'll have to start planning my trips at 11 months.

 

[homey12]

what a mess.

 

[njcoach24]

I also wonder, I'm sure they will because $$ is bottom line, if at some point they'll have a "trade in or up" promotion to give back a contract to get a discount on the trust.

 

[homey12]

I also wonder, I'm sure they will because $$ is bottom line, if at some point they'll have a "trade in or up" promotion to give back a contract to get a discount on the trust.

I sure hope so

 

[maui22]

If all trust owners have equal access to all trust resorts...

Might trust resale prices be much lower than we have ever seen? Here is what I am thinking. Trust resale buyer will only be able to stay at their resort, but they will eventually compete with tens of millions of points from all direct trust buyers.

Also, might many families run into problems? Many cannot book 11 months in advance, but can book during the 7+ window. If they buy trust points at a popular resort, they may never be able to stay at the resort they purchased trust points.

 

[Sandisw]

A trust product like this solves lots of problems for DVCI.

A trust product is easier to sell because you are selling equal access to all the resorts, not just one resort.

DVCI can deposit any contracts they buy back through ROFR into the trust. And the calculus to ROFR or not is simpler. They just need a good delta between the buyback per point cost vs. how much they are currently charging for trust points retail. I would not be surprised if they transferred ROFR points they currently hold once the trust gets up and running. Which would be great for sales. DVC Salesperson - "Look you can even access Beach Club with this new product."

What do we do with Vero Beach and Hilton Head after 2042? Dump them in the trust! Much easier to sell when combined in a trust I would imagine (but watch out for a big increase in the trust MF which would be a blended MF based on what the trust owned where). Also gives DVCI lots of trust product points to sell without building a new resort(s).

They could even add on a charge to any resale trust points to enroll them into the DVC program. This is what Marriott does now. They add on a $3 per point junk fee to all resale trust products at transfer. This is on top of whatever the buyer paid the seller per point. MVC will exercise ROFR on any resales below a certain dollar threshold and those that go through must pay the per point junk fee to MVC.

Very interesting to see how this shakes out, but folks might want to take advantage of the current almost no ROFR state before the ride comes to an end.

I don’t believe they can because they have to add resort property to it and that property can’t be only part of a unit that is owned by anyone else.

I own a share of Unit 11 at VGF, which consistently of 101 rooms. They declare any of the rooms to the trust because they already exist in the VGF property.

They will only be able to do it when they own 100% of any unit from the current resorts