Unfair in the workplace

[we"reofftoneverland]

It use to be that way until the state took over the pto days about 6 years ago or so. The state has reasons why you can call off. Sick or a family member sick, you have a medical appointment or taking a family member for medical appointment, school or day care closed for the day, something like you have covid or child has covid.

Not cool. I agree pto is pto and it’s none of their business why you’re not there.

 

[mylilnikita]

On the subject of “reason why” on request forms; It has seemed to be the norm for sometime. The only difference now is , it seems after Covid and the real realization that companies aren’t your family friends etc,
And employees are now like that is unacceptable for a company to such and such. Just because it asks a reason doesn’t mean you have to provide that info.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Because it is about trust. It would damage a good working relationship. With this, I would prefer that management trusts their employees and only go after the bad apples and not bother the good ones during terrible times in their lives.

If my manager thinks I am lying about something like this, I would look for another job.

I have no idea what my managers did when my father died, I think i took 5-7 days off, but it didn't come out of PTO.

It does help that in the Netherlands bereavement leave is a right.
- 4 days for 1st degree family members
- 2 days for 2nd degree
- 1 day for 3rd or 4th degree.
And most employers I know will make exceptions if needed. Your grandmother is officially 2nd degree, but if she is the one who raised you, they will be lenient.

You also get 2 days off when you get married. One day to arrange the paperwork you need to get married and the day itself.

An employer that blindly trusts their employees and doesn't check up on them will never spot the bad apples. And if an employee can't so much as provide a funeral program or a prayer card, or an obit or something to verify bereavement, why should anyone trust them? It's not like anyone is being asked to go find a notarized certificate signed by the coroner's office and countersigned by the chief of police or something. And yeah, if someone doesn't like a manager verifying things, they are certainly free to look for another job.

 

[Karin1984]

An employer that blindly trusts their employees and doesn't check up on them will never spot the bad apples. And if an employee can't so much as provide a funeral program or a prayer card, or an obit or something to verify bereavement, why should anyone trust them? It's not like anyone is being asked to go find a notarized certificate signed by the coroner's office and countersigned by the chief of police or something. And yeah, if someone doesn't like a manager verifying things, they are certainly free to look for another job.

I am not against verification, but only when needed. Lying about a (close) relative dying is quite an accusation. To me asking for verification in this situation is a rephrasing of: you are lying / I do not trust you.

You can only say your parent died once. If someone uses this excuse more than once, you know you have a bad apple. Lies are hard to keep up, at some moment you will be caught.

Same as with calling in sick. When someone calls on sick once, I would trust that person and not immediately ask for a doctor's note. But if it happens several times in a short period, it is up to the manager or HR to have a talk to see if everything is alright.

To me the cost of the bad apple taking advantage of the system do not outweigh a good working relationship with the good apples. If a good apple is happy becauce of procedures like this, this apple is probably more productive, feels supported and will probably stay longer with the company.

Also, a good manager will know their employees and probably can suspect when someone is lying.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

When someone calls on sick once, I would trust that person and not immediately ask for a doctor's note. But if it happens several times in a short period, it is up to the manager or HR to have a talk to see if everything is alright.

You contradict your own claims about trust. How can you on the one hand speak so grandly about trust between employees and their bosses and then talk about how if someone calls in sick several times in a short period you may ask what's up or a doctor's note. What someone is sick with isn't your business if you trust your employees that is according to you. I'd much rather have a supervisor ask for something for bereavement leave than question me about why I'm calling out sick when I do (which is much more likely to happen to employees and on a more frequent basis).

 

[_19disnA]

An employer that blindly trusts their employees and doesn't check up on them will never spot the bad apples.

I agree. Where I work, the conscientious employees appreciate having reasonable rules that apply to EVERYONE. There are always a few who show up late or constantly make excuses about why they have to leave early on Friday. If there are no rules and no one responsible to enforce them, it encourages the bad apples to see how much they can get away it. Those who work hard/follow the rules resent those who constantly see how much they can get away with if their actions have no consequences.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

On the subject of “reason why” on request forms; It has seemed to be the norm for sometime. The only difference now is , it seems after Covid and the real realization that companies aren’t your family friends etc,
And employees are now like that is unacceptable for a company to such and such. Just because it asks a reason doesn’t mean you have to provide that info.

As restrictive as it was I liked how the insurance company did it. You asked off in a software system for time and if it wasn't available you could then go to get approval from your supervisor or a supervisor if yours wasn't there. If you called in same day which was just to a mass voicemail box you just stated simply that you would not be there and said what the time should be coded as which was usually just PTO. I disliked the metric of same-day to be used against you but not all of my supervisors did that but at least they weren't bugging me about the reason why.

The issue really was when you could use your PTO for longer stretches of time simply because of how they did PTO bids in the year prior. Holiday weeks were the hardest to get and you were usually doing that in October/November of the year prior. Getting Fridays off especially in the summertime were harder as well. But at least I didn't have someone harping at me if I wanted to go shopping on a Wednesday for why I was out or asking me to give them a doctor's note when I didn't go to the doctor in the first place because it's not realistic to go to the doctor for a lot of things really. I think asking for a doctor's note is completely unrealistic these days especially post-pandemic.

 

[lanejudy]

You can only say your parent died once. If someone uses this excuse more than once, you know you have a bad apple. Lies are hard to keep up, at some moment you will be caught.

See, this is where things get very muddy very quickly. You say a person can only use "my parent died" once. However, technically most people have 2 parents. So change your "once" to "twice." But even then... many people have 4 parents because they have step parents (mom & dad divorced then each re-married). Add to this inlaws (MIL/FIL and steps) and suddenly an employee can use the excuse "my parent died" 8 times. Unlikely in the same week, month or even year but possible. And supervisors change so what supervisor is going to keep track of all that? Some lies are very easy...

My own work does not typically request proof of absence for last-minute needs (sick, bereavement, personal day), though planned vacation must be approved in advance. We do technically have rules that "sick" is employee-only and should not be used for sick kid, sick spouse, sick parent, sick dog. When they used to separate "personal days" from "vacation days" everybody used the personal days first because those could be lost if you left the company mid-year while vacation was "earned" and an employee was entitled to be paid upon separation.

Rules vary so much by employer. There is no hard-and-fast rule.

 

[sam_gordon]

I don't know about "calling in drunk". That would seem unlikely unless someone is really still drinking alcohol until early morning. Maybe nursing a hangover?

I've got a good story for "calling in drunk".

I used to be the overnight producer at a TV station. Hours 1a - 9a. When I got married, my coworkers wanted to throw me a bachelor party. My direct coworkers got off shift at 1p. So we scheduled the bachelor party to start at 1p on Thursday (my family was coming in on Friday, wedding on Sunday).

No problem. Best Man came and picked me up, went and met some coworkers at a club, and had some fun for a couple hours. Since we all rode together, we went back to the station around 6p so they could get in their cars. No problem, I was drunk, but had 7 hours before I had to be back in. They wouldn't let me out of the car.

The day shift was now off work and ALSO wanted to celebrate with me. So another group of us get together (including my boss), we go to another club, and I didn't buy a drink that night. Coworkers, including my boss, made sure I had a drink in my hand at all times. I finally begged off around 9-10p (had to be at work at 1a the next morning).

Best man gets me back to my apartment and I basically pass out in the bed. Fiancée gets there around midnight and tries to wake me up. I wake up, but couldn't move. I end up calling in saying I can't make it. The supervisor who took the call tried to convince me to come in. I couldn't. He arranges for me to swap with who was working Saturday morning.

After the wedding and honeymoon, I return, then am given a two day suspension for "calling in drunk". The morning weather guy (who was also at both bachelor parties) actually went on air still drunk. He got suspended also.

In my opinion, since everyone (except me) knew about the 2nd party AND my boss was buying me multiple drinks just hours before my shift starts, they should have already made plans to have someone cover my shift.

I ended staying with that employer for 29 more years.