**UPDATE** Has this happened to any other resale buyers? Fidelity made it right!

[TCRAIG]

I’ve sold contracts where I can see - and by inference - use the points - after closing. Really, as long as they’re visible in the sellers account, they can use them…so, even if the seller sends a screen shot at closing - they can still turn right around and book a reservation using the points or transfer them out…

 

[TheDailyMoo]

I’ve sold contracts where I can see - and by inference - use the points - after closing. Really, as long as they’re visible in the sellers account, they can use them…so, even if the seller sends a screen shot at closing - they can still turn right around and book a reservation using the points or transfer them out…

I really find it crazy that this is even possible. I mean this is basically being run on the honor system lol. So assuming someone had nefarious reasons to sell but keep the points by transferring into another account they could do it and honestly the case would just get tied up in litigation for years probably. Assuming they were going into bankruptcy or the like they could get away with it. Similar vibe to someone getting foreclosed on and stealing all the copper pipes out of the walls before leaving.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Due Dilligence.. because of this gem in the Fidelity contract, technically if there's a mistake, Fidelity can tell you to go pound sand.

And this is why, I choose to buy direct
The broker does not care what happens to the buyer

Unless the buyer wants to take the time and efforts to file a civil complaint, or criminal charges ….

Dishonest, seller can transfer all the points out of a contract for at least the current year and possible the next year too…

 

[aceshigh73]

I really find it crazy that this is even possible. I mean this is basically being run on the honor system lol. So assuming someone had nefarious reasons to sell but keep the points by transferring into another account they could do it and honestly the case would just get tied up in litigation for years probably. Assuming they were going into bankruptcy or the like they could get away with it. Similar vibe to someone getting foreclosed on and stealing all the copper pipes out of the walls before leaving.

This is where, after the 10-day cool-off period, and they waive RoFr, Disney should verify and freeze the contract on their systems. Issue estoppel, and we're good to go. That would have to solve most of these issues.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

This is where, after the 10-day cool-off period, and they waive RoFr, Disney should verify and freeze the contract on their systems. Issue estoppel, and we're good to go. That would have to solve most of these issues.

Zero reason not to do this. Zero

 

[cdirazonian]

This is where, after the 10-day cool-off period, and they waive RoFr, Disney should verify and freeze the contract on their systems. Issue estoppel, and we're good to go. That would have to solve most of these issues.

Yes this would be good. Disney probably wouldn’t do that though until something like this happens to them when taken by ROFR.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Zero reason not to do this. Zero

It’s not Disney’s responsibility.

Disney would be tying up the seller’s assets, without cause.

It could be also be seen as Disney violating the member contract.

What happens if:

The deal falls through,
Or changes,
A party backs out or refuses to pay.

There is no upside for Disney, nor do they have a duty to perform here.

Disney would be opening itself up to liability, to help you do something that is adverse to Disney….

Their answer might be, you are more than welcome to buy from us. Were we can close today, no ROFR, and your points will be in your account tonight.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

Yes this would be good. Disney probably wouldn’t do that though until something like this happens to them when taken by ROFR.

Oh for sure if that happened in a ROFR case Disney would just go in and pluck their points back immediately! But with individuals like us they play the "only the person who made the reservation can cancel it" game. Which I guess they have to play by those rules, although in a case like this if the broker and the closing company tell Disney that the seller is doing wrong that should be enough for Disney to just cancel it without previous owners consent.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Yes this would be good. Disney probably wouldn’t do that though until something like this happens to them when taken by ROFR.

Disney, would not be affected.
Disney, could correct the problem, by canceling the reservation , or withholding the 25 dollars per point from the contract…

In the end Disney always wins

 

[TheDailyMoo]

It’s not Disney’s responsibility.

I don't really agree with this. As long as they condone resale and are a part of the process I think they should do whatever it takes to ensure that any of their members are not wronged or scammed in any way. Not to mention it wouldn't take them any more effort than just freezing an account. I don't see it like you do on this one. How you word it, it sounds like Disney almost wants things like this to happen to make people give up on resale and that would make them almost complicit by inaction. I don't think that's their intent. It's just a typical Disney loophole they have not addressed but probably should.

 

[aceshigh73]

It’s not Disney’s responsibility.

Disney would be tying up the seller’s assets, without cause.

It could be also be seen as Disney violating the member contract.

What happens if:

The deal falls through,
Or changes,
A party backs out or refuses to pay.

There is no upside for Disney, nor do they have a duty to perform here.

Disney would be opening itself up to liability, to help you do something that is adverse to Disney….

Their answer might be, you are more than welcome to buy from us. Were we can close today, no ROFR, and your points will be in your account tonight.

I see what you are saying, but disagree....

If the deal falls through, Title company could just notify Disney and they would unfreeze it.
I mean, they are literally getting the contract in their hands (at their request) and could do this.
Its not like they are randomly freezing contracts. Its a signed and sent contract of sale that they have the option to purchase themselves.

 

[DanCali]

Yes. I just looked at my contract and saw that (in process of small contract with them). Also saw where seller would have to pay $25/pt if missing points, but if seller is already paid funds how are they going to force seller to pay that?


I would be nice if there was some sort of hold or waiting time

This is maybe another reason for a buyer to use, or at least prioritize, the board sponsor as a broker. They are the only broker I've dealt with where the sales contract specifies that the broker (not the seller) will pay the buyer in the event of missing points - at least that's how I understood it. Of course if you see a great deal with another broker, and it's the right use year and right contract size, it's still hard to pass it up, just because of the tiny chance something may go wrong...

 

[tom1944]

I am glad I am looking for an August use year with only 2025 points.


As long as I close prior to August 1 there should be no way they can do any funny business with the 2025 points.

 

[AstroBlasters]

So they transferred points out of the account after ROFR and closing but before the membership # was moved….

 

[TheDailyMoo]

I am glad I am looking for an August use year with only 2025 points.


As long as I close prior to August 1 there should be no way they can do any funny business with the 2025 points.

But it seems they can. In my situation the reservation they mad also borrowed from 2025. It's just crazy this is a possibility in a contracted real estate transaction.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

So they transferred points out of the account after ROFR and closing but before the membership # was moved….

I'm not sure about transferred but I don't know how else you can make a reservation with those points, transfer the contract, but still keep the reservation without actually owning a contract anymore. It seems like a loophole no?

 

[tom1944]

But it seems they can. In my situation the reservation they mad also borrowed from 2025. It's just crazy this is a possibility in a contracted real estate transaction.

But August uy is not eligible to borrow 2025 points yet I thought.

What month was the uy of your contract?


Never mind I realized they can borrow if they book a 2024 vacation within the 7 or 11 month window

 

[TheDailyMoo]

But August uy is not eligible to borrow 2025 points yet I thought.

What month was the uy of your contract?

So it's a June UY. Had 123 points in 2024 and 150 in 2025.

Now there is 123 in 2025 and 150 in 2026. So they were able to make a reservation for sometime next year using the 2024 points and borrowing 2025 points.

 

[JackosinDIS]

But August uy is not eligible to borrow 2025 points yet I thought.

What month was the uy of your contract?


Never mind I realized they can borrow if they book a 2024 vacation within the 7 or 11 month window

If you made a booking for August 24 today, you could borrow August 25 points to do so.

 

[DanCali]

But August uy is not eligible to borrow 2025 points yet I thought.

What month was the uy of your contract?


Never mind I realized they can borrow if they book a 2024 vacation within the 7 or 11 month window

You can borrow 2025 points if the reservation starts after Aug 2024 (and you can make that reservation starting Sep 2023).