When do you realistically think ABD will start operating again?

[abdgeek]

I did mean 2020 Thank you.
I live in NY. So called “cases” are through the roof yet just about no one is sick. I paid with DVC points that have now been tied up for 3 years! They, ABD & DVC, cannot even tell me what will happen to my DVC points if they cancel for the 4th time without me rebooking. At this point it’ has cost me about $1000 to rebook flights. Enough is enough.
I did the ABD Rome tour back in 2008. It was amazing. Was so looking forward to going again, now not so much.

Unfortunately, every configuration of points is different so don’t be too concerned that DVC can’t answer your questions about what will happen to your points if they cancel. They truly don’t know until it happens. I was in your situation when my ABD River Cruise & Short Escape that I booked for June 2020 was canceled, rebooked for June 2021, and again canceled by ABD. I was allowed to book NZ for Dec. 2022 using those same points(I owed a couple more for the new trip). What was explained to me then was that DVC had converted my points to cash and paid ABD back in 2020 for my trip, so everything being done was behind the scenes.

DO NOT cancel your trip! Let ABD cancel it. You can then call DVC and reschedule for another trip using those points. If you decide not to rebook, you will need to use the points by the end of your use year or you lose them.

 

[JGM]

Unfortunately, every configuration of points is different so don’t be too concerned that DVC can’t answer your questions about what will happen to your points if they cancel. They truly don’t know until it happens. I was in your situation when my ABD River Cruise & Short Escape that I booked for June 2020 was canceled, rebooked for June 2021, and again canceled by ABD. I was allowed to book NZ for Dec. 2022 using those same points(I owed a couple more for the new trip). What was explained to me then was that DVC had converted my points to cash and paid ABD back in 2020 for my trip, so everything being done was behind the scenes.

DO NOT cancel your trip! Let ABD cancel it. You can then call DVC and reschedule for another trip using those points. If you decide not to rebook, you will need to use the points by the end of your use year or you lose them.

You just nailed the exact problem and why DVC & ABD cannot tell me what will happen to my points. They were 2019 and 2020 use year points. Which as you know are now “expired”. ABD has cancelled all Italy trips up to April. We are now the very first trip scheduled. Not holding my breath. If they cancel this time I’m done with ABD. They can run parks all over the world but can’t take 30-40 on a tour? BS.

 

[abdgeek]

... If they cancel this time I’m done with ABD. They can run parks all over the world but can’t take 30-40 on a tour? BS.

I definitely understand your frustration that DVC/ABDs processes/policies during the pandemic have not allowed people to be as proactive in rescheduling or canceling their trips as their comfort zone allows. ABD got a lot of bad press when the pandemic began and they allowed the Australia trip to go and then it was cancelled before some people got there. IMO, Disney has always been risk averse so that incident has made them more cautious now.

When I had to start moving trips, I asked my sister who has worked in Public Health when I would be able to travel internationally again. She said 2023/24 and I told her she was crazy. Of course, she was right. The travel industry has always forecasted that travel will not return to normal until 2024/25. That being said, I still have a trip planned to Bali this summer that I booked myself. I hope they will be open to US visitors by then and that I can travel. If I can't, oh well. My travel insurance covers a specific amount for lodging, etc. if I am not able to return due to testing positive and having to quarantine. It has surprised me that, to my knowledge, ABD has not required customers to purchase a policy for their trips that covers them for this. The last thing you want to do is take a trip, pay thousands of dollars, and then have to pay thousands more to quarantine in a foreign country because you got Covid. The Points Guy has posted several articles about their writers who have traveled internationally to countries who have tested positive when they wanted to return and had to quarantine. Their experiences have been interesting and definitely not something I want to have to go through.

ABD sent a survey out last year asking people what their non-negotiables were for going on an ABD during the pandemic. Some of the options were full vaccination of guests and guides, face mask requirements, and not traveling to a Level 4 advisory country. It appears they have taken those suggestions to heart. I'm not going to be mad with ABD if they cancel my December trip because they don't feel it can be done safely or that they can't keep me safe. I'll be disappointed, but will understand and will move those points to another trip. Good luck with your trip planning.

 

[disneytwincesses]

Here is the problem, the state department levels I disagree with. Everything else you mentioned ABD is doing. My issue is if ABD knows they aren't going, they need to stop booking and moving people's money around with promises to go the next time. DCL got a lot of complaints too that they were using deposits and PIF people who got canceled to keep their business afloat. It looks greedy, but as my disney co worker said.....who expected less from Disney leadership lately.

 

[JGM]

It’s a joke. The USA is Level 4+. Disney has parks around the world open that allow people from around the world in. If they cancel my April 4th Italy trip for the 4th time I’m done with ABD.

 

[sayhello]

It’s a joke. The USA is Level 4+. Disney has parks around the world open that allow people from around the world in. If they cancel my April 4th Italy trip for the 4th time I’m done with ABD.

You know, I'm not necessarily defending ABD, because heaven knows they have not handled a lot of things with this pandemic well. But have you asked them why they draw the line at a countries being a Level 4? Running a park and running a tour are two VERY different things. You have Adventure Guides who for the most part do not live in the countries where the trip is occurring who have to get from the US or another country to that country, then possibly to another country. What happens if your Adventure Guide arrives and tests positive before the trip starts? What happens if they were supposed to go from another country to where your trip is, and can't get there because they can't cross the border or get on a plane? Heck, maybe it's written in the Adventure Guide's contracts that they're not allowed to work in a country that's a Level 4. Unless you know the answers to these questions, calling it a joke is not helpful. It may be that the reason is very, very serious. I get that it's frustrating. Not knowing what's going on behind the scenes, it appears random to you. And maybe it is. But have you asked? If ABD refuses to tell you why the policy is in place, then I agree with you. But until then, saying that an unrelated division of Disney is working differently than ABD is, just isn't relevant.

Sayhello

 

[JGM]

You know, I'm not necessarily defending ABD, because heaven knows they have not handled a lot of things with this pandemic well. But have you asked them why they draw the line at a countries being a Level 4? Running a park and running a tour are two VERY different things. You have Adventure Guides who for the most part do not live in the countries where the trip is occurring who have to get from the US or another country to that country, then possibly to another country. What happens if your Adventure Guide arrives and tests positive before the trip starts? What happens if they were supposed to go from another country to where your trip is, and can't get there because they can't cross the border or get on a plane? Heck, maybe it's written in the Adventure Guide's contracts that they're not allowed to work in a country that's a Level 4. Unless you know the answers to these questions, calling it a joke is not helpful. It may be that the reason is very, very serious. I get that it's frustrating. Not knowing what's going on behind the scenes, it appears random to you. And maybe it is. But have you asked? If ABD refuses to tell you why the policy is in place, then I agree with you. But until then, saying that an unrelated division of Disney is working differently than ABD is, just isn't relevant.

Sayhello

‘That just sounds like a long winded excuse. On my previous ABD trips the guides were specific to that tour. Additionally ABD had had 2 years to address that issue if it’s even an issue. You‘re right operating a Park that has over a 100,000 visitors a day is far worse then running a tour with a couple of dozen people.

 

[sayhello]

‘That just sounds like a long winded excuse. On my previous ABD trips the guides were specific to that tour. Additionally ABD had had 2 years to address that issue if it’s even an issue. You‘re right operating a Park that has over a 100,000 visitors a day is far worse then running a tour with a couple of dozen people.

It's a long winded excuse if you want to be angry. Which I can totally understand.

On all of my ABDs, at *least* one of the Adventure Guides has been an American, sometimes they both were. And Adventure Guides often jump from trip to trip and country to country during a season. I'm friends with several Adventure Guides, and have seen them posting about where they are this week, where they will be next week, who will be joining them which month, etc. They are VERY rarely specific to a tour unless they are native to that country. And the Adventure Guides who are native to the country are usually paired up with an American Adventure Guide.

Sayhello

 

[JGM]

It's a long winded excuse if you want to be angry. Which I can totally understand.

On all of my ABDs, at *least* one of the Adventure Guides has been an American, sometimes they both were. And Adventure Guides often jump from trip to trip and country to country during a season. I'm friends with several Adventure Guides, and have seen them posting about where they are this week, where they will be next week, who will be joining them which month, etc. They are VERY rarely specific to a tour unless they are native to that country. And the Adventure Guides who are native to the country are usually paired up with an American Adventure Guide.

Sayhello

Again that was how long ago? ABD has had 2 years to address this if it is even an issue. With such a limited amount of tours running seems it would be even less an issue. Plus the Italy “season” is year round. On top of that ABD runs 4 different Italy tours which makes the guide excuse even more moot.

 

[neurosx1983]

As I said in a post I think somewhere else, if you feel strongly about going somewhere in Europe that is category four, which is basically the entire continent, you should still consider going on your own. You can replicate a lot of the same things from the Italy trip on your own (Yes even the Vatican after hours tour). I’m going to the UK in March which is category four. We cant always wait for ABD because as was pointed out there might be much more behind them not being able to go to a certain country. I get that it’s frustrating. If you want to go to Italy, go to Italy ! You don’t need ABD… Have you even looked at other companies like A&K? Or just do it OYO. You'll also probably make out cheaper.

 

[JGM]

As I said in a post I think somewhere else, if you feel strongly about going somewhere in Europe that is category four, which is basically the entire continent, you should still consider going on your own. You can replicate a lot of the same things from the Italy trip on your own (Yes even the Vatican after hours tour). I’m going to the UK in March which is category four. We cant always wait for ABD because as was pointed out there might be much more behind them not being able to go to a certain country. I get that it’s frustrating. If you want to go to Italy, go to Italy ! You don’t need ABD… Have you even looked at other companies like A&K? Or just do it OYO. You'll also probably make out cheaper.

I so agree with you, seems like the entire world is Level 4. I would go on my own but ABD/DVC are holding about 1500 points hostage. About 2.5 years worth of DVC points. At this point I would be happy with getting points back.

 

[sayhello]

Again that was how long ago? ABD has had 2 years to address this if it is even an issue. With such a limited amount of tours running seems it would be even less an issue. Plus the Italy “season” is year round. On top of that ABD runs 4 different Italy tours which makes the guide excuse even more moot.

You know, I just gave the Adventure Guide situation as a possible example. Unless you've run an international tour company, you don't know what all the ins and outs of running a tour in a foreign country involve. There could be legal requirements of the foreign country that they have to comply with or EU requirements or who knows what. If I remember correctly, ABD had issues running a tour that was just in Canada because Canada required all tour Guides to be Canadians certified as a Canadian Guide. Stuff like that. We just don't know what's behind it. The chances that it's just some arbitrary rule that ABD came up with so that they could get out of running trips is highly unlikely. Not impossible, but highly unlikely. If they really wanted to not run trips, they can just cancel them and give you a refund. And the fact that it's been 2 years doesn't mean much when the circumstances and the rules are constantly changing.

I really think if your trip gets cancelled this time, you need to get a refund of your points, and like @neurosx1983 suggested, go on your own. Personally, I took a refund the first time my trip was cancelled and will not book an international trip until things are much more stable. But that's just me.

Sayhello

 

[BadPinkTink]

You know, I just gave the Adventure Guide situation as a possible example. Unless you've run an international tour company, you don't know what all the ins and outs of running a tour in a foreign country involve. There could be legal requirements of the foreign country that they have to comply with or EU requirements or who knows what. If I remember correctly, ABD had issues running a tour that was just in Canada because Canada required all tour Guides to be Canadians certified as a Canadian Guide. Stuff like that. We just don't know what's behind it. The chances that it's just some arbitrary rule that ABD came up with so that they could get out of running trips is highly unlikely. Not impossible, but highly unlikely. If they really wanted to not run trips, they can just cancel them and give you a refund. And the fact that it's been 2 years doesn't mean much when the circumstances and the rules are constantly changing.

I really think if your trip gets cancelled this time, you need to get a refund of your points, and like @neurosx1983 suggested, go on your own. Personally, I took a refund the first time my trip was cancelled and will not book an international trip until things are much more stable. But that's just me.

Sayhello

Italy has the same rules. I went on a Contiki tour in Europe years ago, started and ended in London, and went to various places in France, Germany, Austria, Italy and Switzerland. In Italy our tour guide had to pretend to be just part of our group when she brought us around Rome and The Vatican, as she didn't have the official credentials and had to be on the down low.

 

[abdgeek]

I so agree with you, seems like the entire world is Level 4. I would go on my own but ABD/DVC are holding about 1500 points hostage. About 2.5 years worth of DVC points. At this point I would be happy with getting points back.

Make sure you‘ve done your homework and confirm with DVC what the regulations are with regards to your points if ABD cancels your trip and you decide not to book another ABD with them. Unless the policies have changed, your refunded points will expire at the end of your use year if not used. They can also only be used to book certain things.

 

[JGM]

Make sure you‘ve done your homework and confirm with DVC what the regulations are with regards to your points if ABD cancels your trip and you decide not to book another ABD with them. Unless the policies have changed, your refunded points will expire at the end of your use year if not used. They can also only be used to book certain things.

You nailed it. As I’ve mentioned earlier points were from 2019 and 2020 which are now “expired” neither ABD nor DVC has an answer. At this point I’ll take the points back then book 2 weeks at a Polynesian resort Bora Bora bungalow.

 

[disneytwincesses]

If ABD takes your trip off the website that is in April is that a sign it is probably going to be canceled? My TA has not heard anything.

 

[JGM]

Yep they cancelled more trips. Mine cancelled for 4th time. I’m done with ABD

 

[disneytwincesses]

Yep they cancelled more trips. Mine cancelled for 4th time. I’m done with ABD

I think we are on the same trip April 5-12 Italy, I didn't hear anything yet. Did you get something?

I will be honest, I am slowly backing away from Italy right now and taking the refund. Italy has a new rule to sleep in hotels and even eat outside, you have to have a vaccine within six months. So for many of us fall booster folks, that is a huge problem. The rule starts Feb 1. Abd had NO CLUE when I called them to ask about this. My TA even talked to a supervisor. A friend of mine going to Italy in May with ABD called freaking out and ABD said they didn't know what to tell her and the hotels ABD has will not allow an extended stay for positive covid so you have to go to a government run Italy hotel which I heard is a horror story. I can see why ABD is freaking out a little. Italy literally just changed the rules on them.

 

[JGM]

Yes we were on same trip confirmed cancelled. ABD doesn’t seem to know much about much. I’m not rebooking with them.
As for the vaccine IMO it’s useless, everyone in our house is triple vaccinated and we all had it during Christmas. Same as my unvaccinated friends it was just like having the flu for 2 days. Frustrating to say the least. Been on with DVD for over an hour now as they have no clue what to do. I’ll update if this call ever ends

 

[disneytwincesses]

Yes we were on same trip confirmed cancelled. ABD doesn’t seem to know much about much. I’m not rebooking with them.
As for the vaccine IMO it’s useless, everyone in our house is triple vaccinated and we all had it during Christmas. Same as my unvaccinated friends it was just like having the flu for 2 days. Frustrating to say the least. Been on with DVD for over an hour now as they have no clue what to do. I’ll update if this call ever ends

I understand but I am going to be OK by a week, but I know some people had to have it in early October and that isn't going to work over there. They did say Italy has been all over the place and then changeing rules last minute. I can understand what a mess that is. I also know they are being strict if you test positive, even with no symptoms. 7 day isolation in a hotel room of the government designation if your hotel won't let you stay. No outside walks, no help or outside food delivery, nothing. If you test positive again day 7, that is another seven days up to 21 days. :/ A friend of mine called the ABD hotels for Italy/Amfi coast trip and none are letting covid positive people stay, they would transport you to the dreaded government run hotel.