When to repair a car vs cut losses and buy a new one? Update page 2

[Gumbo4x4]

Head gaskets repairs are expensive.

Not necessarily. I had one replaced for $200 once and that included milling the head. The issue is that a Highlander has a V6 turned sideways same as a Camry. We had the same thing with our Acadia. Valve cover gasket has a minor leak & its on the "tough" side. $2,600 to replace a 50 cent gasket. Were it on the front side (or on either side on my truck), the cost would be less than $100. BTW, 50,000+ miles later, the "leak" still hasn't left a drop of oil in our driveway.

OP, the dealer hasn't even located the source of the leakage, and they want to replace every possible thing that "might" be the cause. Find another mechanic.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Not necessarily. I had one replaced for $200 once and that included milling the head. The issue is that a Highlander has a V6 turned sideways same as a Camry. We had the same thing with our Acadia. Valve cover gasket has a minor leak & its on the "tough" side. $2,600 to replace a 50 cent gasket. Were it on the front side (or on either side on my truck), the cost would be less than $100. BTW, 50,000+ miles later, the "leak" still hasn't left a drop of oil in our driveway.

OP, the dealer hasn't even located the source of the leakage, and they want to replace every possible thing that "might" be the cause. Find another mechanic.

I stand by my statement that it's an expensive repair.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I stand by my statement that it's an expensive repair.

The point is that the price of a head gasket repair is HIGHLY dependent on the model of car, the engine, and in the case of a sideways mounted engine which cylinder bank is affected.

The OP's car has a sideways mounted V6. A V6 has 2 heads (like a V8), 1 for each cylinder bank. Replacing the gasket on the cowl side (windshield side) is going to be WAY more expensive because of the labor involved in getting TO that side of the engine. I would not be surprised to find that the price difference from one bank to the other is ten-fold or worse.

In the case of my previously mentioned truck, the access to the cylinder heads is quite good. With a basic set of tools, a couple loaners from the parts store, and access to youtube, someone with very basic mechanical knowledge could replace BOTH gaskets for $38 worth of parts. OR, one could pay a shop about $300-400 to do it.

So, while $300-400 may or may not be "expensive", it's relatively cheap compared to the $3,500+ the same repair might cost on a different car.

 

[xlxo]

before replacing the gasket.... my mechanic used a oil thickener for a few years.

Sometimes it's just simply retightening the bolts.

 

[EveDallas]

Unfortunately, dealerships are notorious for inflating prices. I would never go to one unless the car was under warranty and it was free.

 

[3boymthr]

Did you get a breakdown of costs? How much for each? As PP mentioned sometimes because of where the items are located the cost of repair has nothing to do with the actual parts but with the location on the engine. Because of where they are replacing my spark plugs cost almost $1,000! We shopped it around and everywhere we went the price was within $100. My local garage didn't even want to do it because it's such a time consuming maintenance item.

You may also have nothing wrong with your timing. The repair to the timing may be because it has to be removed or adjusted to get to the other items. I had to replace the water pump on one of my cars one time because fluid was literally pouring out if it. The original quote was cost of the pump (less than $100) plus labor. Well....because of where it was they also had to replace the timing belt - they literally had to cut off the belt to fix the water pump. The belt and the time to remove it, then replace it then adjust the timing plus the work to fix the pump cost $800 and this was in the 80s. In the 90s I had to replace the head gasket on one of my cars. At the time the cost was $2,500 because they had to remove the engine from the car to get to the gasket. Lucky for me the car was under warranty (100,000 powertrain).

 

[BLAZEY]

I just had the thermostat and had the timing belt replaced at the same time on my 2002 Acura 1.7EL at the dealership last year. I knew this was coming my car had 110,000 KM on it. They said the timing belt would need to be replaced soon (the thermostat was shot as the car had been running hot) and that it would be cheaper to do now while doing the thermostat and water pump labour wise. Total $900, and now I don't have to worry about the timing belt.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't trust dealers very much nor do I trust bigger chain mechanic places.

I was very fortunate that the first mechanic who worked on my car was at a chain place but was very very honest about work he did. He knew I was on a tighter budget and would go over what work truly needed done along with would the work need to be immediately done or be something that could wait. I actually followed him to 2 other mechanic places too that he ended up working at. Unfortunately he stopped working as a mechanic and now just does side work for people he knows (he actually did my oil change for me last year at his house!).

Just as an example one time I went to a place to get my oil change and they said I needed new brakes and whatnot to the tune of over $350 dollars on top of the oil change. I declined then took it into my mechanic and he looked it all over. He was like "No way do you need new brakes"...those brakes lasted nearly 2 years after that.

My car is a 2002 Ford Escort ZX2 and has about 135,000 miles on it. When I bought it in Dec 2005 it had 54,000 miles on it. While the car has had weird issues with it and some years it has cost me $1,000-$1,500 in repairs over the course of the year it has lasted me. For reference I bought it for $7,000 taxes, dealers fees and all with a cashier's check for the full amount. The Kelly Blue Book value at that time was $6,995.00. It may not be an opinion shared by many but at least at this time the amount I pay in repairs (which some years it's nothing other years it's the $1,000-$1,500 range) is dramatically less than I would spend on car payments unless I got a very very very inexpensive used car.

I would get a second if not third opinion before doing anything personally.

 

[mousehockey37]

I just went through this as well.

I had a 2004 Chevy Cavalier. It had almost 200,000 miles on it and my DGF's dad was a mechanic. The car was paid off in 2010 and it was nice not having a payment, but... as it got older, and more things started to happen, it was just a matter of time. It still ran well and everything, but the game of wondering "what next" was getting to me. Also, her dad also said that last year would've been the last time it would've made it through inspection. So yeah, needless to say, I now have a new-to-me car, lol.

The best advice I can offer to the OP is... at $4500... if that's all that happens with the car this year, that doesn't seem worth dumping it and getting something else.

 

[mtemm]

Update! Dh just heard from mechanic. Said the only thing he would suggest, and is not necessarily urgent, is the water pump ($900). We are going to pick up car in a bit and I can ask any questions then. I really wonder why the difference, but am so relieved. I will go ahead and schedule the water pump and I will ask about doing the thermostat as well since a few have recommended that being a good thing to do. So here is to hoping this car has a long life ahead.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Update! Dh just heard from mechanic. Said the only thing he would suggest, and is not necessarily urgent, is the water pump ($900). We are going to pick up car in a bit and I can ask any questions then. I really wonder why the difference, but am so relieved. I will go ahead and schedule the water pump and I will ask about doing the thermostat as well since a few have recommended that being a good thing to do. So here is to hoping this car has a long life ahead.

Such is the world of car repair..on average dealerships push repairs that are not needed or are not urgent..they also charge $$. Unfortunately places also still look at a female and see $$$$$ (seems to be my experience at least).

 

[Klayfish]

Update! Dh just heard from mechanic. Said the only thing he would suggest, and is not necessarily urgent, is the water pump ($900). We are going to pick up car in a bit and I can ask any questions then. I really wonder why the difference, but am so relieved. I will go ahead and schedule the water pump and I will ask about doing the thermostat as well since a few have recommended that being a good thing to do. So here is to hoping this car has a long life ahead.

Glad to hear it. The reason for the difference is the dealer is going to try to upsell. They'll do every last thing the manufacturer "recommends" and then some. If the valve cover gasket is seeping even the tiniest bit of oil, which isn't really a big deal, they'll quote you to fix it. And their labor rates are very, very high.

Water pump isn't a bad thing to have done. And if they do the water pump, they have to drain the cooling system anyway, so may as well do the thermostat, it's incredibly cheap to do. I have no doubt your car has a really long life ahead of it.

 

[BrianL]

Hopefully, I can help. Cars are my life, literally. First, I'd say a 2008 Highlander with only 100k miles on it is barely broken in. Those things are good for 250k+ miles easily without needing anything truly major. Sure, things can happen, but the chances are slim with this vehicle. Remember, the Highlander is essentially a Toyota Camry station wagon....they share the same platform, powertrain, etc... Unbreakable car.

I would also very highly question the mechanic who gave you that quote. Head gasket? Are you seeing any white smoke out your tailpipe? Have someone check your coolant and/or oil. Do either of them look like a chocolate milkshake? If no, then you probably don't have a head gasket issue. Those would be very uncommon issues for a Camry/Highlander. A valve cover gasket seeping...sure, maybe. Head gasket? I won't say impossible, because it can happen, but unlikely. And if it's just "seeping", not the end of the world. All cars use gaskets. Over time, they can start to rot and they'll seep a bit. If it's just a little seepage, just drive it. If it's truly leaking, fix it. Whatever you do, DO NOT put blue devil or other "stop leak" stuff in your oil. It will create more problems in the long run than it solves.

Timing belt/chain covers can seep oil too, again, not really a big deal. If it has to be replaced, it's not horribly expensive. Water pumps are wear items, all cars need them replaced eventually. 100k is a bit early, you should be able to go to 150k.

I'd also suggest getting a quote from an independent mechanic, it'll cost you a ton less.

If you want a new car because you WANT one, then that's a personal decision and no arguing that. But financially, I'd say your car is far, far away from reaching that point.

Hey, Klayfish, not to hijack, but this thread title caught my eye because I am in a similar situation. My 2002 Celica recently had the oil light come on so I took it in for an oil change. Now it had been almost a year since my last one, but I live close to work and don't put a lot of miles on it. They told me that they pulled about 1 quart out of her and that I had a leak in the "cylinder head" and "behind the timing chain." I have not gotten an estimate yet because they told me they could only handle that at the other location. I expect it to be expensive though, and I am wondering if it is even worth it for a 15 year old car (just under 100,000 miles on it). It has other cosmetic issues too, but the engine has always been solid. I know the leak is slow, so am just driving it for now and there are no performance issues or smoke or anything like that. I generally trust this mechanic, but I don't know enough about cars to judge. I am thinking it may cost around $2,000. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[mtemm]

Just picked car up and mechanic even said water pump isn't urgent but the timing works for me so having it done on Monday. He is going to do thermostat too, might as well. Thanks again everyone for your insights. Glad I am not having to make any hard decisions after all. And glad I have a good local mechanic...who will be getting my business from now on

 

[Turn the Page]

I was in this situation just this past October. I had a 2008 Jeep Patriot. I had been telling my brother (who is my mechanic) that it was making a funny noise, sounded like a wind up toy, but he listened to it some time last summer and said he didn't hear anything and it was fine so I said ok. I took it in for an oil change in October, he took it for a spin around the block and said it needed a crap ton of work all of a sudden.

It had 180,000 miles and needed the oil change, front brakes (and maybe rear brakes too), front struts, an alternator, and a few other odds and ends to the tune of a little over $2000 plus I would need a good set of snow tires for the winter. We had been talking about trading it in on something this spring anyway so I asked him how much doing all the repairs would add to the trade in value and he said absolutely nothing. So we decided to cut our loses and trade it in and it's a good thing we did because that vehicle would not have handled the snow at our house well. It was terrible on snow covered hills and the kids would have missed a lot of school this year.

 

[Marchand63]

Update! Dh just heard from mechanic. Said the only thing he would suggest, and is not necessarily urgent, is the water pump ($900). We are going to pick up car in a bit and I can ask any questions then. I really wonder why the difference, but am so relieved. I will go ahead and schedule the water pump and I will ask about doing the thermostat as well since a few have recommended that being a good thing to do. So here is to hoping this car has a long life ahead.

We went through this with dealership also. Their estimate $2700 or mechanic actual cost $580. Our mechanic explained that dealerships & big chains set a price for every task whether it costs that or not. They estimate time it takes for repair not the actual time it takes. So dealership says it takes 3 hours when it actually takes 1, you still pay the 3. They mark up the price of parts by as much as 200%.

 

[Klayfish]

Hey, Klayfish, not to hijack, but this thread title caught my eye because I am in a similar situation. My 2002 Celica recently had the oil light come on so I took it in for an oil change. Now it had been almost a year since my last one, but I live close to work and don't put a lot of miles on it. They told me that they pulled about 1 quart out of her and that I had a leak in the "cylinder head" and "behind the timing chain." I have not gotten an estimate yet because they told me they could only handle that at the other location. I expect it to be expensive though, and I am wondering if it is even worth it for a 15 year old car (just under 100,000 miles on it). It has other cosmetic issues too, but the engine has always been solid. I know the leak is slow, so am just driving it for now and there are no performance issues or smoke or anything like that. I generally trust this mechanic, but I don't know enough about cars to judge. I am thinking it may cost around $2,000. Any advice is appreciated.

Got it. About to walk out the door to take DD9 to lacrosse practice. All 3 kids have practice today, will jump on later tonight.

 

[DawnM]

I am glad you figured it out.

For us, DH knows cars, so he knows what things need repair and what things don't. He will do the work himself if he has the time.

Our typical "when to get rid of a car" theory has to do with the car's value. When the repairs cost more than the car is worth, we get rid of it.

We just got rid of a 2002 Saturn VUE. It needed about $2000 in repairs. AND was not as reliable for commuting. So, we got a "new to us" Prius this year.

We still have a 2004 Sequoia that runs fine and had over 150,000 miles. We actually spent $3,000 or so to replace, repair, and rebuild parts for it two years ago, so it is almost like a new car under the hood. DH did the work himself and we had the thing up on blocks for 8 months because he just didn't have the time to do all the work at once.

 

[Klayfish]

Hey, Klayfish, not to hijack, but this thread title caught my eye because I am in a similar situation. My 2002 Celica recently had the oil light come on so I took it in for an oil change. Now it had been almost a year since my last one, but I live close to work and don't put a lot of miles on it. They told me that they pulled about 1 quart out of her and that I had a leak in the "cylinder head" and "behind the timing chain." I have not gotten an estimate yet because they told me they could only handle that at the other location. I expect it to be expensive though, and I am wondering if it is even worth it for a 15 year old car (just under 100,000 miles on it). It has other cosmetic issues too, but the engine has always been solid. I know the leak is slow, so am just driving it for now and there are no performance issues or smoke or anything like that. I generally trust this mechanic, but I don't know enough about cars to judge. I am thinking it may cost around $2,000. Any advice is appreciated.

The Celica is known as being nearly indestructible...and tons of fun. Neat car. Hopefully you didn't damage the engine by running it low on oil. That warning light usually won't come on until you're really low, and if you only had one quart left you were really low. But that little 4 cylinder engine is a trooper, so hopefully you'll be fine (you'll know quickly if it's damaged). There are a lot of things within the cylinder head. I would guess you have what are called "valve steam seals" wearing out. That will allow your engine to burn some oil. You may not notice the smoke if it doesn't burn enough at once, but it will still use it. Leaking around the timing chain cover is also fairly common...seals dry out as they age, especially if the car isn't driven much. If it's just the gasket around the cover that's leaking, it's a relatively cheap and easy repair. If the valve stem seals are leaking, that's more expensive. However, as long as it's not blowing smoke like it was trying to kill mosquitos and you keep an eye on your oil level (check it every month or so and add a little oil as needed) you can live with it like that virtually for ever. You're not really going to hurt the car by driving it that way, as long as you don't run it out of oil. So if that's the issue, you don't "have" to fix it, it can drive just fine that way.

Best thing I'd suggest is to get more clarity from a mechanic as to where the issue in the head is. Is it leaking externally? If there are no visible external leaks, then by default it's burning it internally (which is where my valve stem seal guess comes from...it's common). Then go from there. But either way, sounds more like a nuisance thing than something that MUST be dealt with. Most Celicas can go 250k+ miles. Toyotas in general are quite bulletproof. Darn shame they killed off the Celica and MR2. Left them without anything remotely sporty. They now have what was the Scion FR-S and is now a Toyota badge, but I'm not a fan.

 

[tvguy]

Our typical "when to get rid of a car" theory has to do with the car's value. When the repairs cost more than the car is worth, we get rid of it.

We just got rid of a 2002 Saturn VUE. It needed about $2000 in repairs. AND was not as reliable for commuting. So, we got a "new to us" Prius this year.
.

LOL. I think the cost of new tires on my Suburban is more than what it is worth. Probably has been for the last 3 sets of tires, but each of those sets of tires got me another 6 years on the road. Sales tax alone on a replacement car would be twice as much money, not even count the cost of the vehicle.
I look for the lowest cost per mile I just expect my cars to be worth nothing when I get rid of them.
Extensive collision damage or rust excepted, it is almost always cheaper to fix and replace over the long haul. I say almost, but in 44 years of car ownership, I have never seen a repair that wasn't cheaper than replacing the car.