RANT: I don't care if you want to sit next to your kids on the airplane

[bcla]

I do vacation closer to home as well.
We don't have these issue with non US based airlines(and to be honest we don't really have this problem with our status within the alliance we fly anyway, but I do think it is an issue for others).
It's funny how Americans are saying "it has to be done this way" when basically everywhere else does it differently-I do not pay to choose my seats flying in mom US airlines and they also dont charge extra for window or aisle. There is economy, premium economy and business that's it.
The first couple of rows of economy (at least domestically) are reserved for status members only but otherwise everyone has the option to choose their seat when you buy your ticket.

Well - as an aside I guess there have been rumblings about a possible Disney park in Australia. Not that it would that likely given the limited population that one might serve, but would you we considering that if it were built?

 

[mummabear]

Actually, I don't think anyone is saying that. The airlines have decided to charge for "extras" (checked luggage, more seat space, certain seats, etc). Those who don't need those "extras" get to save a little bit of money. Those who want the extras pay for it. It's a business decision the airlines have made.

But you haven't saved, theybhave just made it more expensive to add options.

 

[mummabear]

Well - as an aside I guess there have been rumblings about a possible Disney park in Australia. Not that it would that likely given the limited population that one might serve, but would you we considering that if it were built?

I doubt it will happen, but if it does yes we would go, but we would still visit US parks as well.
At the end of the day Disney is just one of the places we travel to.

 

[sam_gordon]

But you haven't saved, theybhave just made it more expensive to add options.

A person who doesn't get the extras pays less than someone who does. They might consider themselves "saving money". Regardless, no one is saying "it has to be this way" which is what you claimed.

 

[JadeDarkstar]

I am sorry but it would have depended on the child's age and if I could switch.
I know we all 3 picked our seats and will sit together on the flight I got but I may upcharge the seats I have but it is only 2 rows up so I am not sure its worth it.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Actually, I don't think anyone is saying that. The airlines have decided to charge for "extras" (checked luggage, more seat space, certain seats, etc). Those who don't need those "extras" get to save a little bit of money. Those who want the extras pay for it. It's a business decision the airlines have made.

Yes. And it's not strictly an American thing. Low cost European airlines do the same thing, and they were doing it before American companies started. It's the business model. Now the legacy airlines have started because it at least gives them the appearance of being competitive to the ultra low cost carriers. They do it because people will pay. And they do it because they can afford to- out here, I don't think ULCCs are really that cheap. They've undercut the legacies by relatively little money. It's just that people will go for that tiny savings. So legacies can offer unbundled fares and get the select audience that really doesn't care about selecting seats or carryone luggage but still prefer the legacy carriers.

 

[kaytieeldr]

. I care for 3 reasons; first it's my child, second what if there was an emergency and third because you can't trust people today. In my line of work I have seen it all and there is no way my child is sitting with strangers. Again I pay, plan and prepare to do this, I don't expect the airline to accommodate me nor other passengers.

Okay, yes, it's your child. Do you never let your child farther than arm's length from you, ever?
Second, what is your expectation in an emergency when your child is not within your perview and why do you have so little/no faith that anyone physically adjacent to your child not to help in an emergency
Third, about 90% of what people consider stranger danger is actually acquaintance danger.

 

[JodyLynC]

Okay, yes, it's your child. Do you never let your child farther than arm's length from you, ever?
Second, what is your expectation in an emergency when your child is not within your perview and why do you have so little/no faith that anyone physically adjacent to your child not to help in an emergency
Third, about 90% of what people consider stranger danger is actually acquaintance danger.

Which means that 10% is still stranger danger. There have been recent cases of children being groped or intimidated on airplanes. I believe these were unaccompanied minors. Does that mean that our children should never be alone? No. It means that these situations do occur. Talking over all dangers with your children before boarding a plane is important. Practice these things at home. Particularly if your child is younger. What to do if you get separated. How to use the mask should it drop. What to do if someone gets in your space or makes you uncomfortable. How to get out of the plane should an emergency occur. Keeping your seat belt on when seated. Where the toilet is located and how to use it. I'm sure there are other topics others can provide.

 

[Gracie09]

Which means that 10% is still stranger danger. There have been recent cases of children being groped or intimidated on airplanes. I believe these were unaccompanied minors. Does that mean that our children should never be alone? No. It means that these situations do occur. Talking over all dangers with your children before boarding a plane is important. Practice these things at home. Particularly if your child is younger. What to do if you get separated. How to use the mask should it drop. What to do if someone gets in your space or makes you uncomfortable. How to get out of the plane should an emergency occur. Keeping your seat belt on when seated. Where the toilet is located and how to use it. I'm sure there are other topics others can provide.

The vast majority - like 99% of molestation or kidnapping is done my people you know and trust. Relatives, friends coaches clergy etc. the scary man on the plane not even a blip in the numbers. The center for missing and exploited children has stopped teaching stranger danger because in an emergency the stranger is likely your help.

 

[JodyLynC]

The vast majority - like 99% of molestation or kidnapping is done my people you know and trust. Relatives, friends coaches clergy etc. the scary man on the plane not even a blip in the numbers. The center for missing and exploited children has stopped teaching stranger danger because in an emergency the stranger is likely your help.

I am not talking about molestation or kidnapping here so that is not up for debate. I am talking about things that could happen on an airplane and discussing it with your child beforehand.

 

[ConnecticutFlea]

Actually - the last time I paid an upcharge was on Spirit for their "Big Seat". That was for all three of us including our then three year old. It also included seat selection for maybe $12 each seat. That was well worth it.

How would you feel if someone asked you to give up the aisle seat you had paid an upcharge for to sit in a middle seat by yourself in the back of the plane? Your wife would still be sitting next to your child. Let's say this person felt they needed an aisle seat because of height or some disability, but didn't want to pay the extra $12. Would you change despite spending extra for your seat?

 

[Nancyg56]

Which means that 10% is still stranger danger. There have been recent cases of children being groped or intimidated on airplanes. I believe these were unaccompanied minors. Does that mean that our children should never be alone? No. It means that these situations do occur. Talking over all dangers with your children before boarding a plane is important. Practice these things at home. Particularly if your child is younger. What to do if you get separated. How to use the mask should it drop. What to do if someone gets in your space or makes you uncomfortable. How to get out of the plane should an emergency occur. Keeping your seat belt on when seated. Where the toilet is located and how to use it. I'm sure there are other topics others can provide.

should do this anyway. I care for the kids on my street if one is sick, and recently took the youngest to the Dr and then to the pharmacy to fill

How would you feel if someone asked you to give up the aisle seat you had paid an upcharge for to sit in a middle seat by yourself in the back of the plane? Your wife would still be sitting next to your child. Let's say this person felt they needed an aisle seat because of height or some disability, but didn't want to pay the extra $12. Would you change despite spending extra for your seat?

I had to think about this. We usually fly southwest and do not pay for early boarding, but when I fly Delta I purchase Comfort Class. My dh is 6'6" so I pay for the extra few inches of leg room. It would have to be a very good reason for us to give our seats up. It's more than $12 to begin with, and my dh has already had clots. I would place him above anyone else unless it seemed to be a true emergency. I would not move due to someone else's inability to plan.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I think that comes from the introduction of the 'premium' tiered seat costs which didn't used to be a thing. So to my mind economy should be economy, premium economy is premium economy and so forth. Extra nickel and diming for window or aisle or close to the front irritates me and is a huge part of why this issue now exists.

Yes, if nothing changes and you want guarantees, then you have to pay. For me it goes back further than that, and lies with all the changes the airlines have made which have created the situation.

I agree!

It's not really all that complicated. I'd frankly be OK if the airlines decided it wasn't worth it and price their fares accordingly without charging a premium for a window or aisle seat, like they had been doing that for over a half century.

Well - this new rule is patterned after the European Union rule from what I've read. There are some airlines in Europe that charge for seat selection but not necessarily a premium for window or aisle. And in any case an airline like British Airways sounds like they hold back quite a few seats to accommodate younger children flying with guardians.

Most US airlines don't charge per se for seat selection, except maybe ultra low cost carriers like Spirit. And in their case the model they use often allows them to hold back a lot of their seats to put families together. Part of the issue with seats not being together is when solo passengers are allowed to pick from a number of random seats.

Yeah, that does lead to more scattered open seats. I wonder if it wouldn't work out better if people could request types of seats for certain reasons (medical problems with one side or the other, that sort of thing) but the seats weren't actually assigned until the end? Then someone "backstage" would sort of play Tetris to get all the groups together (kids, no kids, whatever) and accommodate any medical issues at the same time. - There are likely problems with that as well, and I'd definitely have to give it some more thought, but the way it is now (where you choose the seats you want, even pay extra for them, think you are all set, and then they can just be randomly changed without the airline knowing your reason for booking them) seems inefficient enough to consider other options.

I am saying that no one should be paying for seats outside of class allocations.
But further more yes it is less of a choice, really just an illusion of a choice to suggest that parents shouldn't be seated next to their minor children, you are forcing "premium" seats to seat groups together.
It is no where near the same as I want to sit in 7A because 7 is my lucky number or whatever other reason.

Imagine going to the movies and every 2nd seat is premium and an extra $10, would you be happy with the choice of your group to being split to avoid the fees or paying more just so you can sit together? I mean you don't HAVE to sit next to each other, you just WANT to.

Good analogy!

 

[Gracie09]

I am not talking about molestation or kidnapping here so that is not up for debate. I am talking about things that could happen on an airplane and discussing it with your child beforehand.

Not really off topic since you brought up kids being groped i.e. Molested on planes.

 

[Gracie09]

I agree!



Yeah, that does lead to more scattered open seats. I wonder if it wouldn't work out better if people could request types of seats for certain reasons (medical problems with one side or the other, that sort of thing) but the seats weren't actually assigned until the end? Then someone "backstage" would sort of play Tetris to get all the groups together (kids, no kids, whatever) and accommodate any medical issues at the same time. - There are likely problems with that as well, and I'd definitely have to give it some more thought, but the way it is now (where you choose the seats you want, even pay extra for them, think you are all set, and then they can just be randomly changed without the airline knowing your reason for booking them) seems inefficient enough to consider other options.



Good analogy!

Not really a good analogy because on airplanes the rows in the back are often all available for selection without paying an upgrade. It is actually like if the middle section of a theater was premium and an up charge but the front and sides were a lesser charge and you choose what is more important to you- saving money or a better view.

 

[bcla]

How would you feel if someone asked you to give up the aisle seat you had paid an upcharge for to sit in a middle seat by yourself in the back of the plane? Your wife would still be sitting next to your child. Let's say this person felt they needed an aisle seat because of height or some disability, but didn't want to pay the extra $12. Would you change despite spending extra for your seat?

Like I said, if I ask and don't get it, I don't complain or act entitled. In that case I would pretty much just leave my kid there or see what happens with the flight attendants who might figure out what to do. I don't think it's that big a deal but my kid is pretty chatty. And of course I or my wife would be checking in from time to time.

I really don't worry about my kid sitting next to a stranger. There have been some notorious cases where a parent of an older girl threw a fit on a plane because of some cultural prohibition against unknown men next to girls. That I really don't get. Sure you might ask (as an example) for a kosher meal, but you're on a plane with strangers and can't expect the airline to enforce your cultural norms.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Not really a good analogy because on airplanes the rows in the back are often all available for selection without paying an upgrade. It is actually like if the middle section of a theater was premium and an up charge but the front and sides were a lesser charge and you choose what is more important to you- saving money or a better view.

She wasn't talking about whole sections being more expensive than others. (I do totally get that plays and concerts have done that for ages!) She was talking about two seats next to each other in the same section costing different amounts. I agreed with her that it's unnecessarily complicated, and I still do. - In the theater she described, you'd have a ton of people buying tickets for two cheaper seats with an empty one in the middle, hoping nobody would buy that one, and then a bunch of people later deciding not to attend the movie because the map didn't show two seats together anywhere. I really do think you'd end up with a lot of undersold showings. (And then probably all the prices would go up...)

 

[Gracie09]

She wasn't talking about whole sections being more expensive than others. (I do totally get that plays and concerts have done that for ages!) She was talking about two seats next to each other in the same section costing different amounts. I agreed with her that it's unnecessarily complicated, and I still do. - In the theater she described, you'd have a ton of people buying tickets for two cheaper seats with an empty one in the middle, hoping nobody would buy that one, and then a bunch of people later deciding not to attend the movie because the map didn't show two seats together anywhere. I really do think you'd end up with a lot of undersold showings. (And then probably all the prices would go up...)

There are sections of planes where all the seats are available for choosing without a fee- the back.

 

[bcla]

She wasn't talking about whole sections being more expensive than others. (I do totally get that plays and concerts have done that for ages!) She was talking about two seats next to each other in the same section costing different amounts. I agreed with her that it's unnecessarily complicated, and I still do. - In the theater she described, you'd have a ton of people buying tickets for two cheaper seats with an empty one in the middle, hoping nobody would buy that one, and then a bunch of people later deciding not to attend the movie because the map didn't show two seats together anywhere. I really do think you'd end up with a lot of undersold showings. (And then probably all the prices would go up...)

TicketMaster and other ticketing companies do have seat selection software that actually enforces that seats purchased together on the website must be contiguous and/or reduce single seats being left behind. I saw a perfect location for a pair together but couldn't select them because there were three together.

Part of the issue with planes is that most narrow body planes have rows of 3. It becomes a math/logic exercise to herd different sized groups with different requirements like entire groups together, adult next to child, premium seating categories, etc.

 

[maxiesmom]

TicketMaster and other ticketing companies do have seat selection software that actually enforces that seats purchased together on the website must be contiguous and/or reduce single seats being left behind. I saw a perfect location for a pair together but couldn't select them because there were three together.

Part of the issue with planes is that most narrow body planes have rows of 3. It becomes a math/logic exercise to herd different sized groups with different requirements like entire groups together, adult next to child, premium seating categories, etc.

I've never found it hard to pick seats on an aircraft that work for me. I think you are making it sound much harder than it is. I've ran into the same problem as you on Ticketmaster, but I've never had that problem on an aircraft. Being told I can't get 2 out of 3 seats next to each other.