Thoughts on Measles outbreak?

[Magical2017]

I'm not worried. If my kids got it. We homeschool, so if ANYONE in my family shows any sickness, we stay home until everyone is better. We try hard not to spread germs. I am frustrated people assume that people vaccinate due to the "fear of autism". That isn't it. I am angry that this is no longer any place to have actual discussion regarding vaccines. Vaccines are not 100% safe. Nothing in the medical field is 100% safe. I wish we could get more research into safer vaccines. This push to just vaccinate and "claim" it is all safe is frustrating. Is the the fail rate fairly small? Yes it is. But to completely ignore those who are vaccined injured is doing the science of vaccines an injustice. We need to keep pushing for safer vaccines.

Measles signs and symptoms appear around 10 to 14 days after exposure to the virus. You are correct that there is really nothing that is 100% safe. For our family, I prefer not to wait around until it is, so we vaccinate. I think there are places to have discussion regarding vaccines and totally agree that we should make them safe.

 

[Colleen27]

I truly believe it is going to take an outbreak that kills a lot of innocent people to reverse the antivaxx trend we are seeing. My generation has not had to witness people we love suffer and die from a preventable disease. History repeats itself because people forget.

Sadly, I agree. Fear is a funny thing, and time has so altered our perception of the risks of these once-common diseases that many are now more afraid of the side effects of vaccines than of the diseases they prevent. Until something happens to change that, we'll continue to see outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases.

 

[superme80]

I'm not sure if your post implies you haven't had your children vaccinated. I would certainly be willing to have a discussion with someone who didn't. Way upthread (or maybe it was another vaccine thread) I mentioned our experience.

My DS is now 22. When he was an infant the "anti-vax" (for lack of a better term) movement was just beginning. It was actually prior to the outright hysteria about autism, and the issues raised regarded the used of mercury preservatives and various unidentified adjuvants in vaccines. These concerns were unknown to our own parents and thanks to the internet, we were the first generation of parents to have to consider them. And I did consider them - at length and as thoroughly as possible, which included talking to qualified local medical professionals as well as just googling.

We took a cautious and measured approach that was approved of and supervised by our doctor, in the interest of minimizing the risk of a bad reaction as much as possible. We scheduled DS's vaccinations so that he was never given more than one at a time and he was not given compound vaccines (MMR for example). We paid OOP to purchase single-dose vials of vaccines that did not contain thimerosal. It took longer than usual for him to complete his entire course of childhood vaccines and at one point when his nursery school had a case of whooping cough brought in by a staff member, we voluntarily quarantined him and had him vaccinated immediately. (FTR - we did not agree to have DS receive Gardasil. At the time it was too new, the long-term risks unknown and the efficacy in males inconclusive. He has received it by his own consent since becoming an adult.)

During that time nobody shamed us or dismissed our concerns as ridiculous. All the medical professionals we dealt with were willing and able to provide respectful, thoughtful and compelling answers to our questions and suggest solutions. I'm not sure that would be the case today because the issue has become so polarizing. If you are willing I would still highly encourage you to try and seek out professionals you trust to have a rational discussion with.

My kids are partially vaccinate. It has happened very slowly, as in last week. It is mainly due to my desire to wait until I felt my children's immune systems were ready. I have had a couple of discussions on this board regarding vaccines. Most people have fairly respectful, I just mean in general. We are blessed to have a wonderful pediatrician who has answered all our questions, several times over. He has also understood why we waited. Single doses in America are no longer available. I really wanted to do everything one at a time, but my state does not offer that. So we have waited. Since as a nation we are going to mandatory, and I 100% do not believe in this, we have chosen to vaccinate a bit. We are not doing the entire list, but we are doing one at a time, then moving on to the next one in a few months. Most people jump on the outrage bandwagon and assume people do not vaccinate due to a fear of autism. I have many friends who selectively vax or do not vax at all. None of them made their decisions based on autism. There are many religious and political reasons why people chose not to vaccinate. I am frustrated that when you questions vaccines in the most public forums, people accuse you of being a "dreaded anti-vaxer" who uses "facebook" and "scare tactics" instead of "science". We can't discuss WHY people do or do not vaccinate. We can't discus what might be a problem with vaccines and how to fix it. We need to be able to have an open forum in society to discuss where we disagree and how to meet in the middle.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I am frustrated people assume that people vaccinate due to the "fear of autism". That isn't it.

It may not be the reason you don't. It is however a reason others don't. The anti-vaxxing movement for sure uses autism for their own information given to people to warn them away from vaccinating. There are other reasons for sure. No one (at least that I can remember, maybe I missed a comment or two) though has said it's the only reason people opt to not vaccinate.

 

[Hrhpd]

My kids are partially vaccinate. It has happened very slowly, as in last week. It is mainly due to my desire to wait until I felt my children's immune systems were ready. I have had a couple of discussions on this board regarding vaccines. Most people have fairly respectful, I just mean in general. We are blessed to have a wonderful pediatrician who has answered all our questions, several times over. He has also understood why we waited. Single doses in America are no longer available. I really wanted to do everything one at a time, but my state does not offer that. So we have waited. Since as a nation we are going to mandatory, and I 100% do not believe in this, we have chosen to vaccinate a bit. We are not doing the entire list, but we are doing one at a time, then moving on to the next one in a few months. Most people jump on the outrage bandwagon and assume people do not vaccinate due to a fear of autism. I have many friends who selectively vax or do not vax at all. None of them made their decisions based on autism. There are many religious and political reasons why people chose not to vaccinate. I am frustrated that when you questions vaccines in the most public forums, people accuse you of being a "dreaded anti-vaxer" who uses "facebook" and "scare tactics" instead of "science". We can't discuss WHY people do or do not vaccinate. We can't discus what might be a problem with vaccines and how to fix it. We need to be able to have an open forum in society to discuss where we disagree and how to meet in the middle.

While I respect your concerns about vaxxing your children, the ONLY reason to base decisions on is science, pure science. Any political arguments are bogus and tin foil hat stories, all that have been debunked by good, solid science.

Science 100% supports the efficacy and safety of vaccines and the safety of children. I read a great article the other day posted by my niece who is a new mother. It said that in our generation, we were more afraid of the diseases so there was no question to vaccinate because children were dying. Since the dangerous diseases have mostly been eradicated due to successful vaccination programs, the younger generations don't know the fear of the diseases because they haven't seen them. So, their fear is falsely transferred to the vaccines themselves.

I stand by my previous stance that people should absolutely have the choice not to vaccinate. However, choices always have consequences. Choices (not medical necessity) that harm or kill other children should face stiff legal penalties, the same as the choices to harm others in other ways carry stiff criminal liability.

Vaccines have a long history of being safe. Nothing in this world is 100% safe, just ask the families of people who died eating cantaloupe or lettuce due to listeria. The very rare chance of being vaccine injured is way, way, WAY less than the chance of dying from the disease.

 

[DisneyOma]

I had a baby 3 weeks ago and I’m frustrated that he’s at risk due to the germs his big brother and sister bring home from school. It’s one thing to put your own child at risk but now that we’re losing herd immunity I feel like it’s gone too far. I was thinking if the weather was nice I would like to take my baby and walk around my college campus outside with the stroller... turns out that my college is currently dealing with a mumps outbreak!

Those germs help him develop his immune system. Have your kids practice good hygiene at school and at home, and the baby will be fine. And if you are nursing, the baby gets a nice boost from your immune system.

Here are my thoughts. I'm very happy to have my 2 autistic teen sons alive and well. The fear about autism is SO overblown I can't even handle it. Autism is just a different way of being. Its not a tragedy, and it won't kill your child. My kids are pretty interesting people. Why anyone allows a fear of autism, of all things, to dictate how they proceed with protecting their children from very real, dangerous and often deadly illnesses, I don't know. It is stupid. Vaccines are proven science. People need to go back to trusting science and the scientific method and its outcomes and stop listening to the tin foil hat morons online.


I feel so badly for those who medically cannot get vaccinated. This must be so terrifying for them. I have NO sympathy for any parent who loses a child due to an illness contracted because of voluntary withholding of vaccines (and I count religious exemptions in that as well).

Having worked with children diagnosed with severe forms of autism, I can't agree. Children have given themselves concussions from head banging, parents have serious sleep deprivation because the children do not sleep at night and escape. We had one child in our neighborhood escape and was found on the highway. I've been punched, bitten and knocked down by children with autism. (I'm not blaming them, I'm just stating what has happened) I'm talking about completely nonverbal, violent children trapped inside of autism. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Every.last.word. Clap. Clap. Clap.

Autism isn't something you "cure" or even want to "cure." It's a different kind of brain and a different way of thinking.

And, people on the spectrum brought us computers and the space program.

I celebrate my son. Sure he has his challenges (who doesn't?). But, he's also got a brain that works in very interesting ways. And, he has a heart of gold. Just because he can't "read" your emotions, and non-verbal cues, doesn't make him something or someone you need to cure.

See above - those nonverbal, violent, suffering children locked into the worst of autism, yes I want a cure for their suffering. The ones that knock themselves out, self harm, etc. I want a cure so they are not suffering.

 

[mnrose]

My older son has been diagnosed as having high functioning autism. Even though I didn't know what the problem was, my motherly instinct knew there was something different about him when he was a baby. A lot of people dismissed it as me being overly worried because he was my first but when I saw him around other kids I knew something was different. There was no regression or change when he had his first MMR. I honestly think that with a lot of kids who have autism we will be able to diagnose them earlier once we know what to look for.

As for living before vaccines were available... When I was in third grade my sister and I came down with chicken pox. My case was very mild and lasted a few days but she was older (6th grade) and her case was much more serious and lasted much longer. She had chicken pox scars on her face for years afterward. My father had to move out of the house until we were well because he didn't know if he had ever had it. His parents had died so he couldn't ask them. I've known some elderly people who had shingles before the vaccine was developed and it was brutal. One woman I know was hospitalized because the shingles got into her blood. The after effects were so bad she had to permanently stop working. She co-owned a thriving interior decorating business and loved her career. It really harmed her financially and emotionally.

Exactly. My son has had autism his entire life. Probably including in the womb. He is a twin. I felt his sister moving all the damn time. Not him. Barely moved. Twice I went into L&D to see if he was still alive, because he never moved. Once he was born, he would turn his head to the wall and stare at it. As a tiny baby. This was his way of soothing. Stimulus of any sort made him crazy. This is an autistic trait, and it was exhibited before he'd had a single shot. The first time he was fed solid food (around 5 months old), he tried to use his bib to wipe it away....texture aversion. Before he'd had the "dreaded" MMR shot. The clues were all there. The official diagnosis only confirmed what I knew.

 

[mnrose]

Those germs help him develop his immune system. Have your kids practice good hygiene at school and at home, and the baby will be fine. And if you are nursing, the baby gets a nice boost from your immune system.



Having worked with children diagnosed with severe forms of autism, I can't agree. Children have given themselves concussions from head banging, parents have serious sleep deprivation because the children do not sleep at night and escape. We had one child in our neighborhood escape and was found on the highway. I've been punched, bitten and knocked down by children with autism. (I'm not blaming them, I'm just stating what has happened) I'm talking about completely nonverbal, violent children trapped inside of autism. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.



See above - those nonverbal, violent, suffering children locked into the worst of autism, yes I want a cure for their suffering. The ones that knock themselves out, self harm, etc. I want a cure so they are not suffering.

You can't "cure" autism without also "curing" my son. Do that and the world is going to miss out on amazing things. Do that and the world would NEVER have known computers. Or NASA. Or space travel. Neuro-diversity is IMPORTANT for the human species. You can't pick and choose which neuro-diverse people you want to have.

I don't want to "cure" my son. He's not SICK. He's different. It's flat out dangerous to start to mess with this stuff. We need to get past seeing "autism" as a bad thing. I sure as hell don't.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Vaccines are not 100% safe. Nothing in the medical field is 100% safe.

Still, vaccines are much safer than the diseases.

 

[tcufrog]

You can't "cure" autism without also "curing" my son. Do that and the world is going to miss out on amazing things. Do that and the world would NEVER have known computers. Or NASA. Or space travel. Neuro-diversity is IMPORTANT for the human species. You can't pick and choose which neuro-diverse people you want to have.

I don't want to "cure" my son. He's not SICK. He's different. It's flat out dangerous to start to mess with this stuff. We need to get past seeing "autism" as a bad thing. I sure as hell don't.

I am fortunate enough that my son's autism is mild. He was actually diagnosed as high functioning Aspergers when he was 4, however, the DSM changed the official diagnosis to autism. The thing a lot of people who aren't in the trenches don't realize is how broad the spectrum is. My son, who has a genius level IQ, is a lot more like Sheldon on Big Bang Theory than he is like those who are at the other end of the spectrum. I am fortunate enough not to know what it's like to have a child with severe autism who will never be potty trained, is uncontrollably violent and will never speak. I would never presume to judge a parent dealing with that who wishes his child could be cured of his autism.

 

[bushdianee]

I'm another one who had measles mumps, chicken pox and rubella it was not a fun experience. In fact I had rubella every year for about 4 years. My body had a hard time building up immunity to it. As an adult I was tested when I went to work in a hospital and finally showed immunity. I had everything except mumps between kindergarten and first grade. Mumps I had at about age 3. I also had shingles in my 40's. I brought everything home from school and passed it on to my younger brother and sister. In fact we all had chicken pox when my mother had twins. One of them started the 2nd round of chicken pox when he was 6 then the other 4 younger siblings got them too. The youngest 2 were only 1 1/2 and about 4 months so they were in diapers and miserable. the youngest ended up getting them again when she was about 11 or 12 because she was so young the first time her body didn't build up enough immunity.
I also babysat as a teenager for a boy who was born deaf as a result of his mother being exposed to measles or rubella when she was pregnant.

 

[LSUmiss]

I'm not worried. If my kids got it. We homeschool, so if ANYONE in my family shows any sickness, we stay home until everyone is better. We try hard not to spread germs. I am frustrated people assume that people vaccinate due to the "fear of autism". That isn't it. I am angry that this is no longer any place to have actual discussion regarding vaccines. Vaccines are not 100% safe. Nothing in the medical field is 100% safe. I wish we could get more research into safer vaccines. This push to just vaccinate and "claim" it is all safe is frustrating. Is the the fail rate fairly small? Yes it is. But to completely ignore those who are vaccined injured is doing the science of vaccines an injustice. We need to keep pushing for safer vaccines.

Ok, but with the current state of things, not vaccinating is much more dangerous than vaccinating even if it’s not 100% safe. Most things carry some sort of risk. You have to look if benefits outweigh the risks.

 

[LSUmiss]

I am fortunate enough that my son's autism is mild. He was actually diagnosed as high functioning Aspergers when he was 4, however, the DSM changed the official diagnosis to autism. The thing a lot of people who aren't in the trenches don't realize is how broad the spectrum is. My son, who has a genius level IQ, is a lot more like Sheldon on Big Bang Theory than he is like those who are at the other end of the spectrum. I am fortunate enough not to know what it's like to have a child with severe autism who will never be potty trained, is uncontrollably violent and will never speak. I would never presume to judge a parent dealing with that who wishes his child could be cured of his autism.

This is true. I work in special education. I see a lot of kids who aren’t just different but not able to function at all. They will need supervision & care their entire life.

 

[ronandannette]

You can't "cure" autism without also "curing" my son. Do that and the world is going to miss out on amazing things. Do that and the world would NEVER have known computers. Or NASA. Or space travel. Neuro-diversity is IMPORTANT for the human species. You can't pick and choose which neuro-diverse people you want to have.

I don't want to "cure" my son. He's not SICK. He's different. It's flat out dangerous to start to mess with this stuff. We need to get past seeing "autism" as a bad thing. I sure as hell don't.

Did you not actually read @DisneyOma ’s post?

 

[North of Mouse]

I'm not worried. If my kids got it. We homeschool, so if ANYONE in my family shows any sickness, we stay home until everyone is better. We try hard not to spread germs.

It doesn't concern you if your children get these horrible diseases? I watched my children suffer (and yes, it was bad), I also suffered. Vaccines were not available to us. We would have gladly not gone through that.

Also, unless you live in an entire bubble, if your children contacted measles, they will spread it to others BEFORE they have symptoms for you to recognize and keep them home. There is no way they won't spread the disease, so saying you will keep them home doesn't mean anything.

 

[Katie Dawn]

Those germs help him develop his immune system. Have your kids practice good hygiene at school and at home, and the baby will be fine. And if you are nursing, the baby gets a nice boost from your immune system.

There's a lot going on in this post, but I wanted to address one item: if she's nursing the baby GOT a nice boost from Mom's immune system. The antibodies are in colustrum, not in the breast milk that is produced after that. So baby got a boost right at birth, but isn't actively getting antibodies from the diseases siblings are bringing home.

Most people would prefer their babies not have to work so hard to fight off diseases in their first few days of life.

 

[RamblingMad]

Check this out.

 

[DisneyOma]

You can't "cure" autism without also "curing" my son. Do that and the world is going to miss out on amazing things. Do that and the world would NEVER have known computers. Or NASA. Or space travel. Neuro-diversity is IMPORTANT for the human species. You can't pick and choose which neuro-diverse people you want to have.

I don't want to "cure" my son. He's not SICK. He's different. It's flat out dangerous to start to mess with this stuff. We need to get past seeing "autism" as a bad thing. I sure as hell don't.

So, you're not really saying that you'd rather have computers and NASA and space travel and let some children suffer so much, are you?

I would gladly do without computers, space travel and cows having a happy time headed to the slaughter house (Temple Grandin's invention) if it meant that the other end of the spectrum wasn't locked away in one form or another - physically or mentally. If your child had a more severe form of autism, where he struck out at one and all, self harmed, and your other children were not safe at home from him, even as they slept in their beds, how would you feel?

Have you thought about how a cure could work? Gene therapy after birth would allow an option to be treated for it or not, and who is to say any part of a treatment would affect intellect? What if a treatment only affected speech, or social skills, etc? Who is to say that intellect is completely dependent on the rest? I've worked with this population for over 17 years. I've seen students with autism have high and low intellect. Neuro-diversity is not only autism/nonautism, by the way. (And NASA, space travel and computers were not solely invented and developed by people with autism)

 

[mumto3girls]

Double check your immunity. I had mine checked during my last physical. Turns out that I am no longer good for mumps, so I'm redoing my MMRs.

I second this. Oldest DD (now 18) decided to take a course to get certified as an EMT. She had to have a physical and they checked her immunity on all of the things we are typically vaccinated for as children. My kids are all fully vaccinated and have had all of the recommended boosters. She did not have immunity to chicken pox and one of the MMR diseases and had to be re-vaccinated. I am going to have my younger kids checked. I had no idea this was possible especially at her young age.

 

[pixiedustedme]

The fear about autism is SO overblown I can't even handle it. Autism is just a different way of being. Its not a tragedy, and it won't kill your child. My kids are pretty interesting people. Why anyone allows a fear of autism, of all things, to dictate how they proceed with protecting their children from very real, dangerous and often deadly illnesses, I don't know.

Autism is a disorder that can destroy lives. It's not a huge problem when it's very mild (such as Aspergers) or after a fortunate autistic person has become high-functioning, but severe autism that leaves children nonverbal and/or out of control of their behavior prevents them from living a full life, and often leads to institutionalization after the parents pass on. It is an extremely serious problem. And the treatments for autism are often very expensive- they can take a major toll on parents' finances.

I speak as a mother of an autistic child and a teacher who has worked with many autistic children, by the way. Everything I say, I've seen or experienced firsthand.

Autism is nothing to minimize. It can be absolutely devastating to people's lives.