OK, I'll say it... we are too sensitive

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

You do? So what do they mean?

Let me tell you what the people I have actually asked said it means. It’s not slavery. It’s not about that part of the history. It’s about the southern people who after the civil war had everything stripped from them. There homes and cities were burned and many had nothing left. They built it back by the sweat of their brow. They pulled up their boot straps and came back from those ashes. And that is what they are proud of. They are not proud of the fact that so many’s fortunes before the war were built in the backs of the slaves. But you have to remember that even those who never owned a slave or fought in the war lost. every thing they had too. And those building back their farms and homes and lives is what southern heritage is.

And the southern states have done it again and again. After Camille and after Katrina in this state.

Is that what anyone meant through the civil rights movement? I don’t have a clue. I wasn’t around then. But this is from people now. And honestly most, at least here, don’t care one way the other about Robert E Lee or his statue. They want to be able to rmemorialize their ancestors without being called racist for doing so.

I've already told you what it means. For someone complaining that the other side doesn't listen, you sure aren't listening. And do you really expect me to believe all those displaying swastikas and the like do so to commemorate great grandaddy's house getting burned and statues of Nathan Bedford Forrest commemorate Katrina rebuilding?

 

[kaytieeldr]

It’s about the southern people who after the civil war had everything stripped from them. There homes and cities were burned and many had nothing left.

Where after the Civil War? Which cities were burned? Homes where?

 

[disneyjunkie]

You do? So what do they mean?

Let me tell you what the people I have actually asked said it means. It’s not slavery. It’s not about that part of the history. It’s about the southern people who after the civil war had everything stripped from them. There homes and cities were burned and many had nothing left. They built it back by the sweat of their brow. They pulled up their boot straps and came back from those ashes. And that is what they are proud of. They are not proud of the fact that so many’s fortunes before the war were built in the backs of the slaves. But you have to remember that even those who never owned a slave or fought in the war lost. every thing they had too. And those building back their farms and homes and lives is what southern heritage is.

And the southern states have done it again and again. After Camille and after Katrina in this state.

Is that what anyone meant through the civil rights movement? I don’t have a clue. I wasn’t around then. But this is from people now. And honestly most, at least here, don’t care one way the other about Robert E Lee or his statue. They want to be able to rmemorialize their ancestors without being called racist for doing so.

That really is a nice story. It isn't completely factual, but it is nice.

Your definition of southern heritage omits share cropping, ( how would the south have been rebuilt without the cheap labor of former slaves) the formation of the KKK, the beginning of the racist trope about blacks and watermelons....

In my opinion the best thing that came out of the time period you want to celebrate are HBCUs ~Historically Black Colleges and Universities.

 

[CarolAnn856]

The twisting and turning of some people on this thread to justify racism, past and present, is horrifying.

 

[DeniseJH]

The twisting and turning of some people on this thread to justify racism, past and present, is horrifying.

Truth.

 

[Scifidiner]

That really is a nice story. It isn't completely factual, but it is nice.

Your definition of southern heritage omits share cropping, ( how would the south have been rebuilt without the cheap labor of former slaves) the formation of the KKK, the beginning of the racist trope about blacks and watermelons....

In my opinion the best thing that came out of the time period you want to celebrate are HBCUs ~Historically Black Colleges and Universities.

Clearly you've never visited JSU.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Clearly you've never visited JSU.

Care to explain your comment?

 

[Scifidiner]

Care to explain your comment?

Simple. Before you insult an entire region of the country, educate yourself. I urge you to go visit the campus of JSU, spend some time there. Then decide if this is the best that all of the south has to offer.

 

[LSUmiss]

Simple. Before you insult an entire region of the country, educate yourself. I urge you to go visit the campus of JSU, spend some time there. Then decide if this is the best that all of the south has to offer.

Pp said best thing to come out of that time period not the best thing about the south.

 

[Scifidiner]

Pp said best thing to come out of that time period not the best thing about the south.

And? Visit the campus, then decide if it's "the best thing to come out of this time period".

 

[disneyjunkie]

Simple. Before you insult an entire region of the country, educate yourself. I urge you to go visit the campus of JSU, spend some time there. Then decide if this is the best that all of the south has to offer.

I never once said that HBCUs were the best that all the south has to offer. I grew up and still live in NYC. However, my family is from SC and I attended a HBCU in NC. My son attended a HBCU in VA. I love visiting family and friends in the south.

My comment was directed at the white washing of Reconstruction.

 

[Skywalker]

Again it's an example. It's the point that not everyone at that time became a racist.

Actually, more like a metaphor.

Right not everyone at that time was a racist. But to our ears, they may have certainly sounded like it. Even people that weren't racist, would probably seem like it to you because NO ONE was "woke" by 2019 standards. People didn't get sensitivity training or obsess about taking offence or "microaggressions", they just lived their lives. Got up, went to work and raised families. Fought in World War 1 and World War 2. Should we stop honouring our veterans because by today's standard they would all probably sound racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.? Even if they didn't have a mean bone in their body they would never measure up to those people today who would have the ammunition to retroactively proclaim them racist. Deeds were important, actions, how you lived your life. Not words and terms that fall in and out of favour. Words are air. Songs were entertainment. It was how they lived that was important, and you would never, ever be able to know that about each individual.

But this type of labeling, of "othering", this smug feeling of obviously being "superior to" rather than of trying to understand, is exactly the type of mindset that breeds and sustains racism.

(Also, slavery, didn't begin and end in the U.S. 200 years ago and is not just about racism. It has existed for thousands of years, white on white, black on black, chinese on chinese, etc etc. It's about economics and power. And still goes on to this day, in fact I've been out of school for a while but I think the biggest problem with modern day slavery is in Africa. Maybe try and help actual victims in the world today, rather than taking down statues and arguing over terminology people used like 90 years ago.)

 

[Scifidiner]

My great grandfather was a sharecropper in Mississippi in the early 20th century. I didn't know this until my dad told me a few months ago.

 

[disneyjunkie]

And? Visit the campus, then decide if it's "the best thing to come out of this time period".

I stand by my statement. HBCUs were opened to educate former slaves. Former slaves that were not allowed to attend the established schools due to RACISM.

 

[L&Lfan]

Top 5 2019 countries with slavery:
1. India
2. China
3. Pakistan
4. Bangladesh
5. Uzbekistan

 

[Scifidiner]

I stand by my statement. HBCUs were opened to educate former slaves. Former slaves that were not allowed to attend the established schools due to RACISM.

I appreciate your opinion. Again, I urge you to visit that campus in person. I'm not saying it's good or bad. I understand the sentiment of HBCU's. But the idea of some thing and the current day reality is often quite different. I was a guest speaker at JSU a couple of years ago, that was an education in and of itself.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Top 5 2019 countries with slavery:
1. India
2. China
3. Pakistan
4. Bangladesh
5. Uzbekistan

That list doesn't change or excuse our history.

 

[DeniseJH]

Right not everyone at that time was a racist. But to our ears, they may have certainly sounded like it. Even people that weren't racist, would probably seem like it to you because NO ONE was "woke" by 2019 standards. People didn't get sensitivity training or obsess about taking offence or "microaggressions", they just lived their lives. Got up, went to work and raised families. Fought in World War 1 and World War 2. Should we stop honouring our veterans because by today's standard they would all probably sound racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.? Even if they didn't have a mean bone in their body they would never measure up to those people today who would have the ammunition to retroactively proclaim them racist. Deeds were important, actions, how you lived your life. Not words and terms that fall in and out of favour. Words are air. Songs were entertainment. It was how they lived that was important, and you would never, ever be able to know that about each individual.

But this type of labeling, of "othering", this smug feeling of obviously being "superior to" rather than of trying to understand, is exactly the type of mindset that breeds and sustains racism.

(Also, slavery, didn't begin and end in the U.S. 200 years ago and is not just about racism. It has existed for thousands of years, white on white, black on black, chinese on chinese, etc etc. It's about economics and power. And still goes on to this day, in fact I've been out of school for a while but I think the biggest problem with modern day slavery is in Africa. Maybe try and help actual victims in the world today, rather than taking down statues and arguing over terminology people used like 90 years ago.)

"Right not everyone at that time was a racist." Thank you. That has been my point all along. Many people knew, and did better.


And you can't suppose to know how people lived back then. You have no idea how they felt, how they cared for each other, how they loved their neighbors. Songs may be entertainment, but racist songs are only entertaining to racists.


The rest of your post? I don't need your morality lessons. I'm quite comfortable with where I stand.

 

[DeniseJH]

That list doesn't change or excuse our history.

Exactly - that had absolutely nothing to do with this conversation.

 

[LSUmiss]

Right not everyone at that time was a racist. But to our ears, they may have certainly sounded like it. Even people that weren't racist, would probably seem like it to you because NO ONE was "woke" by 2019 standards. People didn't get sensitivity training or obsess about taking offence or "microaggressions", they just lived their lives. Got up, went to work and raised families. Fought in World War 1 and World War 2. Should we stop honouring our veterans because by today's standard they would all probably sound racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.? Even if they didn't have a mean bone in their body they would never measure up to those people today who would have the ammunition to retroactively proclaim them racist. Deeds were important, actions, how you lived your life. Not words and terms that fall in and out of favour. Words are air. Songs were entertainment. It was how they lived that was important, and you would never, ever be able to know that about each individual.

But this type of labeling, of "othering", this smug feeling of obviously being "superior to" rather than of trying to understand, is exactly the type of mindset that breeds and sustains racism.

(Also, slavery, didn't begin and end in the U.S. 200 years ago and is not just about racism. It has existed for thousands of years, white on white, black on black, chinese on chinese, etc etc. It's about economics and power. And still goes on to this day, in fact I've been out of school for a while but I think the biggest problem with modern day slavery is in Africa. Maybe try and help actual victims in the world today, rather than taking down statues and arguing over terminology people used like 90 years ago.)

Can’t you do both? What’s the argument for leaving up statues that honor ppl who did atrocious things? What’s the harm in taking them down if they no longer represent who the ppl of that area want to honor?