Do You Consider Yourself a Feminist?

[Nancyg56]

Dh would never tell me what I can and can’t do about anything. I won’t speak for the pp but for me, it’s not about permission. It’s that it’s something that changes his life too.

There is a world of difference between informing your life partner about something that effects them as well as you and asking for their permission.

Yes there is, and in a good marraige this is the conversation that woudl take place. Mutual decisionmaking about the direction the family is taking, and how to get there together. This couple does nto need laws that provide protection for a woman.

Unfortunatly, there are many women who are not in relationships that allow for this kind of decisionmaking, and if you do not know a woman in that situation, you may not be looking closely enough. I work with "that" woman. She has no voice in her home. Not even a little one. Her husband dictates what food is bought, what the family eats, if they can have a drink with dinner. I am talking water. He decides. He chooses how the money is spent, if there is any for clothing for the kids, or her. He get his dunkin money, scratch money, cigarette money, beer money all before the kids get anything. Her clothes are old, her glasses old. Last week he made her cancel her hair appointment.

But her car is a big *** old Denali duelie, diesel crew cab. She gets to haul three kids in that thing, grocery shop, and get back and forth to work. She is all of 5 feet tall, so gettin gin and out is a heck of a treat for her.

She needs to leave work early if the boys have anything to do becuase he will not drive with a car seat in his car. Sh ealso has to work from home if any of the boys are sick. HE is not their "babysitter." She needs to go directly home with the only stop at the package store or minimart for his cigarettes or beer. She is terrified of him.

You really think a man who controls every movement his wife makes should have a say what happens in her body when he has used preganancy as a means of control? She is never going to be able to get away from him.

So no man should get a voice in any of it because of a few bad apples? That doesn’t sound like equality. There are men that are married to women like you describe. What about him?

And sadly that is the way most argue these laws and policies. The father or husband gets no voice.

Look. I understand that these decisions should be mutual, but I will never agree that anyoen should have a say over another persons body. If the marraige is such that this discussion cannot take place, there is more to consider than DH feelings.When I was employed at a previous job my company tried to be a good neighbor in the community. I was part of the team that raised money for organizations in town, and mine was the center for domestic abuse. The volunteers there used the money I raised to visit local businesses and schools. You would cry if you knew the women whose situations were not good and that many times those women sat next to you every day. You see, women in bad situations do not tell those women who they feel live in Utopia how they live daily. They do not share the fear, the rapes, the intimidation. The volunteer told me that after every visit at least one woman approaches them for help. That includes their high school visits.

I know what is happening to muy coworker becasue I have been watching for 4 years, and have tried to help, however I have another who has missed every signal. I had to tell her to back off the hair cut thing, color would be awesome thing, because my coworker is going to have to sneak the money to be able to afford cost cutters, never mind foils for highlights etc.

Please try to step out of your own situation to recognize that not every woman is in your shoes and those are the women who these laws are going to hurt the most, and they can afford it the least.

 

[Nancyg56]

But when the woman had no choice about becoming pregnant? Should every female who has her period be on birth control in case she gets raped?



You watch some very whacked TV. Maybe step back from the faux-reality stuff? Head down to some women's shelters, free health clinics and see what it's really like? I've seen some horrid situations at our local women's/family shelter, and the nurse at our school is very busy with teen health/sex issues.

I know. It is so sad.

 

[shelemm]

Kind of short on details here and doesn’t quite sound right but if a women made any fundamental breakthrough in any science I assure you she would receive full credit for the discovery. The last Fields Medal (kind of a Nobel Prize for Mathematics) was awarded to a women. Ii

Well, it's so nice ot be assured. Thank goodness we cleared that up. But i have the sneaking suspicion that this is an argumant more than it is a fact. It's not all about great discoveries or being awarded a major prize. it's also about the many out there who receive less pay and fewer leadership opportunuties. Yes, more and more women are getting the degree but the attitudes are still a huge barrier.

 

[cinnaminny]

So scary. I’m glad you’re okay.

I had a D&C two weeks ago to remove the embryo that had died six weeks prior. That’s how long it took before I could get appropriate care, even though I had been seeking it the whole time.

Wow, I am so sorry! Are you okay?

 

[cinnaminny]

Because it's not about decreasing the total number of abortions. It's about controlling women and punishing them and making them "take responsibility" for their actions.

No woman wants to believe they could ever have an unwanted pregancy, so women in that situation must have done something "wrong", otherwise it could happen to anyone, including themselves.

Exactly. What was that term that guy used yesterday on the floor? Consensual rape? He did not "misspeak" that language was used purposefully, to add to the idea that this was more about her than him.

I also think this is about taking away some women's right to vote.

 

[pahoben]

Well, it's so nice ot be assured. Thank goodness we cleared that up. But i have the sneaking suspicion that this is an argumant more than it is a fact. It's not all about great discoveries or being awarded a major prize. it's also about the many out there who receive less pay and fewer leadership opportunuties. Yes, more and more women are getting the degree but the attitudes are still a huge barrier.

This is where you start losing me by explaining everything you don’t like by male plots. If you want to look at groups that have done well even though the attitudes of many were against them look at some of the Asian immigrant groups to the US or Pakistani immigrants to the UK. These groups have done well in spite of others attitudes. This for me is where it becomes victimhood. For me each individual is rightfully guaranteed equality under the law and the rest is left to the individual to achieve their goals. For goodness sake you are more than 50% of the US population and you are still the victims.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Wow, I am so sorry! Are you okay?

Yes, thanks for asking.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

Really? And you would be wrong. I got pregnant at 17. Unplanned, unwanted. Very much a blessing, who is now my 37 year old son who I love more than life itself. But you have alllllll the answers right? At just over 18 I sat in my hospital bed with a tiny baby that I didn’t have a clue how to take care of and cried. But you know what? I learned and we grew together and I wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world.

It’s not about controlling women. Or punishing anyone. That is that self absorbed opinion of the pro choice. It’s not about the woman at all. It’s about a life. A tiny baby that has no voice, no choice. That didn’t ask to be conceived.

It is absolutely about control. It is about you forcing your vision of morality on me. I am thrilled you had the choice to have that child and raise it.

FTR: I became a mother my senior year of high school. This tiny baby (who was 8 weeks premature) tied me to a man who abused me. You want details, I will share, because I believe that if my story can even help just one person, then it's on me to share it. He threw things at me, he beat me. He brought his girlfriends to our home, and expected me to welcome them with open arms. He was a prisoner in teh marraige and parenthood as I was. He beat me damn near senseless the day he told me his gf was pregnant and was moving in with us, and I protested. I found a way to get safe, for both my daughter and myself; I gave up custody to his parents. The day they had legal custody of my daughter, I filed for divorce and kicked him out. When I finally thought I was safe (two months after I filed for divorce), he came to my home one night and raped me. I ended up pregnant, and I chose to end that pregnancy. I was not going to give him another reason to be tied to me forever.

If I lived in Alabama today, I would be forced to carry that child.

Even worse than my story, there is an 11 year old...let that sink in for a minute...an 11 year old in Ohio and may be forced to carry her rapist's child, because of that damn heartbeat law. Eleven years old. Think back to what you were doing at 11. I was still playing with Barbies, and painting my nails; learning to put on make up and dreaming of a wedding to a handsome prince. This child is bearing a child. This should horrify you. How is an 11 year old mentally capable of doing something that I could not, at the age of 21?

https://meaww.com/11-year-old-ohio-...ced-to-bear-child-because-fetal-heartbeat-law

I believe you, like I am, are in a good marriage w/ mutual trust & respect & love from both partners.

But what about the woman who finds herself in a not-so-good marriage w/ an abusive husband or a controlling husband or a narcissistic husband or a husband that does NOT have his wife's best interests in mind - the kind of marriage that does a woman more harm (emotional, physical, etc.) than good?

What about that woman?

You can't assume everyone is in a good marriage; you can't assume that every woman is partnered w/ a decent partner.

So you have to have write the laws in ways that protect all the women.

Amen

I have never spoken to anyone that is pro life that felt that way about sex Ed or birth control. Or that don’t care about children and families. Ever.

I googled and found that you are actually wrong. Most pro life people do think birth control should be easy to get. I am sure that’s not what certain organizations will tell you. And politicians aside, as they rarely get anything right anyway; every day normal people that believe abortion is wrong, do know that there has to be something to counteract it and birth control is that.

Most people (again NOT politicians) realize that government assistance is necessary. And the number one place it’s necessary is for women and children.

Do people resent what they perceive to be people taking advantage of the system? Yes. But that doesn’t mean they think the system shouldn’t be there. That doesn’t mean they think that children should go without.

Tell that to the women in Ohio.
http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/gop-push-ban-abortion-coverage-ohio

Tell that to the children in Alabama
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/alabama
#46 in Health Care
#50 in Eductation
#45 in Opportunity
#45 in Economy
#37 in Health Care Access
#39 in Health Care Quality
#47 in Public Health
#47 in Mental Health
#50 in Low Infant Mortality
#47 in Low Mortality
#46 in Low Obesity
#41 in Low Smoking

 

[quandrea]

I’m so surprised that there are not more women who identify as feminists. I’m a SAHM—have been for fifteen years—so very traditional roles in my house. But I am absolutely of my own mind and firmly believe in a woman’s right to choose in every aspect of her life.

I consider myself pro-life as well. I would never have an abortion; however, I firmly believe in the importance of free access to safe abortions for any woman who needs or wants one. My opinion or the state’s opinion on her choice is irrelevant. It’s a public health issue. I also think access to birth control and sex education is paramount.

I’m glad I live in a country where we’ve been assured the abortion debate will not be reopened. I hope that holds.

 

[Searc]

Because it's not about decreasing the total number of abortions. It's about controlling women and punishing them and making them "take responsibility" for their actions.

No woman wants to believe they could ever have an unwanted pregancy, so women in that situation must have done something "wrong", otherwise it could happen to anyone, including themselves.

Yep.

 

[Searc]

It is absolutely about control. It is about you forcing your vision of morality on me. I am thrilled you had the choice to have that child and raise it.

FTR: I became a mother my senior year of high school. This tiny baby (who was 8 weeks premature) tied me to a man who abused me. You want details, I will share, because I believe that if my story can even help just one person, then it's on me to share it. He threw things at me, he beat me. He brought his girlfriends to our home, and expected me to welcome them with open arms. He was a prisoner in teh marraige and parenthood as I was. He beat me damn near senseless the day he told me his gf was pregnant and was moving in with us, and I protested. I found a way to get safe, for both my daughter and myself; I gave up custody to his parents. The day they had legal custody of my daughter, I filed for divorce and kicked him out. When I finally thought I was safe (two months after I filed for divorce), he came to my home one night and raped me. I ended up pregnant, and I chose to end that pregnancy. I was not going to give him another reason to be tied to me forever.

If I lived in Alabama today, I would be forced to carry that child.

Even worse than my story, there is an 11 year old...let that sink in for a minute...an 11 year old in Ohio and may be forced to carry her rapist's child, because of that damn heartbeat law. Eleven years old. Think back to what you were doing at 11. I was still playing with Barbies, and painting my nails; learning to put on make up and dreaming of a wedding to a handsome prince. This child is bearing a child. This should horrify you. How is an 11 year old mentally capable of doing something that I could not, at the age of 21?

https://meaww.com/11-year-old-ohio-...ced-to-bear-child-because-fetal-heartbeat-law





Amen



Tell that to the women in Ohio.
http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/gop-push-ban-abortion-coverage-ohio

Tell that to the children in Alabama
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/alabama
#46 in Health Care
#50 in Eductation
#45 in Opportunity
#45 in Economy
#37 in Health Care Access
#39 in Health Care Quality
#47 in Public Health
#47 in Mental Health
#50 in Low Infant Mortality
#47 in Low Mortality
#46 in Low Obesity
#41 in Low Smoking

 

[luvsJack]

No, the gag rule is alive and well, not blocked by a federal judge, reinstated on January 23, 2017 and has stood since then. I think you are thinking of the attempted "domestic gag rule" and I am referring to the one that's been around much longer - the "global gag rule" aka the "Mexico City Policy." Studies show this policy actually increases abortions.

My point is I want to understand why people who insist they're "pro-life" support things like this that actually have the opposite effect of what they claim to want.

Well one I haven’t said I support it. And two it’s not new. More restrictive but not new. And three I am not finding these studies—no links from Planned Parenthood please, I don’t read those.

 

[Searc]

If you don't have a uterus, you don't get to make decisions affecting mine.

 

[Nancyg56]

It is absolutely about control. It is about you forcing your vision of morality on me. I am thrilled you had the choice to have that child and raise it.

FTR: I became a mother my senior year of high school. This tiny baby (who was 8 weeks premature) tied me to a man who abused me. You want details, I will share, because I believe that if my story can even help just one person, then it's on me to share it. He threw things at me, he beat me. He brought his girlfriends to our home, and expected me to welcome them with open arms. He was a prisoner in teh marraige and parenthood as I was. He beat me damn near senseless the day he told me his gf was pregnant and was moving in with us, and I protested. I found a way to get safe, for both my daughter and myself; I gave up custody to his parents. The day they had legal custody of my daughter, I filed for divorce and kicked him out. When I finally thought I was safe (two months after I filed for divorce), he came to my home one night and raped me. I ended up pregnant, and I chose to end that pregnancy. I was not going to give him another reason to be tied to me forever.

If I lived in Alabama today, I would be forced to carry that child.

Even worse than my story, there is an 11 year old...let that sink in for a minute...an 11 year old in Ohio and may be forced to carry her rapist's child, because of that damn heartbeat law. Eleven years old. Think back to what you were doing at 11. I was still playing with Barbies, and painting my nails; learning to put on make up and dreaming of a wedding to a handsome prince. This child is bearing a child. This should horrify you. How is an 11 year old mentally capable of doing something that I could not, at the age of 21?

https://meaww.com/11-year-old-ohio-...ced-to-bear-child-because-fetal-heartbeat-law





Amen



Tell that to the women in Ohio.
http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/gop-push-ban-abortion-coverage-ohio

Tell that to the children in Alabama
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/alabama
#46 in Health Care
#50 in Eductation
#45 in Opportunity
#45 in Economy
#37 in Health Care Access
#39 in Health Care Quality
#47 in Public Health
#47 in Mental Health
#50 in Low Infant Mortality
#47 in Low Mortality
#46 in Low Obesity
#41 in Low Smoking

I have no words other than I was there too. Different circumstances, same man. His parents thought I was the issue and refused to judge him, and helped him convince me that they would take my child. The police told me "behave yourself little lady" and he had me arrested when I fought back. This was just before teh woman in Torrington was murdered by her husband after the police refused to take him away. The nicest thing that man did for me was die.

This is why I try to be active on assisting women who need help. My coworker was almost out after my DD, my employer and I intervened. Almost. But then she was back "in love" just long enough to tie her to another loan, and then he beat her, slammed her face into something. She told us her friend's wife did it, and gave a cockamamie story about how the police said they could not arrest that woman. Sh ewoudl not go to the Dr for a broken hand until all her facial bruises were gone.

My friend is a cop and told me that was nuts. Officers would investigate, and none of her story to us made sense. This is why I have asked my very sheltered coworker to just stop suggesting cool things to do with her hair, etc. ALl it does is make her situation more isolated. I know this because I was that woman at one time. I will never ever dictate choices other women need to make becuase no matter how much I think I know, the truth is I know nothing that any other woman does not want me to know.

 

[pahoben]

If you don't have a uterus, you don't get to make decisions affecting mine.

There are many posters above that have a uterus and really want to tell you what to do with yours. I guess that is okay with you? It’s just men that can’t tell you?

 

[kimblebee]

If you don't have a uterus, you don't get to make decisions affecting mine.

That’s good in principle, but, I don’t have one any more (due to cancer) and the governor (or whatever her title is) of Alabama is female and she’s the one who signed it into law.

 

[luvsJack]

Yes there is, and in a good marraige this is the conversation that woudl take place. Mutual decisionmaking about the direction the family is taking, and how to get there together. This couple does nto need laws that provide protection for a woman.

Unfortunatly, there are many women who are not in relationships that allow for this kind of decisionmaking, and if you do not know a woman in that situation, you may not be looking closely enough. I work with "that" woman. She has no voice in her home. Not even a little one. Her husband dictates what food is bought, what the family eats, if they can have a drink with dinner. I am talking water. He decides. He chooses how the money is spent, if there is any for clothing for the kids, or her. He get his dunkin money, scratch money, cigarette money, beer money all before the kids get anything. Her clothes are old, her glasses old. Last week he made her cancel her hair appointment.

But her car is a big a$$*a$$*a$$* old Denali duelie, diesel crew cab. She gets to haul three kids in that thing, grocery shop, and get back and forth to work. She is all of 5 feet tall, so gettin gin and out is a heck of a treat for her.

She needs to leave work early if the boys have anything to do becuase he will not drive with a car seat in his car. Sh ealso has to work from home if any of the boys are sick. HE is not their "babysitter." She needs to go directly home with the only stop at the package store or minimart for his cigarettes or beer. She is terrified of him.

You really think a man who controls every movement his wife makes should have a say what happens in her body when he has used preganancy as a means of control? She is never going to be able to get away from him.



Look. I understand that these decisions should be mutual, but I will never agree that anyoen should have a say over another persons body. If the marraige is such that this discussion cannot take place, there is more to consider than DH feelings.When I was employed at a previous job my company tried to be a good neighbor in the community. I was part of the team that raised money for organizations in town, and mine was the center for domestic abuse. The volunteers there used the money I raised to visit local businesses and schools. You would cry if you knew the women whose situations were not good and that many times those women sat next to you every day. You see, women in bad situations do not tell those women who they feel live in Utopia how they live daily. They do not share the fear, the rapes, the intimidation. The volunteer told me that after every visit at least one woman approaches them for help. That includes their high school visits.

I know what is happening to muy coworker becasue I have been watching for 4 years, and have tried to help, however I have another who has missed every signal. I had to tell her to back off the hair cut thing, color would be awesome thing, because my coworker is going to have to sneak the money to be able to afford cost cutters, never mind foils for highlights etc.

Please try to step out of your own situation to recognize that not every woman is in your shoes and those are the women who these laws are going to hurt the most, and they can afford it the least.

I know women in marriages like you describe well. I live in a world where the ultimate “redneck” is king. And while I wouldn’t live with someone like that for 10 seconds, I know women who do.

But be realistic. How on earth would a woman in that situation have the surgery anyway? She can’t hide it. She can’t just go to the dr one day and be home that afternoon and have this done.

Again we are talking about extremes. Yes they exist. But for a woman in that situation, having a surgery he doesn’t want her to have is going to take a lot more than his signature.

And for every story of women like that, there are men who have no voice for their own child. She wants an abortion, he gets no voice. She wants to keep the baby, again no voice. Oh but now pay up and step up because you helped make it. He marries a manipulative narcissist and he gets controlled by the children that he had no voice in making or he gets no voice in whether they have children. That’s not equality either.

 

[Searc]

There are many posters above that have a uterus and really want to tell you what to do with yours. I guess that is okay with you? It’s just men that can’t tell you?

No, not at all. I was coming back to edit the post to say even if you do have a uterus, you still don't get to tell me what to do with mine.

 

[Searc]

That’s good in principle, but, I don’t have one any more (due to cancer) and the governor (or whatever her title is) of Alabama is female and she’s the one who signed it into law.

No, not at all. I was coming back to edit the post to say even if you do have a uterus, you still don't get to tell me what to do with mine.

 

[cinnaminny]

I know women in marriages like you describe well. I live in a world where the ultimate “redneck” is king. And while I wouldn’t live with someone like that for 10 seconds, I know women who do.

But be realistic. How on earth would a woman in that situation have the surgery anyway? She can’t hide it. She can’t just go to the dr one day and be home that afternoon and have this done.

Again we are talking about extremes. Yes they exist. But for a woman in that situation, having a surgery he doesn’t want her to have is going to take a lot more than his signature.

And for every story of women like that, there are men who have no voice for their own child. She wants an abortion, he gets no voice. She wants to keep the baby, again no voice. Oh but now pay up and step up because you helped make it. He marries a manipulative narcissist and he gets controlled by the children that he had no voice in making or he gets no voice in whether they have children. That’s not equality either.

There will never be an equal say when it comes to this. There can't be a 50/50, someone will always have to win, and it should always be the person who is putting their actual life on the line. FTR I have known plenty of guys that if they had their say, they would have forced an abortion. Men and women both have different choices, a mans choice of what they do with their body is different. There is no way to split the difference.

And yes a woman can go to the dr and have this done and come home that afternoon.