Anyone feel like they're not "keeping up with the Jonses"?

[NYCgrrl]

And my dad was working class. Wages went up fast back then along with benefits. Times were different.

One of friends does the same job my dad did in the 80s and only makes $10k more than he did. Blows my mind.

Back then in my region you could buy a fully appointed Park Avenue cooperative (doorman, maid's quarters, the whole 9 yards) for that kind of money.

Working class has become a term you don't hear much anymore and I thank you for the remembrance. Now it's the poor, middle class, and 1%.
In the early 70's my stepdad warned that the working class was becoming obsolete and joined the majority of adults of my life in encouraging me to go to college. So glad I listened. Now I encourage my DGD to get at least a master's degree; times change.

As for retirement...guess I've been thinking and planning for it for most of my working life. Always saved at least 10%; loved matching funds for my 401 K over a set pension (the man's dad had a pension that was wiped out by his company's bankruptcy. A real eye opener and deterrent to the economic growth and well-being of at least 3 generations of his family) then switched over to a Roth when I became self employed. Saving for older age was a higher priority than any vacation most of the time.

I understand those who worry about the usefulness of their Social Security but don't get wanting to gamble with the future of my or my children's well being by doing nothing and hoping to die early(huh?!).
I've friends (1) and acquaintances (several) who were convinced their kids would take care of them later in life and now that it's not happening in the manner expected, whine which I hear/don't hear.

 

[RogueX]

As kids, my husband and I were both from families that were broker than broke. His parents managed their money a smidge more responsibly and they survived with food in their bellies and a roof over their heads until his father got a better paying job.

My parents....eh, I like to say that they didn't grow up until they were in their 40's. But that meant I was an adult by then. We only had anything (food, clothes and shelter) because of my paternal grandparents.

Fast forward, my husband and I have worked very carefully to have a small house, we've built up savings and retirement funds at our jobs. We choose carefully when to splurge on something.

Importantly though, we've come to recognize the value of balancing living for today, but needing for tomorrow.

 

[NFLDERS]

No, but it was perhaps easy for me because I'm a minimalist at heart. Early on in our marriage I found a cup that read: We caught up to the Joneses then, they refinanced.

This cup's message was possibly intended for me.

We celebrate 50 years in 2021.

 

[mnrose]

I think over saving is a way way way less common problem than under saving. Saving for retirement IS important. I think going on vacations when your 401Ks are underfunded is "keeping up with the Joneses" not the other way around. If you do the math, a person in their 40's should be WELL on their way to a funded 401K. You can't start in your 50's and hope to have nearly enough. Just saying. I've never "saved" to keep up with anyone...other than my own personal idea of what a comfortable (and long) retirement looks like. Sure, I could be hit by a bus tomorrow, in which case, my husband is going to have a slamming time the next 25-30 years. LOL. But, I'd rather have extra when I die than find out I don't have enough to LIVE the lives I've been granted.

 

[Tattylou]

In my dad’s case, he didn’t have a spouse & my sister & I are financially independent & were in our late 30s. He was very frugal & denied himself many things “just in case”. When he was dying, he talked about some of the things he never got to do not about how much was in his bank account. That didn’t matter. There is a balance for sure, but we think it’s also important to live life to the fullest.

I agree! I want to live my life. I do not have an extravagant lifestyle, but I want to go on vacation and do fun things and spend some money while we are all healthy!
As for responsible balance...
We have life insurance and disability insurance. I have a 401k. My husband has a small pension and another retirement fund. I'm sure we don't have near enough in those accounts. As far as college savings for the kids...ummm, I'm still paying my own student loans from grad school! I do have a SEP IRA that can be used for college if necessary. We do have a financial advisor....and he knows how I feel.
I'm still going to spend way too much on getting my hair done and meeting friends for drinks and fun vacations away with my family while my kids are little and my parents are still alive bc I need to enjoy my money too.

 

[OKW8297]

Don’t know your age, but my dad was like that & then suddenly got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer at age 62 & died w/in 3 weeks of the diagnosis. So, I’m still very much of the mindset of tomorrow is not guaranteed. The money in the bank didn’t do him any good. My sister & I got the $, but we would much rather have had our dad.

I’m with you. My sister passed suddenly at age 59 from a heart attack. She was a bit older than I but I am determined to live now. I know we don’t have enough for retirement, and I will have to work at least part time for a very long time, but we are going to downsize and travel now . Tomorrow is not guaranteed. I refuse to obsess about saving for tomorrow at the expense of today.

 

[indimom]

We have always saved for retirement, but not as aggressively as we should have when we were young due to a lower income, and lack of experience/knowledge regarding retirement savings. We have been playing catchup in our late 30s and 40s. And, now that the kids are independent, we are focusing even more on savings. Life has shown me over the past 20 years, that savings are crucial.

I learned from those early years when funds were low... that you don't have to have frequent/expensive vacations, pricey toys, or costly "experiences" to make memories or to "live" life. We may not have traveled overseas or stayed in 5 star resorts, but we enjoyed everything we did together: weekly trips to the library, park or pool; playing board games; camping trips; hiking and biking; ice skating on the pond at the grandparents. We took vacations about every 3-4 years when the kids were young, every 2 years when they were older and we were more financially secure. All great memories, without risking our financial security. You don't have to spend frivolously to spend quality time.

Savings is WAY more important than experiences or things. Hands down. I'm not worried about dying young, I'm worried about becoming a burden on my loved ones. If I become disabled in some major way tomorrow, I don't want my husband and children to suffer or struggle to manage.

 

[mnrose]

We have always saved for retirement, but not as aggressively as we should have when we were young due to a lower income, and lack of experience/knowledge regarding retirement savings. We have been playing catchup in our late 30s and 40s. And, now that the kids are independent, we are focusing even more on savings. Life has shown me over the past 20 years, that savings are crucial.

I learned from those early years when funds were low... that you don't have to have frequent/expensive vacations, pricey toys, or costly "experiences" to make memories or to "live" life. We may not have traveled overseas or stayed in 5 star resorts, but we enjoyed everything we did together: weekly trips to the library, park or pool; playing board games; camping trips; hiking and biking; ice skating on the pond at the grandparents. We took vacations about every 3-4 years when the kids were young, every 2 years when they were older and we were more financially secure. All great memories, without risking our financial security. You don't have to spend frivolously to spend quality time.

Savings is WAY more important than experiences or things. Hands down. I'm not worried about dying young, I'm worried about becoming a burden on my loved ones. If I become disabled in some major way tomorrow, I don't want my husband and children to suffer or struggle to manage.

Exactly. There's a fine balance between "living life" and "preparing for the future." You can do both, as your post shows. The number of people unprepared for retirement is shocking, and is the next big tidal wave of economic news that will overtake this country. Watch for it. When they talk about average savings of people my age, what they are really saying is that there are relatively small number of people with literally millions in their retirement account, and a much, much larger group of people with nothing or next to nothing. It's scary and depressing. Because you sure as heck can't make it work on Social Security alone, and "working" when you get to older ages isn't easy at all.

 

[RamblingMad]

Exactly. There's a fine balance between "living life" and "preparing for the future." You can do both, as your post shows. The number of people unprepared for retirement is shocking, and is the next big tidal wave of economic news that will overtake this country. Watch for it. When they talk about average savings of people my age, what they are really saying is that there are relatively small number of people with literally millions in their retirement account, and a much, much larger group of people with nothing or next to nothing. It's scary and depressing. Because you sure as heck can't make it work on Social Security alone, and "working" when you get to older ages isn't easy at all.

This talk also drives folks into more risky investments as they try to catch up too.

 

[Christine]

Because you sure as heck can't make it work on Social Security alone, and "working" when you get to older ages isn't easy at all.

I think a lot of people who haven't saved think "well, I'll just work until I'm 70." And that may work for some. Actually, I've always said I'd probably work until my late 60s so that I can ensure I get enough years in my pension (I joined the government late in life) and that I would want the most from my social security. The last thing I want to do in retirement is scrimp and deny myself any pleasures. My parents, by choice, both worked until their late 60s/early 70s.

Well, I'm 56 now. I have a long commute and a very hectic job. Things on me are physically going downhill are, to a degree, making my work life a tad uncomfortable (I have severe dry eye, intermittent vertigo, and vision issues that are starting). I may not make it to the target retirement age I had. Fortunately for me, I didn't take that age as gospel and I've been saving a lot, so if have to go earlier, I can.

 

[lifesavacation]

We both max our 401ks and fully fund our traditional IRAs every year before any discretionary spending. In my family, I’ve watched several in retirement financially struggle because they didn’t plan and have refused to cut expenses and then need money from their kids to live. I’d never do that to my own kids.

My husband works for a railroad company. They are a horrible company to work for, but he’ll get a pension and a railroad retirement (he’s not eligible for SS) and I will also get .5 of a pension and .5 of a retirement if he can make it to 30 years. They just fired him at 25 years of service and he was recently hired back in another department. He’s disgruntled but willing to put up with it for another 5 years because it makes a huge difference for our retirement plans. The job loss has really shown us that no matter how much you plan, something unexpected can happen and change everything. And if the worst happens, I want to be able to take care of myself and not have my hand out to my family.

For me, this isn’t keeping up with the Joneses. It has nothing to do with them. It’s about not making the same mistakes as my family.

 

[Searc]

Exactly. There's a fine balance between "living life" and "preparing for the future." You can do both, as your post shows. The number of people unprepared for retirement is shocking, and is the next big tidal wave of economic news that will overtake this country. Watch for it. When they talk about average savings of people my age, what they are really saying is that there are relatively small number of people with literally millions in their retirement account, and a much, much larger group of people with nothing or next to nothing. It's scary and depressing. Because you sure as heck can't make it work on Social Security alone, and "working" when you get to older ages isn't easy at all.

This thread is a microcosm of that, with some saying why save when they can spend today and enjoy themselves?

I went and checked our investment accounts just to reassure myself.

 

[usnuzuloose]

I have no desire to keep up with anyone

 

[LSUmiss]

This thread is a microcosm of that, with some saying why save when they can spend today and enjoy themselves?

I went and checked our investment accounts just to reassure myself.

Most that are saying that are saying why save so much that I am unable to enjoy life b/c I could die early & it won’t matter. My dad denied himself many many things to save for “retirement” & died before even getting there. And that just sucks to save your whole life & “prepare” for being comfortable for a future that you never even got to see. I do think there has to be a balance, but it makes me angry that he sacrificed like that for NOTHING. Also, there are many many (poor & working poor) ppl who can’t even dream about saving b/c they are barely scraping by now not b/c they’re living it up now but b/c they don’t have even basics now. They can’t worry about the future. Working for the rest of their lives is a very real possibility.

 

[Searc]

Most that are saying that are saying why save so much that I am unable to enjoy life b/c I could die early & it won’t matter. My dad denied himself many many things to save for “retirement” & died before even getting there. And that just sucks to save your whole life & “prepare” for being comfortable for a future that you never even got to see. I do think there has to be a balance, but it makes me angry that he sacrificed like that for NOTHING. Also, there are many many (poor & working poor) ppl who can’t even dream about saving b/c they are barely scraping by now not b/c they’re living it up now but b/c they don’t have even basics now. They can’t worry about the future. Working for the rest of their lives is a very real possibility.

I'm talking specifically about people on this thread who have said they aren't saving so they can spend now and enjoy life.

 

[disneychrista]

We both max our 401ks and fully fund our traditional IRAs every year before any discretionary spending.

I think it is great that some can "fully fund" their 401k & IRA. But I think for A LOT that is not possible . I know for me that would take over 50% of my annual income.

I fully expect to have to work after "retirement."

 

[RamblingMad]

Most that are saying that are saying why save so much that I am unable to enjoy life b/c I could die early & it won’t matter. My dad denied himself many many things to save for “retirement” & died before even getting there. And that just sucks to save your whole life & “prepare” for being comfortable for a future that you never even got to see. I do think there has to be a balance, but it makes me angry that he sacrificed like that for NOTHING. Also, there are many many (poor & working poor) ppl who can’t even dream about saving b/c they are barely scraping by now not b/c they’re living it up now but b/c they don’t have even basics now. They can’t worry about the future. Working for the rest of their lives is a very real possibility.

This is how US economics works out. It’s why folks living in Nordic countries are much happier. I know my friend in Norway doesn’t have to deal with this decision. But he does pay higher taxes than I do. Is the trade off worth it? I sometimes wonder.

 

[LSUmiss]

This is how US economics work out. It’s why folks living in Nordic countries are much happier. I know my friend in Norway doesn’t have to deal with this decision. But he does pay higher taxes than I do. Is the trade off worth it? I sometimes wonder.

Yep! I agree. Only works out for a select few here.

 

[elaine amj]

It's going to be a balance - and a balance that you have to decide on for yourself.

We have always felt like we have more than enough - even where I was a SAHM with DH earning maybe $50k at a good job to support the 4 of us. We still had enough to spend a few thousands on vacation each year. And still save 20% and tithe 20%. We generally lived pretty simply though.

20 years later we saved enough for me to retire last year at 39. At the peak of our earnings (neither of us earned six figures either), we were saving over 50% of our income.

It's a simple life, mind you. But I just spent two weeks at WDW, bought annual passes, and will return to WDW at least 3-4 more times this year for 1-2 weeks each time. So still very indulgent and luxurious IMO. I estimate we will spend an extravagant $10k this year, including $5-6k on an indulgent free dining 2 week trip for 5 of us.

So obviously I am on the side of saving more for retirement. Mostly, I feel if I focus my spending only on the things I value deeply, I will have more choices. So we scrimped on all the things we didn't care so much about. I am a penny pincher who can make pennies scream. And frankly, proud of those skills. It has bought me freedom at a very young age.

There is still a possibility I may work again - preferably temp jobs or whatever. I don't mind doing it if there is something I want enough. Like last year I worked 6 days at a temp job that was an insane number of hours. I did it because DH said he wanted to eat out more on our Christmas Disney trip. So I put in the work, earned the money, and added one night of the overindulgent DXDDP for the 5 of us. It was fun and made DH happy Too much food though lol (although DH feels it was just right).

 

[tzolkin]

I think it is great that some can "fully fund" their 401k & IRA. But I think for A LOT that is possible . I know for me that would take over 50% of my annual income.

We recently started maxing out the contribution limits, and, yes, it's over 50% of our income. We fortunately do not have any debt and have been able to make some changes (downsized to a much smaller home, etc) to be able to do this.